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The Anders Thread: Flash Fic Contest! Details on Pg. 2274


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#45551
YamiSnuffles

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SurelyForth wrote...

@Queen of Stuff As I couldn't post for most of yesterday afternoon due to BSN pretty much telling me to GTFO, I missed telling you how much I adore your drawing! Everything about it is fantastic, but especially his posture and demeanor. Very lovely!

And for those interested, this week's prompt is up on Manifestos Welcome.


I never managed last week's prompt. *sobs* I vow to do better this time! I will fulfill hell out of this prompt! Anders better be ready, because I'm gonna make him do stuff... with words! :wizard:

EDIT: Why do I always get such ridiculous tops? Here, have some rivalry to go with our slightly snippy discussion recently:
Posted Image

Modifié par YamiSnuffles, 21 juin 2011 - 12:16 .


#45552
FieryDove

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DreamerM wrote...

Again, considering that you can't walk two feet in Darktown at night without getting jumped by thugs, I have a hard time believing that I'm the first person to ever walk into Anders's clinic with a weapon. Heck I'm probably not even the first that day. And if the mere sight of a sword/dagger/staff could bring out a glowy-eyed reception, don't you think Anders might put up a "Stow Yer Weapons" type sign rather then risk a best-case scenario where he blows his cover, and a worst case where he unleashes Hell in his own clinic.

And CAN Justice "warn" Anders of anything? Does Justice have like....Justicey-Sense that warns him when Player Characters approach, or something like that? I have no clue.


I'm sure Janders gets all glowy when thugs come knocking as well. We don't see it but we hear about it later.

I do believe Justice can sense trouble...or what he percieves as trouble. He is Justice...he is awesome too. All imho no facts sorry. Posted Image

#45553
elenilote

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YamiSnuffles wrote...

SurelyForth wrote...

@Queen of Stuff As I couldn't post for most of yesterday afternoon due to BSN pretty much telling me to GTFO, I missed telling you how much I adore your drawing! Everything about it is fantastic, but especially his posture and demeanor. Very lovely!

And for those interested, this week's prompt is up on Manifestos Welcome.


I never managed last week's prompt. *sobs* I vow to do better this time! I will fulfill hell out of this prompt! Anders better be ready, because I'm gonna make him do stuff... with words! :wizard:

EDIT: Why do I always get such ridiculous tops? Here, have some rivalry to go with our slightly snippy discussion recently:
Posted Image


That is awesome Yami!

#45554
kromify

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hawkette's enjoying the attention! on a side note, how many people use the yellow/amber eye colour that yami drew? they remind me far too much of morrigan and flemeth to consider as candidates for my hawkette - especially with black hair (and i generally stick to black for family aesthetics)

#45555
Guest_ElleMullineux_*

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DreamerM wrote...

<Wall of text snip>

highcastle wrote...
It's supposed to be confusing. That's. The. Point. If you want something black and white that supplies you with all the answers, trie Fable. Or, uh...Black and White.


I don't need all the answers. I don't want all the answers. But I do want some assurance that there ARE answers, that they do exist, that SOMEONE thought this through and designed it to work. That's the important thing.


Just wanted to address this one point, the writers know the answers. For the depth and level of world building there have to be parameters for the important things.
That they don't want to share them, or to tip their hat at this early point of what could feasibly be a very long running game series is their choice. It might be frustrating as hell, but I'm confident over the coming years a lot of what we're confused about will be explained, and I honestly hope they keep crafting this world, leading us down blind alleys, and leaving us with more questions than answers.
There is a difference between being purposefully vague for the sake of varied responses, and not having a clue what is going on. BW are definitely in the purposefully vague camp, and I love them for it.

Edit - Oh yeah... so Anders is neat?
Posted Image
eeee15

Modifié par ElleMullineux, 21 juin 2011 - 12:57 .


