57020 réponses à ce sujet

[ipgd]

DreamerM wrote...

What if you're unwilling to pay the $7 for an archer so Sabastian doesn't exist?

Logically, I can get that he doesn't like Anders, but taking his entire city-state to war over the fate of one dude, even one horrible war criminal, doesn't strike me as a reasonable thing to do.

What does reasonable have to do with it? Does no one ever make unreasonable decisions?

Sebastian still exists. Hepler pretty heavily implied he would be back in some significant capacity. The fact there is no way to kill him supports this.

Cassandra doesn't react at all when Anders comes up. She mentions him as a rogue Gray Warden, but if she knew HE was the one who blew up the Chantry, she doesn't care.

This can easily be explained by the fact they did not want to spoil their own game. We do not know enough to say anything about it.

Ryzaki wrote...

It has to make perfect sense for whatever she thinks the story is. 

Which begs the question what rumors are going around that would make her think the Wardens being involved makes perfect sense? 

We don't know. We know next to nothing about the rumors. That is my point.

Regardless, people believe much more ridiculous conspiracy theories than that. Hello, moon landing.

Modifié par ipgd, 23 juin 2011 - 05:32 .

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Song time again!

So, a few days ago I saw the Neil Patrick Harris revival of Stephen Sondheim's Company they were showing in movie theaters. I thought I'd managed to do what has been, so far for me, impossible: go through an entire musical without finding a song that in some way was relevant for Anders. And why should there be an Anders-relevant song in Company? It's a play about 30-somethings in New York city.

But when I got home, I started to get obsessed with Sorry-Grateful (link is to a non-professional vocal performance which is still quite good. How I WISH I had the Stephen Colbert version from the movie). The funny thing is, in the context of Company, this song makes completely no sense for Anders. But divorced from context, the lyrics are perfect for the three year period where they're living together. The little arguing-with-yourself bits are especially perfect for the Justice/Anders uncertainty.

You're always sorry
You're always grateful
You're always wondering what might have been
Then she walks in

And still you're sorry
And still you're grateful
And still you wonder
And still you doubt
And she goes out

Everything's different
Nothing's changed
Only maybe slightly rearranged

You're sorry-grateful
Regretful-happy
Why look for answers
Where none occur?

You always are
What you always were
Which has nothing to do with
All to do with her

You're always sorry
You're always grateful
You hold her thinking
I'm not alone
You're still alone

You don't live for her
You do live with her
You're scared she's starting
To drift away
And scared she'll stay

Good things get better
Bad get worse
Wait, I think I meant that in reverse

You're sorry-grateful
Regretful-happy
Why look for answers
Where none occur
You'll always be
What you always were
Which has nothing to do with
All to do with her

Nothing to do with
All to do with her

(Edit: they interview Stephen Colbert about his part in the musical on NPR here, with a clip of his version early on in the interview.)

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 23 juin 2011 - 06:17 .

[DreamerM]

Ooh is it Song Time??

Here's one that might run through the mind of a guy who can't be sure what's real or fake anymore, his body just moves by itself sometimes, and the people around him die...

Dropping like Flies, Firewater.
(caution: Contains 90s)



And you cry, trying to find a voice

That reminds you of your own

But every word

That passes from your lips

Is counterfeit, illegitimate

[DAYtheELF]

Side note: Just read the last couple chapters of The Whole Sky Shaken by Hi-C. Oh man, at the one point where it talked about Bohdan festooning the estate in ruffles I immediately thought of "Festooning his ruffles" (see Adam Howden's twitter....) and nearly died.

[xRiseAboveThis]

The last verse of the song Evelyn Evelyn by Evelyn Evelyn always makes me think of Anders and Justice, around the time when Anders realizes that he's losing himself to Justice. (It's a duet, so I'll bold the Justice lines and italicize the Anders lines.)

