57020 réponses à ce sujet

[beckaliz]

ademska wrote...

i imagine she rather meant that two ways: one, they inform hawke of the issue from a standpoint other than that of fereldan flighty apostates. fenris and merrill have extremely different perspectives than hawke's family.  two, more importantly, they inform the PLAYER as hawke.  it's a narrative device.

Ah, well, yes, narrative device. And, I did enjoy being given a more intimate view of the Tevinter situation than in DA:O, second-hand though it was. But from a roleplay standard? I just can't imagine that Malcolm (gosh I love that name so hard. I will name my child Malcolm) wouldn't make sure his children were informed of how the Circle can be, especially if he escaped from the Kirkwall Circle.

Regarding Merrill's perspective, Ugh, I've said it before and I'll probably say it again... She's cute and sweet, and I love the actress who does her voice (Torchwood FTW~!!!!), but I cannot get around the tolerance of blood magic, and her complete faith that it is justified and not dangerous. I don't know specifically what I'd really do in Hawke's position, but I'd likely not take her anywhere, and I'd definitely try to keep tabs on her.


[[Edit for top...]]



Sauce= http://splintter.deviantart.com/]Fenris's animator[/url]

Modifié par beckaliz, 15 juin 2011 - 03:45 .

[ipgd]

beckaliz wrote...

I just can't imagine that Malcolm (gosh I love that name so hard. I will name my child Malcolm) wouldn't make sure his children were informed of how the Circle can be, especially if he escaped from the Kirkwall Circle.

Judging by the comparisons both Bethany and Carver make, Anders exists to give Hawke daddy issues.

Modifié par ipgd, 15 juin 2011 - 03:45 .

[Arquen]

If anything Anders is trying to build up Hawke as the "hero." He suggests it in dialogue, battle cries, and I think even his manifestos are more for Hawke than anyone.

He is seeking to make Hawke a believer in his cause because he feels Hawke is the "hero" the mages need. He is more adamant in this than the other companions in my eyes, but I still agree that each viewpoint is represented because the character is the influential person. The companions just seek to give a general picture of various viewpoints as CGG said.

[beckaliz]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Not moreso, no. Also, this is where we get that whole "player/character hur dur" thing going on. The player has no reason to have strong feelings about this, while the character does. I actually feel this separation was badly done. I think that we should have had a chance to play though more of the actual, everyday, 'my life has sucked because of this' oppression. As is, all we see is Beth getting taken away, if that, and even that isn't played up as harshly as it could be. Then again, this was part of Bioware's effort to make the Templars seem more reasonable. If players actually had the perspective on a life of oppression and fear that they should naturally have had, far fewer would turn to the Templar cause. (Unless you RP Hawke as having resented both his father and sister his whole life.)

That's certainly true. My Hawke siding with the Templars is supportive of the plight of mages, but through the course of the 10 years he grows to really not like the Kirkwall mages specifically. He doesn't resent his family; in fact he is very devoted to them, and having his sister taken away from him simply because he wanted to protect her and not take her into the Deep Roads, that was a blow. In his perspective, the fact that she can find contentment in there is a point in the Templars' favor. That so many other mages absolutely cannot stand it... sometimes he is confused about the juxtaposition. Mages escaping and fleeing the city in Anders's underground is just fine with him, though, being that they probably aren't turning to blood magic and becoming violent. They just want to get away.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Arquen wrote...
As far as Anders, I agree with CGG in that he was just a "firework." What he did is drastic, but the aftermath is the most important part of what he does and it isn't even shown really (yet).

I didn't originally say he was a firework, but I'm totally changing it now so that he is. Partially because reading this post made me think of this song, and realize how VERY ANDERS it is. Now I have... an entirely different perspective on one of the most overplayed songs on the radio. It's all about revolution!

The first verse pretty tellingly represents what Anders has been going through his entire life, and captures his feelings of hopelessness. It even specifically refers to his solitary confinement and resulting claustrophobia!

Do you ever feel like a plastic bag
Drifting through the wind
Wanting to start again?
Do you ever feel so paper thin
Like a house of cards
One blow from caving in?

Do you ever feel already buried deep
Six feet under screams
But no one seems to hear a thing
Do you know that there's still a chance for you
'Cause there's a spark in you

Then the first bridge is literally describes the Chantry bombing.

You just gotta ignite the light
And let it shine
Just own the night
Like the fourth of July

And then this verse is about how all the crap in his life lead him to meeting Hawke, and literally describes him turning into Vengeance in order to accomplish this. Also, it explains what I've always said - the Chantry bombing is all about seeing that its the perfect time for some kind of a change, and grasping that moment.

