57020 réponses à ce sujet

[GailRana]

ademska wrote...

@gailrana: i certainly am, they're cut from a similar cloth and i like that kind of character archetype, tends to speak to hidden layers and whatnot, which both of them have in spades. same reason i love zevran.

anders' jokes are better, though

i am attracted to characters i can discuss for months on message boards

Yep, those charaters have as many layers as Ander's DA:2 robes.

I was surprised how much i loved Zevran as DA:O progressed. I mean, when i met him i knew he was going to be cool, but they did such a good job in the character progression in making him endearing in a sweet way. Dragon age is just so good at creating characters with depth. Definitely why it's one of my favorite video games


EDIT:
But since this is Ander's thread (and top):


Apostate's Courage
by N7Laika

Modifié par GailRana, 20 juin 2011 - 05:33 .

[GailRana]

Maaia wrote...

Hi all. I've been lurking since the
beginning of this thread (I'm shy) and have read nearly every page (I
think I got lost a couple times when there were 50 pages of posts to
catch up on over the course of a day [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/sideways.png[/smilie]).
I'm on my 6th play-through and I just rolled a male Hawke for the first
time. (Is it bad that I think he's almost as hot as Anders?) I intend
to try the Isabella or Merril romances with him, but not sure I'll be
able to resist the call of the feathery pauldrons.

Hello! 

It seems no one is strong enough to resist the feathery pauldrons. No wonder the mages wear them!

Maaia wrote...

So, is almost everyone who loved DA2 Anders also an Alistair fan?

I was a total Zev girl in DAO. Thought I'd be all about Fenris in DA2, and I probably would have if not for the total Anders package.

Zev was definitely one of my favs as well. Would have been my favorite romance in DA:O if Alistair hadn't won me over so completely

Maaia wrote...
There is
just something about Anders that is nearly irresistible. I have to say,
The Kiss - and (pants) - is what won me over during my first run. I was
totally [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/andy.png[/smilie][smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/w00t.png[/smilie][smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie][smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/love.png[/smilie]

Anyways, just thought I'd venture out and say hi!

hehe, that was pretty much my reaction as well, but with a bit more blushing thrown in

Modifié par GailRana, 20 juin 2011 - 05:46 .

[Evilnor]

Yep, was all about Alistair in DAO . . . largely because he reminded me of a guy I liked, who likes to style himself as a white-knight sorta guy (he can't play ****!Hawke to save his life). Plus the idea of getting into a prince's pants kinda sold me once I learned about it.

I guess Alistair and Anders are both sensitive guys at heart, and it shows through a lot, once they can't find anything to joke about. There's just something so . . . attractive about that. Bad **** has happened to them personally, but they can still find the heart to be strong and care about other people at the same time, and not wallow in emo at the drop of a hat.  (though come to think of it, Alistair does a good bit of wallowing after Ostagar, but he gets over it)

Modifié par Evilnor, 20 juin 2011 - 07:07 .

[ademska]

Maaia wrote...

Hi all. I've been lurking since the beginning of this thread (I'm shy) and have read nearly every page (I think I got lost a couple times when there were 50 pages of posts to catch up on over the course of a day ). I'm on my 6th play-through and I just rolled a male Hawke for the first time. (Is it bad that I think he's almost as hot as Anders?) I intend to try the Isabella or Merril romances with him, but not sure I'll be able to resist the call of the feathery pauldrons.

welcome! i'm pretty new myself, so we can be newbies together

and yeah uh default garrett hawke is pretty much the hottest man ever, i am just saying, if i were dude-inclined i would be all over that like you can't even imagine... but it is also quite easy to roll a sexy custom

if you find yourself unable to resist our feathery darling, keep an eye out for the different dialogue as a male hawke! at the very least flirt with him in act 1, he gives a brilliant speech on love and gender and such

Modifié par ademska, 20 juin 2011 - 07:08 .

[CulturalGeekGirl]

I was having a thought earlier today that ties in with this whole Alistair/Anders thing.

If you're a non-Cousland Warden who is romancing Alistair, and you either make him King or refuse to kill Loghain (in order to have him die on the Archdemon, naturally), you're pretty much doing what Anders does at the end of DA2, minus the unfortunate lying bit. You're deciding that some ideal (namely having a good and compassionate ruler) is more important than love. Sure I know Anora is a decent ruler, but if s*** is going down on the scale we're looking at, Alistair is going to be better for everyone who isn't rich and powerful. Anora has little interest in helping anyone who doesn't directly benefit her.

