57019 réponses à ce sujet

[maselphie]

Valentia X wrote...

Back to Vengeance being a reaction, Lust and Pride are sins that can be harboured without anyone really knowing; acting on them in a violent manner is another sin in and of itself. But Vengeance (IMHO, of course) is fairly pure and as I said, something that's easier to condone, at least by a lot of people's standards. Someone who goes after their father's murderer is often looked at better than someone who is inverterantly lazy or sleeps with people indiscriminantly. From what I can tell, anyways, and as all things, YMMV.

Oh, no, I don't think it was intentional either. I don't think Justice wanted to be corrupted, and I don't think Anders wanted to be, either. They're both damaged goods. It's unfortunate for the both of them. 

As for Vengeance being more pure ... ehhh ... I think you're just bargaining now because we have Anders fever. An example of Vengeance is the death penalty. Believe it or not, not everyone believes in the "eye for an eye" type of punishment. Because if death is wrong, why are you doing it, too? Vegence is described as "violent revenge." Not just revenge. Not just justice. It has to be VIOLENT. It has has to hurt. And what brings a person to physically hurt another? What is the difference between Justice and Vengeance? Why is hunting down your father's killer and then KILLING HIM different from hunting down your father's killer and turning him into authorities? One seems hypocritical, which is as bad as lust or pride or envy or whatever. It's ignoring the very flaw of itself.

But no, I can't see has vengence being more admirable than other of the other sins. I don't idolize violence in any way.

Modifié par maselphie, 12 mars 2011 - 05:53 .

[Lady Jess]

Mel_Redux wrote...

Am I the only one that thought Knight Commander Meredith looked like an old She-ra? Crazy super powered sword and all!

THATS IT! I knew she looked familiar!

[Raiil]

maselphie wrote...

Valentia X wrote...

Back to Vengeance being a reaction, Lust and Pride are sins that can be harboured without anyone really knowing; acting on them in a violent manner is another sin in and of itself. But Vengeance (IMHO, of course) is fairly pure and as I said, something that's easier to condone, at least by a lot of people's standards. Someone who goes after their father's murderer is often looked at better than someone who is inverterantly lazy or sleeps with people indiscriminantly. From what I can tell, anyways, and as all things, YMMV.

Oh, no, I don't think it was intentional either. I don't think Justice wanted to be corrupted, and I don't think Anders wanted to be, either. They're both damaged goods. It's unfortunate for the both of them. 

As for Vengeance being more pure ... ehhh ... I think you're just bargaining now because we have Anders fever. An example of Vengeance is the death penalty. Believe it or not, not everyone believes in the "eye for an eye" type of punishment. Because if death is wrong, why are you doing it, too? Vegence is described as "violent revenge." Not just revenge. Not just justice. It has to be VIOLENT. It has has to hurt. And what brings a person to physically hurt another? What is the difference between Justice and Vengeance? Why is hunting down your father's killer and then KILLING HIM different from hunting down your father's killer and turning him into authorities? One seems hypocritical, which is as bad as lust or pride or envy or whatever. It's ignoring the very flaw of itself.

But no, I can't see has vengence being more admirable than other of the other sins. I don't idolize violence in any way.

It's entirely possible, although IRL what Anders did would have horrified me. It's easier to write away in a digital sense.

And where we disagree might be philosophical, because I can tolerate vengeance; it's easier for me to deal with, but obviously we're of different minds on the subject. And that makes all the difference, I suspect.

[maselphie]

Ethics! Something the internet will never run out of.

Anders and kittens? Finite resource. Quick. Someone post a Ser Pounce-a-lot pic.

Modifié par maselphie, 12 mars 2011 - 05:59 .

[Raiil]

maselphie wrote...

Ethics! Something the internet will never run out of.

Anders and kittens? Finite resource. Quick. Someone post a Ser Pounce-a-lot pic.

Peace offering? 

[StellaSmooth]

Lady Jess wrote...

