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The Anders Thread: Flash Fic Contest! Details on Pg. 2274


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#45051
ademska

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Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...

kromify wrote...

don't be hasty! everyone knows dragon poo is flammable  :o


All the better! Oh, Anders, you crazy genius and your magical gunpowder recipe, let's haul ass back to Ferelden and get a military advantage over all the other countries and watch the pouty faces of the Qunari when they realize they're not special anymore.


oh my god how did this never occur to me

holy ****dicks, i guess i figured out how to write fic where they just go around destroying phylactery chambers and circle towers. or, well, you guys figured it out. :wub:

le scheme


whoops, topsies.  hmmm...

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oh anders, you rascal

Modifié par ademska, 15 juin 2011 - 11:25 .


#45052
Guest_Queen-Of-Stuff_*

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ademska wrote...



oh my god how did this never occur to me

holy ****dicks, i guess i figured out how to write fic where they just go around destroying phylactery chambers and circle towers. or, well, you guys figured it out. :wub:

le scheme


Dragon Age 3; Blowing S**t Up, Basically.

I approve so much.

And then we sip wine and cackle with Flemeth and adopt Orana as our daughter and give her a pet hamster because damn my lower lip wobble every time I as much as look at her.

#45053
pagerunner

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Dragon Age 3; Blowing S**t Up

I would play the hell out of that game, personally.

#45054
Patchwork

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Well that was weird, just finished my second run and despite killing Anders Verric said he stayed with me. In a creepy, I'll always be watching, spirit way? Which would totally fit Janders. Or was Verric putting words around my LadyHawke having spawned Anders' kid?

So...it turns out sex with Anders can turn a FreedomForAll!!! Hawke into pro-circle one. Alongside other reasons she felt so guilty about her part in blowing up the Chantry she sided with the templars to restore order to the city. only Donnic showed up for the final fight though :(

#45055
CulturalGeekGirl

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My vision of the future is this: Alistair sits glumly on the battlefield, faced with a potential war with Orlais, and possibly an exalted march. Suddenly he feels a hand on his shoulder.

He turns to see the Warden.

"Honey, I know I haven't been around for a few years, but I'm back. And I brought you a present."

Steps aside to reveal Zevran, Hawke, Anders, and a whole crapton of Ironbark magegunpowder cannons.

"I'm pretty sure we've got this." She smiles.

"Remind me why I wasn't allowed to marry you, again?"

"Because everyone except us is stupid, basically. Now... let's blow some s**t up!" 

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 15 juin 2011 - 11:44 .


#45056
ademska

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Ser Bard wrote...

Well that was weird, just finished my second run and despite killing Anders Verric said he stayed with me. In a creepy, I'll always be watching, spirit way? Which would totally fit Janders. Or was Verric putting words around my LadyHawke having spawned Anders' kid?


varric's bit is just a bug. don't read into it too much, bro.

#45057
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pagerunner wrote...

Dragon Age 3; Blowing S**t Up

I would play the hell out of that game, personally.


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Now, imagine it with more pink, more sparkles and more apostate snogging and everything would be GLORIOUS

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...


"Because everyone except us is stupid, basically." 


Truer words were never spoken.

Modifié par Queen-Of-Stuff, 15 juin 2011 - 11:49 .


#45058
DreamerM

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YamiSnuffles wrote...

That really was some explosion. I'd have to imagine Anders' explosive recipe is even more potent than what the Qunari have.


This is precisely why when that particular scene plays out in my head!canon, Anders didn't use explosives. Or any magic, technically.

Here's how it goes in my head: he leaves his staff by the door, walks into the Chantry, stands in the middle of the room, taking one last long look around at the huge statues and rich hangings and ancient stonework, the citizens in the pews, the sisters going about their business, the Grand Cleric offering some prayer at the alter. Then he closes his eyes and takes a very deep breath.

Outside Orsino and Meredith are yelling at each-other. Again. Hawke and Co. arrive.

A sister notices Anders just...standing there, and walks over, "Can I help y---" he opens his eyes and glances at her, glowing. She goes flying back against the wall (and splatters.) The whole chantry starts to shake.

