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[beckaliz]

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...

beckaliz wrote...

Errrm. Translation for my occasional square-ness? 

We helped create a meme - or tried to - that got DreamerM so excited she started an own thread about it. It's in the "Official Campaign Quests and Story" section of the forum. But then Stanley Woo swooped down upon us and locked it.

Hahahahaha ok. XD Well, that explains that.

[DreamerM]

ipgd wrote...

He did it to Stand For What Is Right, not protect Hawke. Giving them more of a personal connection wouldn't really help with that.

Why did he decide killing Hawke wasn't "right?" Yeah Hawke is the Sparkley Champion, but if he/she has sided with the mages (or IS a mage) then Meredith should be justified in calling for his execution, right? At least from Cullen's point of view.

[River5]

DreamerM wrote...

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...
By the way, our meme thread just got Woo'd

Aw. Fun while it lasted.

I KNOW!!!  And they did that just when I was about to write:

I love Squares...
...so I annulled the Circle.

It was so witty and took me hours to come up with it!  Not fair!!! 

More seriously though...  As much as I love DAA Anders, I still prefer the DA2 version, including the change of voice.

For some reason, Adam Howden makes Anders sound much more vulnerable as a character...  It's as if they had asked the actor to be completely emotionally naked in front of the microphone...

Okay, weird metaphore there, but it's just that DA2 Anders seems to feel every emotion on a level where it's almost scorching him.  Whether it's love, anger, hate, sadness, pain...  It's like it always takes hold of his whole being, and it's hard for him to remain in control of his passions.

Howden seems very comfortable with the concept of not holding back when it comes to voice acting.  You feel the strain in Anders' voice when the character is trying to remain in control of himself...  And when he lets lose...  Boy, does HE let lose!

That first kiss had me go "Whoa!  What just happened here?  Where's the silly music and quiet smacking sounds I got accustomed to in DAO?  And why are my cheeks burning?  Why am I hyperventilating?!?!?  It's a videogame kiss, for crying out loud!"  *runs to go find boyfriend*

Another very good example of this is the way Anders reacts when your character falls in battle. www.youtube.com/watch

I loved the work that Greg Ellis did in DAA, and the way he portrayed "Anders' snark" does sound a bit more effective...  But I think that Howden's voice fit the way they wrote Anders in DA2 a bit better.

Modifié par River5, 27 juin 2011 - 08:53 .

[ipgd]

DreamerM wrote...

Why did he decide killing Hawke wasn't "right?" Yeah Hawke is the Sparkley Champion, but if he/she has sided with the mages (or IS a mage) then Meredith should be justified in calling for his execution, right? At least from Cullen's point of view.

Cullen is The Voice of Reason. By having Cullen act against her, the narrative is using him as a vehicle to place a divide between her and her order as an extreme figure of irrationality. Cullen's actions speak towards "Meredith is not the Templars".

[River5]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Howden made me seriously fall for Anders, but I feel that if Howden had been directly slightly further toward the snark end of the spectrum, it would have been even better. I hear it in some of his lines and I'm like "Oh my god so close!"

Like when he teased Sebastian about having Andraste's face on his crotch?
And when he began asking Aveline about the naughty games Templars love to play?

[Evilnor]

River5 wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Howden made me seriously fall for Anders, but I feel that if Howden had been directly slightly further toward the snark end of the spectrum, it would have been even better. I hear it in some of his lines and I'm like "Oh my god so close!"

Like when he teased Sebastian about having Andraste's face on his crotch?
And when he began asking Aveline about the naughty games Templars love to play?

And when he steals Varric's joke out from under him

While I always imagine DAA Anders spouting snark like that with a smirk, I always picture DA2 Anders saying stuff like that with a straight face.  It's probably the difference in delivery that does it.  While DAA Anders drove people away with jokes and evasiveness, DA2 Anders drives them away with political rhetoric and outright nastiness or obvious defensiveness sometimes.

