57020 réponses à ce sujet

[SurelyForth]

See, even Gone-Batty, who has attempted to make it work for them in a realistic way, operates on the assumption that there is some underlying attraction between them when there is, I would say, abosolutely none as presented by the game.

DA2 lacks a lot of things, but it does a fairly good job of hinting at the characters' lives outside of Hawke. We know that Varric protects Anders and Merrill, that he and Anders are on friendly terms, and that Aveline and Isabela become friends, too. Fenris sleeps with Isabela and hangs out with Donnic and Varric and does, it would appear, mercenary work. Even Sebastian and Fenris are friendly towards each other, even though I would punch Seb were I Fenris.

There is no connection between Fenris and Anders besides the fact that they both know Hawke. There is nothing that is revealed between them that isn't revealed to Hawke first and there is nothing either says or does to or for the other that hints of anything but a recognition that they are hate and hated by each other.

I'm not opposed to Fenders art at all (if I were, I'd have to unfollow about half of my tumblr list) and some of it is gorgeous, but I feel a whole lot of "What?" when I hear people talk about them being true love or whatever, the same way I feel weird about anyone who honestly thinks that Morrigan and Alistair had a secret thing going.

*wishes everyone would ship Varanders instead*

Modifié par SurelyForth, 05 juillet 2011 - 11:44 .

[Heidenreich]

I can't see Varric sleeping with Anders. Heck, I cant even picture him sleeping with a male-anyone. He just doesn't give off that vibe. Heck, at this point he's asexual in my brain, being more like everyone's big brother rather then any kind of sexual object.. and that's totally because of WHO he is as a person rather then because he's a dwarf.

Because male dwarves are sexy. Especially Varric. ****yea!

[SurelyForth]

Heidenreich wrote...

I can't see Varric sleeping with Anders. Heck, I cant even picture him sleeping with a male-anyone. He just doesn't give off that vibe. Heck, at this point he's asexual in my brain, being more like everyone's big brother rather then any kind of sexual object.. and that's totally because of WHO he is as a person rather then because he's a dwarf.

Because male dwarves are sexy. Especially Varric. ****yea!

Heh. I was (mostly) joking. But if we have to have an implausible m/m pairing, I would prefer Varric/Anders to anyone else because...Varric is awesome and makes everything (including Anders) better.

Anyway! This week's prompt is up on Manifestos Welcome. I really like this one, and I hope I'll have the time to actually participate this week.

[beckaliz]

If there's anything I could wish about Hawke's relationship in-game with Anders in Act 3, before "Justice", it's hearing something other than "I think we should be focusing on the task at hand". Before that he's all "can I talk to you privately plz? it's srs bzns". You have to go home and he tells you your support has meant the world to him. And Fenris, even after he dumps you, has all those sexy lines.

I know all the reasons why this is so, and it's just him being kind of a Debby Downer, it's just that I wish we could have more interaction with LIs between the end of Act 2 and when the **** hits the fan in Act 3.

Bah, I'm just whining. I think I had a point but I lost it somewhere.

Heidenreich wrote...

I can't see Varric sleeping with Anders. Heck, I cant even picture him sleeping with a male-anyone. He just doesn't give off that vibe. Heck, at this point he's asexual in my brain, being more like everyone's big brother rather then any kind of sexual object.. and that's totally because of WHO he is as a person rather then because he's a dwarf.

Because male dwarves are sexy. Especially Varric. ****yea!

Yeah, this.

Modifié par beckaliz, 05 juillet 2011 - 12:04 .

[SurelyForth]

ElleMullineux wrote...

But back to Anders, in canon there is no way that he would romance anyone else. Ever. At all. But I loved the buddy relationship with Varric, and I would have loved to have seen even more of it. I can imagine them swapping tips on how best to cut their hair when it gets too long.

Anders: Well...I just pull it all back and cut it off at once.
Varric: Sure, that suits your whole Handsome Hobo aesthetic, but I prefer a more...refined appearance.
Anders: Let me guess...you have a person?
Varric: I do! Have to look good for Bianca. I can give you her name, if you want.
Anders: Do I look like I want?
Varric: You look the usual- sleepy, sad and piney. So...yes?
Anders: No. I couldn't afford it, anyway.
Varric: I can think of at least one person who'd be willing to foot the bill, Blondie.

ALSO! Appropriate:


by jakface/enerjak

Modifié par SurelyForth, 05 juillet 2011 - 12:58 .

[berelinde]

Speaking of hair, has anyone seen this new Anders morph? Time to get out the box of corndogs.