Outside, everyone abruptly stops yelling and looks at the rumbling Chantry, just in time to see the thing EXPLODE, stone turned to sand, bodies liquify in the force and limbs and glass goes everywhere. Everyone hits the dirt.

When they look up Anders, unscathed and still glowing, is walking down what used to be the steps to the chantry. The glow fades as he reaches the bottom and picks up his staff again. And everyone can tell what happened.


(yes I think about this stuff too much)

#45059
ademska

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DreamerM wrote...

incredibly violent cutscene that i'm glad wasn't how it actually went down



mmmmm

idk, i thought it was pretty obvious that the sela petrae + drakestone combination was a magical explosive and anders detonated it remotely -- again, with magic

the entire point of the qunari gunpowder was that it didn't require magic to activate and thus could be used by anyone

so i have no problem reconciling it with the plot

#45060
Sialater

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CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

My vision of the future is this: Alistair sits glumly on the battlefield, faced with a potential war with Orlais, and possibly an exalted march. Suddenly he feels a hand on his shoulder.

He turns to see the Warden.

"Honey, I know I haven't been around for a few years, but I'm back. And I brought you a present."

Steps aside to reveal Zevran, Hawke, Anders, and a whole crapton of Ironbark magegunpowder cannons.

"I'm pretty sure we've got this." She smiles.

"Remind me why I wasn't allowed to marry you, again?"

"Because everyone except us is stupid, basically. Now... let's blow some s**t up!" 


This.  So much.  Hell, I can even picture Moira doing that. :lol:

#45061
DreamerM

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ademska wrote...

DreamerM wrote...

incredibly violent cutscene that i'm glad wasn't how it actually went down



Because it's so violent? Considering Jennifer Halper's graphic short-story which contained, amoung other things, dismemberment, possible cannibalism and copious amounts of flying body parts, I was waiting, up until the end, for some sort of massive BOOM from Justice, some sort of unambigious display of power to balance out his demand that Anders, who is one guy, correct social and societal wrongs all by himself. Plus a sense of the terror that Vengance can cause when Anders is foolish enough to let him loose.

#45062
ademska

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DreamerM wrote...

Because it's so violent? Considering Jennifer Halper's graphic short-story which contained, amoung other things, dismemberment, possible cannibalism and copious amounts of flying body parts, I was waiting, up until the end, for some sort of massive BOOM from Justice, some sort of unambigious display of power to balance out his demand that Anders, who is one guy, correct social and societal wrongs all by himself. Plus a sense of the terror that Vengance can cause when Anders is foolish enough to let him loose.


no, though liquefaction is definitely low on the list of my preferred ways to die haha ew

i just really enjoy the way it was handled in-game. it was abrupt and not too melodramatic, which i personally love. there was just enough time for me to go ...wait anders oh **** OH **** WHAT GONNA HAP---

not to mention, the way you did it puts a big emphasis on the life inside the chantry and not the destruction of the chantry as an institution, which is the far more important aspect of the act. don't misunderstand, i'm not trying to extricate anders from the whole loss of life issue, i just really like the way it was done is all ;)

Modifié par ademska, 16 juin 2011 - 03:06 .


#45063
LT123

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CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

My vision of the future is this: Alistair sits glumly on the battlefield, faced with a potential war with Orlais, and possibly an exalted march. Suddenly he feels a hand on his shoulder.

He turns to see the Warden.

"Honey, I know I haven't been around for a few years, but I'm back. And I brought you a present."

Steps aside to reveal Zevran, Hawke, Anders, and a whole crapton of Ironbark magegunpowder cannons.

"I'm pretty sure we've got this." She smiles.

"Remind me why I wasn't allowed to marry you, again?"

"Because everyone except us is stupid, basically. Now... let's blow some s**t up!" 


I want this to happen, but with the entire gang from Origins, Awakening, the DLC, and DA2 teaming up to face off against Flemeth/Orlais/the Chantry. So. much. awesome. Maybe with this theme playing.

Edit: Writing fail.

Modifié par LT123, 16 juin 2011 - 03:34 .