#45556
Sialater

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kromify wrote...

hawkette's enjoying the attention! on a side note, how many people use the yellow/amber eye colour that yami drew? they remind me far too much of morrigan and flemeth to consider as candidates for my hawkette - especially with black hair (and i generally stick to black for family aesthetics)



My Hawkes have green and blue eyes, so no. ;)

#45557
ashyraine

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Sialater wrote...

kromify wrote...

hawkette's enjoying the attention! on a side note, how many people use the yellow/amber eye colour that yami drew? they remind me far too much of morrigan and flemeth to consider as candidates for my hawkette - especially with black hair (and i generally stick to black for family aesthetics)



My Hawkes have green and blue eyes, so no. ;)


I like the amber colored eyes, myself :D Haven't used them on a Hawke yet, though. But there's always the black emporium! (Not that I have a secret girlcrush on Morrigan or anything.. okay I do)

#45558
YamiSnuffles

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My dude Hawke has those amber eyes. They make him look rather... hawkish, so I like it. He has brown hair (and he's a dude) so he escapes from looking too Flemethy. Since his Amell cousin romanced Morrigan, family resemblance might be weird.

My Andersmancing lady Hawke has blue eyes though (see, I totally brought it back to Anders).

@AshyRaine- I also have a girlcrush on Morrigan. :wub:

Modifié par YamiSnuffles, 21 juin 2011 - 01:13 .


#45559
highcastle

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DreamerM wrote...

highcastle wrote...

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...

Perhaps it isn't my place, not being directly involved with the discussion and all that, but could we please mind the tone a little bit? The atmosphere in here is getting a little toxic.


Sorry. That's probably me. I'm not trying to be antagonistic, but tone's so hard to convey without speech. Let's just say I'm rivaling DreamerM. At this point I should've accrued about +50 Rivalry, no? Is it time for Questioning Beliefs?


Lemme check the codex...yep, there's a companion quest at my Safehouse. Meet me there after you finish your Herbalist's Tasks. :whistle::whistle:


Alright, finished my other quests. Is it going to be wall-slamming and glowy, or furiously writing out our manifestos? I'm down either way. :innocent:

#45560
beckaliz

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 If only I could have spent time on this thread yesterday INSTEAD OF FLYING ON A CRAPPY PLANE. *grumblemutter* I hate flying. I lost a pocket knife in security, too, that my mom gave me on a trip because I forgot it was in the art case I stuffed into the bottom of my backpack. T__T

Uhm wow. Lots of words yesterday. I'll put in my 2 cents. Or... my own wall of change...?

For me, I had a hard time with my Warden just staring up at whoever she was talking to with the same blank expression. It's impossible to GIVE her an expression based on the things s/he says because s/he says them in a split second and you immediately get feedback. That was actually a little jarring for me sometimes, especially when I made a decision on what to say too quickly, and then I get their response, and then I'm left thinking, "Wait a sec, what did I say?? I didn't mean it the way they took it!" And then I'd review the conversations and be like "huh."

In DA:O there are also times when you also lack some influence. No matter what you do in your Origin story, things always get fxked to hell right after you leave. BUT!! I won't say much on that because I haven't finished the PT where the Warden's all like, "Ok, let's let the arl's wife sacrifice herself to Jowan's blood magic." And Alistair says "OMFG WTF DID YOU DO!!!" in camp later. I haven't done the Sacred Ashes quest to see the arl's reaction. (urgh)

Hawke only ever has 3 conversation options, but you can still shape her/his personality with a combination thereof. Correm!Hawke is a snarky bugger, but it's his shield from the world in some ways. It was tough growing up having to move around so much and be paranoid of discovery of the family he's devoted to, and if he didn't keep a good sense of humor about life in general, it would just bring him down. Sometimes he says the nice thing, sometimes he says the mean/direct thing (he yelled at Aveline about his mother, for example, and other times he's like "asdlfjlkgsd WTF YOU HAVE TO DIE", rather than joking around until the enemy attacks first). In Act 3, he gets to where he says the snarky thing less. Maybe it's his mother dying, maybe it's because he's become resigned to being put in the spotlight in the city and he doesn't find it funny anymore. Maybe even it's from living with Anders for 3 years! As evidenced by Anders's Kittenmarsh conversation with Varric, he still has some sense of humor left, but the codex tells us that, while Hawke makes him happy, he's still either mopey or manic. I think Correm has had a hard time keeping up with the mood swings, though he genuinely loves Anders. He even picks the line, "Nothing is more important than love!" when speaking to Anders after the Justice quest. Anders has such a kind, compassionate heart tied to the remnants of that sense of humor, he's broken through Correm's exterior and there are just moments when Correm acknowledges the reality of the world around him and puts aside his irreverence. And after the war at the Gallows, his ability to keep up the flippant facade all the time crumbles. He has to struggle with it, whereas he didn't before. His heart is completely broken. :(

