57020 réponses à ce sujet

[CulturalGeekGirl]

To paraphase a Kids in the Hall Sketch (audio NSFW)

"Anyone can murder Elthina. It's easy son, all you have to be is quiet and willing to do it. And son, I am willing to do it... and I've got quiet shoes. Goodnight!"

What Justice provides is the whole "willing to do it" part of that equation. I think that's important. I think that plotwise, it's better if that's all that Justice provides. Because it says so much more about the world if this is something that a man can pull off himself, if he has the volition.

One could say that the spirit is willing...

Ok, that was awful.


Runaire

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 22 juin 2011 - 02:46 .

[maxernst]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

highcastle wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

highcastle wrote...

@CGG: I think it's clear at this point that we all get different things out every game we play. I got something completely different from both DAO and DA2, but as I've already written extensively about this, I won't rehash it. I just wanted to note that I believe the feeling of helplessness was intended. This isn't a story about saving the world. It's a story about a (wo)man swept up in something greater than themselves, trying to influence it, and largely failing. You're supposed to feel helpless to a large extent. And I liked that, because I don't normally get it from a video game.

I want to specify that it's not the helplessness I have a problem with at all. Even remotely. It's the inability to learn or try, without that inability being explained. Those are very different things to me.

(snipped out lots of stuff to focus on what I'm reacting to)

For DA:O, the chief reason for all those things seemed to be "there isn't enough time/the blight is more important!" This is something I discussed more in my WallOText. Hawke is made of time, and has no concerns that are anywhere as pressing as the end of the world. She isn't a Warden, and isn't infertile and going to die in 30 years. None of the things you suggested seem like they would have had a remote chance of succeeding.

"Why can't I have a conversation with my friend about a subject they just mentioned?" and "Why can't I do anything at all to help my friend/companion with their personal problem that is directly affecting us all right now?" seem much harder to explain. I could come up with a solid reason why every single one of your scenarios are impossible, but I can't understand why having a conversation about a thing with my friends isn't possible.

Or, to look at it another way, see how the inability to do those certain things reflects upon the characters, if you assume they are unable to do them because of fundamental character traits. I looked at things the respective characters cannot attempt, and divined the most obvious explanation as to why:

Q: Why doesn't the Warden decide to give up fighting the Blight and send her friends on suicide missions?
A: Because the Warden is focused on the blight and doesn't want to send people to their deaths.

Q: Why doesn't Hawke ever try to understand more about the nature of JAnders' situation?
A: Because Hawke isn't that curious or interested about it, or doesn't care, or doesn't think it warrants investigation.

@CGG, that's a very nice way of putting it.  When I first saw the premise of DA2, I was delighted that it wasn't about saving the world.  This was partly because, as much as I enjoyed DA:O, it's a trite premise.  What made DA:O enjoyable was the companion interactions and the subplots, not the main plot.  But it was also because not having the time pressure of an urgent task would allow a player to explore, and potentially have more open-ended gameplay.  It really made little sense to me to be wandering across Ferelden in search of lost caravans on some chantry board quest under the circumstances.

I was disappointed that given that the premise should allow for more freedom for the player, that that opportunity was not taken.  Not just in the Anders situation, but in many places in Act 2, there were times when I simply couldn't understand why Hawke didn't pursue certain lines of investigation further.  And the answer of him simply being incurious, disinterested or apathetic certainly works, but it's hard for me to empathize with.

[ipgd]

DreamerM wrote...

I will go to my grave someday still shaking my head about the fact that a powerful Mage/Abomination Guy actually needed to dig out his Anarchist's Cookbook to make a building go boom.

I will never understand what the Plot People were thinking when they decided that. Never. 

Neither Anders nor Justice are Jesus Christ, or Wikipedia. I'm not sure how him having to research how to do something is unbelievable.

Unless you mean "had to use a mundane bomb", he... didn't. The explosion was very, very clearly of magical origin. The fact it uses ingredients similar to gunpowder is a) a hint for us, just part of a larger recipe I am sure includes lyrium.

Unless you mean "Justice should be strong enough to blow up a building on his own", we've never seen any indication that abominations are that ridiculously powerful. That was a huge explosion I'm sure well beyond the mana limits of even a Fade spirit.

[beckaliz]

 I like the Malcolm-books irony, too, actually. Irony is fun.  Though for mage!Hawke it seems unlikely that s/he wouldn't know what it was.
How would he have gotten the recipe from the Qunari? They're pretty scary when it comes to protecting that stuff. Then again... those guys DID leave in a hurry, and quite a bit of chaos. That actually sounds pretty feasible.


I love Sandal. XD I think everybody does. He just calmly walks up to Hawke, hand outstretched with a rune sitting there, and says, "Boom! :} " I've got outrageous curiosity about what his deal is. But I'm torn between wanting to find out and wanting it to remain a happy mystery. Getting close to endgame I was just waiting to come across Sandal with dead monsters all around him to let me know when the boss would be coming up, and I was not disappointed. XD

Maybe Anders secretly watched Sandal exploding things accidentally/on-purpose...

.....

