57020 réponses à ce sujet

[Mekarah]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

If you keep him as a Warden, you get to see him palling around with Carver. And he referrs to your Warden as "the love of my life." 

Bah, my save must have been fubared because Warden!Alistair didn't say anything about my warden  And supposedly they ran off into the sunset doing...Grey Warden stuff. I don't know. The game was so bugged after I chose to not make him queen (half of the conversations still said he was) that I wasn't really surprised.

Um...Anders! Getting right to the point! Since I'm far from it.

ETA: Ha what a lucky top. Also I just realized I called Alistair queen. I'm leaving it.

Modifié par Mekarah, 22 juin 2011 - 06:33 .

[CulturalGeekGirl]

maxernst wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...
"Why can't I have a conversation with my friend about a subject they just mentioned?" and "Why can't I do anything at all to help my friend/companion with their personal problem that is directly affecting us all right now?" seem much harder to explain. I could come up with a solid reason why every single one of your scenarios are impossible, but I can't understand why having a conversation about a thing with my friends isn't possible.

Or, to look at it another way, see how the inability to do those certain things reflects upon the characters, if you assume they are unable to do them because of fundamental character traits. I looked at things the respective characters cannot attempt, and divined the most obvious explanation as to why:

Q: Why doesn't the Warden decide to give up fighting the Blight and send her friends on suicide missions?
A: Because the Warden is focused on the blight and doesn't want to send people to their deaths.

Q: Why doesn't Hawke ever try to understand more about the nature of JAnders' situation?
A: Because Hawke isn't that curious or interested about it, or doesn't care, or doesn't think it warrants investigation.

@CGG, that's a very nice way of putting it.  When I first saw the premise of DA2, I was delighted that it wasn't about saving the world.  This was partly because, as much as I enjoyed DA:O, it's a trite premise.  What made DA:O enjoyable was the companion interactions and the subplots, not the main plot.  But it was also because not having the time pressure of an urgent task would allow a player to explore, and potentially have more open-ended gameplay.  It really made little sense to me to be wandering across Ferelden in search of lost caravans on some chantry board quest under the circumstances.

I was disappointed that given that the premise should allow for more freedom for the player, that that opportunity was not taken.  Not just in the Anders situation, but in many places in Act 2, there were times when I simply couldn't understand why Hawke didn't pursue certain lines of investigation further.  And the answer of him simply being incurious, disinterested or apathetic certainly works, but it's hard for me to empathize with.

One last bit of thought on all this. Don't worry, they're thread-topical. This conversation has actually helped me a lot, in narrowing down what I think and figuring out what's really bothering me. I've realized that some of my major issues aren't with DA2, they're specifically with Hawke's part in Anders' romance.

Alistair and Zevran never provided me with a problem that I could neither attempt to understand through discussions with them nor attempt to fix. Whether I succeed or fail isn't the point... when I couldn't resolve a situation, I knew why. I understand completely why I can't marry Alistair on non-noble playthroughs, and why I can't continue the affair on non-hardened playthroughs.

Fenris starts to get a little less... effective. You can sway him slightly when it comes to most of his important issues, and there's no huge problem for him that you can neither investigate nor solve. There are several things you can't change, but why you can't change them is clearly laid out: because whenever you try to talk with him about them, he runs away. Literally! I want to help him with his intimacy issues... but at least I know that when I try, he runs away or shuts down. I'm shown this, at least.

Anders is different. They give you a serious problem and no way to either investigate or attempt to assist him with it, beyond the "hey, it's potion time!" quest at the very end. And... and this is the important bit... no explanation as to why you can't investigate or help him with it. If we'd gotten a Fenris-style dash-out scene, or an Alistair-style "I have made this decision and you can't convince me otherwise!" scene, I'd feel better.

Beyond that, I think it may have to do with the number of interactivity points in a conversation. I just watched Alistair's rose scene, and it has six interactivity points where your PC had 3-5 different choices. These varied between outright rejection, affectionate teasing, mean teasing, utter sweetness, bluntness, obliviousness, and outright  come-ons. Compare that to most of the Anders scenes: fewer interactivity points with a more narrow variety of options. I think some of the issue here stems from combining romance scenes with normal dialogue-quest scenes, though.

[Patchwork]

Poor Alistair never gets to stay a gray warden in my games. The elves want the shem they trust in power, my Cousland's for different reasons wanted to be queen, and although it wasn't the plan I'm glad my mage set Alistair up to rule jointly with Anora considering the alternatives if you recruit Loghain.

I'm doing a full Amell run at the moment perhaps I'll let Anora rule alone.    

