57020 réponses à ce sujet

[DreamerM]

highcastle wrote...

First, if BioWare seperates Hawke/Anders post-game after the friendmance, I will rage. It makes zero sense for the characters.

Well supposedly by the time Cassandra is chasing him/her, Hawke has vanished without a trace.

But also, the DLC supposedly takes place before the endgame, which means we still don't know what happens with everyone after the run-for-your-lives bit.

Garrr. Fine then.

I'm gonna call it right now and say this is the "Kitten for Anders" DLC that we've been waiting for forever. It contains nothing but a "Small Tabby Kitten" item that you can give to Anders, and he will make squee noises for the rest of the game.

[Furtled]

Okay maybe not re-lurking completely but if Anders did return to the Wardens (and they let him live) wouldn't that cause all manner of potential headaches for the Order (and possibly the Anderfels given that it's implied the Wardens pretty much run the country) with Orlais/The Chantry even in their weakened states?

Not sure I could see them shielding him under threat of an Exalted March against them, no matter how much potential fun could be had from a Warden v Templars smackdown. I get the feeling that if they were asked to kill him/hand him over they'd do it in a heartbeat so they can get on with Darkspawn related things.

Mind it all has the potential to get more interesting/less clear cut depending on how the Warden PC might react to the whole thing, but I doubt we'd be seeing any of that in a DLC.

Modifié par Furtled, 21 juin 2011 - 09:21 .

[ForgeDark]

maxernst wrote...

DreamerM wrote...

eyeofhorus87 wrote...

Except that Morrigan acted the same to you regardless,  you just didn't get as many 'get to know you questions' if you were bad rep with someone.

Letting your approval fall too far could result in everyone (excluding your fellow Gray Warden who can't leave because of Plot Reasons) either attacking you or just leaving you in the dirt. Keeping approval high avoids those fights.

eyeofhorus87 wrote...
Then again if you showered her with gifts and then it really would make no difference.

More gamers then I thought actually made this mistake, both with Morrigan and Leilianna: they gift her approval up to 100% and then wonder why they can't romance her. The only way to start a romance with those characters is to talk to them constantly, keep their approval high, and flirt when the option appears.

eyeofhorus87 wrote...
I'm not saying that DAOs system was bad, I love DAO, I just prefer the way DA2 does it since a character disapproving with you actually makes them act differently.

As opposed to attacking you or just leaving you to fight your impossible battle alone. Here's the thing, I never understood why a character whom Hawke has been nothing but harsh ahd mean towards for the entire game would, for Plot Reasons, still hang around him, come when he calls, go where he tells them and take his opinions seriously.

I have a hard time understanding the rivalry system, as well.  The only way I can rationalize it is that Hawke's spent so much time forcing them to help him do things they disagree with, belittling their opinions and generally bullying them that they're cowed into submission.  But most of  the companions don't seem like the sort to stick around in an abusive relationship.  And unlike DA:O, Hawke's not pursuing some larger goal that's important to them.

I found it very difficult to get anyone to hate me in Origins, which I guess is my style of play, which may be why I see DA2 differently because it isn't hard for someone to hate you. The only time I ever have chars leave me in origins is if I do something like side with Branka while Shale is around. However conversations do drastically change in DA2 if you are rivals with them: e.g Anders tries to stop Justice if you are his rival, but doesn't if you are friends. I don't see any real difference between conversations in DAO if you already dislike someone but pick the friendly options in conversation. (I actually may be totally wrong here - if you are friendly with Anders and pick certain options will Justice still come out in Act 3? The only time I had a char that didn't like Anders I told him to leave after he killed the mage girl) 

I see the rivalry system as that the companions respecting Hawke (and even trust Hawk), and coule be using Hawketo their own ends - they do still ask you for help on their companion quests. The things I do find more difficult to believe is why for example Merrill would keep asking you for help after you already took the knife from her. Whereas I can see why Anders would still trick you into the free me from Justice potion, since at rivalry level most Hawkes would see Justice as an abomination that needs to be rid of. However I think it would be more realistic if some companions would leave if you said the wrong things in a conversation after you've got to rival (then again, you can get rid of Anders easily enough if you want to)

[highcastle]

Everyone's forgetting that Anders doesn't want to join the Wardens. And anything Lola wants Lola gets hasn't the poor guy been forced to join enough frats at this point? First the Circle, then the Wardens, can't he catch a break?

