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[BlueMew]

highcastle wrote...

BlueMew wrote...

Uh... what? Leliana prefers an Exalted March (ew) to mage freedom? I didn't catch *that*

It comes out during Seb's Act 3 personal quest. She also leaked word of her arrival to militant mage groups to see if they'd take the bait. They did, she curbstomped them, and then wants to use that as justification for the Exalted March. Um...right.

Honestly, though, I wasn't a big fan of Leliana back in DAO. She came across preachy even then. Although at least her particular brand of religious fervor seemed to be slightly more independently minded. She was looked down upon by the Lothering chantry for some of her beliefs, anyway. Perhaps the Divine agreed with her (or told her she did, anyway)? Either way, it looks like Leliana's found that balance between being a spy and being a sister that she always wanted.

I still don't like her.

Oh, that would be it then. I dislike Sebastian with a passion, so I didn't download the bastard. But now I *am* kind of curious. It is clear then that Leliana is working as a spy for the Seekers? Baiting mages into attacking her and then using it as an excuse for Exalted Smiting sounds... well, like enough of a reason to start hating her, I suppose.

Also, for some reason I keep reading the new title as 'a haven from carp.'
Weird.

Edit: huh? Top? OK, it's still too cute to beat:

Modifié par BlueMew, 15 juin 2011 - 12:05 .

[ReiSilver]

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...

highcastle wrote...


This is just my own little tinfoil hat theory, but I think the reason why the mages were cut down so easily in the final battle was because they were children. And Varric (i.e. the devs) didn't want to dwell on that part. Absolutely no evidence to back it up, except for the fact that we don't really see any kids in the Gallows and we know they're there.

It would make sense. The untested apprentices are most numerous denizens of any tower, according to a codex entry, and they are very young. Like, teenagers and younger. But it makes the whole ordeal all the more horrifying and I don't really think too hard about it lest my insides hurt even more.

I'd also hazard that the Gallows being the way they are in Kirkwall the mages there likely were not trained in combat the way that the fereldan circle were. The fear of mages and their proximity to the city could contribute to the idea that it would be a bad move to teach them to throw fireballs and crushing prisons around, similar to the notes you can find in the Tower in fereldan about how the idea to teach mages mundane combat skills was tossed out.

Which now that I think about it could contribute to the blood mage/abonination problem as that would be the only way a mage who wanted to learn to defend themselves could go about it since they weren't being taught in the more accepted sense.

[tuffet37]

Based on Ander's first quest, we know that the templars screen correspondence, so I always felt that Bethany could never say too much for fear of the letter never getting to Hawke. I love this thread, mostly lurk but this morning decided to add my 2 coppers.

[ashyraine]

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...

ElleMullineux wrote...



As for the rest, it's just a comment to the world at large, not you directly.  I've been seeing a lot of feedback that wants to paint the templars as big evil boogie men and women, which isn't the case. For the most part they are trying to do the jobs they were raised to do, and believe in what they are doing. I just disagree with them

Not to mention that they are all forced into drug addiction. A drug that can cause some severe withdrawal effects if they try to quit and serious mental deterioration if they continue to take it. God, Carver, the Order is no place for a little brother. Why would you join it willingly?

Because he's a stubborn ass, but I love him so Though I've yet to see Templar!Carver. I've always made him a GW because he looks snazzy in the armor in Varric's exaggerated intro

[kromify]

ElleMullineux wrote...

As for the rest, it's just a comment to the world at large, not you directly.  I've been seeing a lot of feedback that wants to paint the templars as big evil boogie men and women, which isn't the case. For the most part they are trying to do the jobs they were raised to do, and believe in what they are doing. I just disagree with them

if only they did their jobs with a bit more compassion...

[ladyofpayne]

Anders need to be written by Gaider. Jennyfer made him to soft an sugarized, especially with women.

[highcastle]

ladyofpayne wrote...

Anders need to be written by Gaider. Jennyfer made him to soft an sugarized, especially with women.

I have to disagree with you on that one. First, I'd never call him soft or sugary ("I'd drown us both in blood," anyone?). Second, there's a reason for him to be a bit more emotional. We know in DAA that Justice was capable of sorting through Kristof's memories. He remembers Aura and their relationship, for instance. It makes sense that he'd spend some of his time sifting through Anders' memories.

Now, we don't know how much of this Anders is aware of. Since he feels Justice's thoughts as his own, though, it's likely he had to relive each of those horrors again and again while Justice puzzled things out. There's a reason his defenses (i.e. humor) aren't quite as sharp. He's being broken down.

Personally, while I like funny, witty characters, I like them even more when they're revealed to have genuine darkness inside. We get to see Anders' facade deteriorate from DAA to DA2, and I love every moment of it. I prefer rounded characters with a strong personal journey, and you have to admit that Anders grows (in the literary sense, which basically means he changes and evolves) over the course of those two games. I can see the seeds of that growth in DAA, so he never feels out of character to me. He's just a man who's used to hiding behind humor, only now he's not hiding anything anymore.

