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[YamiSnuffles]

Time for a bit of self-promotion. Another Anders/Hawke commission, this time for SurelyForth.


I love me some Wil and Anders.

EDIT: Oh, what a convenient TOP. Now I wish I had something of more substance to say, though. Um... go read Maps and Legends yo!

Modifié par YamiSnuffles, 20 juin 2011 - 06:51 .

[DreamerM]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...
Anders is my favorite character, but I almost prefer the parts of his romance that occur off-screen to the limited narrative presented onscreen, if that makes any sense.

I think this, more then anything, is a perfect illustration of how Dragon Age 2, despite being a fantastic, gripping, exciting, emotionally-charged game......... kind of falls short of it's own potential. In-game, Hawke spends years getting to know these characters, doing everything from drinking to killing dragons. They say a real friend is someone who has seen you at your absolute worst, knows all your most appalling qualities, and likes you anyway. The kind of bond where Fenris will defend mages because YOU ask him to, or where Marril will make you promise to kill her if she becomes an abomination, goes to show how deep the bonds between these people must be.

It's too bad that, save for a few exceptions, we don't actually get to SEE these bonds being formed. Maybe it's just me, but I felt more like "a summery of what your relationship is like" then like an actual conversation you're having at that moment. I feel more like I'm experiencing an amalgamation of what must have been several conversations over the course of maybe months then like I'm actually talking to this person right now.

....this may just be me. I better go sketch something before someone starts thowing fireballs.

[Reflection Muse]

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...

YamiSnuffles wrote...

Time for a bit of self-promotion. Another Anders/Hawke commission, this time for SurelyForth.

*snip*

That's a lovely picture.

Oh, is it time for self-promotion? That's awesome, I love promoting myself.
This time I've actually made something. But without colors Like the poor clown from PowerPuff Girls. Woe.

Both of these pieces are awesome, seriously. There's such a sweetness and tenderness to yours Yami. And Queen-Of-Stuff I seriously love this piece of yours. It's heartwarming to see our beloved apostate in such a relaxed, blissful state. Really lovely, both of you.

[DreamerM]

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...

I whole-heartedly agree, on all accounts. I love Dragon Age 2, but that is mostly because of the companions - Anders, Merrill, Isabela, Varric especially - I may even like them better than I liked the crew in Origins, but it's frustrating, because the game could have been so much more than it is. And it isn't. Seeing wasted potential makes me a sad puppy.

I don't think anyone would ever call Dragon Age 2 a bad game. It just isn't. In fact, it's a very very good game.... that could have been a legendary one.

Dragon Age: Origins is known by all smart people as one of the best games every made...ever. Dragon Age 2 could have built on that. If it had, it'd be a landmark right now.

[YamiSnuffles]

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...


Oh, is it time for self-promotion? That's awesome, I love promoting myself.
This time I've actually made something. But without colors Like the poor clown from PowerPuff Girls. Woe.

-snip-

Oh! I just love this picture. You have an awesome style. Also, yay for lanky Anders and bag kitten.

EDIT: Also, thanks for the compliments peeps.

Modifié par YamiSnuffles, 20 juin 2011 - 07:29 .

[CulturalGeekGirl]

highcastle wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

highcastle wrote...

It's easier to do in film, I think, because there's not any input from the audience. You have no agency no matter how hard you yell at the screen. In a game, there is player input. Quite a bit of it in an RPG. But that doesn't change the fact that you yourself are not making the decisions. Hawke is. As long as you can keep that mentality, you shouldn't feel frustrated by meta knowledge.

I'm not frustrated because I'm not able to separate it, or because I'm not able to roleplay someone different. It's just a specific kind of storyteling I'm not as fond of... the tragedy where everyone can see the obvious ways to fix it except for the characters involved. It's the difference between Romeo and Juliet and Macbeth. Macbeth is a freight train: it is going to end up at pain station and there is pretty much nothing anyone could do to stop it. Romeo and Juliet is a series of increasingly annoying miscommunications that could have been solved at any moment by any single character in the play having a god damned lick of sense.

I know that this particular issue is simply a matter of taste, though.

Hmm. Admittedly, that's troubling, but I don't see the game as limiting the characters you can play. You can play Hawke as someone genuinely naive and just going along with Anders, never questioning him on the Chantry quest. You can play him as someone who trusts Anders to an extent, but still calls foul when he gets too secretive. You can spend the whole game telling him his actions are suspect. You can mix and match any of these approaches.

