57020 réponses à ce sujet

[DreamerM]

Evilnor wrote...

Speculations on Anders made Tranquil always reminds me of this.

This should have been in the game.

Heck, you can sell Fenris back into slavery for less reason then you'd have to call the Templars on a murderous Abomination. Yet it's never, ever an option.

The Twist at the end is the best. Hello Jetheny....

[Ryzaki]

ipgd wrote...
They aren't really equivalent. It isn't a slippery slope. Anders follows Hawke when he phrases it as something like "help me clean up this mess/stop this war". There isn't exactly any sort of way to phrase "let's go sever you from the Fade" in a way Anders would be able to "misunderstand". It's a combination of his broken spirit, distrust of his own judgment and inability to fully, rationally process information in his mental state.

Even on some strange planet where he would make a temporary acquiescence, there is no way he would agree to it long enough to settle the chaos, get the equipment and actually perform the Rite. Even with siding with the Templars, he very clearly regrets it and makes it plain he intends to kill himself by the time you make it to the Gallows. He would have more than enough time to realize what he'd agreed to and get out of it, probably through suicide.

Except Hawke isn't the one who says that. Anders is the one who says let's stop this war. And saying Hawke would bring it up when there's still chaos isn't something that will always be true. 

And "let's go sever you from thefade." would be the absolute worst way to pitch that idea. "let's stop Justice from hurting another mage like he did you." would be far better (as you said though Hawke would need some proof that there was a chance of the RoT destroying Justice or forcing him back into the fade). 

That said even if he did disagree there's nothing stopping Hawke from forcing Anders into it.

But we're not gonna agree. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 24 juin 2011 - 01:25 .

[Ryzaki]

DreamerM wrote...

Evilnor wrote...

Speculations on Anders made Tranquil always reminds me of this.

This should have been in the game.

Heck, you can sell Fenris back into slavery for less reason then you'd have to call the Templars on a murderous Abomination. Yet it's never, ever an option.

The Twist at the end is the best. Hello Jetheny....

 

Really. You can tell Cullen but all he says is "I'll look into it." 

Plot railroading at it's finest.  

The twist at the end however...don't see Bethany being willing to let Justice take over and unlike a corpse she's capable of fighting back. 

And of course it begs the question how did Beth get out of the circle, where did she come in from (since she gave Hawke the only copy of the cellarkey), how did she get in? Picked the lock? That's Isabela's skillset not Bethany's. (she never got a house key. She'd have no use for it. Why didn't the mabari react to her breaking in (family especially he should've been barking in excitement).) and yeah...I think about things like that too much. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 24 juin 2011 - 01:31 .

[ipgd]

Ryzaki wrote...

Except Hawke isn't the one who says that. Anders is the one who says let's stop this war.

I was paraphrasing. He says "Help me restore order." Anders is extrapolating from that statement.

And saying Hawke would bring it up when there's still chaos isn't something that will always be true.

By the time the chaos is done Anders would no longer be in a damaged enough mental state to consent to it. He's regaining cognizance by the time you reach the Gallows.

That said even if he did disagree there's nothing stopping Hawke from forcing Anders into it.

I am aware. I never said he could not be forced, though he would likely take any measure up to and including immolating himself to stop it. The argument was about him consenting to it.

But we're not gonna agree.

I have no idea why you post if you have this response to arguments :innocent:

[DreamerM]

Ryzaki wrote...

Really. You can tell Cullen but all he says is "I'll look into it." 

Plot railoroading at it's finest. 

No kidding! You can't even RP it away with "Well I need him to help me stop the Blight" (which is how my Devout Chantry Believer Cousland justified protecting Morrigan from the Templars before Morrigan became her friend). You aren't given any reason NOT to hand him over, besides that he's a party member.

Not that I'd WANT to hand him over, mind you, but if you can get Alistair executed by Anora, you should be able to oh nevermind. I've lost the will. Just lost it.

[legbamel]

Maaia wrote...
There is just something about Anders that is nearly irresistible. I have to say,
The Kiss - and (pants) - is what won me over during my first run. I was
totally [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/andy.png[/smilie][smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/w00t.png[/smilie][smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie][smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/love.png[/smilie]

Anyways, just thought I'd venture out and say hi!

Delayed reaction, but this made my brain say, "Anders always wears robes because he's saving his (pants) for Hawke."  Then said brain insisted on reverting to the gutter where the dirty pictures live. 

[Ryzaki]

ipgd wrote...I have no idea why you post if you have this response to arguments  :innocent:

 

Because I dislike giant walls of text when I can see the outcome from a mile away. It's a time saver when I don't feel particularly strong about the arguement and thus the back and forth becomes pointless because it's going nowhere. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 24 juin 2011 - 01:33 .

[ipgd]

DreamerM wrote...

No kidding! You can't even RP it away with "Well I need him to help me stop the Blight" (which is how my Devout Chantry Believer Cousland justified protecting Morrigan from the Templars before Morrigan became her friend). You aren't given any reason NOT to hand him over, besides that he's a party member.

Not that I'd WANT to hand him over, mind you, but if you can get Alistair executed by Anora, you should be able to oh nevermind. I've lost the will. Just lost it.

RP that Hawke owes him for the Deep Roads maps/Bethany/Carver's life. RP that he has knowledge that could implicate Hawke in crimes, or alert the templars to mage!Hawke/Bethany in turn. RP that you really need him to heal all of Hawke's and Isabela's STDs.

There are any number of ways to handwave it that are no less ridiculous than the reason why you could not turn in Morrigan.

Ryzaki wrote...