We grew up so very close.
A parasite needs a host.
I’m only trying to do what is best for us.
Well, I never asked for this, I never wanted this.
All that I want is some time to myself.
Looking in your eyes, I’m coming home.
Just get away from me, please just stop touching me.
You’re always trying to be somebody else.
Now I realize I’m not alone.
Well, you’re only scared of me.
But you never cared for me.
Why don’t you let me free?
‘Cause you’d never dare to be.
‘Cause you never listen, you’re always insisting.
I'm just reminiscing,
Just stop reminiscing,
I feel something missing.
I just want you here with me,
I just want my privacy
God, can't we just get along?
God, won't you leave me alone?

There's also a line earlier in the song, (Do you think I should marry him?/But we just met him yesterday), that always makes me laugh because of how quickly Anders starts flirting with Hawke.

[ademska]

and this right here is the precise reason i hope dlc and da3 don't address in explicit detail what anders (and hawke) are up to. everyone's got their own, very different interpretations based on what amounts to virtually no real information, though we can make the broadest of educated guesses.

learning that the dlc was chronologically pre-endgame made me pee rainbows a little, i'm not gonna lie. danke for not ruining my fun speculative times, guys

[schnln01]

beckaliz wrote...
Hmm, could be. Cullen doesn't trust mages but he doesn't think they should be abused. (My game was imported from a Surana!Warden female so Cullen was in love with the Hero. Which is never acknowledged at all, poo.) So mages could be like, Hey! The Champion didn't like her either! ... But my initial reaction was that it was more along the lines of, "Dammit Champion you went along with annulling the Circle grrr!" But you're right, in the end you can tell Meredith to shove it. Especially since she wants to execute you FOR NO GOOD REASON ****.

He acknowledged my Amell!Warden, which I thought was cute. 

But my Templar game was too sad for me, proMages and Anders all the way for me. ^.^;;

[DreamerM]

schnln01 wrote...
He acknowledged my Amell!Warden, which I thought was cute. 

"She was a special woman."

How right you are, ser.

[maxernst]

Well, if we're on the subject of Anders appropriate music, how about this from Alan Parsons Project:

My eyes with your vision
My choice but always your decision
My play with your direction
Well it's my lead but always your connection

But when I look into your eyes you don't believe me
I can see it in your eyes you don't believe

My words, your expression
My land, always your possession
My song, your production
My expense is always your deduction

But when I look into your eyes you don't believe me
I can see it in your eyes you don't believe

And the face I see before me
Is both sides of a mirror
You really know you've got a hold on me
And the face you're looking into
Is both sides of a window
And any way you look you see through me

My fame, your reflection
My weakness always your protection
Well it's my terms on your conditions
And they're my tunes but they're your compositions

But when I look into your eyes you don't believe me
I can see it in your eyes you don't believe

[Jean]

SurelyForth wrote...

See, I think Anders likes cats but isn't craaaaazy about cats. If he were that chick levels of into cats, his clinic would be full of all the ones he'd saved from the refugees.

[BlueMew]

DreamerM wrote...

What if you're unwilling to pay the $7 for an archer so Sabastian doesn't exist?

I did that. Not just because of Anders. Sebastian is made of suck. If I wanted some annoying priestly idiot who's full of himself quote Thou Shalt Nots at me, I could just turn on the tv.

ipgd wrote...
Sebastian still exists. Hepler pretty heavily implied he would be back in some significant capacity. The fact there is no way to kill him supports this.

Well. I hope she doesn't get her way. Or that it gets cut, or something, unless we can kill him before he does anything. Like... open his mouth

Modifié par BlueMew, 23 juin 2011 - 08:09 .

[CulturalGeekGirl]

I just got this image of the Warden training half a dozen lookalikes to go around from town to town thwarting bandits and kissing babies, just to create the impression of omnipotence/omnipresence.

[DAYtheELF]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

I just got this image of the Warden training half a dozen lookalikes to go around from town to town thwarting bandits and kissing babies, just to create the impression of omnipotence/omnipresence.

This is an amazing image.  I can totally see my first Warden doing that. 

[DAYtheELF]

Spoiler Alert - Here is a bit of info on the achievements that can be unlocked from the new mystery DLC.  Unfortunately "Tabby Kitten" isnt listed.... yet.

http://social.biowar...ex/7714767&lf=8

[Reflection Muse]

DAYtheELF wrote...