Of course, at the end of the day, Anders himself still does what he feels needs to be done. He was always going to do this, and I don't think anything Hawke could have theoretically said on either the friendship or rivalry path was going to turn him aside from it. Perhaps that's why I'm not frustrated, then. To use your metaphor, I see it as a Macbeth tragedy where nothing's going to turn Anders' aside at this point.

Alright, I really need to log off to get my latest chapter up and work on my essays. G'night, Anders Thread!

I don't see the Chantry going up as the tragedy that could be avoided.

I see Anders' mental decline and abject self-hatred, and Hawke's feelings of betrayal and heartbreak as the tragedy that could be avoided (or at least mitigated. some mental decline and heartbreak is going to happen no matter what). "Can't you see that hating yourself is probably making it worse?" is what I want to shout at him for most of the game. And while that can happen offscreen all I want it to, it doesn't change the fact that Hawke doesn't ever say it. Hawke doesn't ever say anything that indicates s/he has a grasp of what is going on inside Anders and knows productive ways to help him with it.

One big advantage the Warden has is that she understands Justice on some level. There's no logical reason for a non-mage Hawke to have any tolerance for/understanding of Justice/Vengeance. The fact that Hawke can't push Anders for more information on it is frustrating, because I (the player) already have more information on it, and unless Hawke is incurably uncurious, I'd assume that she'd try to understand (and help him understand) why Justice would go crazy and (try to) kill that mage girl, for instance. Because every other time he comes out, it's pretty reasonable that he would. The mage girl is the one incident where he is concretely dangerous to someone who is innocent, and that's the kind of stuff we want to prevent. When Justice kills evil Templars who are trying to kill Anders, I am fine with that. My Hawkes are fine with that. The thing is, Anders is trying to fight and hating his merger with Justice from the start. Hawke has no reasonable foundation for understanding what Justice was like before, or how much of what is truly great about Anders now is a result of Justice.

On the subject of the romance itself, saying "you're not going to hurt me!" and "There's nothing more important than love!" isn't productive, and even without foreknowledge of the endgame, I can see that it isn't going to help Anders. I'd rather say something like "I didn't ignore your earlier warnings, I took them into account and decided you were worth it. I'm not expecting smooth sailing, but stop torturing yourself. I signed on to deal with what comes. If it's more than I can handle, that's on me." 

Even without Awakenings, it's hard for me to roleplay a character who romances Anders, stays true to him, but doesn't try to do anything to productively treat his "unique situation". I can roleplay a character who takes his warnings seriously and avoids him, or I can roleplay a character who takes his warnings seriously and thinks she can deal with whatever crazy he's slinging... but I find it difficult to get into the headspace of a character who helplessly watches his mental decline while not being able to figure out anything productive to do to help him. But the only choices Hawke seems to have are either "Hurrah mages, I support most of what you are doing" or "let's snark and not address our problems," or "you are an abomination!" none of which are helpful or what I want to do.

This is the only BW game I've played so far where my amoral character is the most in-line with the in-game plot development and character interactions. She has no interest in the fade or Anders' merger beyond how it helps his combat abilities or affects his capability to be with her. She unthinkingly decides that mages who aren't on her side are dangerous and doesn't really consider the issue too much further. She has no problem with criticizing Anders about the decision to merge with Justice, and is constantly blaming his mental state on his posession. There's never a time when I feel like her inconsiderate, flippant attitude is underserved by the lines and situations she's given.

I don't know if any of this makes any sense, but it's already far too long. This is why I read Anders relationship fanfic, because the ways the fic characters deal with these issues often feels more real and productive than what I see in-game.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 20 juin 2011 - 08:07 .

[Reflection Muse]

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...
Thank you both so much! I'm a little self-concious, but I feel all squishy on the inside now.

You're very welcome! Do you have more? I really love your art style. It has a beautiful art nouveau style to it and reminds me a little of Akihiro Yamada's art.

Modifié par Reflection Muse, 20 juin 2011 - 08:09 .

[Reflection Muse]

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...
Awww I do have an account on Deviant Art, in fact. There's not a whole lot there, and it's been ages since I last updated it, but here it is; http://evilbunnyking.deviantart.com/

Thank you! I iz stalking you on DA now.

