57020 réponses à ce sujet

[FieryDove]

maxernst wrote...

That's a good point.  If I had been playing my Warden, who knew both Anders and Justice beforehand, my response to Anders would be very different.  But for my Hawke, learning almost immediately that his new acquaintance is joined with a fade spirit he describes as having been corrupted by his emotions...just sounds like a scary person to have around.

I do wish my warden could see Anders again, maybe talk to *both* of them, help them. They were all best buds in awakening. In fact the meter said love for Justice and Anders... 

Bug...ah well

[BlueMew]

berelinde wrote...
Leliana: Visions? Er... no. Also, she exemplifies why I prefer males as lovers. I don't like shoes. I don't like shopping. I just don't do "girlie."

*hands out cookie*

That *really* needed to be said
(If I recall my mage, who'd of course never gone shopping for shoes in her entire life and didn't see the need anyway, made some blank comment about what was wrong with her sturdy, nice and above all warm and waterproof boots

At least you can flirt with Anders without complimenting him on his fashion sense.

[BlueMew]

SurelyForth wrote...
@Blue Mew I wonder that, too. While DA2 Anders still has a sense of humor, he's definitely lost much of the spark he had in Awakening. Much of it was deflecting, but he had genuine confidence in himself and his power and he while he was a pain in the ass, he was a delightful pain in the ass. My Hawke is attracted to DA2 Anders' selflessness and would probably like but not love Awkening Anders that much, but I feel like it's strange that she doesn't know that side of him when I do.

It doesn't bother me that much. Especially because there are strong hints of what he was like before Justice, if you go to the Hanged Man, for instance, or the moments when he's a bit more light-hearted. If you have a Hawke who's sensitive to that - mine is a bit like Awakening Anders, minus the chick magnet thing -  s/he will pick up on that and wonder how much of Anders is A-Anders, how much of him is Justice and how much is something new. That's what I like to think, at least.

[tmp7704]

highcastle wrote...

Except, if you exhausted all your conversation options early (hello first DAO playthrough), the vast majority of your conversations were no deeper than "Wrex" "Shepherd"-esque patterns. They got a few new things to say with gifts or after certain time periods, but I was still left with a lot of empty dialogues. In DA2, you have at least 2 conversations, plus gifts, plus special reactions (like Leandra's death), plus more dialogue on quests, plus endgame stuff etc. I personally never felt like I was at a loss for things to talk about.

Have to say short of the companion's appearance after Leandra's quest and aside from the initial talk you have when meeting them in few cases, i've never really felt Hawke had an actual conversation with any of the characters. Maybe because what was there was nearly all stretched into a drip-fed string of tiny 2-3 sentence exchanges out of fear that otherwise oh my god the player could choose not to pace themselves and run out of the stuff. But for some reason it felt even more limited and artificial than the ME approach, even though they're essentially the same thing (small new convo unlocked after each main plot progress)

To put it differently, with DAO it would eventually get to the Shepard-Wrex point. But with DA2 it felt like that the whole time.

[SurelyForth]

highcastle wrote...
Except, if you exhausted all your conversation options early (hello first DAO playthrough), the vast majority of your conversations were no deeper than "Wrex" "Shepherd"-esque patterns. They got a few new things to say with gifts or after certain time periods, but I was still left with a lot of empty dialogues. In DA2, you have at least 2 conversations, plus gifts, plus special reactions (like Leandra's death), plus more dialogue on quests, plus endgame stuff etc. I personally never felt like I was at a loss for things to talk about.

And the library was used in the aftermath of All That Remains. That's where Gamlen talks to you.

But they did a better job of segmenting the conversations in DAO so you could have friendly chats with Alistair about Grey Wardens and his childhood and also have romantic conversations. I never felt like I was missing out on anything with him because I was romancing him (except for the conversation you have with him after he's made King. I ADORE the hardened King Alistair conversation you have as a friend and loathe the Just Shut Up And Keep Boning Me convo if you're his lover). With Anders, I definitely do feel there are things I miss and that shouldn't be the case. The dialogue is all there, for Hawke and Anders, I don't know why they don't give us access to it no matter the relationship status.

