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[DreamerM]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Mostly because it contradicts DA:O in a lot of ways, including the timeline.

If given a choice between the book and the game, as much of a squeeling David Gaider fan as I am, I take the Game. Since that is why we're here, after all.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I wish I could wipe out Stolen Throne from canon.

Ouch. That's harsh.

Mostly because it contradicts DA:O in a lot of ways, including the timeline.

You think that's harsh? After I played the Mass Effect 2: Arrival DLC, I said that I'd pay $30 to unplay it, wiping it from my memory.

Hi guys, I'm back from my trip. Now to go back and reply to all the stuff I missed... or maybe take a nap. We'll see. I do have a text document open with some arguments in it. Hahhahasigh.

Edit: Also, all of the timeline issues and such reveal that Bioware really needs to hire a Narrative Designer. The main complaints about their games (sidestories that don't link together well, inaccuracies in the timeline, developments not well explained outside the codex) are all things that would likely benefit from having one guy whose job it is to build timelines, figure out what information needs to be presented in each game, and then make sure that information makes it in as something more than a background note. Also, someone to facilitate communication between teams working on separate content packets.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 04 juillet 2011 - 08:46 .

[Ryzaki]

@CGG: Arrival was not that bad. XD

[KnightofPhoenix]

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Mostly because it contradicts DA:O in a lot of ways, including the timeline.

If you read it while you're drunk, you won't even notice But you're right. The book does have some issues.

Some?

@ Ryzaki
It's ME2's main plot that is bad. Arrival should have been the main plot (alongside LOSB).

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 04 juillet 2011 - 09:07 .

[ademska]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
@ Ryzaki
It's ME2's main plot that is bad. Arrival should have been the main plot (alongside LOSB).

you know, as much as i legitimately enjoyed me2 (i know i'm such a plebe), when i played losb it was all i could do to keep bugs from flying into my gaping fish mouth. you're capable of doing that, bioware? jesus ****.

[kromify]

i take it they're worth the money then?

[KnightofPhoenix]

kromify wrote...

i take it they're worth the money then?

LOTSB, I'd say definitely imo. Arrival, so so

[ademska]

losb is the purest fun i've ever had in a bioware game. best dlc ever, surely.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

This isn't an ME thread but here are my general thoughts and reasoning for the above statement. I may make a proper blog about it later, actually. (Here's my old review blog, from when it came out. I address both the pros and cons with as few spoilers as possible.)

ME2 tried to do a cool thing: make a character-development-based game. The problem was they missed an opportunity that would have been awesome: make a significant portion of the character-development missions inform the main plot of the game, or at least set up really important background conflicts. There's nothing I need to know about the universe that I learn from Thane's recruitment or loyalty mission, and that stuff is irrelevant to the main plot, but it didn't have to be. Everything could have connected in weird ways like it does in an ensemble cast movie like Snatch or Pulp fiction. I still have faith that the Collectors and the things we learned about them are actually more important than anything we learned in Arrival, or anything that that Arrival's story had to offer us. We'll see if that faith bears out. (Note: Everyone thinks that LotSB is great, both people who love ME2 and people who don't love it. I also agree that it is the best DLC.)

Arrival failed to me because it was the first time I ever felt that Shepard was an affectless idiot. There were so many times that had me shouting at the screen "WHAT? WHY ARE YOU? THAT DOESN'T!" And then at the end, there was an event where we usually would have had five or six wheels worth of dialogue to talk about our reactions to what we did, or at least get a feeling of what a bunch of other people think about it, there were like two sentences that pretty much amounted to "s'up" "hey. that thing happened." "Yes. Also, I am a paragon/renegade/neutral" "that you are." 