Modifié par Reflection Muse, 20 juin 2011 - 08:25 .

[DreamerM]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

I don't know if any of this makes any sense, but it's already far too long. This is why I read Anders relationship fanfic, because the ways the fic characters deal with these issues often feels more real and productive than what I see in-game.

And I think this, in a nutshell, is why this game cost Dragon Age some fans, and lost Bioware some credibility.

However you chose to play Origins, you could break down your character's attitude into a reasonable response to the circumstances that made them. A city elf who's wedding day became a bloodbath might become ruthless and unforgiving of any sign of weakness. A dwarven princess given everything right up until the moment she was cast out and left to die might become ruthless too, but also might have her eyes opened and become more compassonate. A mage who was never supposed to know anything but the Tower, suddenly thrust into the real world, might need to learn basic survival skills the hard way.

If Hawke has any reason for being the way he/she is, it's kept offscreen. Instead of building and changing your character's personality as you go, getting to know them, and through them, the NPCs that surround you, you're picking between three arbitrary, pre-made personalities that don't meld well and don't lead to deeper understanding of the people around you.

This is where the complaints about the game feeling "rushed" come from. We needed more conversations with the NPCs, more main plot quests, more conversation options then "Nice, Snarky, Mean" and more answers about why people react the way they react.

[maxernst]

DreamerM wrote...

However you chose to play Origins, you could break down your character's attitude into a reasonable response to the circumstances that made them. A city elf who's wedding day became a bloodbath might become ruthless and unforgiving of any sign of weakness. A dwarven princess given everything right up until the moment she was cast out and left to die might become ruthless too, but also might have her eyes opened and become more compassonate. A mage who was never supposed to know anything but the Tower, suddenly thrust into the real world, might need to learn basic survival skills the hard way.

If Hawke has any reason for being the way he/she is, it's kept offscreen. Instead of building and changing your character's personality as you go, getting to know them, and through them, the NPCs that surround you, you're picking between three arbitrary, pre-made personalities that don't meld well and don't lead to deeper understanding of the people around you.

This is where the complaints about the game feeling "rushed" come from. We needed more conversations with the NPCs, more main plot quests, more conversation options then "Nice, Snarky, Mean" and more answers about why people react the way they react.

Yes.  The most reasonable interpretation's of Hawke I've seen have painted him as either a self-indulgent playboy or mired in depression over his lost family in order to account for his failure to attempt more positive action earlier.  But while I have no doubt those characters could be written into good stories, they don't appeal to me enough as my wardens so I don't think I'll be writing any DA2 fanfic per se.

I was contemplating having Alistair stop by Kirkwall on his way back from Weisshaupt in my DA:O fanfic and try and persuade him to return to the Wardens.  The timing would be right after he's killed the mage in Dissent and my Hawke has dumped him.  I think I'd need to do a more Anders-sympathetic playthrough to get to know him better to write that scene, however.

Modifié par maxernst, 20 juin 2011 - 08:36 .

[highcastle]

ElleMullineux wrote...
I feel entirely the opposite. Whilst I enjoyed DAO I would never have entered fandom for it - there was simply enough of it available in game to satisfy me... so I didn't get the DLC, I didn't buy the expansion, because I had no need to. I'd spent my obsession with the game after doing all the available origins.

DA2 on the other hand has suckered me in massively because of the gaps and the narrative space. Because it requires me to interact with the story on a much more fundamental level, and it has left me wanting a lot more in a good way. Not only do I derrive massive amounts of pleasure from this type of story-telling, it makes good financial sense for BW. In me at least they've gained someone who will spent money on DLC and expansions who wouldn't have before. Hell, I had to go and buy DAA because of DA2. For everyone they've upset with this direction there will be people they've won over.

The one thing I think they did really well, and carried it over from DAO was the ability to romance a character that was central to the plot. They upped the stakes even more by making DA2 more truly Anders story from Hawke's point of view, which I love. The subverting and the betrayl of the players power echo'd brilliantly with Hawke's relative lack of power in game.

There is very little about this game that I dislike, and I think it was a natural progression from DAO, as well as a vast improvement on it.

And well... there was Anders too.

I'm just dropping in (and procrastinating) to say: this. Pretty much exactly this.