Although it sends me to my happy place imagining the Wardens trying to take Anders in and Hawke pulling one of those defeat-the-Arishok moments out and not letting it happen. Maybe because I'm not crazy about the Wardens in general...

[DreamerM]

Furtled wrote...

Okay maybe not re-lurking completely but if Anders did return to the Wardens (and they let him live) wouldn't that cause all manner of potential headaches for the Order (and possibly the Anderfels given that it's implied the Wardens pretty much run the country) with Orlais/The Chantry even in their weakened states?

Depends on what the Wardens real objectives are. Could be whatever they have brewing concerns them more then pressure from Orlais or the Chantry, and if they think Anders can help, then nobody is really in a position to force them otherwise.

But you're right, this isn't DLC material.

[mellifera]

highcastle wrote...

Everyone's forgetting that Anders doesn't want to join the Wardens. And anything Lola wants Lola gets hasn't the poor guy been forced to join enough frats at this point? First the Circle, then the Wardens, can't he catch a break?

Although it sends me to my happy place imagining the Wardens trying to take Anders in and Hawke pulling one of those defeat-the-Arishok moments out and not letting it happen. Maybe because I'm not crazy about the Wardens in general...

Bleh, yes. I wanted the option to tell the Wardens to go f**k themselves in DAO, but then I suppose there wouldn't be much of a game...

[SurelyForth]

yukidama wrote...

highcastle wrote...

Everyone's forgetting that Anders doesn't want to join the Wardens. And anything Lola wants Lola gets hasn't the poor guy been forced to join enough frats at this point? First the Circle, then the Wardens, can't he catch a break?

Although it sends me to my happy place imagining the Wardens trying to take Anders in and Hawke pulling one of those defeat-the-Arishok moments out and not letting it happen. Maybe because I'm not crazy about the Wardens in general...

Bleh, yes. I wanted the option to tell the Wardens to go f**k themselves in DAO, but then I suppose there wouldn't be much of a game...

The sane reaction.

But, if he's all on his own, then I think the Wardens might be the best place for him. If he can find his Wardens, that would probably the best thing for him.

[beckaliz]

DreamerM wrote...

beckaliz wrote...

I don't know, would the Wardens take him back? There didn't seem to be any love lost with them, and it's possible that they could eventually just not accept him because of the whole killing-other-Wardens thing. Unless you're just jesting.

Well when you're a Warden, it's for life. The Taint never leaves you. So yes, I think the Wardens would have to take him back. It's their policy not to care what you've done, no matter how awful it was. 

Now, this does not mean they couldn't stick him in some dungeon where the sight of him couldn't offend anybody. Or execute him themselves. 

That begs the question whether he would actually want to go back to them. He harbors resentment, after all, and by the end of the game his views and his emotions become more extreme. Janders could see the Wardens as a potential threat to his ability to fight for mage freedom. On the other hand, he might also see them as the only ones who might have a chance of helping him control Vengeance.

I wonder, though, if being tied to Justice keeps Anders from dreaming... (high-five to @highcastle for excellent idea which I just found in fic today) ... how would it affect the dreams he gets from the Taint? Have there been discussions on here about the affect the Taint has on him in his Justice-merger state? I can't recall. I mean that definitely would make a difference, especially as he got older. It's fully conceivable that his bond with Justice has exacerbated that issue and possibly brought the decline faster.


............................................

SurelyForth wrote...

beckaliz wrote...

DreamerM wrote...

Alright, using the "three fates of Alistair" as a model, lets come up with three roles for Anders in DA:3

2. The Gray Warden: Hawke sided with Mages and let Anders live, but they didn't romance/leave together. Anders goes running to the only people he knows HAVE to take him in: the Gray Wardens. He winds up embroiled in whatever they are up to. Meet up with him to get some cryptic hints as to what they are doing and a nifty keepsake from "a friend." Also, he is reunited with Ser Pounce-a-lot.

I don't know, would the Wardens take him back? There didn't seem to be any love lost with them, and it's possible that they could eventually just not accept him because of the whole killing-other-Wardens thing. Unless you're just jesting.

Well...they might not realize that Anders killed those Wardens. It seems like he was the only survivor, and I find it hard to believe that they'd assume that Anders would do such a thing (considering his personality prior to the merge). I think the Chantry thing would be a bigger issue and, depending on what the First hopes to accomplish, the Wardens might see it as an opportunity.