I was playing DA:O obsessively when I first got it, but that was partly because I was working 60 hours a week, 900 miles from home, and didn't have anything better to do after I got home and didn't feel like going anywhere. However, I was also on the edge of my proverbial seat thinking, OMG WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN!!! And sure, you have an affect on what happens, but a lot of it you only really understand how those changes affect the world AFTER the fact. I had a hard time, actually, following those, and don't quite remember all of it. (Fortunately for me I have a save game right before battling the archdemon, so I can finish that off and read them again if I want.)

Personally, I am in love with characters. I used to roleplay (the write-back-and-forth kind) with someone who I'm no longer friends with, and we had these characters we'd developed over years, sometimes making new characters and throwing them against each other. The characters would make changes in the world, but primarily what we would do is we would throw situations at them and watch how they reacted. The characters mattered just a little more than the world around them, though of course that world grew and developed a lot over the massive amounts of time we put into it. The way I write, I make a basic character concept and no matter how little I start out with, that character is already complete somewhere in the ether of my mind. I get to know my characters after writing them in different situations. I don't even always know their complete backstory. It's just the way I write. I feel like the character is alive in my head, and that life comes out through me, but I'm also just an observer, because I cannot make the character go against his or her nature.

[[EDIT: With Hawke, I feel like I'm discovering who he is through the way he can react to the world around him. I am interested in those reactions, and the reactions of his/her companions. A conversation wheel pops up and the Hawke in my head "tells" me which is right.]]

And, for some reason, I just didn't feel as much with my Warden as I do with Hawke. I dealt more with the NPCs emotions in DA:O than with my Warden's. I don't know, maybe it's the voice, maybe it's getting to see their expressions. Maybe it's even the conversation wheel. I see the wheel as being what Hawke is thinking privately in her/his head, especially after, when you're speaking with Leandra, there's the option early on to pick, "Not this again." or something like that, and if you pick it, the thing that Hawke actually says is much more diplomatic than that seems.

Speaking of expressions, I LOVE the interaction with Idunna the Exotic Wonder. XD That halting speech and the drunk look on Hawke's face when she's manipulating her/him is just epic.

Herp derp derp! I'm gonna try to format A Distant Ray of Light for my new Kindle to read while I spend time on the treadmill this morning. Slash? Yes please~ I'll be working on my own later.

Modifié par beckaliz, 21 juin 2011 - 02:26 .


#45561
beckaliz

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highcastle wrote...

DreamerM wrote...

highcastle wrote...

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...

Perhaps it isn't my place, not being directly involved with the discussion and all that, but could we please mind the tone a little bit? The atmosphere in here is getting a little toxic.


Sorry. That's probably me. I'm not trying to be antagonistic, but tone's so hard to convey without speech. Let's just say I'm rivaling DreamerM. At this point I should've accrued about +50 Rivalry, no? Is it time for Questioning Beliefs?