Granted, I did pick up DAA and a couple of the DLCs that interested me, but not all of them. Origins was a great game, truly. But I wasn't invested in my Warden the same way I was in Hawke. I felt like the Warden's emotions were left largely up in the air, and events that should have made some kind of emotional impact (Howe's death for Couslands, returning to the Alienage for city elves, etc) just fell flat. I felt nothing, and I had a hard time expressing how I felt the characters should feel with the dialogue options in the game. Add that to the fact that none of the NPCs really seemed to care how my Warden felt, I was left with the impression that emotions weren't super important in DAO.

Contrast that with DA2, where Hawke's emotions are on center stage. Half the game is him reacting to various events. I get that people want agency and maybe disliked the lack of it, but to me that was one of the joys of the game. It was a deconstruction of many typical RPG concepts, and indeed even the notion of the epic or the Hero's Journey. More than that, NPCs treated Hawke like a person. His emotions mattered. They drove the game. Thus, I cared very deeply for Hawke, his family, his friends, his relationships, etc.

[maxernst]

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...

It's interesting to see how much of a divide this game has created.

For me, a big difference lies in how defined each of the protagonists are. In games like Oblivion you have absolutely no connection to the game world at all - you can imagine any background you like, but it will never be acknowledged by any of the NPC's, you have no friends, no family and you might as well have been non-existent before the game starts. The protagonist isn't a character - just an avatar, which I don't like. Origins struck a happy chord within me, because the Warden has a set place in the world she is in, and a past history without being so defined that I couldn't shape her in just about anyway I wanted. In DA2, because of the voices and the three personality sets, I feel far more restricted, and Hawke doesn't quite feel mine in the same vein that the Warden does.

This.  Exactly.  Although it's not just the voices, but also that the game sometimes forces my Hawke to say and do things I have a hard time understanding.  While it's true that the Warden seems a bit emotionally repressed, I found it easy enough to handwave his lack of emotional statement at Ostagar by saying he was still numb with shock from his family's death.  I thought the cut sequences worked better when I couldn't see my Warden's face because then I could project my emotions onto him.  

[CalJones]

Voices do make a big difference. I can happily play a male or female Shepard - I like the voices for both. But I've only managed to play male Hawkes thus far. I tried rolling a female today but her voice grated on me so much I wanted to punch her head off before I'd even reached Kirkwall (I am female, incidentally - albeit a blokeish one). I know it's a matter of preference, but having a voiced protagonist only works if you can stand listening to the voice. If you can't, it effectively ruins the game.

As far as the Elder Scrolls go, I rather like having a blank slate. I'm a little older (44), having been gaming since the days of Rogue and NetHack, and I get a bit miffed at having to play teens and early 20 somethings. Just for once it's nice to play someone a bit older (one of the reasons I like the Witcher, actually - Geralt is definitely not "my" character, but he is a cynical old sod and I appreciate that).

[Jon Jern_]

I wished I enjoyed DA2 as much as you guys, I really, truly, honestly did. ;-;

[kromify]

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...

It's interesting to see how much of a divide this game has created.

For me, a big difference lies in how defined each of the protagonists are. In games like Oblivion you have absolutely no connection to the game world at all - you can imagine any background you like, but it will never be acknowledged by any of the NPC's, you have no friends, no family and you might as well have been non-existent before the game starts. The protagonist isn't a character - just an avatar, which I don't like. Origins struck a happy chord within me, because the Warden has a set place in the world she is in, and a past history without being so defined that I couldn't shape her in just about anyway I wanted. In DA2, because of the voices and the three personality sets, I feel far more restricted, and Hawke doesn't quite feel mine in the same vein that the Warden does.

totally. i loved the different ways in which the warden could be seen by society and her reactions to it, and going to where she's recognised on a personal level. the origin stories were the strongest part of dao, so i really hope they come back in da3. i couldn't help but feel a particular motivation with different wardens. (i quickly binned the meek and mild ones though. they couldn't hack being a warden; i couldn't see what duncan saw in them. which is a bit like diplo!hawke!!)

[highcastle]

maxernst wrote...

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...

It's interesting to see how much of a divide this game has created.