I don't care when you can't change the outcome of an event... I've stood behind not being able to change the Chantry bombing, and I still believe that was valuable, important, and good storytelling. (See, see, I brought it back to Anders!) My problem is when I can clearly see my character being an idiot, and they don't even bother to handwave it away with so much as a "No Signal" With the chantry explosion, at least Hawke can show how she feels about what just happened through her actions in regards to Anders and the mages or templars, and then at the Gallows with her conversations with characters. But Arrival as the main plot of ME2? That would be like if the main plot of DA2 was "oh dear, there's another archdemon, and we have to kill it only this time we have to sacrifice more than one life and there's no dark ritual! Whatever shall we do?" instead of a totally different story told in an entirely different way. I guess I'm saying I prefer Empire Strikes Back to Return of the Jedi.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 04 juillet 2011 - 09:46 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

ademska wrote...

losb is the purest fun i've ever had in a bioware game. best dlc ever, surely.

I think I enjoyed Overlord more, but as a sidequest. LOTSB was more of a stand alone story and I loved it as well.

[kromify]

so shepard did a hawke, huh? LOL!

[Ryzaki]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
@ Ryzaki
It's ME2's main plot that is bad. Arrival should have been the main plot (alongside LOSB).

 

ME2's main plot could've easily been fixed by having Shepard get the "ah yes "reapers"." dialogue before Freedom's Progress. And then have the alliance go "ah yes "reapers.". Then everything else would've fallen into place. 

The side stories being disjointed still would've happened bu the mainplot would've been decent. LoTSB was awesomesause though. Best DLC I've played by BW easily. I just wish Shepard wasn't so buddy buddy with Liara. 

[KnightofPhoenix]

@ CGG
Your last paragraph is essentially what I think of Hawke.

ME is about the Reapers. As much as I find the entire concept of the "big bad evil" dull, we are stuck with it in ME. I'd rather have a plot where heavy sacrifices have to be made, instead of what we had in Origins (where we are never shown the gravity of war).

[CulturalGeekGirl]

kromify wrote...

so shepard did a hawke, huh? LOL!

Imagine if, after the Chantry blew up, this dialogue exchange was all you got: 

Meredith & Orsino: Oh my God do you know what this means? Serious stuff is going to go down now!

Hawke: 
- Man I feel sort of responsible for this, I have to see that the right thing is done.
- Ugh, I hate both you guys.
- Hahaha, that was awesome and if you try to blame me for it I'll be angry.

And then the credits roll.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Ryzaki wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
@ Ryzaki
It's ME2's main plot that is bad. Arrival should have been the main plot (alongside LOSB).

 

ME2's main plot could've easily been fixed by having Shepard get the "ah yes "reapers"." dialogue before Freedom's Progress. And then have the alliance go "ah yes "reapers.". Then everything else would've fallen into place.

Collectors were dull and the reveal in the end was meh and it's not clear why this is important to the Reapers (they don't seem to care now). ME2 felt like a filler to me.

[ademska]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
I think I enjoyed Overlord more, but as a sidequest. LOTSB was more of a stand alone story and I loved it as well.

you know, i forgot about how much i enjoyed overlord, but i'd still put it at a close second to losb. both were brilliant fun to play and the writing was phenomenal, but i'd say the shepard-liara and shepard-spectre!asari banter really upped the ante for me. i'm a sucker for great interaction.

[Ryzaki]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Collectors were dull and the reveal in the end was meh and it's not clear why this is important to the Reapers (they don't seem to care now). ME2 felt like a filler to me.

 

The reveal at the end was a bit facepalm inducing but I'd say they cared. They cared enough to beeline to a certain place.  

ME2 was defintely filler. Shep ends up in pretty much the same position he was in at the end of ME1. 

That said I defintely enjoyed watching Shepard. I just wish he'd facepalmed at the "ah yes 'reapers'."

Modifié par Ryzaki, 04 juillet 2011 - 09:54 .

[CulturalGeekGirl]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

@ CGG
Your last paragraph is essentially what I think of Hawke.

ME is about the Reapers. As much as I find the entire concept of the "big bad evil" dull, we are stuck with it in ME. I'd rather have a plot where heavy sacrifices have to be made, instead of what we had in Origins (where we are never shown the gravity of war).