Mel_Redux wrote...

Am I the only one that thought Knight Commander Meredith looked like an old She-ra? Crazy super powered sword and all!

THATS IT! I knew she looked familiar!

Holy man, as soon as you mentioned this I went She-ra internet surfing. I used to have all of the She-ra crap when I was a kid. You ABSOLUTELY nailed that one!! lol. Now I won't be able to see her without thinking "For the honor of Greyskull!!"

[Anglerfish610]

Ludy03 wrote...

I'm very disappointed with this romance I expected much dialogue with him, and we have a few lines for the whole game. And unlike Origins we don't know the epilogues of our companions

I was personally hoping for more interactions with him around Hawke's estate after he moved in. It's a shame there was so little, but my imagination could fill in the blanks that the codex and item interactions left behind.

And in regards to the not knowing the epilogues of our companions, that's one of the short comings with the framed narrative they went with. It's Varric telling the story, and as awesome as Varric is, he is not omnipresent and all knowing. It'd be hard for him to find out exactly what happened to each and every one of them once they go their seperate ways.

Playing through the romance, I had Eminem's and Rihanna's "Love the Way You Lie, Part 2" stuck in my head. Granted, not a perfect match, seeing as the song is about a violent love/hate relationship, but some lines stuck out. Primarily Rihanna's "Even angels have their wicked schemes, and you take that to new extremes. But you'll always be my hero
even though you've lost your mind" and Eminem's "with you I'm in my f***ing mind, without you, I'm out it."

Overall, Anders' story is something that's going to stick with me for a long time. Something I attribute to Jennifer Hepler's skills as a writer. I look forward to whatever else she does in the future (which, looking at her account profile, says some DLC for DA2! Exciting!).

Edit: One more note: I'm extremely disappointed that there was no tabby cat gift for Anders. I demand this be rectified. Anders needs a kitten.

Modifié par Fish Fables, 12 mars 2011 - 06:05 .

[TripLight]

Oooh..working on a F!Rogue Hawke because I want to see the Fenris Romance...I think the only way I won't be able to romance Anders or kill him is if I pretend he and Bethany have a thing going. Pray for me, pray I don't succumb to those brown eyes again. First PT was a test run, my canon run is coming after the Rogue run.

Edited: A Cannon is not canon.

Modifié par TripLight, 12 mars 2011 - 06:33 .

[Lady Jess]

TripLight wrote...

Oooh..working on a F!Rogue Hawke because I want to see the Fenris Romance...I think the only way I won't be able to romance Anders or kill him is if I pretend he and Bethany have a thing going. Pray for me, pray I don't succumb to those brown eyes again. First PT was a test run, my canon run is coming after the Rogue run.

Edited: A Cannon is not canon.

You people are just determined to make me short circuit my keyboard with coffee so you can have Anders all to yourselves aren't you:?

[Raiil]

Hey guys, Anders's gift is found during Fenris's A Bitter Pill quest, right? Where is it located?

[TripLight]

Lady Jess wrote...

TripLight wrote...

Oooh..working on a F!Rogue Hawke because I want to see the Fenris Romance...I think the only way I won't be able to romance Anders or kill him is if I pretend he and Bethany have a thing going. Pray for me, pray I don't succumb to those brown eyes again. First PT was a test run, my canon run is coming after the Rogue run.

Edited: A Cannon is not canon.

You people are just determined to make me short circuit my keyboard with coffee so you can have Anders all to yourselves aren't you:?

We aim to please, and destroy innocent keyboards everywhere!

[VampOrchid]

Valentia X wrote...

Hey guys, Anders's gift is found during Fenris's A Bitter Pill quest, right? Where is it located?

I also would like to know this.


My only problem (ONLY) Problem with the romance, is I too wanted more time chit chating with Anders. Would have loved to consol him some how to show that he's not a monster. That seemed to be a big issue, granted, with him. And to help him somehow control the 'demon' within, would have been cool!