For me, a big difference lies in how defined each of the protagonists are. In games like Oblivion you have absolutely no connection to the game world at all - you can imagine any background you like, but it will never be acknowledged by any of the NPC's, you have no friends, no family and you might as well have been non-existent before the game starts. The protagonist isn't a character - just an avatar, which I don't like. Origins struck a happy chord within me, because the Warden has a set place in the world she is in, and a past history without being so defined that I couldn't shape her in just about anyway I wanted. In DA2, because of the voices and the three personality sets, I feel far more restricted, and Hawke doesn't quite feel mine in the same vein that the Warden does.

This.  Exactly.  Although it's not just the voices, but also that the game sometimes forces my Hawke to say and do things I have a hard time understanding.  While it's true that the Warden seems a bit emotionally repressed, I found it easy enough to handwave his lack of emotional statement at Ostagar by saying he was still numb with shock from his family's death.  I thought the cut sequences worked better when I couldn't see my Warden's face because then I could project my emotions onto him.  

See, I feel the opposite. The voices helped Hawke feel more like a character with unique emotions and a personality, and less like an avatar which is only there to let you, the player, experience the world. Origins still felt like the Warden was some weird amalgamut of character/avatar. A jack of all trades and master of none, as it were. I think part of this was not just due to the lack of a voice, but also due to lack of any facial expressions. The Warden stood there static and never emoting, a blank wall for you to project your own feelings on, but never have them acknowledged.

Hawke is the opposite. Hawke has feelings. You can control them, you can choose when and what's expressed, but the very fact something is expressed automatically makes it more engaging to me. I feel like Hawke is a person with a fully developed life, interests, and relationships. The Warden's just a blank slate, and I don't get attached to those (same reason why I dislike games like Oblivion).

[ForgeDark]

ElleMullineux wrote...

DreamerM wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

I don't know if any of this makes any sense, but it's already far too long. This is why I read Anders relationship fanfic, because the ways the fic characters deal with these issues often feels more real and productive than what I see in-game.

And I think this, in a nutshell, is why this game cost Dragon Age some fans, and lost Bioware some credibility.

However you chose to play Origins, you could break down your character's attitude into a reasonable response to the circumstances that made them. A city elf who's wedding day became a bloodbath might become ruthless and unforgiving of any sign of weakness. A dwarven princess given everything right up until the moment she was cast out and left to die might become ruthless too, but also might have her eyes opened and become more compassonate. A mage who was never supposed to know anything but the Tower, suddenly thrust into the real world, might need to learn basic survival skills the hard way.

If Hawke has any reason for being the way he/she is, it's kept offscreen. Instead of building and changing your character's personality as you go, getting to know them, and through them, the NPCs that surround you, you're picking between three arbitrary, pre-made personalities that don't meld well and don't lead to deeper understanding of the people around you.

This is where the complaints about the game feeling "rushed" come from. We needed more conversations with the NPCs, more main plot quests, more conversation options then "Nice, Snarky, Mean" and more answers about why people react the way they react.

I feel entirely the opposite. Whilst I enjoyed DAO I would never have entered fandom for it - there was simply enough of it available in game to satisfy me... so I didn't get the DLC, I didn't buy the expansion, because I had no need to. I'd spent my obsession with the game after doing all the available origins.

DA2 on the other hand has suckered me in massively because of the gaps and the narrative space. Because it requires me to interact with the story on a much more fundamental level, and it has left me wanting a lot more in a good way. Not only do I derrive massive amounts of pleasure from this type of story-telling, it makes good financial sense for BW. In me at least they've gained someone who will spent money on DLC and expansions who wouldn't have before. Hell, I had to go and buy DAA because of DA2. For everyone they've upset with this direction there will be people they've won over.

The one thing I think they did really well, and carried it over from DAO was the ability to romance a character that was central to the plot. They upped the stakes even more by making DA2 more truly Anders story from Hawke's point of view, which I love. The subverting and the betrayl of the players power echo'd brilliantly with Hawke's relative lack of power in game.

There is very little about this game that I dislike, and I think it was a natural progression from DAO, as well as a vast improvement on it.

And well... there was Anders too.

I agree, I actually think the conversations in DAO are far more forced than in DA2. In DAO characters barely react to the things you do, and the conversations are just a get to know me session. The character quests in DA2 really made the game for me because at the end of them your companions cared about what had happened. Your actions have far more effect on companions, and I felt far more involved in the story because of it. 

