57020 réponses à ce sujet

[legbamel]

ipgd wrote...

ashyraine wrote...
(for whatever that's worth. I *carded* a 40 yr old last night because I thought he looked so young).

You must have made his day.

I can see 40 from here and I thanked a woman for carding me the other day.

Do you think Anders looks older than he did in Awakening (as I'd think he would after all that happened between) or just thinner?

Dangit, ToP!

from altairezio at DA.
Seventeenth edit: I give up.

Modifié par legbamel, 26 juin 2011 - 12:17 .

[Amondra]

legbamel wrote...

ipgd wrote...

ashyraine wrote...
(for whatever that's worth. I *carded* a 40 yr old last night because I thought he looked so young).

You must have made his day.

I can see 40 from here and I thanked a woman for carding me the other day.

Do you think Anders looks older than he did in Awakening (as I'd think he would after all that happened between) or just thinner?

To me he looks aged.  But tht kind of age, that happens when life doens't give you lemons, but just beats you down so hard you don't think you can stand.  He does look thinner too, and outside because they gave him his own skeleton, but considering he is running a free clinic and hiding from Templars I doubt he eats well.

[Giggles_Manically]

I would beg DA2 Anders to be early 30s myself.

[Ryzaki]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

I would beg DA2 Anders to be early 30s myself.

 

You mean peg?  

I always saw him late twenties. 

[KnightofPhoenix]

I'd say late 20s in the beginning, mid 30s by the end of DA2.

[SurelyForth]

@legbamel You have an extra space in your closing tag!

Pretty little sketchcard by Payroo:

Modifié par SurelyForth, 25 juin 2011 - 11:22 .

[DreamerM]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Sialater wrote...

SurelyForth wrote...

DreamerM wrote...

I just finished my first playthrough with my!Hawke.

I spared Anders's life. I didn't think I was going to, but I did. I sent him away, but after a few difficult sans-healer battles getting to the Gallows, I decided to let him rejoin the group when he showed up at the Circle. Although I didn't really want to look at him.

I did break up with him then, though.

And yet, he stayed with me in the epilogue. I wonder what would be going through his mind, slogging around after a woman who said, in pretty explicit terms, that she wasn't going to be #2 in his life, wouldn't forgive him, and didn't love him anymore.

He says he couldn't be with you if you weren't going to support his Mage Freedom Weather Underground Revolution thing. I wonder...

The staying with you is a glitch. I think he stays with you sometimes even if he's dead.

Although, if it wasn't...that would make a heartbreaking story. *contemplates*

Hey... now... I have enough plot bunnies without y'all suggesting more.  

For DreamerM's little after-game adventure, I can picture it happening this way: the companions start off in a big group, fleeing the city together, and one by one they split off, until Anders and Hawke are just all that's left. And Hawke is half-expecting Anders to take the hint and leave, but he has literally nowhere else to go, and so clings to this idea of Hawke. Sort of an "I'll stay with her until I find somewhere else to go, someone else to go with," but, let's face it, that isn't going to happen. And Hawke feels kind of almost... guilty for not killing him, because that might have been kinder to both of them, at this point.

I imagine for Anders...He's not in Kirkwall anymore. He no longer has a parade of the poverty-stricken downtodden walking through his door, and he doesn't have to stare Mage Oppression in the face day after day after day. Plus Justice has already done his big thing, changed the world forever. What this might lead to is, for the first time in a long time, Anders is unsure what to do next. He wants to help the Revolution but he has no idea how. He wants to pow-wow with Hawke, she aways had a way of making the impossible sound easy, she'd have some sort of plan, except this is a different Hawke, a distant one who can barely look at him, and it hurts, but he can't blame her. She is what he made her into.

For Hawke's part, there are lots of awkward silences around the campfire. She wishes he weren't still so goddamn handsome, and she could forget how warm his skin felt when...uh, that's not a useful train of thought during another a cold night on the hard, hard ground. He'd leave if she ordered him too, she knows that, but where would he go? Back to the Wardens? They'd kill him as dead as anyone else would. Maybe that's what she should do; stick a dagger in him one night and just get on with her life. She has the worst feeling that he wouldn't object.

She keeps thinking it, and she keeps not doing it. She fully intended to kill him for killing all those people, but her hand wouldn't obey her then. It won't obey her now.