Edit: He reminds me of Hayder, for some reason... or Martin(?!). The latter would be appropriate, since he's voiced by Adam Leadbeater.

Rakish_Anders

Modifié par berelinde, 05 juillet 2011 - 12:29 .

[Toastyblue2]

ademska wrote...

but yeah no fenders is incomprehensible to me. you put it well from a fenris fan's perspective; the chantry bit is especially poignant given sebastian's banters with him, and his gradual respect of what the chantry offers and the templar order. from the perspective of an anders fan, i can't see anders ever falling into an actual sexual relationship with someone whose overbearing character trait is an enduring hatred of mages. hawke on the pro-templar rivalry path still does not approach fenris' vehement beliefs (just as pro-mage friendship hawke does not come close to anders'), and to romance anders hawke must show some sort of affection toward him. just as anders gains friendship if hawke gives fenris to danarius(!!!), so too i imagine fenris would gain friendship if anders could be similarly screwed over. they just really ****ing hate each other

i've seen people give reasoned arguments on how these obstacles can be overcome, but dismissing the very cores of their respective personalities and belief systems, which potentially endure hawke's ribbing for six years without bending, just seems lazy and emphatically out of character.

Very well said. I can ship Anders with just about anyone, and I mean anyone, but I have a lot of difficulties writing him with someone who is so fundamentally his polar opposite that they have pretty much absolutely nothing in common. They're almost like this fandom's Hermione/Draco. Opposite to their very core, opposite due to their backgrounds and what makes them who they are as characters.

Some people like to write hatesex, but I just cannot do it. I can see the appeal in "I'm going to do you to humiliate you and make you feel like less of a person", but I a) can't imagine Anders wanting to sleep with anyone under that premonition, and can't imagine Fenris wanting to put his manhoodelfhood near a mage, a mage that has proven himself to be dangerous and aggressive, and a mage that clearly has demonstrated that he doesn't like him.

If you like it, more power to you. Ain't nothing wrong with a little sexy funtimes.

(On the subject of Varric/Anders, I've been playing with a plot bunny for awhile now. I think it's possible as a one-night stand. Very possible. Maybe Varric gets curious?)

[berelinde]

Toastyblue2 wrote...
Some people like to write hatesex, but I just cannot do it. I can see the appeal in "I'm going to do you to humiliate you and make you feel like less of a person", but I a) can't imagine Anders wanting to sleep with anyone under that premonition, and can't imagine Fenris wanting to put his manhoodelfhood near a mage, a mage that has proven himself to be dangerous and aggressive, and a mage that clearly has demonstrated that he doesn't like him.

I like Hawke X Fenris hatesex. Very, very much. Embarrassingly so, in fact. And Fenders does incomprehensible things to my imagination, in a good way. But do I think it would actually happen... er... if it weren't a game? No way. So no Fenders in my fanfic, thanks. Gone-Batty is another story...

[highcastle]

berelinde wrote...

Speaking of hair, has anyone seen this new Anders morph? Time to get out the box of corndogs.

Edit: He reminds me of Hayder, for some reason... or Martin(?!). The latter would be appropriate, since he's voiced by Adam Leadbeater.

Rakish_Anders

So...once more we see modders always go too far. Tattoos, those freaky eyes everyone seems to like but I hate, a scar, and the new hairstyle. Edit, people, edit. As a writer, I cut out things I like all the time because they may be pretty on their own, but when viewed with the whole it's just too much.

Regarding Fenders: while I can appreciate how hot the art is, I can't read the fics or comics because I can't make the leap in logic of it being anything more than eye candy. I'm fine with relationships built on misunderstanding and even mutual dislike that grows into grudging respect and perhaps even something more. It can be super hot. But to make it work for Fenders, you have to ignore the fact that Anders has it bad for Hawke no matter what, no matter how s/he treats him, who s/he's actually involved with, or what s/he says. And by doing that, I think you miss an integral part of Anders' character.

He gave up loving or being intimate with anyone so he could accomplish their goals. He met one person who got through to him despite the vows he made to himself. If he's falling in love all over the place, it cheapens the committment he made to his cause. In my opinion, of course.

[YamiSnuffles]

SurelyForth wrote...

*wishes everyone would ship Varanders instead*

You have given me the idea for the best crack comic. Now if only I can find time to fo it.

Modifié par YamiSnuffles, 05 juillet 2011 - 12:36 .

[autumnyte]

Arquen wrote...