Maybe a reason why all the doors are closed
So you could open one that leads you to the perfect road
Like a lightning bolt, your heart will glow
And when it's time, you'll know

And finally, the encouragement from Justice and/or Supportive!Hawke to know that all of this is fundamentally the natural result of all the awesome potential Anders has had the entire time.

Baby you're a firework
Come on let your colors burst
Make 'em go "oh, oh, oh!"
You're gonna leave 'em all in awe-awe-awe

Boom, boom, boom
Even brighter than the moon, moon, moon
And it's always been inside of you you you
And now it's time to let it through

Ugh, my kingdom for video editing skills and an exhaustive library of Dragon Age footage. Hehe. I may have to get Fraps and fraps my next Awakenings/DA2 playthrough... to see if I can pull this off.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 15 juin 2011 - 03:58 .

[beckaliz]

ipgd wrote...

beckaliz wrote...

I just can't imagine that Malcolm (gosh I love that name so hard. I will name my child Malcolm) wouldn't make sure his children were informed of how the Circle can be, especially if he escaped from the Kirkwall Circle.

Judging by the comparisons both Bethany and Carver make, Anders exists to give Hawke daddy issues.

Hahaha, I can totally believe that. And if Hawke genuinely loves his family, it seems reasonable that he'd befriend Anders. On the opposite side, if Hawke resented his apostate father and sister, he wouldn't like Anders at all, if Anders was that much like their father.

I guess I kind of forgot the comparison that Bethany makes at the beginning... That definitely could make for some daddy issues on Hawke's part. Moreso with m!Hawke romance. D: Now that's kind of a disturbing concept.

Arquen wrote...

If anything Anders is trying to build up Hawke as the "hero." He suggests it in dialogue, battle cries, and I think even his manifestos are more for Hawke than anyone.

He is seeking to make Hawke a believer in his cause because he feels Hawke is the "hero" the mages need. He is more adamant in this than the other companions in my eyes, but I still agree that each viewpoint is represented because the character is the influential person. The companions just seek to give a general picture of various viewpoints as CGG said.

He can see Hawke as a hero, but also as someone who is a lot more stable than Anders himself, considering how straight from the beginning he really doesn't fully trust himself or his judgment of the world.

[Frishmet]

What I'm interested in knowing now is what exactly is Cassandra's plan. Are they trying to restore the old system? Or are they more interested in making peace even if that means negotiating with the mages? Or is it something else entirely? At the end she asks Leliana if they should go with the original plan or keep searching.. so what is that plan? hmmmmm

And umm how about that Anders. I hear he has nice hindquarters..not that I'm staring or anything.

[ipgd]

beckaliz wrote...

Hahaha, I can totally believe that. And if Hawke genuinely loves his family, it seems reasonable that he'd befriend Anders. On the opposite side, if Hawke resented his apostate father and sister, he wouldn't like Anders at all, if Anders was that much like their father.

I guess I kind of forgot the comparison that Bethany makes at the beginning... That definitely could make for some daddy issues on Hawke's part. Moreso with m!Hawke romance. D: Now that's kind of a disturbing concept.

IT'S NOT LIKE CREEPY REPLACEMENT DADDY ISSUES ARE PART OF MY CANON OR ANYTHING (they are)

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

[snip]

You are analyzing Katy Perry songs and I am okay with this.

Frishmet wrote...

What I'm interested in knowing now is what exactly is Cassandra's plan. Are they trying to restore the old system? Or are they more interested in making peace even if that means negotiating with the mages? Or is it something else entirely? At the end she asks Leliana if they should go with the original plan or keep searching.. so what is that plan? hmmmmm

And umm how about that Anders. I hear he has nice hindquarters..not that I'm staring or anything.

I got the impression she was mainly looking for some kind of peace solution, with the "mages will listen to him" bit. Hopefully with the Chantry coming out on top, obviously.

Modifié par ipgd, 15 juin 2011 - 04:07 .

[Arquen]

CGG that song always reminded me a little of Anders. I honestly HATE that song now, overplayed as it is. The lyrics do ring true though, LOL. I'm -- glad? -- I could change that for you. At least now the song has new meaning.

Now we just need some dancing Anders to solidify the deal... now where are those gifs/pics. LMAO

[beckaliz]

Frishmet wrote...

What I'm interested in knowing now is what exactly is Cassandra's plan. Are they trying to restore the old system? Or are they more interested in making peace even if that means negotiating with the mages? Or is it something else entirely? At the end she asks Leliana if they should go with the original plan or keep searching.. so what is that plan? hmmmmm

And umm how about that Anders. I hear he has nice hindquarters..not that I'm staring or anything.