Lemme check the codex...yep, there's a companion quest at my Safehouse. Meet me there after you finish your Herbalist's Tasks. :whistle::whistle:


Alright, finished my other quests. Is it going to be wall-slamming and glowy, or furiously writing out our manifestos? I'm down either way. :innocent:


Hee hee hee hee. XD

This is why I like this thread.
<3<3 :wub:

#45562
Maaia

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I just wanted to point out that at the very beginning of Anders recruitment quest, after Hawke visits Lirene's shop, some Ferelden refugees corner Hawke & friends outside the door because they think Hawke is a threat to Anders. If convinced otherwise, the leader basically says, "Oh sorry, from the looks of your clothes we thought you were from Hightown." So, obviously, Hawke & friends have a different look about them from average Ferelden refugees or even Carta/Coterie members. I figured they stood out pretty obviously in Anders clinic, and thus he felt more threatened than he normally did by thugs or gang members. Kinda like having the ATF or FBI show up at your rave or something. Ha.

#45563
highcastle

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Maaia wrote...

I just wanted to point out that at the very beginning of Anders recruitment quest, after Hawke visits Lirene's shop, some Ferelden refugees corner Hawke & friends outside the door because they think Hawke is a threat to Anders. If convinced otherwise, the leader basically says, "Oh sorry, from the looks of your clothes we thought you were from Hightown." So, obviously, Hawke & friends have a different look about them from average Ferelden refugees or even Carta/Coterie members. I figured they stood out pretty obviously in Anders clinic, and thus he felt more threatened than he normally did by thugs or gang members. Kinda like having the ATF or FBI show up at your rave or something. Ha.


Or so you heard, right? :whistle:

But that's a good point. I forgot about Hawke getting accosted on his way down to the clinic.

#45564
Maaia

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Or so you heard, right? Posted Image


:innocent:

Edit: Thank the maker I didn't get ToP with that.

Modifié par Maaia, 21 juin 2011 - 02:49 .


#45565
CalJones

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Probably because he was wearing clothes that didn't have holes in.

#45566
xRiseAboveThis

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highcastle wrote...

ademska wrote...

holy ****, nope, not going to bed. i'd assumed from your posts you write m!hawke/anders? you wanna link me up? because if you inspired that bit of gorgeousness, i want in. like, now.


Ooh, is it shameless self-promotion time? I'm down! There are links in my sig, but the main fics are:

A Distant Ray of Light: Basically my novel-length take on Anders' thought process throughout DA2. With slash.

The Whole Sky Shaken: Hawke's thought process throughout the gap between Acts 2 and 3.

Plus I have a bunch of short fics on my main page.

It's totally not advertising if someone asks for the links, right guys? ;)


I started reading A Distant Ray of Light last night. I'm on chapter 17 so far, and it's amazing. My favorite kinds of romantic stories are the ones that tease you to the point of legitimate frustration until the characters finally get together, and you did a wonderful job of that. I'm only 17 chapters in and it's already my second-favorite fanfiction ever. Posted Image

#45567
highcastle

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xRiseAboveThis wrote...

I started reading A Distant Ray of Light last night. I'm on chapter 17 so far, and it's amazing. My favorite kinds of romantic stories are the ones that tease you to the point of legitimate frustration until the characters finally get together, and you did a wonderful job of that. I'm only 17 chapters in and it's already my second-favorite fanfiction ever. Posted Image


Thank you very much!

#45568
tmp7704

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highcastle wrote...

I wanted to feel things in Origins. My first Cousland cared deeply for his family, but when no one around him did, when his loss and pain were ignored, it made me feel as though his feelings--and thus mine--didn't matter. Thus, I checked out emotionally in the story. I wanted my feelings to be acknowledged by the other characters in the game. When they weren't, I stopped having feelings.

Your Cousland was the only person who knew his family and as such had some actual reasons to really care they're gone. The entire Cousland's story happens in period shorter than just 1st act of DA2. It's probably unfair to put the low-key reaction in it to what happens in DA2 -- where someone may come to comfort a friend they've known for more than 5 years at that point, to express regret over death of someone they knew personally for near equally long period of time.

