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[highcastle]

ElleMullineux wrote...

highcastle wrote...

ElleMullineux wrote...

Honestly? I leave the forums for like 24 hours and I miss Hepler? (Note to self - Never leave.)

If you're still reading this, I hope baby Hepler is happy and healthy, congratulations.

And yes! Any Anders dialogue makes me warm and fuzzy, and terribly excited. Roll on the 26th!!!

Hawke!voice: "Don't ever leave."

I want you right here until the day we die!

Do you mean that? Would you tell the world, the knight-commander, that you prowl the internet with a crazy person?

[CulturalGeekGirl]

beckaliz wrote...

Erm. I haven't played KotOR. 9-9 Sniff. But I only got the 360 in March, and Dragon Age has devoured my soul.

But yes, really. And BioWare has a strong bent towards the characters themselves. An adventure is an adventure, and if you're just writing, well, it's not like you necessarily have to come up with the environments and technological details. Although I guess I don't know too much about it myself, maybe you would.

Which JAnders conversation would that be? The one that started with the question of whether Anders is possessed or not? Cuz you know we'll wanna hear that stuff from you. 

My point about the movies and KotOR was that there are easy ways to give yourself a nice background. If you wrote a fantasy-like NWN module and ended up getting a job working on a sci-fi property, you could just spend a week playing KotOR and know all you need to know. Well, that and a few wikidives.

Maybe I'm just doing that thing where you have a superpower and so you assume everyone else has that superpower, but yeah, when you're writing for scifi you don't have to scratchbuild everything yourself. You just have to get a general idea of when you'd use clones, when you'd use speeders, when you'd use guns, etc. In Star Wars or an established outside IP like that, you generally already know the technology that is available and the political and social systems that are in place, you just have to navigate them.

Example: Ok, Anders origin story is that, as a kid, they found out he was a mage and took him from his parents. His father was superstitious and glad, and his mother was upset to lose her baby. Now let's flip that into the Star Wars universe. What would have to be different?

Imagine a kid who is discovered to have Jedi potential. The father is proud and sends him off to training, but when the mother finds out he gave her child to the Jedi without consulting her, she is very upset.

It's a similar story, with the different flavors of the universe dictating the different emotions and reactions involved, but you can still tell a story about a kid being taken away from his parents, parents who feel very differently about the situation. You just have to change the variables - mages are hated and feared, Jedi are respected - then extrapolate outward.

I'm not going to say that all SF is the same as fantasy, but most popular SF is made up of stories that could take place in any universe; add a topcoat of lasers and you're all set. A lot of old-fashioned "hard" science fiction is about serious thought about actual science, but I don't know a video game that truly reflects that aesthetic. Most of science fiction in video games is more about the political and social aspects of SF, and Thedas is basically made of political and social metaphors.

And yes, the conversation in question was the "possessed or not" one. The short version of my answer is "it doesn't matter." The long version of it is probably going to be very long.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 09 juillet 2011 - 04:41 .

[highcastle]

ElleMullineux wrote...

highcastle wrote...

ElleMullineux wrote...

highcastle wrote...

ElleMullineux wrote...

Honestly? I leave the forums for like 24 hours and I miss Hepler? (Note to self - Never leave.)

If you're still reading this, I hope baby Hepler is happy and healthy, congratulations.

And yes! Any Anders dialogue makes me warm and fuzzy, and terribly excited. Roll on the 26th!!!

Hawke!voice: "Don't ever leave."

I want you right here until the day we die!

Do you mean that? Would you tell the world, the knight-commander, that you prowl the internet with a crazy person?

I'm not ready for that kind of commitment.

Sad!Anders is sad...

[Heidenreich]

You ladies are like crack, I swear. <3

Modifié par Heidenreich, 09 juillet 2011 - 05:15 .

[Heidenreich]

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...

Heidenreich wrote...

You ladies are like crack, I swear. <3

 Just don't try to smoke them. That's bad for your health.

The only thing I like to smoke, is meat..

I really should be writing.. or maybe playing borderlands.. but probably writing. I need inspiration. Should I do more Tabris storry, or more Hawke snipits..