My guess is that Cassandra's aim isn't to restore things the way they were, but to try and calm things down enough that there isn't a massive war that will devastate Thedas. And perhaps also to make sure that it doesn't completely undermine the Chantry. I don't think that the Chantry wants to control the world, though. Then again, I'm coming from a perspective of not having played through all the Origins in DA:O, so I'll admit that my grasp of the Chantry's standing in general is not completely solid. (Or perhaps it's just because I'm not fanatical about reading the codices.) But, they WERE getting to the point where they were almost going to completely obliterate Kirkwall from the face of the earth, Templars and all most likely.

Actually, in some ways, if Hawke sides with the Templars, some of the motivation could be to try and prevent that, and he/she knows the only way to do it would be to eliminate that which is a bigger internal threat. IE: more and more mages turning rogue, turning to blood magic, and committing atrocities in the name of freedom.

Oh I'm sure Anders has a nice butt, running around with Hawke and also running back and forth through those secret tunnels. XD The entrance to which seems rather large and un-secret from where Ser Alric has the poor mage girl cornered... 

[beckaliz]

Makes me very glad that I absolutely do not listen to the radio.

My iPod with its thousands of songs does me just fine. XD

[LT123]

Frishmet wrote...

What I'm interested in knowing now is what exactly is Cassandra's plan. Are they trying to restore the old system? Or are they more interested in making peace even if that means negotiating with the mages? Or is it something else entirely? At the end she asks Leliana if they should go with the original plan or keep searching.. so what is that plan? hmmmmm

And umm how about that Anders. I hear he has nice hindquarters..not that I'm staring or anything.

Whee, flashback to Origins! I miss Alistair.

Uh, carry on. Have an Anders. I spend too much time taking screenshots. I'm curious about Cassandra and Leliana's plans too.

[ademska]

beckaliz wrote...


My guess is that Cassandra's aim isn't to restore things the way they were, but to try and calm things down enough that there isn't a massive war that will devastate Thedas. And perhaps also to make sure that it doesn't completely undermine the Chantry. I don't think that the Chantry wants to control the world, though. Then again, I'm coming from a perspective of not having played through all the Origins in DA:O, so I'll admit that my grasp of the Chantry's standing in general is not completely solid. (Or perhaps it's just because I'm not fanatical about reading the codices.) But, they WERE getting to the point where they were almost going to completely obliterate Kirkwall from the face of the earth, Templars and all most likely.

my understanding of the chantry is quite the opposite.  remember, you're talking about an institute that obliterated the elves as a race and seriously considered razing an entire city for the crime of potentially not following its stance on magic.

moreover, the orlais divine views the sole thedas nation (tevinter) that does not fall under its purview as heretical and worthy of war.

the chantry is not a benign set of buildings full of little old ladies

eta: the existence of the exalted march itself is point proof of their domineering intent.  they march what is largely viewed as an unstoppable force on targets of their choosing, targets that do not comply with some aspect of their rule.

it's somewhat analagous to the Church around low rennaissance; there are sovereign states, yeah, but they still fall under Church influence and order

Modifié par ademska, 15 juin 2011 - 04:21 .

[beckaliz]

[quote]LT123 wrote...

[quote]Frishmet wrote...

Uh, carry on. Have an Anders. I spend too much time taking screenshots. I'm curious about Cassandra and Leliana's plans too.





[/quote]

That's a great expression.  Sometimes I wish I could play the game on PC, but I like using the xbox controller too much.

[ipgd]

ademska wrote...

my understanding of the chantry is quite the opposite.  remember, you're talking about an institute that obliterated the elves as a race and seriously considered razing an entire city for the crime of potentially not following its stance on magic.

I don't think Cassandra does, though. With as little love as I have for the Chantry, she does seem to be concerned with more than its pure dominion.

[beckaliz]

ademska wrote...

my understanding of the chantry is quite the opposite.  remember, you're talking about an institute that obliterated the elves as a race and seriously considered razing an entire city for the crime of potentially not following its stance on magic.

moreover, the orlais divine views the sole thedas nation (tevinter) that does not fall under its purview as heretical and worthy of war.

the chantry is not a benign set of buildings full of little old ladies

eta: the existence of the exalted march itself is point proof of their domineering intent.  they march what is largely viewed as an unstoppable force on targets of their choosing, targets that do not comply with some aspect of their rule.

it's somewhat analagous to the Church around low rennaissance; there are sovereign states, yeah, but they still fall under Church influence and order

I stand quite corrected!