Nothing to do with s/s relationships. I personally do not understand why fans immediately put together 2 men or boyish pretty men (yaoi) that in the stories/movies/whatever they are in have no sexual relationship. It isn't about homosexual it is about forcing two people together who have maybe a friendship or an implied bromance and take it to mean explicit sexual relation.

Frodo and sam
Cap'n jack sparrow and will
Name 2 anime men.. anywhere...

It just baffles me why they must always end up making out/ having sex, being in a relationship because... what? Two hot men doing hot stuff is hot? I don't get the appeal is all.

It isn't just slashers, though, a lot of fans like to explore non-canon pairings. Sometimes there is an element of subtext present and it can be fun to tease that out and explore it in ways that aren't covered in the text.

Some people will just pair up any two people they think are pretty, and that doesn't have much appeal to me personally. But reading and writing about characters who maybe have a bit of chemistry but aren't explicitly together in the source material can be fun.

Fenders also strikes me as completely implausible in any real sense, but I do enjoy some of the fanworks without genuinely shipping it.  

[berelinde]

highcastle wrote...
Regarding Fenders: while I can appreciate how hot the art is, I can't read the fics or comics because I can't make the leap in logic of it being anything more than eye candy. I'm fine with relationships built on misunderstanding and even mutual dislike that grows into grudging respect and perhaps even something more. It can be super hot. But to make it work for Fenders, you have to ignore the fact that Anders has it bad for Hawke no matter what, no matter how s/he treats him, who s/he's actually involved with, or what s/he says. And by doing that, I think you miss an integral part of Anders' character.

He gave up loving or being intimate with anyone so he could accomplish their goals. He met one person who got through to him despite the vows he made to himself. If he's falling in love all over the place, it cheapens the committment he made to his cause. In my opinion, of course.

*Applauds madly*

Thank you for expressing my thoughts on the subject better than I could have done myself.

[SurelyForth]

YamiSnuffles wrote...

SurelyForth wrote...

*wishes everyone would ship Varanders instead*

You have given me the idea for the best crack comic. Now if only I can find time to fo it.

 If you can't find time, I might have to add my name to your list. Yami Crack is the Best.

[Sialater]

Oooh, 1900 pages and we're back to Fenders.

I find them less likely a pairing than Anders and Nate, and them I can't even see. Doesn't keep the art from being something I stare at luridly, though.

[SurelyForth]

Sialater wrote...

Oooh, 1900 pages and we're back to Fenders.

I find them less likely a pairing than Anders and Nate, and them I can't even see. Doesn't keep the art from being something I stare at luridly, though.

I think we've actually skipped Fenders a few times in  the cycle. This was overdue.

Modifié par SurelyForth, 05 juillet 2011 - 02:15 .

[Heidenreich]

SurelyForth wrote...

Sialater wrote...

Oooh, 1900 pages and we're back to Fenders.

I find them less likely a pairing than Anders and Nate, and them I can't even see. Doesn't keep the art from being something I stare at luridly, though.

I think we've actually skipped Fenders a few times in  the cycle. This was overdue.

I think its due-time for some more of the Hawke-twins and the various anders-incarnation-princesses to resurface

[DragonRacer]

Arquen wrote...

Nothing to do with s/s relationships. I personally do not understand why fans immediately put together 2 men or boyish pretty men (yaoi) that in the stories/movies/whatever they are in have no sexual relationship. It isn't about homosexual it is about forcing two people together who have maybe a friendship or an implied bromance and take it to mean explicit sexual relation.

Frodo and sam
Cap'n jack sparrow and will
Name 2 anime men.. anywhere...

It just baffles me why they must always end up making out/ having sex, being in a relationship because... what? Two hot men doing hot stuff is hot? I don't get the appeal is all.

Don't ever, ever step into Harry Potter fanfiction. Ever. Or if you do, weed veeeeery carefully. Because that is a powderkeg of random, bizarro pairings... Harry Potter/Draco Malfoy, Remus Lupin/Sirius Black, and the list goes on and on.

*ahem*

Have a Dragon Anders...

[Sialater]

SurelyForth wrote...

Sialater wrote...

Oooh, 1900 pages and we're back to Fenders.

I find them less likely a pairing than Anders and Nate, and them I can't even see. Doesn't keep the art from being something I stare at luridly, though.

I think we've actually skipped Fenders a few times in  the cycle. This was overdue.

True.  I've long ago noted that a lot of character threads tend to be like the characters themselves.  At least the ones I frequent.

[YamiSnuffles]

Heidenreich wrote...

SurelyForth wrote...