[beckaliz]

 This time around I actually gave Correm Hawke, warrior, the Templar specialization. I considered the fact of the lyrium addiction buuuut... since the devs ignore that, so can I.  I like the Silence ability. It fits in with roleplay with him, too, since he grows to distrust the Kirkwall mages specifically. And Mages don't have a monopoly on damage by thinking about it. There's Spirit Blast, or whatever it's called. Templar goes GRRRR!! and a burst of spirit damage around him. ((Edit: They spend so much time wandering around the underbelly of Kirkwall and all over the place, I think that Hawke would definitely know where to acquire lyrium to suit his needs.))

As far as children/apprentices goes... I hadn't considered that. It makes me feel horrible now that only 1 out of the 4 PT's I have (either started or partial) will end up siding with the mages. D: It makes complete sense. On the other hand, with the mage underground, wouldn't you think that the mages themselves would want to get the most vulnerable of their number out of there? I'm sure Anders, especially, would want to do his best to spare those young ones from having to spend their whole lives in the Circle. Also, it is worth considering that they perhaps left behind competent mages who would have greater ability to help the weaker ones leave, and also who would be capable of fighting when the time came.

Modifié par beckaliz, 15 juin 2011 - 01:26 .

[beckaliz]

It's always harder to get a good perspective on the kind, compassionate people in any particular group when there are violent zealots in their number. There are definitely Templars who believe they're doing good, wanting to protect mages from themselves, from the outside world even, and protect the outside world from them. I think Cullen has this perspective? He has a stronger belief that mages are dangerous and need to be watched closely, but I don't think he necessarily hates them, and I don't think he's unkind to them.

Modifié par beckaliz, 15 juin 2011 - 01:32 .

[Sialater]

highcastle wrote...

ladyofpayne wrote...

Anders need to be written by Gaider. Jennyfer made him to soft an sugarized, especially with women.

I have to disagree with you on that one. First, I'd never call him soft or sugary ("I'd drown us both in blood," anyone?). Second, there's a reason for him to be a bit more emotional. We know in DAA that Justice was capable of sorting through Kristof's memories. He remembers Aura and their relationship, for instance. It makes sense that he'd spend some of his time sifting through Anders' memories.

Now, we don't know how much of this Anders is aware of. Since he feels Justice's thoughts as his own, though, it's likely he had to relive each of those horrors again and again while Justice puzzled things out. There's a reason his defenses (i.e. humor) aren't quite as sharp. He's being broken down.

Personally, while I like funny, witty characters, I like them even more when they're revealed to have genuine darkness inside. We get to see Anders' facade deteriorate from DAA to DA2, and I love every moment of it. I prefer rounded characters with a strong personal journey, and you have to admit that Anders grows (in the literary sense, which basically means he changes and evolves) over the course of those two games. I can see the seeds of that growth in DAA, so he never feels out of character to me. He's just a man who's used to hiding behind humor, only now he's not hiding anything anymore.

~applause~

I'm a little sore this morning, or I'd stand up to clap... so that'll have to do.

[kromify]

ElleMullineux wrote...

kromify wrote...

ElleMullineux wrote...

As for the rest, it's just a comment to the world at large, not you directly.  I've been seeing a lot of feedback that wants to paint the templars as big evil boogie men and women, which isn't the case. For the most part they are trying to do the jobs they were raised to do, and believe in what they are doing. I just disagree with them

if only they did their jobs with a bit more compassion...

Oh bloody hell, how have I ended up on this side of the discussion?

it's always good to change sides in a debate. be your own devils advocate!

[Sialater]

kromify wrote...

ElleMullineux wrote...

kromify wrote...

ElleMullineux wrote...

As for the rest, it's just a comment to the world at large, not you directly.  I've been seeing a lot of feedback that wants to paint the templars as big evil boogie men and women, which isn't the case. For the most part they are trying to do the jobs they were raised to do, and believe in what they are doing. I just disagree with them

if only they did their jobs with a bit more compassion...

Oh bloody hell, how have I ended up on this side of the discussion?

it's always good to change sides in a debate. be your own devils advocate!

Would it help that I'm a Cullen fangirl, too?

[kromify]

but cullen has a sexy voice...

[Sialater]

Yes, yes he does.

And he doesn't ever arrest Anders....

[SurelyForth]

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...

kromify wrote...

but cullen has a sexy voice...

He does. REMINDS ME OF THIS GUY I LIKE.

Though. I wish he would crack some more jokes with it. Greg Ellis delivers comedy excellently and not taking advantage of that is surely a crime somewhere.

You're making me miss Ellis!Anders again! Oh, to hear him do the "a dwarf, an elf and a human walked into a bar" joke