DA 2 got some stuff right, definitely, but there are places where it's lacking. If they include roughly the same amount of romantic content for a 1-2 year long relationship as they do a 6 year relationship? that means that the latter is going to seem slighter upon examination.

[beckaliz]

Toastyblue2 wrote...

SurelyForth wrote...

Despite him being my favorite character, I think I need to fill in too many blanks in Act 2 for Anders to be my favorite BW romance arc. There needs to be at least one more conversation between sex and the Arishok and perhaps something more at the beginning of Act 3.

I agree 100%.

It's been said a million times before, but this is where DA:O excelled with their romances and DA2 fell short: the chance to chat with your love interest pretty much whenever, and the little extra scenes that popped up in camp. I'd have loved the chance to have my Marian Hawke chat up Anders at home anytime I wanted. Even if it were something completely mundane, I'd have loved it:

Marian: Ah, mail's here.
Anders: Anything for me?
Marian: Letter from Alistair, bill from the Black Emporium, May issue of Thedas News and World Report...
Anders: Nice. By the way, we're out of milk again. *whispers* I think Sandal's been drinking straight from the jug.
Sandal: ENCHANTMENT!

I always wondered why Hawke had a very nice library and there weren't any scenes in it. (Unless I've missed one.) You would think that would be Anders' favorite hang-out spot.

ADORABLE!! <3<3

[tmp7704]

Thinking about it a little more, i guess the problem i had with the Awakening/DA2 system was the inability to choose and change the subjects. That's why it fails to feel like a conversation, the lack of the control element -- you don't decide what you want to talk about, but are instead simply fed what the writer decided to be suitable at that point.

Modifié par tmp7704, 20 juin 2011 - 04:55 .

[highcastle]

SurelyForth wrote...

But they did a better job of segmenting the conversations in DAO so you could have friendly chats with Alistair about Grey Wardens and his childhood and also have romantic conversations. I never felt like I was missing out on anything with him because I was romancing him (except for the conversation you have with him after he's made King. I ADORE the hardened King Alistair conversation you have as a friend and loathe the Just Shut Up And Keep Boning Me convo if you're his lover). With Anders, I definitely do feel there are things I miss and that shouldn't be the case. The dialogue is all there, for Hawke and Anders, I don't know why they don't give us access to it no matter the relationship status.

DA 2 got some stuff right, definitely, but there are places where it's lacking. If they include roughly the same amount of romantic content for a 1-2 year long relationship as they do a 6 year relationship? that means that the latter is going to seem slighter upon examination.

Your mileage may vary. With Zevran, for instance, I ran out of things to say fast. And the romance-specific conversations were pretty sparse. They grew meatier towards the end of the game, but in the meantime, I sort of lost sight of why I should care. I had the same impression in ME2 when every goddamn time I went to talk to Garrus after a mission, he was always working on the frakking calibrations. It was frustrating. At least DA2 spaced their talks out more evenly. I never felt like I was missing anything.

I agree with you, though, that non-romanced characters get access to some dialogue that romanced ones don't, and that's a shame. Just like I think it's a shame that LadyHawke doesn't get the Karl dialogue and m!Hawke doesn't get quite the extent of Anders' backing off and backing away.

Also, you have to consider that while the DA2 relationship takes place over the course of 6 years, how much of that are we seeing really? It's hard to judge timelines in this game, as so few references are really given. But in Act 3, for instance, Fenris says his sister will only be at the Hanged Man for a week. You can do this quest pretty much whenever. Does that mean all of Act 3 occurred only in one week? (This is complicated by the Finding Nathaniel quest. Earlier in the Deep Roads, Varric says it takes several weeks to get down to those depths and back. So...how'd they manage it this time? The only thing I can think of is that Nate didn't reach the same depths yet, but was still close enough to the surface for easy access.)

