ipgd wrote...
Not in DAO. Awakening, yes, but that is obviously a matter of gameplay/story segregation. Just like Hawke learning Reaver and Blood Mage with no explanation.beckaliz wrote...
You can buy a manual at one of the inns, I thought.
Modifié par beckaliz, 07 juillet 2011 - 02:35 .
Guest_Queen-Of-Stuff_*
SurelyForth wrote...
This.
But I cheated, with my Warden and my Hawke. Warden read about it and maybe the Taint helped? And Hawke just consumed A LOT of dragon blood. With Hawke, I didn't want to make her the sort of person who'd want to be a Reaver, so I'm choosing to pretend that the ritual is basically adding vodka and some spices to make it more palatable.
Modifié par Queen-Of-Stuff, 07 juillet 2011 - 02:47 .
beckaliz wrote...
Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...
beckaliz wrote...
@SurelyForth: So the Reaver specialty requires a ritual even if you can learn it from a manual in DA:O?
According to the lore, you learn it by tasting the ritually prepared blood of a dragon. And you don't learn it through a manual in Origins, you learn it by helping the cultists. If there is a manual in Awakenings, it's probably just game mechanics. But Merrill is likely to know of the ritual and there's plenty of dragons about, so there's no need to handwave a Reaver Hawke.
On my first PT Correm learned Templar and Berserker specialty, but I didn't put any points into Templar, I think. Replaying him I gave him more Templar skills and a couple of the Reaver ones. I suppose that makes him a bit of a hypocrite.
Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 07 juillet 2011 - 03:06 .
Guest_Queen-Of-Stuff_*
CulturalGeekGirl wrote...
It's the vaguaries in both games about how much of Templaring can be done without lyrium or learned without the Chantry that intrigue me.
Lir always goes heavily into Templar skills and friendmances Anders. I kind of wish Blood Magic and Templar specializations would at least get a mention if Hawke uses them (sort of like Anders use of blood magic got that one line joke in Awakening.) In my mind, Lir learned Templar skills for a number of reasons: partially for a "know thy enemy" kind of thing, a little because Beth was scared fo becoming an abomination when she was younger, and she goes for this even more heavily in Kirkwall because both Anders and Merril are around and... while she doesn't believe anything would happen, she wants to prepare for the worst. Also, she believes that the idea of "mundanes" being able to use Templar skills shows that people could be protected from rogue mages without the Chantry. You could have people fulfilling the role of Templar without the hate. If a normal person learns Templar skills, then really are they at that much of a disadvantage if they fight a mage? Access to Templar skills makes everyone feel more equal.
In my mind, this is a fight Anders and Lir have a lot, and it's also how I explain the three years of obsession before they get together: her skills have a lot of really negative connotations for him, and he's kind of paranoid about her. She looks and feels like a Templar, but does nothing but help mages. She wants to reform Andrasteism as much as he does. It's like he's in a friendmance with her but he feels like he should be in a rivalmance. She argues that having people around with Templar skills is no more dangerous to mages than having people around with mage skills is dangerous to normal folks.
Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...
CulturalGeekGirl wrote...
It's the vaguaries in both games about how much of Templaring can be done without lyrium or learned without the Chantry that intrigue me.
Lir always goes heavily into Templar skills and friendmances Anders. I kind of wish Blood Magic and Templar specializations would at least get a mention if Hawke uses them (sort of like Anders use of blood magic got that one line joke in Awakening.) In my mind, Lir learned Templar skills for a number of reasons: partially for a "know thy enemy" kind of thing, a little because Beth was scared fo becoming an abomination when she was younger, and she goes for this even more heavily in Kirkwall because both Anders and Merril are around and... while she doesn't believe anything would happen, she wants to prepare for the worst. Also, she believes that the idea of "mundanes" being able to use Templar skills shows that people could be protected from rogue mages without the Chantry. You could have people fulfilling the role of Templar without the hate. If a normal person learns Templar skills, then really are they at that much of a disadvantage if they fight a mage? Access to Templar skills makes everyone feel more equal.
In my mind, this is a fight Anders and Lir have a lot, and it's also how I explain the three years of obsession before they get together: her skills have a lot of really negative connotations for him, and he's kind of paranoid about her. She looks and feels like a Templar, but does nothing but help mages. She wants to reform Andrasteism as much as he does. It's like he's in a friendmance with her but he feels like he should be in a rivalmance. She argues that having people around with Templar skills is no more dangerous to mages than having people around with mage skills is dangerous to normal folks.
So, how did your Hawke learn templar abilities? According to Alistair, they are secrets well hidden. Did she join the Order for a period of time and then jump off the train before she had to take her vows? Or did she find an ex-templar still addicted to lyrium and then traded lyrium in exchange for his knowledge?
Or... stuff...
ashyraine wrote...
Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...
So, how did your Hawke learn templar abilities? According to Alistair, they are secrets well hidden. Did she join the Order for a period of time and then jump off the train before she had to take her vows? Or did she find an ex-templar still addicted to lyrium and then traded lyrium in exchange for his knowledge?
Or... stuff...
I'm sure Samson would trade knowledge for lyrium or ...stuff (okay I just threw up in my mouth a little)
SurelyForth wrote...
And I so wanted templar to be a thing with Anders, like a source of angst between him and Hawke (this was before I knew that he himself was a source of angst). But mages can have anti-magic spells that are just as, if not more, potent than anything a templar can have (Mana Clash > Holy Smite), so if it's clear that templaring is for defense against enemy spellcasters and not for mage hunting, I can see him being cool with a friendly Hawke knowing how to do templary things.
SurelyForth wrote...
ashyraine wrote...
Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...