#45064
CulturalGeekGirl

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LT123 wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

My vision of the future is this: Alistair sits glumly on the battlefield, faced with a potential war with Orlais, and possibly an exalted march. Suddenly he feels a hand on his shoulder.

He turns to see the Warden.

"Honey, I know I haven't been around for a few years, but I'm back. And I brought you a present."

Steps aside to reveal Zevran, Hawke, Anders, and a whole crapton of Ironbark magegunpowder cannons.

"I'm pretty sure we've got this." She smiles.

"Remind me why I wasn't allowed to marry you, again?"

"Because everyone except us is stupid, basically. Now... let's blow some s**t up!" 


I want this happen, but with the entire gang from Origins, Awakening, the DLC, and DA2 teaming up to face off against Flemeth/Orlais/the Chantry. So. much. awesome. Maybe with this theme playing.


Is it wrong that I knew exactly what theme that was going to be before I clicked on it? I am so happy.

The resulting badass super squad of charming friends would totally break the character of the world with all it's sad sadness... so I'm sort of hoping that in the next game we just see Orlais, with tantalizing hints of what might be happening elsewhere that we can build a nice solid fanon around.

Basically as long as the games don't directly contradict this scenario, it is definitely what happened.

#45065
Reflection Muse

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LT123 wrote...
I want this happen, but with the entire gang from Origins, Awakening, the DLC, and DA2 teaming up to face off against Flemeth/Orlais/the Chantry. So. much. awesome. Maybe with this theme playing.


I can't really explain why (especially since it's not at all related to the video you linked), but this whole explained scenario totally makes me want some "Flemeth's Angels" ala Charlie's Angels art. :D

#45066
LT123

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CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

LT123 wrote...

I want this to happen, but with the entire gang from Origins,
Awakening, the DLC, and DA2 teaming up to face off against
Flemeth/Orlais/the Chantry. So. much. awesome. Maybe with this theme playing.

Is it wrong that I knew exactly what theme that was going to be before I clicked on it? I am so happy.
The resulting badass super squad of charming friends would totally break the character of the world with all it's sad sadness... so I'm sort of hoping that in the next game we just see Orlais, with tantalizing hints
of what might be happening elsewhere that we can build a nice solid fanon around.

Basically as long as the games don't directly contradict this scenario, it is definitely what happened.

*highfive* :)

The Warden: "I love it when a plan comes together!"

Edit: Because posting late at night results in destroyed quote trees.

Modifié par LT123, 16 juin 2011 - 03:41 .


#45067
Amondra

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 I come with an important message! Anders loves you!

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#45068
DreamerM

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ademska wrote...

i just really enjoy the way it was handled in-game. it was abrupt and not too melodramatic, which i personally love. there was just enough time for me to go ...wait anders oh **** OH **** WHAT GONNA HAP---

not to mention, the way you did it puts a big emphasis on the life inside the chantry and not the destruction of the chantry as an institution, which is the far more important aspect of the act. don't misunderstand, i'm not trying to extricate anders from the whole loss of life issue, i just really like the way it was done is all ;)


I think the way it was done, with Anders setting off the blast remotely and never having to look his victims in the face, is vaguely cowardly. He can go on now about how sorry he is, but he wasn't really in there, so he'll never have to remember his own carnage firsthand. It makes it easier for him to keep justifying it to himself, and make it easer for Hawke to forgive him.

And I think he set off the blast that way just because it was easier to stage then an elaborate destruction, and also kept all the characters in one convinient location.

And I don't buy that a mage should need explosives to destroy a building. Especially a mage who is technically an Abomination, which should mean he's basically got the magical equivalent of a nucelar power plant inside of him. Like I said, I waited the ENTIRE GAME for an incident like the one in Jennifer Halper's story, where Vengance could flatten a whole group of heavily armed Gray Wardens and Templars just by thinking about it. That would establish Vengence as a real threat that everyone, even Anders, can be afraid of without sounding "whiney."

Plus it makes Justice look like some short of spirtual bully for demanding Anders fix the world without actually giving him any tools to make it happen. Speaking of which, except for a one-sentance convo in the fade, you never get a chance to actually TALK to Justice himself, and I thought that was a missed oppertunity too.