[kromify]

according to the rite of annulment codex there have been 17 annulments in the last 700 years, averaging once every 40 years. depending on players choices there can be 2 within 10 years. are mages getting more dangerous? rhetorical derp question lol!!!

you can get a bit pally with cullen, on the lines of how's my old friend getting along, anything i can do to help. but that's not why he stands up to meredith imo - it's because hawke is not a part of the circle and therefore should not be annulled. she is completely going out of her remit to order hawkes execution though the lines do blur if hawke is a mage. as stand-in viscount she should be ordering aveline to arrest you for trial

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Evilnor wrote...

River5 wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Howden made me seriously fall for Anders, but I feel that if Howden had been directly slightly further toward the snark end of the spectrum, it would have been even better. I hear it in some of his lines and I'm like "Oh my god so close!"

Like when he teased Sebastian about having Andraste's face on his crotch?
And when he began asking Aveline about the naughty games Templars love to play?

And when he steals Varric's joke out from under him

While I always imagine DAA Anders spouting snark like that with a smirk, I always picture DA2 Anders saying stuff like that with a straight face.  It's probably the difference in delivery that does it.  While DAA Anders drove people away with jokes and evasiveness, DA2 Anders drives them away with political rhetoric and outright nastiness or obvious defensiveness sometimes.

All of these. So much.

Throughout the game, the only thing that had me going "GODDAMMIT ANDERS" was the more meanspiritied tenor to some of his jokes. I was thinking: Anders, In DA:A you got everyone to like you or at least vaguely tolerate you, and your arguments for mage freedom wre much more convincing as a result. Don't you remember how frustrated you were with Velanna for her blanket hatred of all humans? And now you're mocking a woman about her dead husband? And don't go trying that whole "oh, it's all because of Justice" thing on me. I know for a fact that Justice doesn't have a sense of humor. Those mean jokes are all you, buddy. All you.

Every once in a while I hear a word or two of the old him. At the end of that one Fenris banter when he says "I'm charming!" or when he calls Lady Hawke sweetheart. And I just want to grab him by those ridiculous green and gold lapels and shake him, shouting "Maybe if you weren't so completely offensive toward everyone they'd be a bit more sympathetic. I'm tired of having to make excuses to my friends for you, Anders." 

I understand him being darker. I understand him being more dedicated, and hating himself more. I understand the anger. But Maker's breath, Anders, you are hurting your side more than you're helping it, like that!

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 27 juin 2011 - 10:26 .

[Giggles_Manically]

As the old saying goes:

"You catch more flies with honey then with vinegar"

[kromify]

if it's a mabari it does

[Dunizel]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...
And now you're mocking a woman about her dead husband? And don't go trying that whole "oh, it's all because of Justice" thing on me. I know for a fact that Justice doesn't have a sense of humor. Those mean jokes are all you, buddy. All you.

I cannot suffer too his attitude with Aveline. Aveline who clearly tries to cover up for him too, and honestly even just tries to shrug off his remarks. 
Anders' "jokes" about her husband, or when he says that he thought she doesn't have a brain...they were simply cruel. 
For someone usually so compassionate, he is extremely cruel to Aveline...just because she was married to a Templar, who died too, and he didn't even know him. 
I know it shouldn't be said in the case of something that is actually ingame but...it felt out of character to me. 

[Giggles_Manically]

Well this comment:
"Thrask seemed a decent man... for a templar"

I think it shows that he deep down despises templars and anyone who in his mind is allied to them.

But yes I had to resist the urge to turn around and say:
Oh by the maker's right nut would you stop being such a giant ******?

[ipgd]

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...

Yeah, I thought the same. A lot of his quips are so toxic and personal it just makes me cringe and even the most offensive of his sarcasm in Awakenings never came off as such. I'm guessing that he must have kept a lot of his mean-spiritedness and hateful thoughts to himself, like all socially functional beings do, and now he seems to have lost practically all ability to be socially deceitful. Every scrap of viciousness bubbles up to the surface. I can say for certain that if I had been like that, I would not have a single friend. Maybe one. Do pets count as friends?

