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[panamakira]

I wished the Grand Cleric would have stepped in and kicked out Meredith and replace it with Cullen. Then we would have had a boss fight ending in Act 2. The Qunari should have been Act 3. I just thought the Arishok was cooler than Meredith.

Cullen is more reasonable for a Templar but he's still about traumatized from Ferelden lol. But if he were to be made a Knight-Commander there goes the chance for him as a LI for DA3.

:/

[TripLight]

<p>I was squeeingsomething fierce when I first started Keran's Quest, I heard Greg Ellis and my knees grew weak, and I lost it.</p>

Modifié par TripLight, 22 mars 2011 - 09:43 .

[Dave of Canada]

The average citizen on Thedas sees a mage and is extremely scared because of what they can do, which we already know is mind control, untold destruction and reanimate the dead to name a few. This leads to lots of paranoia among the people, where if a crop doesn't work out or if a house is burned down they'd most likely blame a mage and execute them.

This isn't fiction either, we've heard it from Wynne herself in Origins. She explains that for every mage that makes it to the Circle, there's many more who'd never see it. How does this factor into this? It's because we've got mages with short sighted goals, they see freedom and cling to all it's principles and never see how it might impact them in the long term.

Anders himself is one of these people, he views the mages as the unjustified victim and that if they were freed we'd be in a situation where everything would be alright and no wrong could happen. He doesn't consider the implications of their freedom, he doesn't consider how the public will react, he doesn't consider how other mages might feel about the situation.

He made a short sighted decision to destroy the Kirkwall Chantry and cause a war on the behalf of all mages throughout Thedas, he's never even considered the thought that the war might not end in his victory or that not all mages want to involved in their fight for freedom. He's deluded by Justice / Vengeance that he can't even see anything except for his hatred of the Templar in act 2 / 3.

What will happen when the goal Anders wished to achieve backfires on him? If the mages lose this war, what will he have done? He will have caused justified hate toward the mages, he will have made the "oppression" he wanted to hate much more personal and no one will shed a tear as mages are hauled off to their prisons and/or executed.

... even if the mages claimed victory and defeated the templar / Chantry, what happens then? Will the entire continent become the Tevinter Imperium? Mages can never live with people as equals, the public will fight back and the mages will either be forced to oppress them and become their tyranical rulers (Tevinter Imperium) or be defeated by the public and forced to return to the Circle.

Tevinter Imperium-esque Thedas would also by hypocritical, mages want freedom by enslaving all of Thedas under their rule? Taking mage children away from their parents, something Anders hates that the templar do, to force them to learn magic and learn how to use it to their advantage? Blood magic, something people always say as being something mages resort to when they are cornered, becoming something that exists in common day activities (almost all Tevinter magi we've met in DA2 used demons / blood magic, what's their excuse?)?

Mage freedom is a noble gold, I can stand by Anders with that. I just don't see it as something that will ever happen. I side with the Templar and kill Anders in order to try and stop the war before it starts, I fail miserably but it won't stop me from trying.

This is all excluding the threat of Demons which is something we shouldn't ignore either.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 22 mars 2011 - 09:43 .

[panamakira]

YamiSnuffles wrote...

TripLight wrote...

Cullen sides with you regardless. Love that guy

I think we can all agree on that. Whatever therapy Cullen got, everyone else needs to get in this game. He has turned pretty awesome.

Can we all agree on this? Cullen got amazing thereapy after the crap in Ferelden. I don't suppose his therapist deals with possessed mages?

[SurelyForth]

leggywillow wrote...

Miri1984 wrote...
I was truly heartened by what Thrask almost did. And it was mucked up by a blood mage. But it does indicate there are Templars out there who believe there is another way.

Speaking of which, I was a bit confused by that part of Act 3.  Basically, Hawke hunts and shuts down what seemed like a comparatively peaceful group of mages AND templars, yes?.  Yes, Grace ended up being crazy, but all of the nice, cool templars were a part of it!  Maybe Hawke should have just let them be?

This was one of the more engregious faults of the game, I think. There are several places where a conversation would have avoided tons of bloodshed. If Hawke could have shown up at the initial meeting in Hightown and been like "Hey! Orsino's worried, what's up?" and had a level-headed discussion about what his/her involvement with Meredith entailed, then things wouldn't have gotten out of hand. Instead, they reacted to Hawke like any other mob of thugs and it devolved into kidnapping and crazypantsness. 

I think Thrask was the worst death, outside of your family. He was a good man trying to do a good thing and he almost, almost made it happen. 

[leggywillow]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

TripLight wrote...

Cullen sides with you regardless. Love that guy

SuperCullen.

SexyCullen.

... what? 

[TripLight]

@Panamakira, I was just thinking that. Maybe Dr.Katz for Thedas. Lol.

[Sable Rhapsody]

SurelyForth wrote...