Modifié par DreamerM, 16 juin 2011 - 06:11 .


#45069
highcastle

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DreamerM wrote...

I think the way it was done, with Anders setting off the blast remotely and never having to look his victims in the face, is vaguely cowardly. He can go on now about how sorry he is, but he wasn't really in there, so he'll never have to remember his own carnage firsthand. It makes it easier for him to keep justifying it to himself, and make it easer for Hawke to forgive him.

And I think he set off the blast that way just because it was easier to stage then an elaborate destruction, and also kept all the characters in one convinient location.

And I don't buy that a mage should need explosives to destroy a building. Especially a mage who is technically an Abomination, which should mean he's basically got the magical equivalent of a nucelar power plant inside of him. Like I said, I waited the ENTIRE GAME for an incident like the one in Jennifer Halper's story, where Vengance could flatten a whole group of heavily armed Gray Wardens and Templars just by thinking about it. That would establish Vengence as a real threat that everyone, even Anders, can be afraid of without sounding "whiney."

Plus it makes Justice look like some short of spirtual bully for demanding Anders fix the world without actually giving him any tools to make it happen. Speaking of which, except for a one-sentance convo in the fade, you never get a chance to actually TALK to Justice himself, and I thought that was a missed oppertunity too.


Justice/Vengeance isn't intended to be an obvious threat, or even neccessarily a threat at all. Part of the game's core principles is the ambiguity between good and evil. Just like the devs didn't want to be too clear on whether the templars or the mages had the moral high ground here (I still think there are more reasons for one over the other, but that's just a case of mileage varying).

Justice, however, tends to get demonized by quite a few people. And there are legitimate bases for concern. It seems he was the one who approached Anders (judging by the short story), which puts his possession in a suspect light. He's definitely a source of constant stress for Anders, too. But let's look at the good he's done: before possessing Anders, Anders was largely selfish and self-serving. What's the first thing we see him doing in DA2, though? Helping the sick. Do you see DAA!Anders hosting a free clinic for refugees and the downtrodden? Similarly, he's heavily involved in the liberation of oppressed mages. DAA!Anders made it clear he watched his own skin first and foremost, and risking it for others was not something that held much appeal to him.

Thus, it seems being possessed by Justice also made Anders a bit more altruistic. As a staunch mage supporter, I also believe Justice gave Anders the strength and power to fight an oppressive regime. Or rather, Anders had the power in the past, but not the sense of responsibility. To put it in Spiderman terms, Justice became the Uncle Ben voice of guidance. Did he take it too far? Well, that's the crux of the game, isn't it?

As for the explosion, I always assumed it was some mixture of magically augmented gunpowder, basically. The Qunari plots threw their blackpowder in our faces. Then you have the Engima of Kirkwall saying the whole city was designed as some kind of rune or another, possibly to amplify power. I assumed Anders utilized both these concepts to construct his jenga device.

And I believe there's a reason to keep Justice out of it. Saying "a demon made him do it" would be the easy way out. I think the devs wanted to make it clear that this was Anders acting. He may have been influenced by Justice, but at the end of the day, he was the one pulling the trigger, so to speak.

#45070
DreamerM

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highcastle wrote...

And I believe there's a reason to keep Justice out of it. Saying "a demon made him do it" would be the easy way out. I think the devs wanted to make it clear that this was Anders acting. He may have been influenced by Justice, but at the end of the day, he was the one pulling the trigger, so to speak.


I don't want to make it sound like I'm demonizing Justice, or blaming him for "everything" that Anders did. I'm saying that Anders post-possession never really did anything that Anders pre-possession couldn't have done if he'd wanted to. And this makes me wonder why his character needed to be possessed at all. Completely ignoring Awakening, why couldn't "Anders" have just been a passionate political activist a la Leon Trotsky? Why did he need to be tortured with a demonic possession in order to do more community service?

We needed a sense of what Justice/Vengence brought to the table, and how just having them around raised the stakes. We never got that?