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Furtled wrote...
My canon import warden was a dwarf commoner who tried to follow the rules of the Order as much as possible, so there was no way she was putting Alistair on the throne. Besides, after handing Orzammar over to Behlen Anora looked downright cuddly. Had nothing to do with my first warden getting dumped when he was made king - honest gov.

Always enjoyed the whole duty v love themes in the DA universe and more power to (J)Anders (wahoo! - back on topic) for making the hard choice.

As my game progressed, my Mahariel got more addicted to changing the world and developed less concern for her personal well-being. Maybe that's why I identify so closely with Anders... because I can totally see someone saying "OK, you know what? There's no concievable happy ending for my life at this point. Time to fight for everyone else until I die or save everyone." 

Does anyone know what causes the "love" bugs? I've had both Alistair and Zev bug out on me in imports. I don't mind Zev so much, because honestly I don't expect to keep him leashed, but Ali breaks the heart.

[Furtled]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...
Does anyone know what causes the "love" bugs? I've had both Alistair and Zev bug out on me in imports. I don't mind Zev so much, because honestly I don't expect to keep him leashed, but Ali breaks the heart.

My Brosca just got more into the wahoo! no one's spitting on me! thing as it went along - and not sure what causes the bugs, iirc they said they'd fixed the Zevran ones in the latest patch, not sure about the Alistair related one. I hope for the devs sake there's nothing similar in the DLC if Anders is involved or we may see virtual pitchforks.

@Queen-Of-Stuff  There's actually dialogue where he says 'thanks for not making me King' and stops referring to himself as such, it's fixed in either IRS Alistair or the ZDF dialog fix PC mods (can't remember which one sorts that particular problem).

Modifié par Furtled, 22 juin 2011 - 07:10 .

[DAYtheELF]

DreamerM wrote...
*snip*

I'm gonna call it right now and say this is the "Kitten for Anders" DLC that we've been waiting for forever. It contains nothing but a "Small Tabby Kitten" item that you can give to Anders, and he will make squee noises for the rest of the game.

I know this is an old post/ topic now, but I just had to say that I would pay good, good money for this to be the mystery DLC and would not be disappointed at all.<3<3<3<3

[Mekarah]

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...

The game isn't bugged, by the way. After the Landsmeet, there is literally no alternative dialogue in the scenario that you don't king him. Which is really strange? Unless the devs simply forgot about it. Or thought Anora was so unlikable that they figured none would queen her. Poor girl.

Now I wonder what Alistair would look like if he was a woman...

You know, it's funny, I actually wondered if that was the case.  When I came to him for the DR on that playthrough and he was talking about being king, I kept thinking, did they just figure no one would want him to not be king...?

As for the Anders kitten DLC, we all already know my feelings on this (read: want). I think it would be best if giving it to him put a little cat in that walked around his clinic, and whenever you went there Anders would wiggle string at it and play with it.

No I did not give this serious thought, what do you mean?

[ashyraine]

Mekarah wrote...

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...

The game isn't bugged, by the way. After the Landsmeet, there is literally no alternative dialogue in the scenario that you don't king him. Which is really strange? Unless the devs simply forgot about it. Or thought Anora was so unlikable that they figured none would queen her. Poor girl.

Now I wonder what Alistair would look like if he was a woman...

You know, it's funny, I actually wondered if that was the case.  When I came to him for the DR on that playthrough and he was talking about being king, I kept thinking, did they just figure no one would want him to not be king...?

As for the Anders kitten DLC, we all already know my feelings on this (read: want). I think it would be best if giving it to him put a little cat in that walked around his clinic, and whenever you went there Anders would wiggle string at it and play with it.

No I did not give this serious thought, what do you mean?

It is a bug, and modders have fixed it. One of the reasons I'm glad I play the PC version. And one of the MANY reasons we need a toolset for DA2

Alistair:
-Alistair no longer refers to himself as king if he isn't king.
-If
you are marrying Alistair for political reasons and are at Friendly or
Warm, Alistair will now give the proper dialog at the post-coronation
ceremony.
-When discussing the dark ritual with Alistair, responses
that should be available only to a hostile/neutral Warden no longer
appear for all Wardens
-The proper "still in love" dialogs should appear if Alistair is still in love with the warden.
-At
the funeral, if Alistair is still in love but Zevran or Leliana are in
love, Alistair will give the friendship dialog so the camera will focus
on the love interest.
-During the conversation Alistair has about
the other companions, the choice, "He and I have a connection" appears
when the romance is active with Zevran, as intended.
-Alistair now
discusses not being made king with the warden if the warden becomes
engaged to Anora or makes Anora the solo queen.
-If you do Alistair's
personal quest after the Landsmeet is over and Alistair is not king, he
will no longer be called king, though Goldanna will still call him a
prince a couple of times.
-The broken cutscene when Alistair propositions the warden is now fixed. The elf and human kisses were repaired by tmp7704.
-Unlocks a dialog in Ostegar regarding the joining when speaking with Alistair.