Good point. Though you'd also have to wonder how much, in BW's official canon anyway, it is common knowledge that he's the one who committed his little act. Cassandra doesn't seem surprised, obviously, but she's a Seeker and I'm sure they have super-secret knowledge. It might behove the Chantry to let the general public think that the Kirkwall blood mages did the deed. But, as has been mentioned before, Cassandra's seeming lack of caring could just be a flaw in the framed narrative and keeping secrets from the Player not actually something based on plot machinations.

That being said, if the Wardens knew he'd done it, they'd likely execute him, and I think that he'd know this. I'm sure they'd find out he's an abomination and would definitely be concerned about what kind of complications that could cause paired with the Taint.

[highcastle]

yukidama wrote...

highcastle wrote...

Everyone's forgetting that Anders doesn't want to join the Wardens. And anything Lola wants Lola gets hasn't the poor guy been forced to join enough frats at this point? First the Circle, then the Wardens, can't he catch a break?

Although it sends me to my happy place imagining the Wardens trying to take Anders in and Hawke pulling one of those defeat-the-Arishok moments out and not letting it happen. Maybe because I'm not crazy about the Wardens in general...

Bleh, yes. I wanted the option to tell the Wardens to go f**k themselves in DAO, but then I suppose there wouldn't be much of a game...

Oh good, I'm glad I'm not the only one who wanted to Cartman-out on Duncan and just say, "Screw you guys! I'm going home."

[beckaliz]

ElleMullineux wrote...

I do hope we get to find out more about the big bad which meant that the Wardens were sniffing about in and around Kirkwall. Seeing as it was a massive centre of blood magic - what if someone is trying to find access into the Golden/Black City, the architect or if there were more Mothers, and it's under Kirkwall - or they think it is?

That makes sense. Issues with the Black City are definitely a darkspawn thing, and it's in the Fade, and if the Veil is thin and causing the plethora of blood mages in Kirkwall, then the Wardens would definitely take issue.

That was FAR from eloquent... I hope it made at least some sense...? *hopeful*

[highcastle]

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...

Aw, you guys Duncan is way cool and the Wardens are a decent bunch. Sort of. They're simply saddled with the not-so-fun task of saving the world from apocalypse over and over again.

Yeah, but it's how they go about it. Not telling you before the Joining that it will kill you very soon is a low blow. Plus Duncan dragging my Cousland away from his parents just because he wanted another recruit was also not cool. Then no one telling us a Grey Warden has to die to slay the Archdemon. Then then being forced to be the Commander of the Grey when I was clearly going to be Alistair's chancellor and bum around the capital with him was just the final straw.

They're like the mob in The Godfather.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

yukidama wrote...

highcastle wrote...
Everyone's forgetting that Anders doesn't want to join the Wardens. And anything Lola wants Lola gets hasn't the poor guy been forced to join enough frats at this point? First the Circle, then the Wardens, can't he catch a break?

Although it sends me to my happy place imagining the Wardens trying to take Anders in and Hawke pulling one of those defeat-the-Arishok moments out and not letting it happen. Maybe because I'm not crazy about the Wardens in general...

Bleh, yes. I wanted the option to tell the Wardens to go f**k themselves in DAO, but then I suppose there wouldn't be much of a game...

Anders: I'm really not much of a... joiner.
PC: Really? The spirit in your head says otherwise.

/rimshot

The great thing is, according to the story (theoretically) your Warden HAS told the Wardens to go f**k themselves by now. (in my mind, it was after she found out what they allowed to happen to Anders, heh). S/he disappeared. Your Warden could be anywhere, doing anything.

I almost hope that they don't tell you what happened, because in my mind, the Warden is now traveling around Ferelden solving crimes and helping people. I was fine with staying with them in Awakenings, because there were several big bads out there that obviously needed her... unique talents to defeat. Now, she's still a Warden, in fact she's THE Warden, and she'll fight Darkspawn if she finds them, but she's decided that as the Hero of Ferelden and advisor to the King, she has a unique ability to make a difference in the world beyond the Wardens, and she's totally doing it, in her small, stealthy way. In my ideal world, my Warden, Zevran, Hawke and Anders all meet up somewhere off the map and leave to change the world together. And honestly, if there's anyone who can realistically protect Anders from reprisal, wouldn't it be the motherfreakin Hero of Ferelden?

Which is why I like the "this can't be a coincidence" thing that Leliana says. It makes me think that Hawke and the Warden may meet up, which would be great. Pity that most of my Alistairs are King, and can't conveniently disappear to go on their world-changing adventures, but Zev gladly obliges in his place.