My Mahariel did the "becoming the consort" thing, but I feel like long distances and absences (especially with the expansions) would cause them to drift apart. (Also, if Anders had been romanceable in Awakenings, she would have climbed that like a tree.)

My Amell let Loghain live and kill the Archdemon, just in case the DR turned out to be a "bad plan." She felt that having everyone she cared about alive and no old gods around would be better than any of the alternatives.

In cases where Alistair is the one who breaks off the romance, he's also doing something similar to Anders: sacrificing love for duty.

It just made me realize that a lot of female Wardens have direct experience with the "sacrifice romantic ideals for the greater good," thing, while most Hawkes don't; the dialogue options don't even really give you the ability to be that kind of person. I think that's why I've become somewhat fascinated with Anders and the Warden. I may also have to make a Mage revolutionary Hawke for Anders now; previously my mage was the only one loyal to Fenris.

The big sticking point here is the lie about the potion. Though that doens't seem to be what people are most likely to consider the most unforgiveable or odious part of what happens in act 3, it's the one thing that annoys me. Not that Anders should have told the truth, I understand why he didn't. Rather, he should have given Hawke the chance not to ask any questions, simply stating "I need these ingredients for a project, I'm not entirely sure that it will work, so I'd rather not tell you what it is yet." That way, a mage-sympathetic Hawke can help him without having to endure the false hope of the lie. I understand why they had him lie as the default, and he was probably half trying to get Hawke to hate him, in order to distance himself. It still gets me a little bit, but most of my Hawkes are much less broken up about the whole lie thing than the average player seems to be... perhaps because I had it spoiled for me beforehand. Also, possibly because my Anders-rivalmancing rogue Hawke is also a pathological liar.

And yes, once you're past that, there's still the question of the bomb itself, I suppose. I just can't get that worked up about it in the context of a world like Thedas, especially when I have the perspective of an elf. Lots of people die in a war, more die in a blight, and hundreds of thousands have died at the Chantry's hands. The numbers involved here seem so small; tragic, but I'm not keeling over about it.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 20 juin 2011 - 08:40 .

[kromify]

Maaia wrote...

Hi all. I've been lurking since the beginning of this thread (I'm shy) and have read nearly every page (I think I got lost a couple times when there were 50 pages of posts to catch up on over the course of a day ). I'm on my 6th play-through and I just rolled a male Hawke for the first time. (Is it bad that I think he's almost as hot as Anders?) I intend to try the Isabella or Merril romances with him, but not sure I'll be able to resist the call of the feathery pauldrons.

snip

Anyways, just thought I'd venture out and say hi! 

hello! do i detect a table-topper? no one else "rolls" characters 

[kromify]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

I was having a thought earlier today that ties in with this whole Alistair/Anders thing.

If you're a non-Cousland Warden who is romancing Alistair, and you either make him King or refuse to kill Loghain (in order to have him die on the Archdemon, naturally), you're pretty much doing what Anders does at the end of DA2, minus the unfortunate lying bit. You're deciding that some ideal (namely having a good and compassionate ruler) is more important than love. Sure I know Anora is a decent ruler, but if s*** is going down on the scale we're looking at, Alistair is going to be better for everyone who isn't rich and powerful. Anora has little interest in helping anyone who doesn't directly benefit her.

My Mahariel did the "becoming the consort" thing, but I feel like long distances and absences (especially with the expansions) would cause them to drift apart. (Also, if Anders had been romanceable in Awakenings, she would have climbed that like a tree.)

My Amell let Loghain live and kill the Archdemon, just in case the DR turned out to be a "bad plan." She felt that having everyone she cared about alive and no old gods around would be better than any of the alternatives.

In cases where Alistair is the one who breaks off the romance, he's also doing something similar to Anders: sacrificing love for duty.

It just made me realize that a lot of female Wardens have direct experience with the "sacrifice romantic ideals for the greater good," thing, while most Hawkes don't; the dialogue options don't even really give you the ability to be that kind of person. I think that's why I've become somewhat fascinated with Anders and the Warden. I may also have to make a Mage revolutionary Hawke for Anders now; previously my mage was the only one loyal to Fenris.