I'm so confused.

[legbamel]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...
Maybe I'm just doing that thing where you have a superpower and so you assume everyone else has that superpower, but yeah, when you're writing for scifi you don't have to scratchbuild everything yourself. You just have to get a general idea of when you'd use clones, when you'd use speeders, when you'd use guns, etc. In Star Wars or an established outside IP like that, you generally already know the technology that is available and the political and social systems that are in place, you just have to navigate them.
[snip]

I'm not going to say that all SF is the same as fantasy, but most popular SF is made up of stories that could take place in any universe; add a topcoat of lasers and you're all set. A lot of old-fashioned "hard" science fiction is about serious thought about actual science, but I don't know a video game that truly reflects that aesthetic. Most of science fiction in video games is more about the political and social aspects of SF, and Thedas is basically made of political and social metaphors.

I'm of the school of thought that a story is a story and genre is just trappings, for the most part.  A lot of "hard" sci-fi just wraps the story in impressively-researched detail or well-constructed worlds built to...contain the story.  It's pretty rare that the actual science trumps the fiction no matter the shelf you find it on in the library.

[berelinde]

Mmm, sweet pic! Don't know what's going on with Anders's chin, but love that pose!

[Soapbubbles]

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...

Get two computers, type the Tabris story with your left hand and the Hawke story with your right. If you need inspiration, you can do what I do; hire an angry-looking man to point a gun to your head while shouting, "Hurry up and write that crap, WRITE IT WRITE IT WRITE IT!"
Problem solved!

That's brilliant!  Essays just became 30% easier.

I agree that genres are sort of trappings for a story.  There have been so many stories, like fairytales or plays, that were taken out of their original genre and put in a new one and they still work.  For me the difference is that some stories just fit certain genres more comfortably because the story was written specifically for that genre.  But I think this only works if we're using genre to describe things like 'sci-fi, fantasy, western, etc.'

[River5]

highcastle wrote...

ElleMullineux wrote...

highcastle wrote...

ElleMullineux wrote...

highcastle wrote...

ElleMullineux wrote...

Honestly? I leave the forums for like 24 hours and I miss Hepler? (Note to self - Never leave.)

If you're still reading this, I hope baby Hepler is happy and healthy, congratulations.

And yes! Any Anders dialogue makes me warm and fuzzy, and terribly excited. Roll on the 26th!!!

Hawke!voice: "Don't ever leave."

I want you right here until the day we die!

Do you mean that? Would you tell the world, the knight-commander, that you prowl the internet with a crazy person?

I'm not ready for that kind of commitment.

Sad!Anders is sad...

Lol!  I half expected you to answer:

"You used me...  I won't forget this!" 

[CulturalGeekGirl]

legbamel wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...
Maybe I'm just doing that thing where you have a superpower and so you assume everyone else has that superpower, but yeah, when you're writing for scifi you don't have to scratchbuild everything yourself. You just have to get a general idea of when you'd use clones, when you'd use speeders, when you'd use guns, etc. In Star Wars or an established outside IP like that, you generally already know the technology that is available and the political and social systems that are in place, you just have to navigate them.
[snip]

I'm not going to say that all SF is the same as fantasy, but most popular SF is made up of stories that could take place in any universe; add a topcoat of lasers and you're all set. A lot of old-fashioned "hard" science fiction is about serious thought about actual science, but I don't know a video game that truly reflects that aesthetic. Most of science fiction in video games is more about the political and social aspects of SF, and Thedas is basically made of political and social metaphors.

I'm of the school of thought that a story is a story and genre is just trappings, for the most part.  A lot of "hard" sci-fi just wraps the story in impressively-researched detail or well-constructed worlds built to...contain the story.  It's pretty rare that the actual science trumps the fiction no matter the shelf you find it on in the library.

Well now, I'm not going to go that far. There are things like Ghost in the Shell where science is used to ask fundamental questions about humanity that would be unaskable without that particular tech: what makes someone human? Can someone still be human if they're a digitized consciousness? Kim Stanley Robinson's Mars trilogy explores the scientific challenges of terraforming and settling Mars. There is a lot of truly great Science fiction that asks important questions that are at least mostly about science. A lot of parody or comedy science fiction actually does this really well: Futurama and Red Dwarf often have single-episodes that ask hard SF questions about genetics, or the surveilance state, or alternate universes. There was a Futurama epsiode about evolution recently that was effin' BRILLIANT, and completely about science and the doing of science!