[Furtled]

DreamerM wrote...
Depends on what the Wardens real objectives are. Could be whatever they have brewing concerns them more then pressure from Orlais or the Chantry, and if they think Anders can help, then nobody is really in a position to force them otherwise.

True enough - it's possible I've been watching too much Game of Thrones because my mind's spinning off into all manner of all out war domino effects from Anders (voluntarily or not) returning to the Order. The DLC hints we have so far make me wonder if the threat the Wardens allude to in game will be the thing to overshadow the mage v Templar conflict come DA3 - there's nothing quite like an oncoming apocolypse for making people put their differences aside.

[highcastle]

Furtled wrote...

DreamerM wrote...
Depends on what the Wardens real objectives are. Could be whatever they have brewing concerns them more then pressure from Orlais or the Chantry, and if they think Anders can help, then nobody is really in a position to force them otherwise.

True enough - it's possible I've been watching too much Game of Thrones because my mind's spinning off into all manner of all out war domino effects from Anders (voluntarily or not) returning to the Order. The DLC hints we have so far make me wonder if the threat the Wardens allude to in game will be the thing to overshadow the mage v Templar conflict come DA3 - there's nothing quite like an oncoming apocolypse for making people put their differences aside.

Maker I hope that's not where the franchise goes. I want the war to play out in all its glory. I want a game where there's no grand arch-enemy, where both the sides have merits and faults, and where no ultimate evil comes in. Just shades of gray, leave the black and white at home.

The darkspawn only got interesting to me when the Architect and Disciples came into play and turned them from Always Chaotic Evil baddies into something a bit more human (for lack of a better word). The last thing I want is another inherently dark force making everybody unite. No. Give us mages against templars. Give us a Qunari invasion on top of it. Give us the world falling apart, and let us pull it back together through genuine hard work instead of taking the cop out of everyone-works-together-to-defeat-the-Big-Bad-and-then-there's-no-more-trouble. Stories like that gloss over what happens after the Big Bad's gone. In reality, people generally don't hold hands and sing after wards. They...well, they tend to behave like they did in DA2.

[ipgd]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

 In my ideal world, my Warden, Zevran, Hawke and Anders all meet up somewhere off the map and leave to change the world together.

That's one hell of a foursome.

[highcastle]

ipgd wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

 In my ideal world, my Warden, Zevran, Hawke and Anders all meet up somewhere off the map and leave to change the world together.

That's one hell of a foursome.

And children, that's what we call the Big Bang....

[DreamerM]

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...
Well, yes, but "Joining Us Means That You Have To Suck On Darkspawn Taint Which Will Likely Kill You Horribly" doesn't make much for a recruitment slogan, does it? And they're having trouble enough as it is recruiting people between Blights without the public knowledge that recruits may die for no reason at all.

I'd like to point out that the Right of Conscription gives the Wardens the power to recruit ANYBODY at any time. I doubt they'd need something like that if they had no problem attracting skilled help on their own.

So yeah, The Wardens. Needed to protect the world. Unfortunately.

[Furtled]

highcastle wrote...
Maker I hope that's not where the franchise goes. I want the war to play out in all its glory. I want a game where there's no grand arch-enemy, where both the sides have merits and faults, and where no ultimate evil comes in. Just shades of gray, leave the black and white at home.

I'm a fan of breaking worlds to remake them and agreed that another clear cut enemy would make for a weaker game. Part of me would love to see something utterly bleak like the scenario you describe followed by a big bad that emerges before anyone realises whats going on - except this time it manages to wipe them all out because they haven't worked hard enough to fix things (which, now that I think about it, has some limited similarities to DA2's ending). Granted that particular ending is highly unlikely, but I can dream (evilly).

Modifié par Furtled, 21 juin 2011 - 10:08 .

[highcastle]

DreamerM wrote...

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...
Well, yes, but "Joining Us Means That You Have To Suck On Darkspawn Taint Which Will Likely Kill You Horribly" doesn't make much for a recruitment slogan, does it? And they're having trouble enough as it is recruiting people between Blights without the public knowledge that recruits may die for no reason at all.

I'd like to point out that the Right of Conscription gives the Wardens the power to recruit ANYBODY at any time. I doubt they'd need something like that if they had no problem attracting skilled help on their own.

So yeah, The Wardens. Needed to protect the world. Unfortunately.

Oh...oh my goodness...do we...can we possibly...are we agreeing on something? You know what that means:

+50 Hi-C Friendship.

Of course, you had me rivaled before, so now I'm back to being neutral just like Fenris in my first playthrough.