Digression aside, a case could be made for us only experiencing a little over a couple months of Hawke's life, compared to Origins explicit year-to-year-and-a-half. So in that sense, Hawke actually made out with more interaction. Sorry, in part I'm playing devil's advocate, and in part I legitimately prefer how DA2 handled the conversations. Even if I want more of them (always).

[Amondra]

I wonder if it is this way with Anders because of his dedication to the cause over Hawke? I mean I agree even if there is the same amount of dialogue I still feel like I missed something along the way, maybe it is the time jumps?

I mean there is a difference in the way he responds to your flirting from act one to act two. In act two is way more receptive of them and flirts back, so clearly at some point between those three years he starts breaking down his wall. We never see it though, so it feels like we missed something important to the romance, the part where he first starts to break down and admit his feelings. We just get the final part.

In act three I think he is hellbent at that point, he kinda distances himself from the relationship and with good reason, whether or not he knew exactly what he was going to do, he knew it was going to be something that would change Hawke's opinion of him. So in that respect it makes sense then.

But yes I get the feeling the romance fell a little on the short side.

[ipgd]

I... think Garrus is kind of boring.

[SurelyForth]

ipgd wrote...

I... think Garrus is kind of boring.

You're kind of boring.

*goes in corner and hides*

@Highcastle I know the only reason why I wasn't running down tto the clinic to check for more dialogue with Anders is because conversations are their own quests in DA2. If you thought a dialogue would trigger without you knowing, you'd probably be checking in with Anders after every quest just in case and get sick of his canned lines, too. As it is, you don't have to check for yourself because the game tells you.

And seeing less of Hawke's life doesn't change the fact that it seems like three years of cohabitation shouldn't be able to be summed up in a cutscene and a paragraph.

Modifié par SurelyForth, 20 juin 2011 - 05:09 .

[ipgd]

SurelyForth wrote...

You're kind of boring.

*goes in corner and hides*

Well, of course. No one with an interesting life would subject themselves to the horror that is the BSN.

Modifié par ipgd, 20 juin 2011 - 05:05 .

[tmp7704]

ipgd wrote...

I... think Garrus is kind of boring.

Modifié par tmp7704, 20 juin 2011 - 05:12 .

[CulturalGeekGirl]

BlueMew wrote...

Hm, I don't know if I'm bothered by the fact that Hawke is ignorant of anything that happened before DA2, or if it makes the romance less special. There's plenty of people who haven't played Awakening, too. I don't own a copy of my own, btw.

You get a good look and feel at how Anders was pre-Justice from some of his remarks and conversations, enough to maybe regret what he has become way before he does anything that makes you say Goddamnit Anders!

I guess it's just personal.

Here's the thing... I think that knowing him from Awakenings may in some way color your negative views on the Justice/Anders situation so they're less "oh, what has he lost?" and more "Hmm, this is an interesting development, tragic for both of them personally, but perhaps it has created something... even greater than the sum of its parts." Hawke has no reference point for Justice beyond Vengeance's appearances.

I certainly wasn't implying that it makes the relationship less special. People who weren't Awakenings fangirls actually don't have the disconnect of having to separate player-character knowledge. They meet Anders in the same way that Hawke meets him, and if they didn't play Awakenings beforehand, all that information is just backstory.

As Shepard, with Garrus, I feel like I've seen all his inner workings. I know this guy, If he needs something, I have all the information required to deliver it.

With Anders, I, as the Origins and Awakenings player, can see ways to fix or help him that my Hawke can't possibly know about or understand with the information she's given, and that frustrates the heck out of me. I also know Justice, in a way that Hawke really can't be expected to. So while she (the character) is there stumbling around trying to deal with this man she loves who seems to be going crazy, she's missing all these opportunities to direct or support him that I (the player) can see clearly.