This was one of the more engregious faults of the game, I think. There are several places where a conversation would have avoided tons of bloodshed. If Hawke could have shown up at the initial meeting in Hightown and been like "Hey! Orsino's worried, what's up?" and had a level-headed discussion about what his/her involvement with Meredith entailed, then things wouldn't have gotten out of hand. Instead, they reacted to Hawke like any other mob of thugs and it devolved into kidnapping and crazypantsness. 

I think Thrask was the worst death, outside of your family. He was a good man trying to do a good thing and he almost, almost made it happen. 

Yeah, seriously.  Here's my apostate maleficar Hawke, who has done nothing but aid the mages and thumb her nose at Meredith, and they attack her on sight?  WAT.  There should've been a way for a Hawke who agreed with them to resolve the thing peacefully.

[upsettingshorts]

leggywillow wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

TripLight wrote...

Cullen sides with you regardless. Love that guy

SuperCullen.

SexyCullen.

That's almost redundant.  Everyone thought Superman was way sexier than Clark Kent.  It's part of the whole transformation process. 

[panamakira]

@TripLight
Everyone in the game needs a therapy session and a good philosophy or ethics class discussion. lol

[leggywillow]

U MAD GUYS

Found this on DeviantArt!

Troll!Anders is the best Anders.

Modifié par leggywillow, 22 mars 2011 - 09:50 .

[YamiSnuffles]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

SurelyForth wrote...

This was one of the more engregious faults of the game, I think. There are several places where a conversation would have avoided tons of bloodshed. If Hawke could have shown up at the initial meeting in Hightown and been like "Hey! Orsino's worried, what's up?" and had a level-headed discussion about what his/her involvement with Meredith entailed, then things wouldn't have gotten out of hand. Instead, they reacted to Hawke like any other mob of thugs and it devolved into kidnapping and crazypantsness. 

I think Thrask was the worst death, outside of your family. He was a good man trying to do a good thing and he almost, almost made it happen. 

Yeah, seriously.  Here's my apostate maleficar Hawke, who has done nothing but aid the mages and thumb her nose at Meredith, and they attack her on sight?  WAT.  There should've been a way for a Hawke who agreed with them to resolve the thing peacefully.

YES. I sided with mages at every given opportunity and spoke out publicly against Meredith. I honestly thought it was a glitch at first when they attacked me and said I was working for Meredith.

[TripLight]

Shorts, I think I am the only person who though Brandon Routh was hotter as Clark Kent then superman. But then again, I have a weakness for talk, dark-haired nerds.

[panamakira]

@leggywillow hahahha~

Oh noes~ This will get people even more pissed off.

Anders' troll face U MAD?

[MorningBird]

RinjiRenee wrote...

I can see the reasoning behind it, but the impression I get is that you either face a demon or you become a tranquil slave.  Correct me if I'm wrong?  I'd be scared out of my wits.

In the sense that you HAVE to undergo the Harrowing eventually, yes, I think you're right.  However, the impression I got was that the TEMPLARS decide when you're 'ready' to take it (it's not left up to the individual mage or the First Enchanter) and if they decide you're NEVER going to be ready, you only have 2 options left (and I'm sure you know what those two options are.)

The problem being that not all templars pick 'ready' mages.  For example, I think it's said sometime during the elven mage origin that some templars specifically target elves and force them through the Harrowing before they're ready (racism.)

Then there are mages like Jowan who have their Harrowing put off to the point that they start 'freaking' out and going down the path of blood magic.  Though, I suppose it's also possible that Jowan's Harrowing was put off BECAUSE he was under blood magic investigation.  It's hard to say.

Basically, I agree with the Harrowing in principle.  What I disagee with is how some templars use it as yet another way to abuse and kill mages.

I disagree with Tranquility completely.  I kind of understand the templars view of 'death is cruel, so here is the alternative' but that entire scene in DA2 with Karl left a bad taste in my mouth.

As I said in another thread, I wonder if Owain would still be 'happy' about being made Tranquil if he had an opportunity like Karl to feel real emotions again.

Note: After writing this post, I can't actually fully remember if the First Enchanter DOES have a say in who should and shouldn't be Harrowed, so if I'm wrong on that, feel free to correct me.

Modifié par MorningBird, 22 mars 2011 - 09:57 .

[Souris]

Dave of Canada wrote...

He made a short sighted decision to destroy the Kirkwall Chantry and cause a war on the behalf of all mages throughout Thedas, he's never even considered the thought that the war might not end in his victory or that not all mages want to involved in their fight for freedom. He's deluded by Justice / Vengeance that he can't even see anything except for his hatred of the Templar in act 2 / 3.

What will happen when the goal Anders wished to achieve backfires on him? If the mages lose this war, what will he have done? He will have caused justified hate toward the mages, he will have made the "oppression" he wanted to hate much more personal and no one will shed a tear as mages are hauled off to their prisons and/or executed.

As much as I love Anders, these are 2 very valid points. His actions could very well have set into motion something that could be far worse than the Circles are at this moment.