So, how did your Hawke learn templar abilities? According to Alistair, they are secrets well hidden. Did she join the Order for a period of time and then jump off the train before she had to take her vows? Or did she find an ex-templar still addicted to lyrium and then traded lyrium in exchange for his knowledge?
Or... stuff...
I'm sure Samson would trade knowledge for lyrium or ...stuff (okay I just threw up in my mouth a little)
Wil starts by asking Thrask, and he trains her because she's helping keep Kirkwall's murder mage population under control. And it gives him something to do besides haunt the Blooming Rose.
And I so wanted templar to be a thing with Anders, like a source of angst between him and Hawke (this was before I knew that he himself was a source of angst). But mages can have anti-magic spells that are just as, if not more, potent than anything a templar can have (Mana Clash > Holy Smite), so if it's clear that templaring is for defense against enemy spellcasters and not for mage hunting, I can see him being cool with a friendly Hawke knowing how to do templary things.
Soapbubbles wrote...
The rogue specs are the only ones that don't raise issues with me, and the force mage one can almost be explained by Hawke meeting an apostate from the Kirkwall Circle. That apostate could have been Malcolm.
Modifié par highcastle, 07 juillet 2011 - 04:34 .
highcastle wrote...
Soapbubbles wrote...
The rogue specs are the only ones that don't raise issues with me, and the force mage one can almost be explained by Hawke meeting an apostate from the Kirkwall Circle. That apostate could have been Malcolm.
Yeah, the mages ones (aside from blood magic) don't raise any issues with me. Malcolm spent time in both Kirkwall (which is known for its force mages) and Ferelden (which seems to be a hot-spot for spirit healers). I get the sense that he taught his children quite well, so I see no problem justifying either of those specs. There's nothing to say Mal couldn't have been a blood mage, either. It might even be interesting dynamic (even though I'd like to think there are some mages out there that don't become maleficarum outside the Circle). My problem stems from the fact that no one seems to care Hawke's a blood mage. Ergo, I can't play one without it breaking my head canon.
ETA: Man, I called Papa Hawke "Mal" and now I just have this wonderful image in my head of who he must be...
http://t2.gstatic.co...9OT_nOdAx4WaHZo
Fitting since he's one of her influences.
Guest_Queen-Of-Stuff_*
highcastle wrote...
I would have loved it if specilizations made more of an impact on dialogue. Blood mage comes to mind, too. It should have been a major source of angst for Anders, Fenris, and Sebastian in particular. You have to figure Merrill would have cared, also. As it stands, I can't pick it as a spec because it breaks my immersion to have absolutely nobody notice something that important to the lore.
Guest_Queen-Of-Stuff_*
Soapbubbles wrote...
At least in DA:O when you were a blood mage Wynne said something, right? Or am I imagining it?
Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...
Soapbubbles wrote...
At least in DA:O when you were a blood mage Wynne said something, right? Or am I imagining it?
There was a scenario where Wynne told Knight-Commander Greagoir and First Enchanter Irving about you being a blood mage, making them attack you if you fail to convince them otherwise and forcing you to kill them. This was taken out of the final game, however, since it made it impossible to get to the Landsmeet. A shame, really. Though it would make me dislike Wynne even more than I already do.
Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...
Soapbubbles wrote...
At least in DA:O when you were a blood mage Wynne said something, right? Or am I imagining it?
There was a scenario where Wynne told Knight-Commander Greagoir and First Enchanter Irving about you being a blood mage, making them attack you if you fail to convince them otherwise and forcing you to kill them. This was taken out of the final game, however, since it made it impossible to get to the Landsmeet. A shame, really. Though it would make me dislike Wynne even more than I already do.
Would have made me sad to kill Irving and Greagoir though, but I always put a million points into charm/persuade. 
Soapbubbles wrote...
Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...
Soapbubbles wrote...
At least in DA:O when you were a blood mage Wynne said something, right? Or am I imagining it?
There was a scenario where Wynne told Knight-Commander Greagoir and First Enchanter Irving about you being a blood mage, making them attack you if you fail to convince them otherwise and forcing you to kill them. This was taken out of the final game, however, since it made it impossible to get to the Landsmeet. A shame, really. Though it would make me dislike Wynne even more than I already do.
I wish that wasn't taken out, that's brilliant.
Soapbubbles wrote...
Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...
Soapbubbles wrote...
At least in DA:O when you were a blood mage Wynne said something, right? Or am I imagining it?
There was a scenario where Wynne told Knight-Commander Greagoir and First Enchanter Irving about you being a blood mage, making them attack you if you fail to convince them otherwise and forcing you to kill them. This was taken out of the final game, however, since it made it impossible to get to the Landsmeet. A shame, really. Though it would make me dislike Wynne even more than I already do.
I wish that wasn't taken out, that's brilliant.
Patriciachr34 wrote...
There is a pc mod that puts it back in and doesn't break landsmeet. I didn't use it for my BM run (still in progress), but I've seen the youtube vids.
Soapbubbles wrote...
Patriciachr34 wrote...
There is a pc mod that puts it back in and doesn't break landsmeet. I didn't use it for my BM run (still in progress), but I've seen the youtube vids.
Do you have the links for it on youtube? After the combat in DA2 I have a tough time standing DA:O.
Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...
That said, I still often choose blood magic as a spec, partly to see the somewhat grotesque battle animations, partly as a way of trolling everyone.
KnightofPhoenix wrote...
In the context of DA2, Fenris and Anders have to react badly to a Hawke blood mage.
I seriously don't want to pay just for a map and waves of random mobs and darkspawn to kill, for a weapon and some "revelations" on Hawke lineage.Modifié par Dunizel, 07 juillet 2011 - 09:44 .
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