Then again I've always played a mage who hates the Circle, so I was hooked right from the start in DA2 with the hints about the circle. I loved that the story wasn't just given to me on a plate from the start like it was in DAO. Whereas my boyfriend hated the aimlessness of it and stopped playing after an hour. And of course, I loved the Anders story - definitely hooked me in! 

I wouldn't want them to go back to the way companions were in DAO: I liked them, but this is far better. I hated that I could accidentally start talking to someone in the middle of the deep roads, I always had to reload if they revealed something important to me while I was in the middle of a tunnel with everyone else around. Yes I'd want more interaction with companions in DA2, and the option to talk to them for no real reason in their homes like in camp but I'm always going to want more interaction since its the main reason I play the game  I'll play oblivion, but it doesn't get me hooked because I don't feel any connection to the character, I've never understood why people like that game so much especially from a roleplaying aspect

[ademska]

ElleMullineux wrote...
DA2 on the other hand has suckered me in massively because of the gaps and the narrative space. Because it requires me to interact with the story on a much more fundamental level, and it has left me wanting a lot more in a good way. Not only do I derrive massive amounts of pleasure from this type of story-telling, it makes good financial sense for BW. In me at least they've gained someone who will spent money on DLC and expansions who wouldn't have before. Hell, I had to go and buy DAA because of DA2. For everyone they've upset with this direction there will be people they've won over.

yes, yes, and yes.

mass effect is a series with very little narrative gaps and what i consider to be largely flawless storytelling, and as a result i cannot get into the fandom.  origins also has no narrative gaps, it explores the warden relationships as fully as possible, and consequently if i write fic it doesn't involve the warden.

i can't delve into my imagination and fit little canon puzzle pieces together to weave stories, because everything there is to say has already been said.

meanwhile, in da2 land, i've written 15,000 words in the span of a couple of weeks, which is completely unprecedented for me, all pertaining to filling in the gaps left by the narrative.

a complete game that leaves nothing wanting is great, but the only reason people clamor for mass effect dlc is because the story isn't finished yet.  when mass effect ends, so too will people's capacity to give a damn. pure potential is not a bad thing, at least as far as fandom is concerned -- it just makes the creating experience all the more exciting.

highcastle wrote...
Contrast that with DA2, where Hawke's emotions are on center stage. Half the game is him reacting to various events. I get that people want agency and maybe disliked the lack of it, but to me that was one of the joys of the game. It was a deconstruction of many typical RPG concepts, and indeed even the notion of the epic or the Hero's Journey. More than that, NPCs treated Hawke like a person. His emotions mattered. They drove the game. Thus, I cared very deeply for Hawke, his family, his friends, his relationships, etc.

i think this actually touches on the core reason for a lot of the divide between people who prefer one system over the other.

the warden is completely customizable. you can shape and mold him or her from any background into any character, and the luscious dialogue options aren't limiting. it's a game built for people who want the ultimate role-playing experience.

da2, on the other hand, gives us hawke. hawke's gender and class is customizable, yes, but he/she has a defined background, a family -- even, technically, a face. his/her personality varies, as do his/her political opinons, but the overall character still fits within a paradigm.  part of this is merely the by-product of playing a character in a low fantasy whose actions do not directly affect the entire world, but part of it is that hawke, like it or not, is a person written to behave in specific, limited ways.

i think the fact that you play through the intro with a set appearance that cannot be altered is the biggest drive home for me.  hawke is a character, not a construct. you can interpret, and to some extent play, him or her differently, but he's not supposed to be an analogue of the warden.

i like pre-defined protagonists and linear narratives, i like getting into heads and figuring out plots and reconciling my personal ideas with the confines of the canon, so i don't count this is a negative point at all... but i can see why many do.

edit: CGG, you raise an excellent point about wishing hawke could have reacted differently to anders in several situations, particularly to the chantry, and to be honest the way i write garrett hawke he tends to feel similarly to your canon hawke, BUT, the reaction hawke actually has in-game, the way i see it, is just part of the character of hawke.  half the fun of fic is reconciling what you want with what you can't change.

Modifié par ademska, 20 juin 2011 - 10:10 .

[kromify]

origins + voiced protagonist = win?

hawke imo has only an outlook on life - which colours everything. the warden is the other way around; her origin "coloured" her and has changed her outlook.