Structurally, Garrus is less difficult. Everything I know, Shepard knows, and everything Shepard knows, I know. With Anders, they give you all this friendship background, and make you play a character who makes all her decisions without the benefit of that knowledge. It's great for tragedy, but it feels a bit bad for... I wish there were a solid word for a romance that is neither a tragedy nor a happy ending, but whatever that is. That thing.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 20 juin 2011 - 05:16 .

[highcastle]

SurelyForth wrote...

@Highcastle I know the only reason why I wasn't running down tto the clinic to check for more dialogue with Anders is because conversations are their own quests in DA2. If you thought a dialogue would trigger without you knowing, you'd probably be checking in with Anders after every quest just in case and get sick of his canned lines, too. As it is, you don't have to check for yourself because the game tells you.

Absolutely. But this one little mechanic allowed me not to resent the characters. It was a small thing, and it probably would have helped me like ME2 if it'd been implemented. Then again, maybe not. Because at least DA2 front-loaded more conversations. Using Anders as an example since he's the topic of this thread, we talk to him during his introduction, during Tranquility, after Tranquility, and then again later in the Act. In ME2, we talk to NPCs during their introduction which leads directly to their quest instead, then immediately after. And that's it. You pretty much have to wait until the second disk to talk to them again. And then, unless romancing them, you're lucky if you get 2 conversations. 

And seeing less of Hawke's life doesn't change the fact that it seems like three years of cohabitation shouldn't be able to be summed up in a cutscene and a paragraph.

It sounds like part of the problem here may be the time-skips. The game dumps you into the middle of the relationship assuming Hawke knows what's going on (because s/he does), but the player doesn't. So it can be jarring, I guess. But the alternative would have been a long-winded "as you know" style dialogue. I'd rather the game just keep moving and let me fill in those gaps with my personal headcanon. But that's just my personal preference. I'm not saying DA2 did it perfectly, but I still think it did it pretty damn well.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

(Bah, this thread picks up and gets into an awesome discussion just as I'm about to start a phone interview. Will be back in a few hours. Don't make all the points without me!)

[YamiSnuffles]

SurelyForth wrote...


@Highcastle I know the only reason why I wasn't running down tto the clinic to check for more dialogue with Anders is because conversations are their own quests in DA2. If you thought a dialogue would trigger without you knowing, you'd probably be checking in with Anders after every quest just in case and get sick of his canned lines, too. As it is, you don't have to check for yourself because the game tells you.

And seeing less of Hawke's life doesn't change the fact that it seems like three years of cohabitation shouldn't be able to be summed up in a cutscene and a paragraph.

Since I went into my first run unspoiled, this is actually exactly what I did until I figured out he only talked when I had a "talk to Anders" quest. It drove me insane. Then when I figured out it was a quest system... it felt a little weird for a while. Conversations sort of lose that conversational quality when it becomes some sort of mission to talk to your companions. That's why the first time around, the dialogue I most enjoyed were the surprise bits. When Anders would pipe up during a quest or the comforting scene after Leandra's death. These ended up feeling a bit more natural.

I guess what I'm saying is, while I do like the way they set up the DA2 conversation system, it felt a bit less real my first time through. Especially after talking to Alistair whenever I felt like it as opposed to talking to Anders whenever a little quest marker was over his head.

Oh! Also, since you're forced to have conversations at a certain times, it leads to weird things like Hawke not giving Anders a key to the estate until Act 3. Had things been a little more like DA:O I could have chosen to give it to him after the relationship had gotten to a certain point (so, pretty much at least by Act 2).