#45071
Amondra

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highcastle wrote...

DreamerM wrote...

I think the way it was done, with Anders setting off the blast remotely and never having to look his victims in the face, is vaguely cowardly. He can go on now about how sorry he is, but he wasn't really in there, so he'll never have to remember his own carnage firsthand. It makes it easier for him to keep justifying it to himself, and make it easer for Hawke to forgive him.

And I think he set off the blast that way just because it was easier to stage then an elaborate destruction, and also kept all the characters in one convinient location.

And I don't buy that a mage should need explosives to destroy a building. Especially a mage who is technically an Abomination, which should mean he's basically got the magical equivalent of a nucelar power plant inside of him. Like I said, I waited the ENTIRE GAME for an incident like the one in Jennifer Halper's story, where Vengance could flatten a whole group of heavily armed Gray Wardens and Templars just by thinking about it. That would establish Vengence as a real threat that everyone, even Anders, can be afraid of without sounding "whiney."

Plus it makes Justice look like some short of spirtual bully for demanding Anders fix the world without actually giving him any tools to make it happen. Speaking of which, except for a one-sentance convo in the fade, you never get a chance to actually TALK to Justice himself, and I thought that was a missed oppertunity too.


Justice/Vengeance isn't intended to be an obvious threat, or even neccessarily a threat at all. Part of the game's core principles is the ambiguity between good and evil. Just like the devs didn't want to be too clear on whether the templars or the mages had the moral high ground here (I still think there are more reasons for one over the other, but that's just a case of mileage varying).

Justice, however, tends to get demonized by quite a few people. And there are legitimate bases for concern. It seems he was the one who approached Anders (judging by the short story), which puts his possession in a suspect light. He's definitely a source of constant stress for Anders, too. But let's look at the good he's done: before possessing Anders, Anders was largely selfish and self-serving. What's the first thing we see him doing in DA2, though? Helping the sick. Do you see DAA!Anders hosting a free clinic for refugees and the downtrodden? Similarly, he's heavily involved in the liberation of oppressed mages. DAA!Anders made it clear he watched his own skin first and foremost, and risking it for others was not something that held much appeal to him.

Thus, it seems being possessed by Justice also made Anders a bit more altruistic. As a staunch mage supporter, I also believe Justice gave Anders the strength and power to fight an oppressive regime. Or rather, Anders had the power in the past, but not the sense of responsibility. To put it in Spiderman terms, Justice became the Uncle Ben voice of guidance. Did he take it too far? Well, that's the crux of the game, isn't it?

As for the explosion, I always assumed it was some mixture of magically augmented gunpowder, basically. The Qunari plots threw their blackpowder in our faces. Then you have the Engima of Kirkwall saying the whole city was designed as some kind of rune or another, possibly to amplify power. I assumed Anders utilized both these concepts to construct his jenga device.

And I believe there's a reason to keep Justice out of it. Saying "a demon made him do it" would be the easy way out. I think the devs wanted to make it clear that this was Anders acting. He may have been influenced by Justice, but at the end of the day, he was the one pulling the trigger, so to speak.


^ that exactly.  Also I think saying "A demon made him do it." just cheapens his character overall.  

I also don't think Vengeance/Justice is a demon. Like retribution, vengeance only happens when what we see as justice fail (I.E. our justice system). At vengeance and retributions core is justice. So because his fundamental core isn't really changed merely altered(because Anders see's it as the worlds idea of justice has failed) to what is at hand. 

My point, I think Anders considers Justice a demon, because of one, how much more aggressive he is now, then before. Because demons are known to act on emotions and be overly agressive, Anders is drawing lines, or rather trying to because he wants an answer for what is happening because he isn't sure himself. Also how whether or not Justice is being Justice or Vengeance is solely based off Anders over all feelings on the matter, which is something a demon, by what he knows would do, go off of emotions.