Spoiler Alert - Here is a bit of info on the achievements that can be unlocked from the new mystery DLC.  Unfortunately "Tabby Kitten" isnt listed.... yet.

http://social.biowar...ex/7714767&lf=8

Vimmark Mountains, eh? Hmmm, interesting. Not what I was expecting.

[ademska]

eeeeee this has me so excited, since i think we can reasonably conclude it's a long dlc (main + sidequests) and has something to do maybe with malcolm or the amells, "family legacy" and all

sebastian's such a pious little sh*t but in an enjoyable way. he's so well-written that i can't help but love to hate him.

that said, he's so useless as a person that i can't imagine he'd manage to be such a huge part of da3's plot. plus there's the whole thing where his fate would potentially be drastically altered depending on whether anders is spared. two of the three options let you spare him, but a lot of people kill him, so reconciling that would be a nightmare. ugh, and even then if you kill anders, hawke's influence on sebastian still leads him to a divergent choice.

[DreamerM]

Time for another Musical Interlude.

I've heard this song so many times that I don't think about it anymore. Until I was listening to it while sketching some Anders fanart. Suddenly it turned into the best illustration of Hawke/Anders's relationship, and the regrets that mount as a result, that I've found.

Lyrics to How To Save A Life :


Step one you say we need to talk

He walks you say sit down it's just a talk

He smiles politely back at you

You stare politely right on through

Some sort of window to your right

As he goes left and you stay right

Between the lines of fear and blame

You begin to wonder why you came



CHORUS:

Where did I go wrong, I lost a friend

Somewhere along in the bitterness

And I would have stayed up with you all night

Had I known how to save a life



Let him know that you know best

Cause after all you do know best

Try to slip past his defense

Without granting innocence

Lay down a list of what is wrong

The things you've told him all along

And pray to God he hears you

And pray to God he hears you



CHORUS:

Where did I go wrong, I lost a friend

Somewhere along in the bitterness

And I would have stayed up with you all night

Had I known how to save a life



As he begins to raise his voice

You lower yours and grant him one last choice

Drive until you lose the road

Or break with the ones you've followed

He will do one of two things

He will admit to everything

Or he'll say he's just not the same

And you'll begin to wonder why you came



CHORUS:

Where did I go wrong, I lost a friend

Somewhere along in the bitterness

And I would have stayed up with you all night

Had I known how to save a life



CHORUS:

Where did I go wrong, I lost a friend

Somewhere along in the bitterness

And I would have stayed up with you all night

Had I known how to save a life

How to save a life

How to save a life



CHORUS:

Where did I go wrong, I lost a friend

Somewhere along in the bitterness

And I would have stayed up with you all night

Had I known how to save a life



CHORUS:

Where did I go wrong, I lost a friend

Somewhere along in the bitterness

And I would have stayed up with you all night

Had I known how to save a life

How to save a life


Step one you say we need to talk

He walks you say sit down it's just a talk

He smiles politely back at you

You stare politely right on through

Some sort of window to your right

As he goes left and you stay right

Between the lines of fear and blame

You begin to wonder why you came



CHORUS:

Where did I go wrong, I lost a friend

Somewhere along in the bitterness

And I would have stayed up with you all night

Had I known how to save a life



Let him know that you know best

Cause after all you do know best

Try to slip past his defense

Without granting innocence

Lay down a list of what is wrong

The things you've told him all along

And pray to God he hears you

And pray to God he hears you



CHORUS:

Where did I go wrong, I lost a friend

Somewhere along in the bitterness

And I would have stayed up with you all night

Had I known how to save a life



As he begins to raise his voice

You lower yours and grant him one last choice

Drive until you lose the road

Or break with the ones you've followed

He will do one of two things

He will admit to everything

Or he'll say he's just not the same

And you'll begin to wonder why you came



CHORUS:

Where did I go wrong, I lost a friend

Somewhere along in the bitterness

And I would have stayed up with you all night

Had I known how to save a life



CHORUS:

Where did I go wrong, I lost a friend

Somewhere along in the bitterness

And I would have stayed up with you all night

Had I known how to save a life

How to save a life

How to save a life



CHORUS:

Where did I go wrong, I lost a friend

Somewhere along in the bitterness

And I would have stayed up with you all night

Had I known how to save a life



CHORUS:

Where did I go wrong, I lost a friend

Somewhere along in the bitterness

And I would have stayed up with you all night

Had I known how to save a life

How to save a life

[ipgd]

ademska wrote...

that said, he's so useless as a person that i can't imagine he'd manage to be such a huge part of da3's plot. plus there's the whole thing where his fate would potentially be drastically altered depending on whether anders is spared. two of the three options let you spare him, but a lot of people kill him, so reconciling that would be a nightmare. ugh, and even then if you kill anders, hawke's influence on sebastian still leads him to a divergent choice.

That's what character development and bottlenecks are for.

After all, he did say he would retake Starkhaven if the Maker "gave him a sign". Elthina's death is a pretty big sign, dead Anders or no.

[Reflection Muse]

You know, the thing that irked me most about Sebastian is really, really shallow, and I'll totally admit that. Any man who is too much of a prude to give me a damn kiss is not very appealing to me. I could have understood wanting to remain chaste and not go any farther than that, but come on.

Modifié par Reflection Muse, 23 juin 2011 - 09:19 .

[mellifera]

Eh, I don't get the rage over Sebastian's chastity. It's not like he keeps it a secret or anything, it's your own fault for trying to get in the pants of a boring annoying useless man who took vows of chastity. Either you honour his wishes and stay with him anyway (though I can't see anything about his personality or actions that would make you want to do that) or move on.

Modifié par yukidama, 23 juin 2011 - 09:28 .

[ademska]

ipgd wrote...

ademska wrote...

that said, he's so useless as a person that i can't imagine he'd manage to be such a huge part of da3's plot. plus there's the whole thing where his fate would potentially be drastically altered depending on whether anders is spared. two of the three options let you spare him, but a lot of people kill him, so reconciling that would be a nightmare. ugh, and even then if you kill anders, hawke's influence on sebastian still leads him to a divergent choice.

That's what character development and bottlenecks are for.

After all, he did say he would retake Starkhaven if the Maker "gave him a sign". Elthina's death is a pretty big sign, dead Anders or no.

i'm amenable to the character development, it's more the logistics of how drastically different his paths are. i mean i've only killed anders the one time but basically on one side of the spectrum you've got a possibly-crowned prince with vengeful vendetta against hawke and anders and on the other you've got a dead anders and a sebastian who's running about with fugitive hawke.

it's not that i don't think sebastian's endings couldn't be reasonably funneled down, it's that his stuff is entirely contingent on hawke's stuff, and seeing a game where sebastian is a big part of the plot is as difficult for me to imagine as a game where hawke's choices are massively incorporated.

but hey, leliana, so, who knows?

Modifié par ademska, 23 juin 2011 - 09:31 .

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Yeah, Making Sebbie the same class as the most beloved character in the entire game was not the smartest thing. I can't imagine bringing him instead of Varric.

I actually like him as a narrative tool, because he is the perfect face for the "good" aspects of the Chantry, especially with his banters with the companions. He's one of the only people who is kind and forgiving toward Merril, which surprises me. He even acknowledges that maybe the elven gods are "just another aspect of the Maker." And his little sermons to Fenris are at least meant well. He even has some patience for Anders, before the end, but it's there that he shows how limited his views are and how unwilling the average Chantry brother is to consider new ideas.

Honestly, after all of Elthina's "if the maker wills it," one of my Hawke's possible quips for the Chantry going up is "Welp, the Maker must not have liked THAT building." Whenever anyone starts to say that all things are fated or destined, I end up thinking things like that. Or, better yet: 

"Ser, the demolitions materials were placed at a key point in the structure, causing it to explode in the most dramatic way."
"Well I guess Anders had access to..." /puts on sunglasses. "the Maker's plan."

YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 23 juin 2011 - 09:36 .