The big sticking point here is the lie about the potion. Though that doens't seem to be what people are most likely to consider the most unforgiveable or odious part of what happens in act 3, it's the one thing that annoys me. Not that Anders should have told the truth, I understand why he didn't. Rather, he should have given Hawke the chance not to ask any questions, simply stating "I need these ingredients for a project, I'm not entirely sure that it will work, so I'd rather not tell you what it is yet." That way, a mage-sympathetic Hawke can help him without having to endure the false hope of the lie. I understand why they had him lie as the default, and he was probably half trying to get Hawke to hate him, in order to distance himself. It still gets me a little bit, but most of my Hawkes are much less broken up about the whole lie thing than the average player seems to be... perhaps because I had it spoiled for me beforehand. Also, possibly because my Anders-rivalmancing rogue Hawke is also a pathological liar.

And yes, once you're past that, there's still the question of the bomb itself, I suppose. I just can't get that worked up about it in the context of a world like Thedas, especially when I have the perspective of an elf. Lots of people die in a war, more die in a blight, and hundreds of thousands have died at the Chantry's hands. The numbers involved here seem so small; tragic, but I'm not keeling over about it.

like the fool i am i believe the potion story. maybe it was hope - i kinda blocked out the "anders is behaving oddly" part, in favour of "squeeeeee! waltzing into sunset." i was very disappointed when it turned out to be false, but it didn't make me hate him.

people lie all the time IRL even when they don't have too. example - my flatmate was feeling sick for days before he called work to say he couldn't go in, and he still felt the need to invent a migraine.

science!   http://onlinelibrary...1994.x/abstract or the easy to read version http://www.livescien...om/772-lie.html

[highcastle]

kromify wrote...

like the fool i am i believe the potion story. maybe it was hope - i kinda blocked out the "anders is behaving oddly" part, in favour of "squeeeeee! waltzing into sunset." i was very disappointed when it turned out to be false, but it didn't make me hate him.

people lie all the time IRL even when they don't have too. example - my flatmate was feeling sick for days before he called work to say he couldn't go in, and he still felt the need to invent a migraine.

science!   http://onlinelibrary...1994.x/abstract or the easy to read version http://www.livescien...om/772-lie.html

On my first playthrough, I missed out on the dialogue where you can confront Anders about the potion when he asks you to distract the Grand Cleric. There he admits it doesn't exist. But my first time through, having missed that, I only had my suspicion, not confirmation. My second time through with a Hawke who spoke his mind more, I got that dialogue and it made the scene so much richer. The trust issues come shining through and both Boulton and Howden put so much emotion in their delivery, you can see their relationship really straining here.

Sorry, slight digression here. I just think when people complain about the VA, they should play moments like these. This resonated for m greater than any moment in DAO in no small part because of the way the lines were spoken. *heart breaks*

[Giggles_Manically]

As a rival I love that scene.

Very well done VO between very good voice actors.

However I just cant do the last part of JUSTICE. Same reason I cant do the DR.
I wont do something for someone if they dont trust me with all the details, which Anders does not.

[AndreaDraco]

GailRana wrote...


Apostate's Courage
by N7Laika

While Anders is very well drawn, the background here is really stunning. The atmosphere is incredible!

[SurelyForth]

highcastle wrote...

On my first playthrough, I missed out on the dialogue where you can confront Anders about the potion when he asks you to distract the Grand Cleric. There he admits it doesn't exist. But my first time through, having missed that, I only had my suspicion, not confirmation. My second time through with a Hawke who spoke his mind more, I got that dialogue and it made the scene so much richer. The trust issues come shining through and both Boulton and Howden put so much emotion in their delivery, you can see their relationship really straining here.

Sorry, slight digression here. I just think when people complain about the VA, they should play moments like these. This resonated for m greater than any moment in DAO in no small part because of the way the lines were spoken. *heart breaks*

It's funny you should mention the VAs there because I  think Wyatt does an awesome job, too. She goes from conspiratorial, to frustrated to, cold, intimate anger so freaking beautifully. Despite being incredibly depressing, it's easily my favorite relationshippy conversation because it feels so real.