QUEUE DANNY ELFMAN GREMLINS THEME!... and watch shades slide out of every corner

Modifié par beckaliz, 22 juin 2011 - 03:18 .

[DreamerM]

ipgd wrote...

Unless you mean "Justice should be strong enough to blow up a building on his own", we've never seen any indication that abominations are that ridiculously powerful. That was a huge explosion I'm sure well beyond the mana limits of even a Fade spirit.

I know, I know, but a girl can dream...

I know, it's "better" for Justice just to be the fire in Anders's head, show how much one guy can do when he wants to, metaphor for mental illness, la-blah-blah....

....I wanted a boom. A really really BIG boom! Something really worthy of the word "Abomination."

This probably makes me a bad person.

Modifié par DreamerM, 22 juin 2011 - 03:31 .

[CulturalGeekGirl]

See, abomination is a stupid word. I'm sorry... if all it means is a melding of spirit and mortal, then that's maddeningly non-specific.

You know what else is an abomination? Shellfish. I'm just saying.

[DreamerM]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

See, abomination is a stupid word. I'm sorry... if all it means is a melding of spirit and mortal, then that's maddeningly non-specific.

Good thing Anders is here to clear up some doubts about that. Wait, no he's not. I'm more confused now then I was when DA:O wrapped up.

And I will never get my big Justiceaplooza kaboom. sadface.

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

You know what else is an abomination? Shellfish. I'm just saying.

Shellfish are living weapons of mass deliciousness.

[ipgd]

DreamerM wrote...

I know, I know, but a girl can dream...

I know, it's "better" for Justice just to be the fire in Anders's head, show how much one guy can do when he wants to, metaphor for mental illness, la-blah-blah....

....I wanted a boom. A really really BIG boom! Something really worthy of the word "Abomination."

This probably makes me a bad person.

But Abominations have never really been associated with big booms in the first place, or anything really more than being big pustulant monsters and performing mind control, so I'm not sure why you expect...

[DreamerM]

ipgd wrote...
But Abominations have never really been associated with big booms in the first place, or anything really more than being big pustulant monsters and performing mind control, so I'm not sure why you expect...

Because it would have looked awesome! And if there's any way to soften the blow of "muaa Anders is so miserable all the time" it'd be a nice countering with "yeah but he did just FLATTEN THAT BUILDING WITH HIS MIND."

Oh dear. I think I'm mad with imaginary power.

[ipgd]

DreamerM wrote...

Because it would have looked awesome! And if there's any way to soften the blow of "muaa Anders is so miserable all the time" it'd be a nice countering with "yeah but he did just FLATTEN THAT BUILDING WITH HIS MIND."

Oh dear. I think I'm mad with imaginary power.

Unfortunately I don't think Michael Bay has any association with Dragon Age.

[DreamerM]

ipgd wrote...
Unfortunately I don't think Michael Bay has any association with Dragon Age.

Why unfortunately? We don't need a bunch of tanks and jets cutting into The Awesome. Keep the Bay away.

Now, if Guillermo Del Toro wants to take a stab at it...

[highcastle]

DreamerM wrote...

ipgd wrote...
Unfortunately I don't think Michael Bay has any association with Dragon Age.

Why unfortunately? We don't need a bunch of tanks and jets cutting into The Awesome. Keep the Bay away.

Now, if Guillermo Del Toro wants to take a stab at it...

Let us not forget that for all his triumphs, Guillermo del Toro already gave of us one abomination. I speak of course of the Film That Must Not Be Name (also known as Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban).

[ipgd]

DreamerM wrote...

Why unfortunately? We don't need a bunch of tanks and jets cutting into The Awesome. Keep the Bay away.

Now, if Guillermo Del Toro wants to take a stab at it...

I was employing a device known as sarcasm.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

highcastle wrote...

DreamerM wrote...

ipgd wrote...
Unfortunately I don't think Michael Bay has any association with Dragon Age.

Why unfortunately? We don't need a bunch of tanks and jets cutting into The Awesome. Keep the Bay away.

Now, if Guillermo Del Toro wants to take a stab at it...

Let us not forget that for all his triumphs, Guillermo del Toro already gave of us one abomination. I speak of course of the Film That Must Not Be Name (also known as Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban).

Honestly, the second Hellboy movie wasn't great either.

HELLBOY. Dude, this book is already well-written and earthshatteringly beautiful. How do you screw it up? HOW? Hire a better scriptwriter! I'd do it for free, god damn you.

[Mekarah]

To play devil's advocate, who says he actually researched anything in any Tevinter book? He could have just been lying about that too, right? Or did I miss something where he is clearly researching in a book. I just replayed that part but I also sometimes...forget/miss things. Easily.

And if Michael Bay did Dragon Age 2, we would need far more Cuba Gooding. He's way better than Ben Affleck.

[SurelyForth]

highcastle wrote...

DreamerM wrote...


Why unfortunately? We don't need a bunch of tanks and jets cutting into The Awesome. Keep the Bay away.

Now, if Guillermo Del Toro wants to take a stab at it...