I'm hoping more then ever that they continue with our Hawkes story in the third game so that we can continue with Anders, and not make another 'new' char for us to play. I'm hoping all in all that the dragon age series doesn't end...

But back to Anders, I just found that there was little amount of time with him to help him through his issues, I just think if Hawke cares that much about him, you would see her trying a little more to help him some how.

[snarkycleric]

VampOrchid wrote...


But back to Anders, I just found that there was little amount of time with him to help him through his issues, I just think if Hawke cares that much about him, you would see her trying a little more to help him some how.

I'm just pretending that my Hawke stopped by talk to him every so often, and I just didn't get to see it. I can't really see her not talking to Anders for huge periods of time.

[karliahs]

Did anyone else notice how hardcore the foreshadowing is in DA2?

I didn't notice it until my second playthrough, but damn it's everywhere.
Anders pretty much all but openly tells you he's gonna do something drastic during his romance.

I just find it kinda funny in a weird way.

[SurelyForth]

TripLight wrote...

Oooh..working on a F!Rogue Hawke because I want to see the Fenris Romance...I think the only way I won't be able to romance Anders or kill him is if I pretend he and Bethany have a thing going. Pray for me, pray I don't succumb to those brown eyes again. First PT was a test run, my canon run is coming after the Rogue run.

Edited: A Cannon is not canon.

I thought that Bethany and Anders had a very nice little dynamic. I was sorely disappointed that he didn't flirt outrageously anymore, but he was interested in her training and she said he reminded her of Papa Hawke. It was sweet. 

Anyway, I officially ended the game and, even though I know that BW will screw it up somehow, I thought the ending was oddly sweet for Hawke/Anders. The beginning of Act 3 was very rough for me, for some reason. I think it was the Anders/Merrill cutscene that really set the tone for what he was going through and the codex just solidified how close he was to the edge. I felt that doing what he did and having Hawke stand beside him brought him through a crises and now he has a second wind and a clear purpose and a world that is no longer able to ignore his cause.

[MsKehoe]

I'm curious. Did anyone else romance Anders with an m!Hawke? I feel like the only one here. XD

[VampOrchid]

I just feel for the guy. Honestly, all he wants is to be free. I think that's why most of us fell for him in Awakenings, because his wants/needs were perrrty basic and humble.

If the religion in this world wasn't so crazy against mages, he probably wouldn't have gone so nuts. In Awakenings, I like that we got to see the 'harmless' side of him. So we know deep down, he's just a harmless guy who really only wants to help people, that's why he went towards the healing magics.

The fact of having Justice inside him, just makes him take these measures to the extream. He thinks he's doing good, but if he were to be the Anders from Awakenings, I don't think he would have went to these measures. I think he would have just kept running. When we first meet him in awakenings, he's really just a guy looking out for himself, trying to get away from the templars and the chantry. Justice intensifies his already growning hate for the chantry and I think that's what really pushes him over the edge.

I do miss his sly/snarky attitude, but he still has some of it there. It's just not that obvious.

What I would love to know is his exact experiences from the circle. Jowan had a girl he was trying to excape with. What was Anders 'real' reasons for wanting to leave that bad, that many times. Was he miss treated? He was put in confinement for a year, what went on?

He could have toasted those templars that had him in awakenings at any time, but it's only when the dark spawn arrived did he actually react, in a matter of speaking. So he really doesn't want to hurt anyone, even templars, but he will if attacked. That's why the 'out of character' ending is so great but at the same time, you can see it's because of his joining with Justice.

This is all IMO, but it's also things I would love to know!

[VampOrchid]

Anyway, I officially ended the game and, even though I know that BW will screw it up somehow, I thought the ending was oddly sweet for Hawke/Anders. The beginning of Act 3 was very rough for me, for some reason. I think it was the Anders/Merrill cutscene that really set the tone for what he was going through and the codex just solidified how close he was to the edge. I felt that doing what he did and having Hawke stand beside him brought him through a crises and now he has a second wind and a clear purpose and a world that is no longer able to ignore his cause.