[berelinde]

Giggles_Manically wrote...
... However I just cant do the last part of JUSTICE. Same reason I cant do the DR.
I wont do something for someone if they dont trust me with all the details, which Anders does not.

Your Hawke would not perform some trivial action for someone s/he cared about unless they explained every detail? Your Hawke rocks some pretty major control issues.

My Hawkes, friends or rivals, do it because it is a small thing that Anders needs. Trust is not involved. Anders does not ask my Hawke for details before he tags along on yet another shopping trip, even though Anders clearly does not like shopping ("Was it really necessary to bring me along for this?" in the Hightown Market.) He asks Hawke to talk to the Grand Cleric. It's a trivial thing. Yes, Hawke knows that he's up to something. He makes no secret about that. At that point, my friend Hawkes wish they had more info because they want to help the cause and my rival Hawkes just shrug and say "Well, Anders did not complain about being led all over the Wounded Coast while playing matchmaker for Aveline, so I guess fair is fair."

[kromify]

to be fair - anyone would have gone along with that for laughs

[berelinde]

ElleMullineux wrote...
... Your partner of 3+ years asks you to do something, is uncomfortable at having to ask... so... you just say yes. It's not like he's asked you to kick a puppy.  

Yup, that's it, exactly.

Plathrough number doesn't matter, first or tenth. This will be the first time this Hawke is hearing it, regardless of how many times I, the player, have heard it.

It's even more of a no-brainer than whether or not you give Merril the... aurulin holn(?)... woodworking tool. She asked for a woodworking tool. She did not ask for a pint of fresh blood. Granted, Marethari makes it clear to Hawke that giving her the tool is placing Merrill directly in danger, so my rival Hawkes don't usually have a problem refusing to give it to her, but with Anders, it is not the same at all. For all Hawke knows, he is merely glueing his manifesto inside all the hymnals. He has been shoving them in all the books, after all. And maybe the sela petrae and drakestone were magical glue ingredients. With as loopy as Anders seems to have become over the years, nothing would surprise Hawke anymore.

[highcastle]

berelinde wrote...

ElleMullineux wrote...
... Your partner of 3+ years asks you to do something, is uncomfortable at having to ask... so... you just say yes. It's not like he's asked you to kick a puppy.  

Yup, that's it, exactly.

Plathrough number doesn't matter, first or tenth. This will be the first time this Hawke is hearing it, regardless of how many times I, the player, have heard it.

It's even more of a no-brainer than whether or not you give Merril the... aurulin holn(?)... woodworking tool. She asked for a woodworking tool. She did not ask for a pint of fresh blood. Granted, Marethari makes it clear to Hawke that giving her the tool is placing Merrill directly in danger, so my rival Hawkes don't usually have a problem refusing to give it to her, but with Anders, it is not the same at all. For all Hawke knows, he is merely glueing his manifesto inside all the hymnals. He has been shoving them in all the books, after all. And maybe the sela petrae and drakestone were magical glue ingredients. With as loopy as Anders seems to have become over the years, nothing would surprise Hawke anymore.

That's pretty much my opinion. Without a knowledge of chemistry, Hawke doesn't know what those ingredients are for. My Hawke assumed Anders was taking something from the Chantry rather than planting it there (since he'd previously called on Hawke to collect other ingredients). He wished Anders would trust him with this, but at the end of the day, he goes along with it because maybe if he trust Anders, Anders will trust them. It doesn't work, but such are the perils of a dysfunctional relationship.

[berelinde]

highcastle wrote...
... He wished Anders would trust him with this, but at the end of the day, he goes along with it because maybe if he trust Anders, Anders will trust them. It doesn't work, but such are the perils of a dysfunctional relationship.

Noah trusts Anders in an attempt to make him more trustworthy? I love that. It also rings a bell, wish I remember where I heard it. This is one of those times where I wish I was better-read. That's a principle of some philosopher or other, but I am unable to remember the connection.

Aha. Found it.

Trust men and they will be true to you; treat them greatly and they will show themselves great. – Ralph Waldo Emerson

[kromify]

berelinde wrote...