Because I dislike giant walls of text when I can see the outcome from a mile away. It's a time saver when I don't feel particularly strong about the arguement and thus the back and forth becomes pointless because it's going nowhere. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/joyful.png[/smilie]

But you start them all the same. Repeatedly. Not seeing the point!

You kinda can't expect people to not disagree with you when you post things on a public forum.

Modifié par ipgd, 24 juin 2011 - 01:37 .

[Evilnor]

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...

DreamerM wrote...

The Twist at the end is the best. Hello Jetheny....

Well, Justice did express an interest in trying a female body...

And, ignoring the fact that Beth is my sister, there are few better ones that he could have picked. /deranged

Quite true.  With Bethany in the Circle, there's little argument that she wouldn't have known what happened, and to condemn one of your friends to Tranquility . . . that Rite is something Bethany has feared all her life, more than death.  Plus, Justice and Bethany know each other already.  It's not too much of a stretch, I think. 

Regardless, I thought the end would be rather poetic . . . and certainly open to interpretation 

[maxernst]

DreamerM wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Really. You can tell Cullen but all he says is "I'll look into it." 

Plot railoroading at it's finest. 

No kidding! You can't even RP it away with "Well I need him to help me stop the Blight" (which is how my Devout Chantry Believer Cousland justified protecting Morrigan from the Templars before Morrigan became her friend). You aren't given any reason NOT to hand him over, besides that he's a party member.

Not that I'd WANT to hand him over, mind you, but if you can get Alistair executed by Anora, you should be able to oh nevermind. I've lost the will. Just lost it.

There's a lot of that in the game.  I think Mother Petrice is a blood mage who mind controls Hawke.

[Ryzaki]

UGH. Are you kidding? A triple post? 

Blargh. WHat I was trying to say before my comp fritzed for some reason was I never said I didn't expect people to disagree. That would be ridculous. Plus the agitation and snide remarks are humorous. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 24 juin 2011 - 01:45 .

[Ryzaki]

Ugh. 

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Your triple posts are as endearing as your typos

Thanks KoP. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 24 juin 2011 - 01:52 .

[Ryzaki]

I hate my comp today. Sorry about the TP. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 24 juin 2011 - 01:44 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Your triple posts are as endearing as your typos

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 24 juin 2011 - 01:49 .

[Amondra]

 

Anders for everyone, in cute chibi Janders form. 

[Ryzaki]

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...

I once managed to quadruple post in an editing attempt. Boy, was that embarrassing.

 

I'm not sure how they did it but I saw about 3 pages worth of accidental posts once. That was pretty funny. 

[Sialater]

Updates are fun, aren't they?

[leggywillow]

Ryzaki wrote...
And "let's go sever you from thefade." would be the absolute worst way to pitch that idea. "let's stop Justice from hurting another mage like he did you." would be far better (as you said though Hawke would need some proof that there was a chance of the RoT destroying Justice or forcing him back into the fade).

Except even in the templar rivalry ending, when Anders has reached a Ketojan-like thought process, he would disagree with that.  Hawke may believe that Justice is a dangerous problem, but Anders is aware that he's the one who corrupted and changed Justice.  Anders would have no desire to harm Justice to "stop him from hurting another mage", because he realizes that he had an equal role in creating Vengeance.

[Ryzaki]

leggywillow wrote...
Except even in the templar rivalry ending, when Anders has reached a Ketojan-like thought process, he would disagree with that.  Hawke may believe that Justice is a dangerous problem, but Anders is aware that he's the one who corrupted and changed Justice.  Anders would have no desire to harm Justice to "stop him from hurting another mage", because he realizes that he had an equal role in creating Vengeance.

 

And this is where alternate character interpretation comes in. I do believe Anders would destroy himself and Justice at that point to stop them from being a threat to others. He might not want to do it, he would not like doing it, and there's a high chance he'd off himself afterwards (if not at the same time). But I could see him choosing to do so if he felt it was either that or they continue on harming innocent mages and civlians alike. 

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...
Seriously? That is pretty funny. Also, it's nice to have someone to point at and say, "well, at least you're not that far gone."

 

Yes it was in the Mass Effect forums from what I recall. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 24 juin 2011 - 02:12 .

[leggywillow]

Ryzaki wrote...
And this is where alternate character interpretation comes in. I do believe Anders would destroy himself and Justice at that point to stop them from being a threat to others. He might not want to do it, he would not like doing it, and there's a high chance he'd off himself afterwards (if not at the same time). But I could see him choosing to do so if he felt it was either that or they continue on harming innocent mages and civlians alike.

Which is exactly why he wants to commit suicide in the templar rivalry ending, yes.  I don't think you would be able to convince him that Tranquility would accomplish that any better than simple death.

[Ryzaki]

leggywillow wrote...

Which is exactly why he wants to commit suicide in the templar rivalry ending, yes.  I don't think you would be able to convince him that Tranquility would accomplish that any better than simple death.

 

Except for the fact that Justice can skip freely from his corpse if he's dead unless Anders' death forces Justice back into the Fade. 

Truthfully the best option would probably be imprisonment until Hawke could figure out someway to destroy Justice. I doubt Anders would fight against that. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 24 juin 2011 - 02:22 .

[leggywillow]

Ryzaki wrote...

leggywillow wrote...

Which is exactly why he wants to commit suicide in the templar rivalry ending, yes.  I don't think you would be able to convince him that Tranquility would accomplish that any better than simple death.

 

Except for the fact that Justice can skip freely from his corpse if he's dead.

Which Anders would believe to be a good thing.  Hawke may not, as you've said.  But Anders says in the templar rivalry ending that that's pretty much PRECISELY what he's hoping for when he dies.