So I think Justice is still a spirit, just an evolved one. He isn't as single celled as other spirits seem to be. He himself has developed layers.  I believe he would have been more like retribution if Anders was more active in helping mages prior to the merge and was more 'prideful' in a sense vs. him being more 'hateful'

I am also in the boat, that once this war is over, and lets say the mages win and Anders is still alive, Justice will calm down. However Anders sense of justice will forever be strong thus if he is confronted with any injustice he will act on it according to any of the three I mentioned. However I see retribution having to do more with pride then rage so Justice might only swing between the two...

#45072
highcastle

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DreamerM wrote...

highcastle wrote...

And I believe there's a reason to keep Justice out of it. Saying "a demon made him do it" would be the easy way out. I think the devs wanted to make it clear that this was Anders acting. He may have been influenced by Justice, but at the end of the day, he was the one pulling the trigger, so to speak.


I don't want to make it sound like I'm demonizing Justice, or blaming him for "everything" that Anders did. I'm saying that Anders post-possession never really did anything that Anders pre-possession couldn't have done if he'd wanted to. And this makes me wonder why his character needed to be possessed at all. Completely ignoring Awakening, why couldn't "Anders" have just been a passionate political activist a la Leon Trotsky? Why did he need to be tortured with a demonic possession in order to do more community service?

We needed a sense of what Justice/Vengence brought to the table, and how just having them around raised the stakes. We never got that?


Because pre-Justice!Anders never really thought about the injustices of the Circle on a large scale. He was good at supressing his pain, masking it behind humor. He had a coping mechanism, it worked, and thus he wasn't apt to start singing Viva la Revolucion. 

I mentioned in an earlier post that Justice's possession of Kristof resulted in him inspectng to some degree all of his host's memories. That's how he learns what the darkspawn are, who Aura is, etc. I think it's likely that he does the same thing to Anders. And if Anders feels Justice's thoughts as his own, then it's equally likely he's forced to relive all the terrible things that happened to him over the years. It breaks him down. Coupled with Justice reinforcing that such things are not right, should not be ignored, it gives him the kick in the pants he needs to jump into action.

Would Anders without Jusitce be capable of all he did? I don't think so. I mean, possibly if something really traumatic happened to him. But he'd be just as likely to shut down completely, I think. Justice breaks him down, but also adds the determination to put himself back together.

As for Justice raising the stakes...well, we see what he's capable of in Justice and Tranquility. On the friendship path, though, the whole point is to better fuse Anders and Justice together, so there are fewer of those moments where you see a split between the two. Anders gets better at controlling Justice, their goals are in harmony, so there's no reason for Justice to pull a Harbinger. I can't speak to rivalry because it holds zero appeal to me.

#45073
DreamerM

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highcastle wrote...
(SNIP) ... if Anders feels Justice's thoughts as his own, then it's equally likely he's forced to relive all the terrible things that happened to him over the years. It breaks him down. Coupled with Justice reinforcing that such things are not right, should not be ignored, it gives him the kick in the pants he needs to jump into action.

Would Anders without Jusitce be capable of all he did? I don't think so. I mean, possibly if something really traumatic happened to him. But he'd be just as likely to shut down completely, I think. Justice breaks him down, but also adds the determination to put himself back together.


Psychologically speaking, you may have a point; Justice gave Anders some backbone and determination. But another central theme of Dragon Age is cost vs. gain: doing something bad now for a good outcome later. And I, personally, don't see why you need to put a Demon in a character simply to give them a moral awakening and a political cause. Plenty of normal humans on our dull real planet Earth don't need demons to slave all night for political causes and help the needy. The Writers at Bioware are too smart to be genuinely unable to think of a way for Anders to have a political awakening OTHER then becoming possessed. Having Anders's political backbone be a side-effect of a demonic possession is kind of a quick way to make his beliefs meaningless, since there's always that wonder about whether they are really his or if he's just repeating what the voices are telling him again.

Plus, they gloss over the main reason Abominations are generally considered Bad Things and why there exists an army basically dedicated to fighting and containing them: Abominations are supposed to be POWERFUL. That's why mages pushed to the limit run to Demons and Spirits: they are hoping the power boost will save them.