Modifié par DreamerM, 25 juin 2011 - 11:37 .

[legbamel]

SurelyForth wrote...
@legbamel You have an extra space in your closing tag!

Pretty little sketchcard by Payroo:

No I don't.    Thanks! 

What IS he putting on the mantel?

[DragonRacer]

Looks like it's his mother's pillow to me.

Also, BOOOOOOOOOOOOO at the "Creeper Line". My hubby is 13 years older than me (was 34 when I started dating him at age 21), but mentally and emotionally we are on the same playing field and couldn't be happier.  So, more power to you, Karl!

[SurelyForth]

DragonRacer wrote...

Looks like it's his mother's pillow to me.

Also, BOOOOOOOOOOOOO at the "Creeper Line". My hubby is 13 years older than me (was 34 when I started dating him at age 21), but mentally and emotionally we are on the same playing field and couldn't be happier.  So, more power to you, Karl!

If you start dating someone older as a 18/19+ year old? Coolio. 

But the implication is that Anders, at least, was an apprentice. Which to me indicates that he was a teenager, and I've seen/read some interpretations that makes him seem like a youngish apprentice who is with a significantly older Karl (and, when we're talking teenagers, 10 years is a significant gap). Also...I hardly think the Anders we knew in Awakening could be considered mentally or emotionally mature and considering almost all of his pre-Awakening publicity used the phrase "born troublemaker", I think that was purposeful.

My grandmother was 16 (lying and saying she was 19) and my grandfather was 37 (lying and saying he was 30) when they got married. I love them both, but that creeps me out. Had they met a few years later? Whatever.

Modifié par SurelyForth, 26 juin 2011 - 12:54 .

[DragonRacer]

@ Surely --

Yeah, I see what you're saying.

It's not really ever stated anywhere just what age appenticehood starts/ends, does it?

[legbamel]

I tend to think of apprenticehood ending later, say 19 to early twenties. That's mostly because your (my? our?) Amell seems to be twenty or so when she goes through her Harrowing. Though I don't remember the implication that Anders was still an apprentice. I just thought he was significantly younger than Karl.  At that age I was dating a guy fifteen years older than I was.

In short: 14, bad (particularly as he'd only been at the Cirle for two years). 19 (and presumably more stable so long after his father's betrayal, though Hello, daddy issues!), okay, 22, fine.

Modifié par legbamel, 26 juin 2011 - 01:11 .

[ipgd]

Creepiness is a case-by-case thing. Given Anders's personality and the fact they were apparently still friends many years later with no bad feelings, I'm not terribly inclined to see even a significantly older Karl as a creepy kiddie-diddler. I'm sure teenage!Anders could handle himself.

If it were Merrill...

Modifié par ipgd, 26 juin 2011 - 01:05 .

[SurelyForth]

Anders says: "Growing up in the Circle, everything is about order and rules and the templars. The apprentices... we found ways to make that bearable."

According to the toolset (I know, I know): Jowan is 20, Keili is 19 and Petra (the harrowed mage with Wynne) is 23. So it seems like 20ish is a good guess for harrowings, which is what I assumed.

@ipgd I think the no weirdness implied in their interactions and what Anders says about apprentices specifically means that there wasn't a huge age gap. I think my first remarks on the subject of Karl was that fanon seems to want to make him Older, so I've been pushing up Anders' age in my head to account for that because I'd prefer, for personal reasons, that Karl wasn't a total pervbot. 

And just because teenage Anders could "handle it" doesn't mean it's not potentially weird, if examined. He also "handled" solitary, and look how he ended up. 

Modifié par SurelyForth, 26 juin 2011 - 01:13 .

[Amondra]

ipgd wrote...

Creepiness is a case-by-case thing. Given Anders's personality and the fact they were apparently still friends many years later with no bad feelings, I'm not terribly inclined to see even a significantly older Karl as a creepy kiddie-diddler. I'm sure teenage!Anders could handle himself.

If it were Merrill...

Everything with Merrill becomes it own monster lol 

[legbamel]

ipgd wrote...
Creepiness is a case-by-case thing. Given Anders's personality and the fact they were apparently still friends many years later with no bad feelings, I'm not terribly inclined to see even a significantly older Karl as a creepy kiddie-diddler. I'm sure teenage!Anders could handle himself.