Linky to ejoselin's awesome mod: ZDF


oh and um andersbutt! /ontopic

[beckaliz]

Mekarah wrote...

To play devil's advocate, who says he actually researched anything in any Tevinter book? He could have just been lying about that too, right? Or did I miss something where he is clearly researching in a book. I just replayed that part but I also sometimes...forget/miss things. Easily.

And if Michael Bay did Dragon Age 2, we would need far more Cuba Gooding. He's way better than Ben Affleck.

Making explosions THAT MASSIVE is not what I would think is common knowledge. He'd have to do SOME kind of research, at least at some point in his life. And I think until he arrived in Kirkwall, he would have been on the move too much to do any of that. Also, I don't think he'd have had the drive to do something that drastic until his final decline into mania between Act 2 and 3.

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

It's basically the "there are some things more important than love" idea, looked at from the other side. 

If you keep him as a Warden, you get to see him palling around with Carver. And he referrs to your Warden as "the love of my life." 

Aawwwww, really? ;o; That's wonderful!! I can't wait to get to that point with Aniselle Hawke.  I luvs me Reyonii & Alistair.

[beckaliz]

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...

I thought it wasn't a bug because several modders have said that it wasn't. Ah, well. My bad, then.

I wish I had the chance to give Anders a kitty. Hell, I wish I had the chance to give everyone in Kirkwall a kitty. It would fix everything. Meredith's would be silver-gray with yellow eyes and short fur that she would brush incessantly.

Well, there certainly would be a bit less starvation around the place... 

[BlueMew]

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...
Yeah, he called my Warden an "old friend" in the imports where he's a Grey Warden romancing my own. I should throw something at his stupid head. Gah.

The game isn't bugged, by the way. After the Landsmeet, there is literally no alternative dialogue in the scenario that you don't king him. Which is really strange? Unless the devs simply forgot about it. Or thought Anora was so unlikable that they figured none would queen her. Poor girl.

Uh. I didn't harden Alistair, made Anora queen because I think she's far better suited to it and my Warden and Alistair ran off to do Grey Warden... stuff. Seriously, I had no tendency to king him at all.

Btw I think there's a fix for that dialogue? Or something? Let me know if it works, I'm not patched yet, and I'll wait for that before I override anything.

http://social.biowar...t/4364/#details

[maxernst]

beckaliz wrote...

Mekarah wrote...

To play devil's advocate, who says he actually researched anything in any Tevinter book? He could have just been lying about that too, right? Or did I miss something where he is clearly researching in a book. I just replayed that part but I also sometimes...forget/miss things. Easily.

And if Michael Bay did Dragon Age 2, we would need far more Cuba Gooding. He's way better than Ben Affleck.

Making explosions THAT MASSIVE is not what I would think is common knowledge. He'd have to do SOME kind of research, at least at some point in his life. And I think until he arrived in Kirkwall, he would have been on the move too much to do any of that. Also, I don't think he'd have had the drive to do something that drastic until his final decline into mania between Act 2 and 3.

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

It's basically the "there are some things more important than love" idea, looked at from the other side. 

If you keep him as a Warden, you get to see him palling around with Carver. And he referrs to your Warden as "the love of my life." 

Aawwwww, really? ;o; That's wonderful!! I can't wait to get to that point with Aniselle Hawke.  I luvs me Reyonii & Alistair.

Maybe it only happens if you have Carver with you?  When I came across Warden Alistair he made no reference to my Warden.

[Mekarah]

maxernst wrote...

Maybe it only happens if you have Carver with you?  When I came across Warden Alistair he made no reference to my Warden.

Hm you mean, if Carver is a warden he won't say that? I had Warden!Carver and Warden!Alistair and Warden Alistair mentioned my Warden but not in a love of my life kind of way

[beckaliz]

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...

beckaliz wrote...

Well, there certainly would be a bit less starvation around the place... 

...

You ruined my brilliant plan. I don't like you anymore.

Buh-buh-but...!  I didnae mean to. Don't hate meeee! T_T Just for being a realist. ;~;

[beckaliz]

In Correm's PT Alistair only mentions that he promised on his pinky (squee! so cute~!!) not to tell the Warden's secrets, but Bethany was in the circle and not a warden. So Alistair didn't have a sibling to banter with. Tissa's Bethany died in the deep roads. Aniselle's Carver is a Warden... I haven't gotten far enough with her yet.  BLAST YOU USPS FOR DELIVERING MY XBOX WHILE I WAS GONE! *shakes fist* I neeeeed to finish with Correm, so I can execute Anders and get it over with and MOVE ON to a new friendmance that runs away with him. T-T


OH! QUESTION! Can you run away with him just as buddies? Because Aniselle is rivalmancing Fenris, but she'd totally take up Anders's cause and follow him...