In the way that DA2 seems to be meant to explain more of the emotion, motivation, politics, and 'magical theory' behind the mages vs. templars conflict, I feel like ME2 exists to explain some of the Reapers' strategy and motivation in a way that will seriously inform ME3, and pre-answers a lot of "well why don't the Reapers do X?" "well how do the Reapers do X?" questions that ME3 would otherwise be called upon to  answer. I could end up being completely wrong about this.

I will concede that heavier sacrifices would have been nice, but I think that what ME2 told us about how the Reapers operate and what the aftereffects of a Reaping looks like is invaluable in informing the continuing story. And I can't say anything else without thpoilers.

That said, Dragon Age is my Angst Sandwich and Mass Effect is my Heroism S'more. I think having the two different universes reflect massively different feelings, goals, and moods is effing awesome and not something most studios could pull off. When I play DA I'm all ready for tough choices and angst and darkness and a little cheese with my whine. When I play Mass Effect I'm all ready to kick *** and chew gum.

[KnightofPhoenix]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

@ CGG
Your last paragraph is essentially what I think of Hawke.

ME is about the Reapers. As much as I find the entire concept of the "big bad evil" dull, we are stuck with it in ME. I'd rather have a plot where heavy sacrifices have to be made, instead of what we had in Origins (where we are never shown the gravity of war).

In the way that DA2 seems to be meant to explain more of the emotion, motivation, politics, and 'magical theory' behind the mages vs. templars conflict

No it doesn't beyond superficialities and a few lines of dialogue. Bioware never explored politics in depth (or well / anything better than average) in the games I played. Certainly not in DA2.

Both ME and DA end up making everyone an idiot to make sense of the simplistic plot they've been throwing at us over and over again.

Emotions, sure.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 04 juillet 2011 - 10:03 .

[beckaliz]

@KoP

Don't tell me Stolen Throne is bad. D: I'm halfway through it already. T_T

What does LOTSB stand for? *derp* .... Oh! Right! Hahaha I loved shooting the electric towers! I liked Overlord, too. Made me cry. But I played it before Firewalker and the vehicle confused me.

Anders sure likes kittens. I love kittens too. I am on my way home to see my kitties right now in fact! I get to spend 2 hours on a hotel shuttle bus. Yaaaaay.

[Ryzaki]

...I hate the Hammerhead.

If I see it in ME3 I will rage.

Stupid tissue paper piece of crap.

It is the sole reason I only played Overlord once.  

Modifié par Ryzaki, 04 juillet 2011 - 10:11 .

[Evilnor]

my god, the Anders thread has made me want to go back and play ME 1 and 2 again and possibly actually get some DLCs. What the heck is wrong with me?

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Ugh, there are too many things to argue about, I'm having three stooges syndrome... where all the ideas try to get through my brain at the same time so they all get stuck. I'm going to try to take the ME2 chatter to PMs at least.

I'm sitting on a draft of a big response to the post about Anders' culpability that was made before I even left for the wedding, and I've got like five text documents open with notes on various subjects. Basically, this thread is a horrible wasting addiction. Sadly right now with my shoulder screwed up, there's not much else I can do. Time for some vicodin, and we'll see if that leads to ranting or sleeping.

[KnightofPhoenix]

beckaliz wrote...

@KoP

Don't tell me Stolen Throne is bad. D: I'm halfway through it already. T_T

It may not be bad, But it's certainly not my kind of book. It kind of annoyed me.

What does LOTSB stand for? *derp* .... Oh! Right! Hahaha I loved shooting the electric towers! I liked Overlord, too. Made me cry. But I played it before Firewalker and the vehicle confused me. 

I teared up at the end of Overlord. Kept David in the facility. Hated that my Shepard punched Archer without me being able to avoid it.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 04 juillet 2011 - 10:18 .