The implications of what he did could be very, very scary.

I'm terrible with words, but I pretty much agree with everything you said, even though I'm a giant Anders fangirl and want happy times for everyone, I don't see anything good coming out of what he did. One side will suffer more in the long run, and both in the short term.

I still supported him though, because I'm a sucker for tragedy.

(Also your name is great. As are the song lyrics in your sig.)

[SurelyForth]

TripLight wrote...

Shorts, I think I am the only person who though Brandon Routh was hotter as Clark Kent then superman. But then again, I have a weakness for talk, dark-haired nerds.

Not alone at all. He was adorable as Kent, but kinda blander than bland as Superman.

[Sable Rhapsody]

MorningBird wrote...

Note: After writing this post, I can't actually fully remember if the First Enchanter DOES have a say in who should and shouldn't be Harrowed, so if I'm wrong on that, feel free to correct me.

If you ask him about Jowan, I think he says that Jowan isn't ready and will be Harrowed in due time.  I figured it meant that he has a say, but the final say rests with the templars.  But that's just my interpretation.

I agree with Anders, Karl, and apostate Hawke--tranquility is a fate worse than death.  To live as a compliant and hollow shell, to be severed from everything that makes you a human being, and worst of all, to never remember what it's like to laugh or feel or love...I'd rather die than face that.

[upsettingshorts]

TripLight wrote...

Shorts, I think I am the only person who though Brandon Routh was hotter as Clark Kent then superman. But then again, I have a weakness for talk, dark-haired nerds.

Oh I meant everyone in universe.  Which is comical, really, but still true.

[Eydris Ivo]

The Kingdom of Canadia, where we live in igloos. >.>

[panamakira]

I'm a big Anders fangirl and I think I love his character even more for all his flaws. I don't think it was in their best interest for him to rashly make a decision like that for all mages at the end. It was a just cause, yes, but there is a LOT of things to consider, like Dave of Canada and even UpsettingShorts have mentioned.

How are people going to react to this? What will the mages do with people's reactions? Will all mages turn to blood magic for fear of getting killed and this will become another Tevinter?

This could backfire for all mages badly, and to proclaim that death or freedom is the only way, I just don't think it was his call to decide that for my mage or any other mage in Thedas.

He can't make a proper decision while he's possessed, neither could Meredith with her idol and Orsino with his blood magic.

:/

Modifié par panamakira, 22 mars 2011 - 10:05 .

[Eydris Ivo]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

MorningBird wrote...

Note: After writing this post, I can't actually fully remember if the First Enchanter DOES have a say in who should and shouldn't be Harrowed, so if I'm wrong on that, feel free to correct me.

If you ask him about Jowan, I think he says that Jowan isn't ready and will be Harrowed in due time.  I figured it meant that he has a say, but the final say rests with the templars.  But that's just my interpretation.

I agree with Anders, Karl, and apostate Hawke--tranquility is a fate worse than death.  To live as a compliant and hollow shell, to be severed from everything that makes you a human being, and worst of all, to never remember what it's like to laugh or feel or love...I'd rather die than face that.

I agree with you on the tranquility point. It's just...a horrible thought.

[Eydris Ivo]

panamakira wrote...

I'm a big Anders fangirl and I think I love his character even more for all his flaws. I don't think it was in their best interest for him to rashly make a decision like that for all mages at the end. It was a just cause, yes, but there is a LOT of things to consider, like Dave of Canada and even UpsettingShorts have mentioned.

How are people going to react to this? What will do mages do with people reactions? Will all mages turn to blood magic for fear of getting killed and this will become another Tevinter?

This could backfire for all mages badly, and to proclaim that death or freedom is the only way, I just don't think it was his call to decide that for my mage or any other mage in Thedas.

He can't make a proper decision while he's possessed, neither could Meredith with her idol and Orsino with his blood magic.

:/

It really was a giant trainwreck with all those influences affecting their decisions. All rationailty was left behind and the raw feeling of survival was all that was left. Dealing with the deepest instincts, without rational thought, can lead to dire consequences on all parts.

Modifié par Rheia1234, 22 mars 2011 - 10:06 .

[Trophonius]

MorningBird wrote...

I disagree with Tranquility completely.  I kind of understand the templars view of 'death is cruel, so here is the alternative' but that entire scene in DA2 with Karl left a bad taste in my mouth.

I agree that this was a particularly disdainful way of going on about it. It wasn't even a question of weak will. Just templars trying to demonstrate an abuse of power because they can. Deliberately killing off someone's emotions and aspirations to lure someone else into a trap is downright savage and morally reprehensible.

Of course, there are self-hating whackjobs like Keilli who thinks that her magical abilities are a curse and would rather be made tranquil.

[heretica]

Man, I just cried with "Destiny of Love". You have no idea how silly I feel right now.

BAH I LOVE THIS GAME.