I thought DAO handled the situation suitably -- you get the awkward oh-i'm-sorry's when you bring the subject up, and you also get some comments from other nobles who did happen to know your family, later in the story. Which is what could realistically be expected. Something more involved would feel like a self-absorbed emo fanfic writing, to be honest. You know, the kind that makes people say "what a whiner" about Alistair when he talks about his loss (yet again) Because they personally care about Duncan (and to a degree, Alistair) as much as the NPCs care about Cousland's family they never knew. i.e. next to none.

#45569
tmp7704

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beckaliz wrote...

For me, I had a hard time with my Warden just staring up at whoever she was talking to with the same blank expression.

This one always astounds me to hear, because in most dialogues all you see is the back of the Warden's head. Meaning, he/she could be doing any expression you feel like imagining, to fit the tone of selected dialogue.

Oddly enough you see the blank expression on Hawke's face far more often than that, because he/she keeps neutral expression while you select your lines, and camera switches focus on his/her face every second line of the dialogue...

#45570
highcastle

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tmp7704 wrote...

highcastle wrote...

I wanted to feel things in Origins. My first Cousland cared deeply for his family, but when no one around him did, when his loss and pain were ignored, it made me feel as though his feelings--and thus mine--didn't matter. Thus, I checked out emotionally in the story. I wanted my feelings to be acknowledged by the other characters in the game. When they weren't, I stopped having feelings.

Your Cousland was the only person who knew his family and as such had some actual reasons to really care they're gone. The entire Cousland's story happens in period shorter than just 1st act of DA2. It's probably unfair to put the low-key reaction in it to what happens in DA2 -- where someone may come to comfort a friend they've known for more than 5 years at that point, to express regret over death of someone they knew personally for near equally long period of time.

I thought DAO handled the situation suitably -- you get the awkward oh-i'm-sorry's when you bring the subject up, and you also get some comments from other nobles who did happen to know your family, later in the story. Which is what could realistically be expected. Something more involved would feel like a self-absorbed emo fanfic writing, to be honest. You know, the kind that makes people say "what a whiner" about Alistair when he talks about his loss (yet again) Because they personally care about Duncan (and to a degree, Alistair) as much as the NPCs care about Cousland's family they never knew. i.e. next to none.


While this isn't really the forum to address DAO, I'm going to do it anyway. ;) The problem with the HN origin story, IMO of course, is that it's set up as a classic revenge story. The hero's idyllic world is shattered by a betrayal. This is the point in The Count of Monte Cristo or The Godfather or whatever revenge parable you fancy where the hero buckles down and sets about righting those wrongs. Instead, the entire story is shunted to the side. Fergus could still be alive, but the game won't indulge in a rescue. My Cousland legitimately wanted to say, "Screw the Wardens, I've more personal things to do," but the game wouldn't let him.

Furthermore, by the time DAO gets around to acknowledging the revenge part of this story, no one cares. By this point, Cousland's been romancing Zevran, asking him all about his feelings and experiences, and not once does Zev (or anyone else for that matter) ask him if he got closure or how he feels. It's a disregard for the internal struggle that meant this moment always fell flat. It could have been awesome. It could have been a moment of triumph as Cousland got what he wanted, or one of despair when he realized slaying Howe didn't bring his family back. But it was nothing because the game didn't pause and reflect on it.

In DA2, a larger emphasis is placed on these lulls between the action. In addition to the LI coming to comfort Hawke after the death of Leandra, you also have an entire quest where Aveline offers her condolences. Other characters make smaller comments. Hell, Gamlen's reaction immediately after All That Remains is one of my favorite moments in the game. We get to see this man, this largely unlikeable figure, break down, lash out, and then realize he has no outlet for his grief. We see the characters care--both about Hawke's feelings and about the death itself.

Granted, they knew Leandra, while you're suggesting that the NPCs in Origins didn't know family!Cousland enough to mourn them. True. But by the time Howe's death rolls around, they at least know the Warden well enough to respect his feelings or express concern about them. That no one does was a missed opportunity in my opinion.

And, um...Andersbutt. Totally on topic guys.

#45571
ipgd

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DreamerM wrote...