The thing is that, other than parody works, most popular Sci-fi isn't that type. It's just cowboys or samurai or pirates or soldiers or pigs in Space. I'm not going to get into a huge deconstruction of which popular SF media franchises are "more sciency" than others (she says after deleting the first sentence of a paragraph that would have done just that), but there's definitely a contiuum. And series that fall on the 'less sciency' end of the contiuum aren't necessarily bad: I'd put two of my favorite SF series, Firefly and Cowboy Beebop, firmly on the less-sciency part of the spectrum.

Every genre has stories it tells especially well, but there are some stories (the young hero rising up, the evil empire, the adventure... as well as the star-crossed love, the triple cross, and the trade negotiation) that can be told equally well in almost any genre. And a lot of those stories are the stories that video games tend to be about.

And honestly, there are a lot of things that fantasy can do that SF can't... going for SF is often a lot about cutting back. While there are plenty of fantastical versions of a virus that renders an entire race mostly sterile, there isn't a good science fiction version of a spirit of Justice. And this is why the Mages aren't just an X-men story; with the x-men you don't have the dangers of demons or the benefits of spirits, which is an important part of this story. You don't have the uncertainty about gods, and the fade, and the afterlife. When you want to do a thing about gods and demons and anthropomorphic personifications and all that, you need to go with fantasy or horror. Or my personal favorite: Sci-fi-fantasy, which is spaceships with elves in

[Amondra]

ElleMullineux wrote...

@HC - I'm sorry! Let's kiss and make up


ChewedTurkey

Now that's a way to make-up!!!

[Evilnor]

I think the word a few of you are looking for is "archetype." They're like general story seeds that transcend genre. Star Wars itself is so successful because it's full of known archetypes, particularly good vs. evil, a nobody becomes great warrior, old man teaches gifted new generation, rebellion against an evil empire, even rescuing a kidnapped princess. The list goes on. These are all elements you can find in a good fantasy novel as well. Heck, in one way or another, you could probably find these archetypes in LotR as well. You certainly see them in DA:O.

Edit: I feel ninja'd by CGG, except I used the word "archetype!"  

Modifié par Evilnor, 09 juillet 2011 - 06:36 .

[DAYtheELF]

Evilnor wrote...

I think the word a few of you are looking for is "archetype." They're like general story seeds that transcend genre. Star Wars itself is so successful because it's full of known archetypes, particularly good vs. evil, a nobody becomes great warrior, old man teaches gifted new generation, rebellion against an evil empire, even rescuing a kidnapped princess. The list goes on. These are all elements you can find in a good fantasy novel as well. Heck, in one way or another, you could probably find these archetypes in LotR as well. You certainly see them in DA:O.

To anyone wanting to write fiction, you should read Joseph Campbell's "The Hero With A Thousand Faces". George Lucas was a student of Campbell's, if I remember right, and based much of how he wrote his stories on Campbell's work.  It's fantastic!

*Edit* PS - Anders is the bee's knees.

Modifié par DAYtheELF, 09 juillet 2011 - 06:38 .

[Toastyblue2]

DAYtheELF wrote...

To anyone wanting to write fiction, you should read Joseph Campbell's "The Hero With A Thousand Faces". George Lucas was a student of Campbell's, if I remember right, and based much of how he wrote his stories on Campbell's work.  It's fantastic!

*Edit* PS - Anders is the bee's knees.

Seconding the rec for this book. It's been 8ish years since I last read it, but I think this is the one that talks about the path of the hero, as well. Believe it or not, even across multiple cultures and languages, the hero archetype tends to do the same stuff (journey to a 'underworld', begins the metaphorical journey or quest due to the aid of a grandfather figure/elderly mentor, etc etc, metaphorical or actual death and rebirth, etc etc etc..)