I really need to go through DA:O again and pay more attention to those darned codices. When I went through it I was filling up my little free time after work when away from home in OK... working 60 hours a week... Wasn't really in the mood to go through all that. ^^; I just wanted to fight and I was all like OMG STORY WHAT HAPPENS NEXT!!

In hindsight I wish I'd played Awakenings before DA2, considering the Anders situation. I would have had a different perspective. Granted, I didn't feel like spending the $100 to upgrade to the 250GB hard drive for my xbox, which I would have had to do to download the large DLC which is Awakenings...

Modifié par beckaliz, 15 juin 2011 - 04:34 .

[ademska]

@ipgd: no ia, from what little we know of cassandra she seems like good people -- for a chantryman, anyway. but seekers seem like special people, so i guess bets are off with them. i was more referring to the chantry as an institution

@beckaliz: lol i understand completely. my first playthrough is easily my least favorite because i didn't bother to rp (metagamed a lot) or really immerse myself. it doesn't help that dao's codices are... sometimes dreadfully boring, much moreso than da2's, and the menu system for dao is atrocious

it is worth a real look though, bioware does such amazing world-building

[Ryzaki]

Yeah...I really should start reading the codexes more.

[ipgd]

I haven't collected and read every codex in both games or anything I'm not a loser cough

[beckaliz]

@ademska: Oh, they absolutely do! As clearly evidenced by the fact that these forums go on and on with the same people discussing all kinds of different things.

[ademska]

lol, i spent my first playthrough of da2 imagining manly bearded garrett hawke popping out little reading specs to see what the llomerryn accords were really all about

[Arquen]

Is it a shame I only read codex entries that actually interest me? I haven't read half of them and usually don't go back and read them unless they have some relevance.

Funny thing is I am obsessive about picking them all up and finding them. My characters have an OCD for loot/treasure/bits of paper/books, but not reading all that material. All those love letters from DA:O, lol.. I was all "another love letter.. crap." *tosses it in pile*

I don't doubt there is a ton of information in them, but I only really read the ones others bring up as interesting or that look interesting to me. DA2 however, I read way more codex entries than in DA:O. I much rather prefer how they are set up in DA2.

plus, LOL at thought of Hawke and the Warden pausing to read. "HOLD up guys I just found this epic scrap of paper! I must read what is on it!" *busts out spectacles and starts reading*

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Arquen wrote...

Is it a shame I only read codex entries that actually interest me? I haven't read half of them and usually don't go back and read them unless they have some relevance.

Funny thing is I am obsessive about picking them all up and finding them. My characters have an OCD for loot/treasure/bits of paper/books, but not reading all that material. All those love letters from DA:O, lol.. I was all "another love letter.. crap." *tosses it in pile*

I don't doubt there is a ton of information in them, but I only really read the ones others bring up as interesting or that look interesting to me. DA2 however, I read way more codex entries than in DA:O. I much rather prefer how they are set up in DA2.

plus, LOL at thought of Hawke and the Warden pausing to read. "HOLD up guys I just found this epic scrap of paper! I must read what is on it!" *busts out spectacles and starts reading*

There needs to be a podcast that is just the codex entries being read aloud, possibly by devs, with brief commentary after, if necessary. That way I can get through them all when I'm cleaning my room or something.

[Arquen]

OMG "teatime codex entries with ____" <-- fill in favorite voice actor *coughGideonEmerycough*

It would be epic. Fantastic idea someone needs to pick this up immediately.

A fantastic way to get people to actually learn/read more about the little snippets in them.

[Frishmet]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Arquen wrote...

Is it a shame I only read codex entries that actually interest me? I haven't read half of them and usually don't go back and read them unless they have some relevance.

Funny thing is I am obsessive about picking them all up and finding them. My characters have an OCD for loot/treasure/bits of paper/books, but not reading all that material. All those love letters from DA:O, lol.. I was all "another love letter.. crap." *tosses it in pile*

I don't doubt there is a ton of information in them, but I only really read the ones others bring up as interesting or that look interesting to me. DA2 however, I read way more codex entries than in DA:O. I much rather prefer how they are set up in DA2.

plus, LOL at thought of Hawke and the Warden pausing to read. "HOLD up guys I just found this epic scrap of paper! I must read what is on it!" *busts out spectacles and starts reading*

There needs to be a podcast that is just the codex entries being read aloud, possibly by devs, with brief commentary after, if necessary. That way I can get through them all when I'm cleaning my room or something.

I'm nodding at the computer screen like a fool!