[ReiSilver]

I've recently been thinking about character archs and how one of the big things that bothered me about DA2 Anders is that his big character change from flippant smart-ass to Justice/Anders happens off screen. People call it character development but I can't give that much credit when we don't see the development or the situations/choices immediately pertaining to the big character change.
I told myself a while ago that it's no good getting frustrated with it since Anders/Justice becomes integral to the plot in Act 3 in order for the Chantry to blow up and force the final confrontation. (It at least stops me from grousing about
Anders having to change at all.)
But I've been thinking while reading some of the recent posts here that maybe it didn't have to happen this way.
We know Anders had a habit of escaping confining situations and still helping people while he did so. Keeping the events of the prequel short story the same Anders could decide to pull a disappearing act, the same way he did during his time at the circle, once the Templar Warden starts making his life with the Wardens miserable.
He could still go to Kirkwall since it's one place that's easy to hide from the Wardens, while there he may not open a clinic but he'd still find a way of helping Fereldan refugees here and there in a way less likely to be found out. While there he would get in touch with Karl, events still go as in DA2, meeting Hawke, getting Hawke to help, except Karl being made tranquil becomes the defining moment that makes Anders agree to merge with Justice for the sake of all mages.
This way Hawke gets to know Anders before Justice, the players get to see Anders go from how we knew him in Awakening to getting to the point where he'd accept a merge with Justice and then see and react to the change. This not only helps players who knew Anders in Awakening, to not have the 'who are you? You're not my Anders!'  reaction but also lets Hawke see more of Anders, maybe even more of Justice depending on how a merge actually happens. Ideally you could go through the whole of act 1 with non-merged Anders, have a conversation about what happened with Karl, how the circle here is even more like a prison/has less of an illusion of not being a prison, then the Fereldan circle, to show Anders growing change and then just before (or maybe -in-) the deep roads Justice shows up and Anders agrees to become his host (maybe Hawke even gets the choice to ineffectually tell him no?).
What do you guys think?

Modifié par ReiSilver, 20 juin 2011 - 05:31 .

[highcastle]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Here's the thing... I think that knowing him from Awakenings may in some way color your negative views on the Justice/Anders situation so they're less "oh, what has he lost?" and more "Hmm, this is an interesting development, tragic for both of them personally, but perhaps it has created something... even greater than the sum of its parts." Hawke has no reference point for Justice beyond Vengeance's appearances.

I certainly wasn't implying that it makes the relationship less special. People who weren't Awakenings fangirls actually don't have the disconnect of having to separate player-character knowledge. They meet Anders in the same way that Hawke meets him, and if they didn't play Awakenings beforehand, all that information is just backstory.

As Shepard, with Garrus, I feel like I've seen all his inner workings. I know this guy, If he needs something, I have all the information required to deliver it.

With Anders, I, as the Origins and Awakenings player, can see ways to fix or help him that my Hawke can't possibly know about or understand with the information she's given, and that frustrates the heck out of me. I also know Justice, in a way that Hawke really can't be expected to. So while she (the character) is there stumbling around trying to deal with this man she loves who seems to be going crazy, she's missing all these opportunities to direct or support him that I (the player) can see clearly.

Structurally, Garrus is less difficult. Everything I know, Shepard knows, and everything Shepard knows, I know. With Anders, they give you all this friendship background, and make you play a character who makes all her decisions without the benefit of that knowledge. It's great for tragedy, but it feels a bit bad for... I wish there were a solid word for a romance that is neither a tragedy nor a happy ending, but whatever that is. That thing.

Maybe it's a difference in playstyles. Personally, I don't want to play myself or even someone close to myself. I spend enough time in my head as it is, I'd like to RP someone different.  So I have no problem distancing what I know from what my character knows, and I try to keep meta knowledge out of it. In that respect--since I'm used to making decisions based solely on the information my character has--I never really felt frustrated or lacking in anything.

You can also look at it the same way as watching a movie that has multiple perspectives. In some cases, the audience is going to have information the character doesn't. If they had access to that same knowledge, they'd probably behave much differently. A good example of this would be Match Point, in which we see one character's actions when everyone else is oblivious. Do we feel frustrated with the others for continuing to interact with Jonathon Rhys Meyers in the same manner? Or do we understand that they're in the dark about it, and thus appreciate their reactions for what they are?