Posting this picture not only to remain on topic, but it has Sigrun, Anders, and Pounce in it:



By Pyromaniac03

[CulturalGeekGirl]

I shy away from invoking the lit crit terms, probably more than I should. I love Jungian archetypes, but I have some problems with discussion of the monomyth (the 'one story' that The Hero With A Thousand Faces posits). I have a friend who has a fiery dislike of Campbell for reasons that are intellectually fascinating but would take far too long to explain properly. Essentially he feels that modern literary criticism's obsession with Campbell results in 1) many things that aren't really the monomyth being classified as the monomyth and 2) a love of structure that quashes creativity.

I'm not that opposed to the monomyth. I see it as a central structure that is known to be marketable, and if you're working in a game where millions of dollars of investment had jolly well better result in millions of dollars of profit, a good reliable structure that is clearly visible from the cheap seats is a solid thing to start with. Sometimes though I wonder what might be accomplished if we ran away from it a bit, or at least bothered to nicely subvert it. The problem is that it correlates so well with the steady increase in strength and the progression of enemies and mini-bosses that is so comforting and rewarding in a vidya game.

This relates to that common argument that Anders is really the main character of DA2, and should have been the PC. Other than the fact that Anders personality and backstory are too concretely established for a Bioware RPG PC, one of the main problems is that his story isn't a hero's journey one... it's more like a literary novel, with the main character developing mentally and emotionally in response to the pressures of society around him (disclaimer: that's not what all literary novels are about, I'm just using that for contrast, etc.) Video games aren't the best medium for that kind of story, and haven't developed a soild, repeatable technique for telling it. Because of that, Anders couldn't be the PC in a Bioware game, or in most video games (though man, I would love to play a game like that.)

I wonder sometimes if this also relates to the complaints that DA2 isn't 'epic' enough. DA2 is an attempt to lay a classic hero's journey on top of a novel-esque exploration of the rights of man and the duties of society. Hawke lacks the Hero's ultimate triumph at the end, as a Hero's Journey story mandates, but he also lacks the fundamental emotional and personal change that the more novelistic aspects of the story would suggest. Both the rags-to-riches story and the novel of societal change usually focus heavily on the result of such things on the main character, and the dramatic changes wrought on his psyche. However, because Hawke has to be the hero with a thousand faces, he doesn't change in the same way that, say, Raskolnikov does. Most of Hawke's development lives in us, rather than in the text of the game. It's how Hawke can be so different in different fics.

It's interesting to examine Hawke as a hero-type removed from the Hero's Journey structure. The hero has a thousand faces. and could be anyone, but then if you remove him from his ultimate triumph, the question becomes why was he anyone, rather than someone? Fic allows us to make Hawke someone, which is invaluable and helps resolve this incongruity. Most Bioware RPGs offer enough tantalizing hints that it is possible to map your own internal journey onto the generic hero of the day, which is one of their greatest strengths. The problem is that some people aren't satisfied unless they also get the heroic payoff of ultimate victory over a clearly-defined foe.

Also, the fact that discussions like this can just spontaneously erupt in this thread is one of the reasons I love Anders so much. And yes, I do think that the complexity of discussions in a thread often correlates positively with the complexity of a character. Shut up!

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 09 juillet 2011 - 07:46 .

[highcastle]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

I shy away from invoking the lit crit terms, probably more than I should. I love Jungian archetypes, but I have some problems with discussion of the monomyth (the 'one story' that The Hero With A Thousand Faces posits). I have a friend who has a fiery dislike of Campbell for reasons that are intellectually fascinating but would take far too long to explain properly. Essentially he feels that modern literary criticism's obsession with Campbell results in 1) many things that aren't really the monomyth being classified as the monomyth and 2) a love of structure that quashes creativity.

I'm not that opposed to the monomyth. I see it as a central structure that is known to be marketable, and if you're working in a game where millions of dollars of investment had jolly well better result in millions of dollars of profit, a good reliable structure that is clearly visible from the cheap seats is a solid thing to start with. Sometimes though I wonder what might be accomplished if we ran away from it a bit, or at least bothered to nicely subvert it. The problem is that it correlates so well with the steady increase in strength and the progression of enemies and mini-bosses that is so comforting and rewarding in a vidya game.