I so agree! I just hope like you said, that it doesn't get screwed up in the 3rd one and we get to see what we can do about this! 

[Raiil]

What I would love to know is his exact experiences from the circle. Jowan had a girl he was trying to excape with. What was Anders 'real' reasons for wanting to leave that bad, that many times. Was he miss treated? He was put in confinement for a year, what went on?

I think Anders said he was taken later than a lot of other mages? He knew what freedom was, and being kept in a cage, even for his own 'safety', was galling. Plus he has a smart mouth. A templar with a grudge could pop him in for however long for his own reasons.

[maselphie]

Valentia X wrote...

maselphie wrote...

Ethics! Something the internet will never run out of.

Anders and kittens? Finite resource. Quick. Someone post a Ser Pounce-a-lot pic.

Peace offering? 

 Yes, ma'am.

Lady Moof wrote...

Did anyone else notice how hardcore the foreshadowing is in DA2? 

I didn't notice it until my second playthrough, but damn it's everywhere. 
Anders pretty much all but openly tells you he's gonna do something drastic during his romance. 

I just find it kinda funny in a weird way.

I totally agree. Now that I think about it, it was always there. I thought it was just melodramatic tortured self-loathing (girls luv them some broken men), but I totally movie-flashbacked to everything he said and let out a string of curses.

And that "a BALM for your troubles" made me go  when she said it, but now it's like UBER FORESHADOWING.

Modifié par maselphie, 12 mars 2011 - 07:59 .

[mellifera]

MsKehoe wrote...

I'm curious. Did anyone else romance Anders with an m!Hawke? I feel like the only one here. XD

I did!

[highcastle]

MsKehoe wrote...

I'm curious. Did anyone else romance Anders with an m!Hawke? I feel like the only one here. XD

I did too. And it was all kinds of hot.

And speaking of foreshadowing, I agree that it was all over the place in Acts 2 and 3. Especially 3. When Anders tried to foist his pillow off on Varric, I knew something was up. I really wish there were more dialogues with companions, though, because I really wanted to have a sit down with Anders at that point to figure out what was going through his head. God, this has to be one of the saddest romance arcs in the series.

[maselphie]

I actually felt betrayed. And not in a "haha! I've joined the bad guys!" kind of trope. He lied and used me, and there was no reason for me not to believe him. He used my hopes for him to be better as the stepping stone to terrorize. And then was prepared to die. Suicidal people are the scariest people on earth, and I was totally oblivious to it, but the hints were there. I thought he might have just done something drastic to the extent of accidentally killing someone as Justice, or that he would be captured and killed or something ... BUT THIS ... is so much more personal. So, so gray. I agree. One of the most heart breaking romances I've ever played, because while it's easy to love and worship the dead because you're perfect once you're dead ... Anders would have been the exception. He would have to die a villain, and by my hand, no less. That's what's so tragic.

Modifié par maselphie, 12 mars 2011 - 08:26 .

[leggywillow]

Souris wrote...

"You have a troubled soul, I hope you find a balm for it."

Or something along those lines. The balm is said very pointedly, and sounds similar to, well, "bomb". Do you guys think she knows, or knew, what he was up to?

I don't think she knew, or she would certainly try to remove the bomb from her church, if not for her sake then for the innocent people who hang out in the Chantry.

But now I have this mental image:

Elthina: I hope you find a.... balm for it
Anders: Oh ho, I see what you did there!  Balm, bomb... good one!
::They high-five::
Elthina: Seriously though, get that thing the hell out of here.

[maselphie]

leggywillow wrote...

Elthina: I hope you find a.... balm for it
Anders: Oh ho, I see what you did there!  Balm, bomb... good one!
::They high-five::
Elthina: Seriously though, get that thing the hell out of here.

LMAO. That made me laugh very hard. Have an internet.