It's easier to do in film, I think, because there's not any input from the audience. You have no agency no matter how hard you yell at the screen. In a game, there is player input. Quite a bit of it in an RPG. But that doesn't change the fact that you yourself are not making the decisions. Hawke is. As long as you can keep that mentality, you shouldn't feel frustrated by meta knowledge.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

highcastle wrote...

It's easier to do in film, I think, because there's not any input from the audience. You have no agency no matter how hard you yell at the screen. In a game, there is player input. Quite a bit of it in an RPG. But that doesn't change the fact that you yourself are not making the decisions. Hawke is. As long as you can keep that mentality, you shouldn't feel frustrated by meta knowledge.

I'm not frustrated because I'm not able to separate it, or because I'm not able to roleplay someone different. It's just a specific kind of storyteling I'm not as fond of... the tragedy where everyone can see the obvious ways to fix it except for the characters involved. It's the difference between Romeo and Juliet and Macbeth. Macbeth is a freight train: it is going to end up at pain station and there is pretty much nothing anyone could do to stop it. Romeo and Juliet is a series of increasingly annoying miscommunications that could have been solved at any moment by any single character in the play having a god damned lick of sense.

I know that this particular issue is simply a matter of taste, though.

[maxernst]

SurelyForth wrote...

It sounds like part of the problem here may be the time-skips. The game dumps you into the middle of the relationship assuming Hawke knows what's going on (because s/he does), but the player doesn't. So it can be jarring, I guess. But the alternative would have been a long-winded "as you know" style dialogue. I'd rather the game just keep moving and let me fill in those gaps with my personal headcanon. But that's just my personal preference. I'm not saying DA2 did it perfectly, but I still think it did it pretty damn well.

The time skips are an issue in other ways as well.  At the beginning of Act 3, Orsino & Meredith are arguing and I'm thinking:  I have no idea what's been going on in the city the past three years, how can I venture an opinion on this conflict, unless I'm just reflexively pro-mage or pro-templar?

With Anders, it influenced my playthrough because for me, the Dissent quest felt like:   this person that I went on the Deep Roads expedition three years ago (because that was really the only time I used him) has contacted me for help.  I agree, mostly because I'm concerned about Bethany, but then he goes psycho and kills an innocent mage.  Maybe I'm supposed to think of him as being a constant associate over that time, but I don't experience it that way.

Modifié par maxernst, 20 juin 2011 - 05:33 .

[highcastle]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

highcastle wrote...

It's easier to do in film, I think, because there's not any input from the audience. You have no agency no matter how hard you yell at the screen. In a game, there is player input. Quite a bit of it in an RPG. But that doesn't change the fact that you yourself are not making the decisions. Hawke is. As long as you can keep that mentality, you shouldn't feel frustrated by meta knowledge.

I'm not frustrated because I'm not able to separate it, or because I'm not able to roleplay someone different. It's just a specific kind of storyteling I'm not as fond of... the tragedy where everyone can see the obvious ways to fix it except for the characters involved. It's the difference between Romeo and Juliet and Macbeth. Macbeth is a freight train: it is going to end up at pain station and there is pretty much nothing anyone could do to stop it. Romeo and Juliet is a series of increasingly annoying miscommunications that could have been solved at any moment by any single character in the play having a god damned lick of sense.

I know that this particular issue is simply a matter of taste, though.

Hmm. Admittedly, that's troubling, but I don't see the game as limiting the characters you can play. You can play Hawke as someone genuinely naive and just going along with Anders, never questioning him on the Chantry quest. You can play him as someone who trusts Anders to an extent, but still calls foul when he gets too secretive. You can spend the whole game telling him his actions are suspect. You can mix and match any of these approaches.

Of course, at the end of the day, Anders himself still does what he feels needs to be done. He was always going to do this, and I don't think anything Hawke could have theoretically said on either the friendship or rivalry path was going to turn him aside from it. Perhaps that's why I'm not frustrated, then. To use your metaphor, I see it as a Macbeth tragedy where nothing's going to turn Anders' aside at this point.