It's even more of a no-brainer than whether or not you give Merril the... aurulin holn(?)... woodworking tool. She asked for a woodworking tool. She did not ask for a pint of fresh blood. Granted, Marethari makes it clear to Hawke that giving her the tool is placing Merrill directly in danger, so my rival Hawkes don't usually have a problem refusing to give it to her, but with Anders, it is not the same at all. For all Hawke knows, he is merely glueing his manifesto inside all the hymnals. He has been shoving them in all the books, after all. And maybe the sela petrae and drakestone were magical glue ingredients. With as loopy as Anders seems to have become over the years, nothing would surprise Hawke anymore.

i bet he did that too!!

[CulturalGeekGirl]

I have really weird reactions to the chantry explosion, which is why I think I don't connect as much with Hawke's VA sometimes. There is enough variation in what the Warden can do or say that I can account for basically any personality, while Hawke's default reaction to situations is usually pretty similar, regardless of which personality you are on. (Shepard is a horse of a different color entirely... the subtlety of most of her deliveries lets me intuit whatever emotion I want to. There are only two or three cases in all of ME where I get to a line and think "ugh, delivery doesn't match my headShepard at all.")

Lir (my cannon Hawke) is pretty much on board with anything Anders could do at this point. The fact that people like Meredith and Alrik keep their jobs has shown her that the Chantry is irrevocably corrupt. She would have helped him no matter what, explanation or no, and the fact that he thought he'd have to make one up bothers her a bit.

Margaret is just shocked and horrified and saddened. She's my Fenrislovin!Hawke, so she isn't romancing Anders, she just considers him her best friend, and is shaken to the core by what he did. She trusts him completely by default, and what happens just... messes her up. Basically, she's the only one who has a reaction that resembles Hawke's default one (which is the reaction I see most often in fic.)

Crow is just frustrated. She's a brilliant liar, sees through his lie from the start, and is angry at it upsetting all her plans... which were basically "Step 1: Become Viscount. Step 2: ? Step 3: Profit." For her the rivalmance voice works pretty well, though she'd like a bit more condescending venom.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 20 juin 2011 - 01:21 .

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Many people have expressed desire for a "high-five!" response after the Chantry goes, or at least a neutral one. My preferred fancies are:

"Bold move. Not precisely how I would have approached it, but interesting."

and the horribly stolen:

"Ten out of ten for style, Anders, but minus several million for good thinking."

[beckaliz]

Ahhh, Witch Hunt! I downloaded it but didn't play it yet... Because from my understanding there isn't really any importing capability...? But that would be totally cute. XD To see Anders's kiddy doodlings.

@GailRana Psh, I'm no Alistair fan. That's not an "I [dragon] Alistair" tshirt in my closet. Pssshhh. *ahem*

Hi Maaia! *waves*

[berelinde]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Many people have expressed desire for a "high-five!" response after the Chantry goes, or at least a neutral one. My preferred fancies are:

"Bold move. Not precisely how I would have approached it, but interesting."

and the horribly stolen:

"Ten out of ten for style, Anders, but minus several million for good thinking."

This is just one of the many places where I wished there were more dialogue options. The most glaring for me, though, isn't the Chantry incident. It's when Anders visits you after you have already been with another lover. I want an option to say "I wouldn't have gone with him/her at all if you had not told me to stay away!" Where is that option, I ask you? So I invariably choose the tacky "You're the one I really care about" and mutter the other at the screen. Every time. My fiance laughs at that.

[SurelyForth]

My Hawke trusts Anders because that's what she does. By Act III, she's an overindulgent parent who will only occasionally tell her kids companions "no". She regards the rest of the world with unhealthy amounts of skepticism, but trusts her friends implicitly.

She might revise that policy after the end of the game.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

berelinde wrote...
This is just one of the many places where I wished there were more dialogue options. The most glaring for me, though, isn't the Chantry incident. It's when Anders visits you after you have already been with another lover. I want an option to say "I wouldn't have gone with him/her at all if you had not told me to stay away!" Where is that option, I ask you? So I invariably choose the tacky "You're the one I really care about" and mutter the other at the screen.Every time. My fiance laughs at that.

Haha, adorable.

I do wish I could yell at Anders for insulting Fenris without breaking up with him. Because I'm sorry, that's not the way to handle this situation, and your constant weird-ass slurs toward Fenris are the thing I like LEAST about you, Anders.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 20 juin 2011 - 01:52 .