If it were Merrill...

Heck, I can't romance Merrill with a relatively-stable Hawke that's approximately the same age or only a few years older.  That woman has some serious growing up to do.  [shudders]

Surely, I just figured the apprentices were diddling each other in that dorm of theirs, not that the comment referred to Karl in particular.  I suppose it could, though.

Modifié par legbamel, 26 juin 2011 - 01:14 .

[DreamerM]

I thought I read somewhere that (in the Lake Calanhad circle at least) mages go through their Harrowings at 18. Although there's probably some fudge factor. A former apostate who joined a Circle as an adult would probably still have to undergo a period of training and a Harrowing to be declared a full-fledged circle mage. And there's probably the odd precocious apprentice who gets declared ready when much younger then that, although if they are sane they will be very very careful about those.

Modifié par DreamerM, 26 juin 2011 - 01:19 .

[Amondra]

SurelyForth wrote...

Anders says: "Growing up in the Circle, everything is about order and rules and the templars. The apprentices... we found ways to make that bearable."

According to the toolset (I know, I know): Jowan is 20, Keili is 19 and Petra (the harrowed mage with Wynne) is 23. So it seems like 20ish is a good guess for harrowings, which is what I assumed.

@ipgd I think the no weirdness implied in their interactions and what Anders says about apprentices specifically means that there wasn't a huge age gap. I think my first remarks on the subject of Karl was that fanon seems to want to make him Older, so I've been pushing up Anders' age in my head to account for that because I'd prefer, for personal reasons, that Karl wasn't a total pervbot. 

And just because teenage Anders could "handle it" doesn't mean it's not potentially weird, if examined. He also "handled" solitary, and look how he ended up. 

Well if Anders always had issues with wanting to feel loved, a younger Anders could easily fall or an older man, just becuase he feels accepted and loved.  He seems like he has those kind of issues, I think it might have also fueled his seemingly overly sexual self in Awakenings. 

I just see constantly looking for acceptance and love and will take whenever he see's no matter.

[SurelyForth]

Amondra wrote...


Well if Anders always had issues with wanting to feel loved, a younger Anders could easily fall or an older man, just becuase he feels accepted and loved.  He seems like he has those kind of issues, I think it might have also fueled his seemingly overly sexual self in Awakenings. 

I just see constantly looking for acceptance and love and will take whenever he see's no matter.

I understand that. Totally. But it doesn't necessarily reflect that well onto Karl that he would take advantage of a much younger man, if that were the case. And I didn't get the vibe from Anders that it was the case, that it was anything more than a diversion at the Circle, maybe a little more meaningful than others. From the way he talks, it's clear neither he nor Karl loved each other.

I can admit, though, that this is An Issue for me, so I won't go into it anymore. My original point, way back, was that I think Anders is probably 27/28 when we meet him in Kirkwall, and 35ish when the Chantry goes up. 

[legbamel]

Amondra wrote...

SurelyForth wrote...
Anders says: "Growing up in the Circle, everything is about order and rules and the templars. The apprentices... we found ways to make that bearable."

According to the toolset (I know, I know): Jowan is 20, Keili is 19 and Petra (the harrowed mage with Wynne) is 23. So it seems like 20ish is a good guess for harrowings, which is what I assumed.

@ipgd I think the no weirdness implied in their interactions and what Anders says about apprentices specifically means that there wasn't a huge age gap. I think my first remarks on the subject of Karl was that fanon seems to want to make him Older, so I've been pushing up Anders' age in my head to account for that because I'd prefer, for personal reasons, that Karl wasn't a total pervbot. 

And just because teenage Anders could "handle it" doesn't mean it's not potentially weird, if examined. He also "handled" solitary, and look how he ended up.

Well if Anders always had issues with wanting to feel loved, a younger Anders could easily fall or an older man, just becuase he feels accepted and loved.  He seems like he has those kind of issues, I think it might have also fueled his seemingly overly sexual self in Awakenings. 

I just see constantly looking for acceptance and love and will take whenever he see's no matter.

But to me that cheapens what he feels for Hawke.  Is he only interested in her/him because she and Varric are the only ones who really seem to take him for what he is and Varric has Bianca?  I can see Karl helping to resolve those issues, being his friend as well as his lover (f-buddy, if you will) even after he's shown his "troublemaker" tendencies and perhaps even after he was in solitary and before he escaped and ended up in Amaranthine.