Alright, I really need to log off to get my latest chapter up and work on my essays. G'night, Anders Thread!

[Amondra]

maxernst wrote...

SurelyForth wrote...

It sounds like part of the problem here may be the time-skips. The game dumps you into the middle of the relationship assuming Hawke knows what's going on (because s/he does), but the player doesn't. So it can be jarring, I guess. But the alternative would have been a long-winded "as you know" style dialogue. I'd rather the game just keep moving and let me fill in those gaps with my personal headcanon. But that's just my personal preference. I'm not saying DA2 did it perfectly, but I still think it did it pretty damn well.

The time skips are an issue in other ways as well.  At the beginning of Act 3, Orsino & Meredith are arguing and I'm thinking:  I have no idea what's been going on in the city the past three years, how can I venture an opinion on this conflict, unless I'm just reflexively pro-mage or pro-templar?

With Anders, it influenced my playthrough because for me, the Dissent quest felt like:   this person that I went on the Deep Roads expedition three years ago (because that was really the only time I used him) has contacted me for help.  I agree, mostly because I'm concerned about Bethany, but then he goes psycho and kills an innocent mage.  Maybe I'm supposed to think of him as being a constant associate over that time, but I don't experience it that way.

The codexes tell you what happens with every time skip, and each companion has one for each time skip as well.

Also Anders won't kill the mage if you use the star option(my boyfriend was livid when I didn't tell him that lol)

Wow  you made through the game without using him? >_> Maybe I was hard pressed for him because I went Reaver.  I just know on Hard mode I Anders was my best friend.

[leggywillow]

ipgd wrote...

I... think Garrus is kind of boring.

Well... I don't think Joker/EDI are OTP!!!  SO THERE!

I don't know whether to kiss you or kill you.  You are everything I hate.  ::makes out with ipgd::

[maxernst]

Amondra wrote...

maxernst wrote...

SurelyForth wrote...

It sounds like part of the problem here may be the time-skips. The game dumps you into the middle of the relationship assuming Hawke knows what's going on (because s/he does), but the player doesn't. So it can be jarring, I guess. But the alternative would have been a long-winded "as you know" style dialogue. I'd rather the game just keep moving and let me fill in those gaps with my personal headcanon. But that's just my personal preference. I'm not saying DA2 did it perfectly, but I still think it did it pretty damn well.

The time skips are an issue in other ways as well.  At the beginning of Act 3, Orsino & Meredith are arguing and I'm thinking:  I have no idea what's been going on in the city the past three years, how can I venture an opinion on this conflict, unless I'm just reflexively pro-mage or pro-templar?

With Anders, it influenced my playthrough because for me, the Dissent quest felt like:   this person that I went on the Deep Roads expedition three years ago (because that was really the only time I used him) has contacted me for help.  I agree, mostly because I'm concerned about Bethany, but then he goes psycho and kills an innocent mage.  Maybe I'm supposed to think of him as being a constant associate over that time, but I don't experience it that way.

The codexes tell you what happens with every time skip, and each companion has one for each time skip as well.

Also Anders won't kill the mage if you use the star option(my boyfriend was livid when I didn't tell him that lol)

Wow  you made through the game without using him? >_> Maybe I was hard pressed for him because I went Reaver.  I just know on Hard mode I Anders was my best friend.

If you haven't been using him regularly and pushed his friendship/rivalry points, you won't have the star option (and I didn't).  And even if I had used him regularly, I might not have.  I'm stuck in the middle of the spectrum with Merrill, even though I used her throughout Acts 2 & early act 3 (haven't gone on A New Path yet).  I hate the friendship/rivalry system. 

Besides, the star option thing is total metagaming unless you just happen to want to use that option.  The game more or less hints that it gives you better outcomes, which I find a bit annoying.

Modifié par maxernst, 20 juin 2011 - 06:15 .