....I was hoping it'd be a metaphor second. I was hoping it'd be a spirt possession first. We've seen them before in Dragon Age, both possession by demons (the Abomonations we kill in droves) and by benevolent spirits (Wynne and her friend). Justice being somewhere between, and more like a human with logic of his own then a pure force for good or ill, raised all kinds of dramatic potential that..... is a metaphor for being bipolar. If that's actually the case, please forgive me for calling it disapointing.

It's... both. Some concepts are layered in their presentations, with secondary real life allusions that supplement the in-world literality and add additional depth through the connections they draw within the player.

You seem very very fixated on literal readings. I'm not sure how to argue with you, considering you seem to deride the deeper underpinnings that really drive the narrative and its characters. If you take fundamental issue with abstracted narrative devices and themes and believe they should matter less than the face value messages and events they lay behind, I think this is just going to have to be a matter of This Is Not The Game For You.

The problems you cite aren't really a failing of the game, given they are answered in a fashion, but the fact that fashion is not satisfactory to you is more a descriptor of your own personal preferences regarding a broad type of narrative that goes beyond the specific, microscopic details of DA2's story you raise. The entire game is buoyed by allusions and metaphors and inference, and if that is not the kind of narrative you like to deal with, of course it's going to disappoint you. But that is not an inherent fault so much as an adherence to a type of narrative that, obviously, does not have absolute universal appeal -- and nothing ever does.

#45572
tmp7704

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highcastle wrote...

The problem with the HN origin story, IMO of course, is that it's set up as a classic revenge story. The hero's idyllic world is shattered by a betrayal. This is the point in The Count of Monte Cristo or The Godfather or whatever revenge parable you fancy where the hero buckles down and sets about righting those wrongs. Instead, the entire story is shunted to the side. Fergus could still be alive, but the game won't indulge in a rescue. My Cousland legitimately wanted to say, "Screw the Wardens, I've more personal things to do," but the game wouldn't let him.

Hmm i think i see how one could view it. It may have to do with which origin story is experienced first, then -- in my case i played first the CE, so when it was the HN's turn the beginning felt more like "right, so that's how we get to the warden part in this scenario". But i can see in situation where the player experiences the HN story first, they get more like "it's all about my revenge~" like you describe, and then feel dissonance when the overall plot doesn't care about this aspect as much as they do.

#45573
highcastle

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tmp7704 wrote...

highcastle wrote...

The problem with the HN origin story, IMO of course, is that it's set up as a classic revenge story. The hero's idyllic world is shattered by a betrayal. This is the point in The Count of Monte Cristo or The Godfather or whatever revenge parable you fancy where the hero buckles down and sets about righting those wrongs. Instead, the entire story is shunted to the side. Fergus could still be alive, but the game won't indulge in a rescue. My Cousland legitimately wanted to say, "Screw the Wardens, I've more personal things to do," but the game wouldn't let him.

Hmm i think i see how one could view it. It may have to do with which origin story is experienced first, then -- in my case i played first the CE, so when it was the HN's turn the beginning felt more like "right, so that's how we get to the warden part in this scenario". But i can see in situation where the player experiences the HN story first, they get more like "it's all about my revenge~" like you describe, and then feel dissonance when the overall plot doesn't care about this aspect as much as they do.


Bingo. I also see the merits of the Warden story, I do. But I'm more interested in personal narratives. I'm less forest and more trees, I guess you'd say. And I liked Origins, I swear I did. I played through it about 8 times, I think, and the HN was one of my favorite backgrounds. It's just...it didn't resonate with me on the same level as Hawke's story did. It has to do with the type of story I prefer. Some people like epics. Nothing wrong with that. DAO was definitely epic. DA2 felt more personal. Ergo, I liked it better.

Hey, look at us disagreeing all civil like. I think we totally deserve cookies. Or kittens. Or kitten-shaped cookies...

(I'm hungry.)

#45574
mesmerizedish

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I like a story that's epic and personal at the same time *cough*shadowsofamn*cough*

#45575
SurelyForth

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Just so y'all know, Yami is the most awesome:

Posted Image