Sialater wrote...

Oooh, 1900 pages and we're back to Fenders.

I find them less likely a pairing than Anders and Nate, and them I can't even see. Doesn't keep the art from being something I stare at luridly, though.

I think we've actually skipped Fenders a few times in  the cycle. This was overdue.

I think its due-time for some more of the Hawke-twins and the various anders-incarnation-princesses to resurface

Hahaha. I've been trying to get back to that, so I leave it on my desktop in the hope that seeing it all the time will eventually guilt me into action. Unfortunately, so far, my muse refuses to bite. That and I'm pretty much drawing in all my free time now.

[Patchwork]

Shallow poster is shallow

Fenders has pretty art and a few stories on the kink meme have caught my attention but it's not something I could ship. Taken as pretty men being pretty I'm cool with it.

Remus and Sirius make perfect sense to me I was shocked when Tonks happened. Of course Tonks/Remus sucked for many reasons beyond my firm belief in Remus/Sirius.

[River5]

To quote one of my favourite characters, Spike (from BTVS):

"You're not friends. You'll never be friends. You'll be in
love till it kills you both. You'll fight, and you'll shag,
and you'll hate each other until it makes you quiver, but
you'll never be friends. Love isn't brains, children, it's
blood -- blood screaming inside you to work its will. I may
be love's ****, but at least I'm man enough to admit it."

I just find it funny that we are discussing Fenders, or any other pairing (canon or non canon) using pure logic.  Lol!  When, most of the time, what love does is DEFY any logic, and completely go against what our head would be trying to tell us.  Forget the laws of physics, psychology, philosophy...  Forget about making sense and sticking or not to your own beliefs.  When love takes hold, all the rules fly out the windows!

For example, when Spike was first introduced to BTVS...  If someone would have tried to tell me that he would fall in love with Buffy by the end of season 7 back then, I could have found at least 100 reasons why that wouldn't make any sense, and would be almost insulting to the characters themselves.

And yet, over the course of the years, both characters changed, evolved, to the point where them being attracted to each other made sense...  Sort of!  Lol!  At first, in a very, VERY sick way.

Same thing often happens in real life.  You see your friend being getting involved with a man that seems 100% wrong for her, or sometimes even worse, the relationship seems downright abusive to you.  And yet, she keeps going back to the guy like he was some kind of drug.

Sometimes, a romantic pairing can be so "wrong", it almost seems pathological.

But you can probably never really predict on what level two characters are going to connect.

[Sialater]

River5 wrote...

To quote one of my favourite characters, Spike (from BTVS):

"You're not friends. You'll never be friends. You'll be in
love till it kills you both. You'll fight, and you'll shag,
and you'll hate each other until it makes you quiver, but
you'll never be friends. Love isn't brains, children, it's
blood -- blood screaming inside you to work its will. I may
be love's ****, but at least I'm man enough to admit it."

I just find it funny that we are discussing Fenders, or any other pairing (canon or non canon) using pure logic.  Lol!  When, most of the time, what love does is DEFY any logic, and completely go against what our head would be trying to tell us.  Forget the laws of physics, psychology, philosophy...  Forget about making sense and sticking or not to your own beliefs.  When love takes hold, all the rules fly out the windows!

For example, when Spike was first introduced to BTVS...  If someone would have tried to tell me that he would fall in love with Buffy by the end of season 7 back then, I could have found at least 100 reasons why that wouldn't make any sense, and would be almost insulting to the characters themselves.

And yet, over the course of the years, both characters changed, evolved, to the point where them being attracted to each other made sense...  Sort of!  Lol!  At first, in a very, VERY sick way.

Same thing often happens in real life.  You see your friend being getting involved with a man that seems 100% wrong for her, or sometimes even worse, the relationship seems downright abusive to you.  And yet, she keeps going back to the guy like he was some kind of drug.

Sometimes, a romantic pairing can be so "wrong", it almost seems pathological.

But you can probably never really predict on what level two characters are going to connect.

The problem with comparing Spuffy to Fenders is that over the course of the exact same time-frame, Fenris and Anders DO NOT even remotely come to any sort of truce and do not even respect each other.

Spike's and Buffy's respect began in Season 2.  Then she felt sorry for him with the chip in his head.

There's no such evolution with Fenris and Anders.

[KnightofPhoenix]

River5 wrote...
Love isn't brains, children, it's
blood -- blood screaming inside you to work its will. I may
be love's ****, but at least I'm man enough to admit it."[/i]

*rolls eyes*

I have a completely different conception of love.