Modifié par beckaliz, 22 juin 2011 - 09:00 .

[Mekarah]

beckaliz wrote...

OH! QUESTION! Can you run away with him just as buddies? Because Aniselle is rivalmancing Fenris, but she'd totally take up Anders's cause and follow him...

I think the only person that stays with Hawke in the end is the love interest, at least according to Varric. Your headcanon can do whatever it likes

[DAYtheELF]

beckaliz wrote...

 I like the Malcolm-books irony, too, actually. Irony is fun.  Though for mage!Hawke it seems unlikely that s/he wouldn't know what it was.
How would he have gotten the recipe from the Qunari? They're pretty scary when it comes to protecting that stuff. Then again... those guys DID leave in a hurry, and quite a bit of chaos. That actually sounds pretty feasible.

Once again, a bit late I know.  Anyways, Anders did not have to get the recipe from the Qunari to learn a bit about mundane explosions.  Remember - He was there in Awakenings at Vigil's Keep with the crazy dwarf that like to explode things.....

[beckaliz]

DAYtheELF wrote...
Once again, a bit late I know.  Anyways, Anders did not have to get the recipe from the Qunari to learn a bit about mundane explosions.  Remember - He was there in Awakenings at Vigil's Keep with the crazy dwarf that like to explode things.....

That's true. But I wouldn't necessarily consider those kinds of explosions to be "mundane"... They required lyrium, and they required the Good Stuff, so the raw lyrium crafting sources that Hawke finds around Kirkwall, Sundermount, etc would not be refined enough. At least I'd think not. And I don't know how that gets refined. Maybe he did just have to do that. But the red glowy makes me think of the red of raw lyrium... Awgh.

Mekarah wrote...

beckaliz wrote...
OH! QUESTION! Can you run away with him just as buddies? Because Aniselle is rivalmancing Fenris, but she'd totally take up Anders's cause and follow him...

I think the only person that stays with Hawke in the end is the love interest, at least according to Varric. Your headcanon can do whatever it likes

Headcanon FTW! 


......................

AND OMG GAIZ I went to the post office just in case my xbox was there and I wouldn't have to wait until the morning AND IT WAS THERE. So bye! XD I'm in withdrawal, SRSLY. See you tomorrow hahahahah!

(Yeah I'm crazy. I'm not denying it. <3 you all)

Modifié par beckaliz, 22 juin 2011 - 09:52 .

[LT123]

@CGG I've never participated in watching the Rocky Horror Picture Show, but I've heard enough about it to really like the comparison you made. It's kind of going to a melodrama, isn't it? You cheer for the good guys, boo the bad guys, and throw popcorn. And with DA2 you'd be yelling your favorite lines, chanting "Plot Armor" whenever Petrice shows up, trying to sing along with Fenris' theme (because he's the only one who got a theme song whhhyyy), etc.

Now I'm picturing the entire Anders Thread watching someone play DA2 on a huge screen and doing this.

*Wesley shows up* Thread: "The Order Dictates!"
*Varric's scene in Bartrand's estate* Thread: Say hello, Bianca!
*kiss scene* Thread: Hot!
*romance scene" Thread: Want a sandwich? I want you right here til the day we die!
*Sebastian at the end* Thread: MAKER NO!

Also, I'm glad I play on PC, because on my first playthrough Alistair was up on the roof going "I want to die so I'll be a good king" and I was going, "You're not king, idiot!" ZDF is awesome.

[DAYtheELF]

Dragon Age's facebook page has a poll asking who your fav DA2 char is.... and ANDERS IS NOT WINNING.  FIX THIS PEOPLE!

http://www.facebook....44367&qa_ref=qd

[Evilnor]

Re: the bomb

Did anyone mention the fact that there is a book in the Unstable Solutions section of the Fereldan Circle Tower library regarding lyrium bombs? You can find this in the Witch Hunt DLC. I almost don't mind that it's so short because of all the delicious foreshadowing and hilarious references. (2 references to Harry Potter, and several to Anders, Kirkwall and the events that happen there) Not to mention the fact that I saw someone brought up about Dworkin's lyrium-based explosives. With all the lyrium smugglers running through Darktown to supply the Gallows, I'm sure it wasn't too much of a stretch for Anders to get his hands on significant quantities of the stuff.

I also support Sandal's involvement in the bomb.