This relates to that common argument that Anders is really the main character of DA2, and should have been the PC. Other than the fact that Anders personality and backstory are too concretely established for a Bioware RPG PC, one of the main problems is that his story isn't a hero's journey one... it's more like a literary novel, with the main character developing mentally and emotionally in response to the pressures of society around him (disclaimer: that's not what all literary novels are about, I'm just using that for contrast, etc.) Video games aren't the best medium for that kind of story, and haven't developed a soild, repeatable technique for telling it. Because of that, Anders couldn't be the PC in a Bioware game, or in most video games (though man, I would love to play a game like that.)

I wonder sometimes if this also relates to the complaints that DA2 isn't 'epic' enough. DA2 is an attempt to lay a classic hero's journey on top of a novel-esque exploration of the rights of man and the duties of society. Hawke lacks the Hero's ultimate triumph at the end, as a Hero's Journey story mandates, but he also lacks the fundamental emotional and personal change that the more novelistic aspects of the story would suggest. Both the rags-to-riches story and the novel of societal change usually focus heavily on the result of such things on the main character, and the dramatic changes wrought on his psyche. However, because Hawke has to be the hero with a thousand faces, he doesn't change in the same way that, say, Raskolnikov does. Most of Hawke's development lives in us, rather than in the text of the game. It's how Hawke can be so different in different fics.

It's interesting to examine Hawke as a hero-type removed from the Hero's Journey structure. The hero has a thousand faces. and could be anyone, but then if you remove him from his ultimate triumph, the question becomes why was he anyone, rather than someone? Fic allows us to make Hawke someone, which is invaluable and helps resolve this incongruity. Most Bioware RPGs offer enough tantalizing hints that it is possible to map your own internal journey onto the generic hero of the day, which is one of their greatest strengths. The problem is that some people aren't satisfied unless they also get the heroic payoff of ultimate victory over a clearly-defined foe.

Also, the fact that discussions like this can just spontaneously erupt in this thread is one of the reasons I love Anders so much. And yes, I do think that the complexity of discussions in a thread often correlates positively with the complexity of a character. Shut up!

*slow clap* I agree with much of what you've said, and I'm also a firm believer that Campbell's hero and monomyth results in a lot of pidgeon-holing and should really go the way of the dodo in many ways. Look at how often fantasy in particular gets slammed with the "anonymous farm boy rises to power and triumphs over a great evil" plot. That could apply to Lord of the Rings, The Wheel of Time, The Sword of Truth, along with countless lesser known novels. Squashing of creativity, check.

The one thing I want to note, though, is that just because Hawke has to be left open enough for various interpretations doesn't mean he can't undergrow character growth. But that growth is in the hands of the player. Video games are interactive by nature, and what a game like DA2 does is ask us to change rather than just changing our hero. They could have given us all knew personality options after All That Remains and forced a change on us. Instead, they asked us to explore different emotional responses and come up with one that resonates with us.

I don't think many people are used to feeling something in a video game beyond triumph over an enemy and the occasional frustration of a setback, though. Few games are comfortable plumbing the depths of other emotions. I think part of this is because the medium is still stuck with the idea that the player must "win" all the time. DA2 presented a different type of story in that the ending isn't really a win for anybody. And that's what frustrates many people, I think. It's new and different, thus we're not sure how to react to it.

As someone who believes games can be just as artistically valid as any other medium, I loved it. It's not perfect, but it's a step in the direction of crafting stories that can be about more than the defeat of a great evil. They can also be about losing not to evil, but to societal pressures greater than any one man.

[Evilnor]

I think one of the things I like best about DA2 is that it doesn't follow the classic hero's journey to the letter. Yes, Hawke has a decisive victory over an undeniable evil (Arishok) but the story doesn't end there. Once Hawke is the hero, what happens then? The story doesn't end in a decisive victory or "happily ever after." The closest we get to that is "everyone left, except for <love interest>." The world goes on. Heck, even the idea that Hawke's actions are leading to something better or worse are completely up in the air. The whole story doesn't end, but the main character's time as a central player does, with no passing of the baton. I think it's that ambiguity and realism that contribute to me liking this game so much.