We never got a sense of Justice's power, except in Jennifer Halper's story. And if people have a tendency to demonize Justice it's also because at no point in DA:2 are we actually given a chance to connect with Justice as a character, or even as an aspect to a character. And if Justice is barely present, then Vengence is a rumor, he's a non-entity, we don't ever see him and we wonder why Anders is making such a fuss about it. That's where the Whiney!Anders complaints come from.

#45074
ademska

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DreamerM wrote...

Psychologically speaking, you may have a point; Justice gave Anders some backbone and determination. But another central theme of Dragon Age is cost vs. gain: doing something bad now for a good outcome later. And I, personally, don't see why you need to put a Demon in a character simply to give them a moral awakening and a political cause. Plenty of normal humans on our dull real planet Earth don't need demons to slave all night for political causes and help the needy. The Writers at Bioware are too smart to be genuinely unable to think of a way for Anders to have a political awakening OTHER then becoming possessed. Having Anders's political backbone be a side-effect of a demonic possession is kind of a quick way to make his beliefs meaningless, since there's always that wonder about whether they are really his or if he's just repeating what the voices are telling him again.

Plus, they gloss over the main reason Abominations are generally considered Bad Things and why there exists an army basically dedicated to fighting and containing them: Abominations are supposed to be POWERFUL. That's why mages pushed to the limit run to Demons and Spirits: they are hoping the power boost will save them.

We never got a sense of Justice's power, except in Jennifer Halper's story. And if people have a tendency to demonize Justice it's also because at no point in DA:2 are we actually given a chance to connect with Justice as a character, or even as an aspect to a character. And if Justice is barely present, then Vengence is a rumor, he's a non-entity, we don't ever see him and we wonder why Anders is making such a fuss about it. That's where the Whiney!Anders complaints come from.


except he's not demonically possessed. no matter how you look at it, he's cohabitating with an influential spirit. now, where on the scale of good vs evil (or whatever other arbitrary labelers you like) justice falls is up for debate, but he is not demonically possessed.  we have a point of reference of reference for anders without justice, so ignoring the fact that we DO get to meet justice throughout an entire game, in da2 we see justice through janders, through his actions and his words.

you see it as a simplistic fix because you refuse to acknowledge the complexity of the issue

and, uh, as to the other thing, brutally murdering a young, innocent girl should be enough to sate any janders bloodlust without him physically rending bodies asunder.

eta: as far as anders' political beliefs are concerned, this goes back to that point of reference. anders has always had the beliefs he holds in da2, right down to the violence--remember where we find him in daa--he just needed an external kick in the seat to grow up and become more altruistic, less ridiculously selfish. like @highcastle said, there was probably no way this was going to happen without justice barring some kind of deeply traumatic experience.

Modifié par ademska, 16 juin 2011 - 07:40 .


#45075
DreamerM

DreamerM
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ademska wrote...
except he's not demonically possessed. no matter how you look at it, he's cohabitating with an influential spirit. now, where on the scale of good vs evil (or whatever other arbitrary labelers you like) justice falls is up for debate, but he is not demonically possessed.


You're really going to argue that he's not possessed? He sure acts possessed sometimes, and thinks of himself as possessed. He talks to Merril about what it's like to be possessed in an attempt to scare her away from blood magic, and it sure sounded like he was talking from experience, that there are times when he can't control his own body.

ademska wrote...
we have a point of reference of reference for anders without justice, so ignoring the fact that we DO get to meet justice throughout an entire game, in da2 we see justice through janders, through his actions and his words.


You think you do, anyway. How much of that is actually Justice, and how much is phantom-limb or residual memory from Awakening? You think he's in there, so you put him there yourself. Everyone who hasn't played Awakening gets left in the dust.

If they wanted to make Justice an actual character, or even just a force we were supposed to think about, they should have done more to establish his presense and what it really means for his host. Let us get to know him in his new context as Anders's Jimmeny Cricket, if that's his role.

ademska wrote...
and, uh, as to the other thing, brutally murdering a young, innocent girl should be enough to sate any janders bloodlust without him physically rending bodies asunder.


Terrible, surely, but nothing he couldn't have done prior to possession if he'd ever wanted to. Not that he would have ever wanted to, but this is another psychological change, and no affect on his powers or his nature.