Hey, I'm way meaner than Anders is and I have plenty of friends.

Though, they pretty much do reflect that by having Varric be like, the only person in the party who can stand him.

[maxernst]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Well this comment:
"Thrask seemed a decent man... for a templar"

I think it shows that he deep down despises templars and anyone who in his mind is allied to them.

But yes I had to resist the urge to turn around and say:
Oh by the maker's right nut would you stop being such a giant ******?

Which is somewhat hypocritical given that judging by Alistair's story, Templars may not have a lot of choice about they are, either...especially after they become lyrium addicts.  Actually, I bet a lot of templars are children of mages.

[kromify]

needs more snark and less spite. this is where i think ellis would have done a better job, though it's likely that it's the way it was intended to be

[SurelyForth]

Dunizel wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...
And now you're mocking a woman about her dead husband? And don't go trying that whole "oh, it's all because of Justice" thing on me. I know for a fact that Justice doesn't have a sense of humor. Those mean jokes are all you, buddy. All you.

I cannot suffer too his attitude with Aveline. Aveline who clearly tries to cover up for him too, and honestly even just tries to shrug off his remarks. 
Anders' "jokes" about her husband, or when he says that he thought she doesn't have a brain...they were simply cruel. 
For someone usually so compassionate, he is extremely cruel to Aveline...just because she was married to a Templar, who died too, and he didn't even know him. 
I know it shouldn't be said in the case of something that is actually ingame but...it felt out of character to me. 

He's inappropriate about Wesley, but I think he doesn't trust her because she's in a position of authority and isn't pro-mage. She hesitates to go along with Hawke if s/he sides with the mages, and I think she even says something about the mages in Kirkwall as being justification for the Circle. 

@Giggles I think it's understandable. I can imagine a templar saying the same thing about him or Bethany...they are trained to fear and distrust mages and, as a result, I'd say that many freedom-minded mages have a natural inclination to fear and distrust templars and have difficulty seeing them as people considering the way the Chantry uses them. I'd say that, post-Justice, that he's agreeable to work with any templar and give them any credit means he's not as extreme as he could be in his hatred...considering templars are why he corrupted Justice in  the first place.

Modifié par SurelyForth, 27 juin 2011 - 11:12 .

[Evilnor]

I guess it's possible to argue that Justice makes it so much harder for him to hide his true feelings, with the assumption that lying about your true opinion toward people is unjust, or at least that it's unjust to make light of them. He may not be feeling things more deeply than he did in Awakening, but he certainly has a harder time hiding those feelings.

Cuz really, even as regular people, if we were completely honest about our opinions of people, how many friends would we actually have if we were as embittered about the world as Anders is?

[River5]

ipgd wrote...

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...

Yeah, I thought the same. A lot of his quips are so toxic and personal it just makes me cringe and even the most offensive of his sarcasm in Awakenings never came off as such. I'm guessing that he must have kept a lot of his mean-spiritedness and hateful thoughts to himself, like all socially functional beings do, and now he seems to have lost practically all ability to be socially deceitful. Every scrap of viciousness bubbles up to the surface. I can say for certain that if I had been like that, I would not have a single friend. Maybe one. Do pets count as friends?

Hey, I'm way meaner than Anders is and I have plenty of friends.

Though, they pretty much do reflect that by having Varric be like, the only person in the party who can stand him.

And Bethany, don't forget Bethany...  Though she doesn't stay with us for long.

It really is sad because he sounded the most open and reasonable when talking with her.  Like that conversation they had about how it is impossible for mages to argue with the Chantry's representatives, and try to negociate with them if they insist on taking away their ability to reason (turn the mages who oppose the Chantry's ways too openly tranquil).

It's funny because Anders is a tad bit too much on the defensive with your companions...  But pretty open and relaxed with Hawke...