Oooh, look, a plot bunny! 

Modifié par legbamel, 26 juin 2011 - 01:33 .

[SurelyForth]

legbamel wrote...

Amondra wrote...

Well if Anders always had issues with wanting to feel loved, a younger Anders could easily fall or an older man, just becuase he feels accepted and loved.  He seems like he has those kind of issues, I think it might have also fueled his seemingly overly sexual self in Awakenings. 

I just see constantly looking for acceptance and love and will take whenever he see's no matter.

But to me that cheapens what he feels for Hawke.  Is he only interested in her/him because she and Varric are the only ones who really seem to take him for what he is and Varric has Bianca?  I can see Karl helping to resolve those issues, being his friend as well as his lover (f-buddy, if you will) even after he's shown his "troublemaker" tendencies and perhaps even after he was in solitary and before he escaped and ended up in Amaranthine.

Oooh, look, a plot bunny! 

I forgot to address this.

It's my personal opinion that Anders wasn't looking for love or acceptance until he joined with Justice. I think he probably avoided most close relationships for the reason he states in DA2- it's just another way for the templars to get to you. If he was always escaping, or trying to escape, I imagine he'd have difficulties forming any real lasting bonds, especially romantic ones. 

And, after Justice, I don't think he's looking for love from just anyone. I really do believe that Hawke, no matter what, triggers something in him. Granted, Hawke is pretty much forced to accept him at some level for what he is or at least care, so that might be what it is. I think the fact that he doesn't flirt, or indicate attraction to anyone else, no matter who Hawke romances, is a fairly clear indication that Hawke is the only person he's interested in post-Justice.

Although I could see an argument being made for the Warden, but only on the friendship path. 

Modifié par SurelyForth, 26 juin 2011 - 02:58 .

[ipgd]

SurelyForth wrote...

@ipgd I think the no weirdness implied in their interactions and what Anders says about apprentices specifically means that there wasn't a huge age gap. I think my first remarks on the subject of Karl was that fanon seems to want to make him Older, so I've been pushing up Anders' age in my head to account for that because I'd prefer, for personal reasons, that Karl wasn't a total pervbot. 

And just because teenage Anders could "handle it" doesn't mean it's not potentially weird, if examined. He also "handled" solitary, and look how he ended up. 

Solitary has a bit higher chance of driving you nutty than banging an older dude, I'd think If there were any sort of creepy damaging manipulation going on, I'd doubt they'd still be on good terms by DA2. As long as Anders was post-pubescent and above the mental maturity of a child, I'd imagine theoreticaloldmancreeper!Karl could be absolved of most creepiness besides "knowingly engages in a relationship with a person with a significantly lower numerical age figure" which may not even be an issue given the setting.

Granted, I've never understood why people think Karl is that old in the first place.

[legbamel]

ipgd wrote...
Solitary has a bit higher chance of driving you nutty than banging an older dude, I'd think If there were any sort of creepy damaging manipulation going on, I'd doubt they'd still be on good terms by DA2. As long as Anders was post-pubescent and above the mental maturity of a child, I'd imagine theoreticaloldmancreeper!Karl could be absolved of most creepiness besides "knowingly engages in a relationship with a person with a significantly lower numerical age figure" which may not even be an issue given the setting.

Granted, I've never understood why people think Karl is that old in the first place.

It's the grey beard that does it for me.  I know, people go grey prematurely, but he looks to me to be in his late forties if not in his fifties in the Chantry when Anders kills him.

[ipgd]

legbamel wrote...

It's the grey beard that does it for me.  I know, people go grey prematurely, but he looks to me to be in his late forties if not in his fifties in the Chantry when Anders kills him.

He must be mainlining botox if that's the case.

He doesn't strike me as much older than thirty. Without the beard he'd probably look younger than Anders.

[legbamel]

Hm. I wouldn't say thirty but apparently on the computer he looks less raggedy than on the X-Box. That beard is still nasty and he's got rather more forehead creases than you'd think for a guy with no emotions.    I think there are crows' feet, too, but that could just be my desire to be right.

Modifié par legbamel, 26 juin 2011 - 02:47 .