Let us not forget that for all his triumphs, Guillermo del Toro already gave of us one abomination. I speak of course of the Film That Must Not Be Name (also known as Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban).

Actually, Alfonso Cuaron directed Prisoner of Azkaban, which is my personal favorite of all the HP movies. But that night just be because I loved his more casual/adult approach AND because it's my favorite HP book.

Modifié par SurelyForth, 22 juin 2011 - 04:58 .

[CulturalGeekGirl]

SurelyForth wrote...
Actually, Alfonso Cuaron directed Prisoner of Azkaban, which is my personal favorite of all the HP movies. But that night just be because I loved his more casual/adult approach AND because it's my favorite HP book.

But the mustache.

The mustaaaaaaache.

NEVER FORGET.

[highcastle]

SurelyForth wrote...

highcastle wrote...

DreamerM wrote...


Why unfortunately? We don't need a bunch of tanks and jets cutting into The Awesome. Keep the Bay away.

Now, if Guillermo Del Toro wants to take a stab at it...

Let us not forget that for all his triumphs, Guillermo del Toro already gave of us one abomination. I speak of course of the Film That Must Not Be Name (also known as Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban).

Actually, Alfonso Cuaron directed Prisoner of Azkaban, which is my personal favorite of all the HP movies. But that night just be because I loved his more casual/adult approach AND because it's my favorite HP book.

My bad! I knew something about it didn't sound right.

Hawke!facepalm

[SurelyForth]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...
But the mustache.

The mustaaaaaaache.

NEVER FORGET.

For some reason the mustache stopped bothering me about 15 minutes after Lupin showed up. I guess I should also say that Thewlis is someone that I find hotter the more repulsive he is, which totally confuses things in my head.

I feel like this post needs [creepily shallow] tags.

Modifié par SurelyForth, 22 juin 2011 - 05:14 .

[CulturalGeekGirl]

SurelyForth wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...
But the mustache.

The mustaaaaaaache.

NEVER FORGET.

For some reason the mustache stopped bothering me about 15 minutes after Lupin showed up. I guess I should also say that Thewlis is someone that I find hotter the more repulsive he is, which totally confuses things in my head.

I feel like this post needs [creepily shallow] tags.

Also, to put this back on topic...

Lupin = beginning of a pattern of obsession with scruffy unrested guys who live in poverty and consider themselves monsters? 

COINCIDENCE? (I have the insomnias today. The fun kind.)

Edit for: OMG Lupin/Snape is totally Fenders.

noooooo
Noooooooooooooo!

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 22 juin 2011 - 05:18 .

[SurelyForth]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Also, to put this back on topic...

Lupin obsession = beginning of a pattern of obsession with scruffy unrested guys who live in poverty and consider themselves monsters? 

COINCIDENCE? (I have the insomnias today. The fun kind.)

I certainly don't think so. As a matter of fact...I think I've brought that up before but in a totally different place. 

Now I have the urge to imagine Anders giving my Hawke bits of chocolate every time she starts getting mopey over stuff. 

Modifié par SurelyForth, 22 juin 2011 - 05:20 .

[Furtled]

0o-Constance-o0 wrote...
why did Alistair HAVE TO BE KING. For the whole game he is really devoted to the Grey Warden cause, so why was it allowed that he become king when as a Grey Warden all your titles are denounced and mean nothing?

Alistair doesn't have to be king, you can leave Anora on the throne and keep him in the Grey Wardens - he's inordinately pleased/relieved about it too.

Back on topic(ish): Bay! Noooooo! after the trainwreck of Transformers I hope he never goes near anything else I enjoy.

Modifié par Furtled, 22 juin 2011 - 05:51 .

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Furtled wrote...

0o-Constance-o0 wrote...
why did Alistair HAVE TO BE KING. For the whole game he is really devoted to the Grey Warden cause, so why was it allowed that he become king when as a Grey Warden all your titles are denounced and mean nothing?

Alistair doesn't have to be king, you can leave Anora on the throne and keep him in the Grey Wardens - he's inordinately pleased/relieved about it too.

Indeed. I only put him on the throne when I'm playing my Dalish elf. She knows he's markedly more open-minded and compasisonate than Anora, and will thus make a better ruler, in the dark times ahead (I may also put him on the throne with my Tabris, for a similar and more selfish reason... namely, Anora screws over the city elves. You screw over the city elves, you end up missing most if not all of your blood.) I consider a non-Cousland who makes Alistair king to be making a profound personal sacrifice for the good of the downtrodden.

It's basically the "there are some things more important than love" idea, looked at from the other side.

If you keep him as a Warden, you get to see him palling around with Carver. And he referrs to your Warden as "the love of my life." 

[Furtled]

My canon import warden was a dwarf commoner who tried to follow the rules of the Order as much as possible, so there was no way she was putting Alistair on the throne. Besides, after handing Orzammar over to Behlen Anora looked downright cuddly. Had nothing to do with my first warden getting dumped when he was made king - honest gov.

Always enjoyed the whole duty v love themes in the DA universe and more power to (J)Anders (wahoo! - back on topic) for making the hard choice.

Modifié par Furtled, 22 juin 2011 - 06:21 .