Whereas Fenris is more open with your companions, but quick to get on the defensive and immediately jump to the wrong conclusions with Hawke.

As a result, Anders defensiveness never really bothered me (I barely noticed it, really), and I always found his arguments with the other members of the party kind of funny / entertaining (especially since Anders and I share similar point of views)...

But, in Fenris' case, on my first play through all I wanted to do was throw him headfirst into the nearest wall.

I hate it when people automatically jump to the wrong conclusions, and you constantly have to say:
"No,
I'm sorry, that's not what I meant, you misunderstood.  No, I didn't
meant to imply that you're too stupid to understand, perhaps I just
didn't express myself properly.  Want me to say I'm sorry again?  There
you go...  I'm sorry...  You're not feeling any better?  WELL,
WHY DON'T YOU JUST TAKE THAT FRAKKING SWORD OF MERCY,
AND SHOVE IT UP YOUR..."

That pretty much summed up my entire relationship to Fenris back then!  Lol!

How did I miss that Anders acts similarly with the others?  Lol!  I can see why they seem pretty annoyed with him by the end of Act III.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...

Yeah, I thought the same. A lot of his quips are so toxic and personal it just makes me cringe and even the most offensive of his sarcasm in Awakenings never came off as such. I'm guessing that he must have kept a lot of his mean-spiritedness and hateful thoughts to himself, like all socially functional beings do, and now he seems to have lost practically all ability to be socially deceitful. Every scrap of viciousness bubbles up to the surface. I can say for certain that if I had been like that, I would not have a single friend. Maybe one. Do pets count as friends?

I totally get all of the reasoning behind this happening, but I also feel that it was part and parcel of Justice convincing him to let himself go in oh-so-many ways. I think it's something that Anders could have compensated for if he'd thought to, or cared to. But his ability to make clever, gentle jokes was just another part of him that Justice convinced him was not needed, so he gave it up. Some of the things Justice makes Anders give up make sense... the running, the fooling around, the drinking, the vanity. I get all that. But Anders doesn't seem to be able to fight to keep things that are necessary, either for social interactions or for him to not go freaking mental. Justice, man does not live by bread alone. Also, let him eat some god-damned bread. The boy is starving.

I feel like, after the merger went south, Anders basically thought "well, everything about me is basically living poison, guess I ought to just listen to Justice and chuck all that noise." But I just can't imagine that Justice makes it completely impossible for him to be tactful, I just think he's just given up on trying, in the same way that he's convinced hinself that so many other aspects of his life and personality are dead and gone.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 27 juin 2011 - 11:25 .

[Evilnor]

And after he meets Hawke, he lets Hawke be tactful and friendly for him, assuming his goals are met, so he has no reason to even attempt it anymore. Hawke is an enabler for the pissy abomination!

[legbamel]

ipgd wrote...

DreamerM wrote...
Why did he decide killing Hawke wasn't "right?" Yeah Hawke is the Sparkley Champion, but if he/she has sided with the mages (or IS a mage) then Meredith should be justified in calling for his execution, right? At least from Cullen's point of view.

Cullen is The Voice of Reason. By having Cullen act against her, the narrative is using him as a vehicle to place a divide between her and her order as an extreme figure of irrationality. Cullen's actions speak towards "Meredith is not the Templars".

Cullen tells you as much, going from "rah, rah, Templars!" to "I don't know who I'm working for any more, the Order or Meredith".  He's a guage of her downhill slide and the voice of the conflict between duty and conscience that every Templar in Kirkwall faces.  They're a military order and their commanding officer is less and less rational.  At what point does a good soldier (particularly Cullen, who's been given a second chance of sorts in Kirkwall) utterly refuse to follow one more order?  I imagine it's difficult when, over seven years, it's been an incremental worsening not the dramatic shifts we see in the game.

Uh, and Anders has a sexy nose.  There, now I'm on-topic.