Oh, and while the story may treat Anders as possibly the most important character in the game, I'm sure players would have complained about railroading, had they been forced to control him as the main character. I'd love to read his story as a book, though. Enter fanfiction! I'd say new David Gaider book, but too many of the neat details are wrapped up in actual playable game that he'd get yelled at for writing as canon.

[Morroian]

Evilnor wrote...

I think one of the things I like best about DA2 is that it doesn't follow the classic hero's journey to the letter. Yes, Hawke has a decisive victory over an undeniable evil (Arishok) but the story doesn't end there. Once Hawke is the hero, what happens then? The story doesn't end in a decisive victory or "happily ever after." The closest we get to that is "everyone left, except for <love interest>." The world goes on. Heck, even the idea that Hawke's actions are leading to something better or worse are completely up in the air. The whole story doesn't end, but the main character's time as a central player does, with no passing of the baton.

I would have thought that was up in the air as well. It could be read as Hawke's political awakening, especially as a mage.

[Giggles_Manically]

I view Dragon Age 2 simply as a dramatic documentary about the origin of the Mage-Templar war.

Hawke was just the "camera" to these events if you will.
As is Varric really.

I found it interesting TBH.
Cause I hate playing a PC that gets stuff heaped on them left and right.

As in one warden I had:
Was brother to the king of Orzamar.
A living Paragon.
Had the ear of the Queen of Fereldan.
Ruled Amaranthine.
Was the commander of all the Grey Warden's in Fereldan.
Broke curses, demons, and myths on his weekends.

Truth be told Mr. Dain Aeducan had a few to many hats he was wearing...

[beckaliz]

Evilnor wrote...

I think one of the things I like best about DA2 is that it doesn't follow the classic hero's journey to the letter. Yes, Hawke has a decisive victory over an undeniable evil (Arishok) but the story doesn't end there. Once Hawke is the hero, what happens then? The story doesn't end in a decisive victory or "happily ever after." The closest we get to that is "everyone left, except for <love interest>." The world goes on. Heck, even the idea that Hawke's actions are leading to something better or worse are completely up in the air. The whole story doesn't end, but the main character's time as a central player does, with no passing of the baton. I think it's that ambiguity and realism that contribute to me liking this game so much.

Oh, and while the story may treat Anders as possibly the most important character in the game, I'm sure players would have complained about railroading, had they been forced to control him as the main character. I'd love to read his story as a book, though. Enter fanfiction! I'd say new David Gaider book, but too many of the neat details are wrapped up in actual playable game that he'd get yelled at for writing as canon.

I'm in the same boat. I like to write so much, and have written gobs and gobs of stuff that is unpublishable simply because it was all the ongoing lives of my characters interacting with the characters of somebody else. You can't just publish something that goes on and on with no overreaching plot arc. I love that DA2 is very much about the characters. No you can't change a whole lot of the things that happen, but I've always loved throwing uncontrollable situations at my characters and just watching them react. (My personal characters are "alive" in my head, and I couldn't write them OOC if I even tried. They live through me.) In a lot of ways, the character interactions in DA2 remind me of that roleplay writing. I'm in control of one half of the equation.

In DA2, I am not in control of the outside circumstances to which my!Hawke must respond, but they are nonetheless there, and for whatever it's worth I like them. I like the angst and horror of what happens to Leandra. I like the Arishok arc. And I like the "oh my god what the hell did you do GODDAMMIT ANDERS". I've had a couple "oh crap" moments in my own writing... In a moment of inspiration I gave a character pancreatic cancer. @_@ Not knowing at the time how serious it was. (Fortunately it was a sci-fi setting and after rounds of chemo, other toxic medications, and medical nano-technology he was mainly ok.) But I couldn't take it back. It was going to happen, and what makes it interesting is how the characters react. There's a certain drama to the helplessness that you have in the game that really appeals to me.

I also like Anders' desperation leading to his drastic action. I mean, I've said before that I'd do the same in his shoes, but it's not because I agree with him and think that it's a good action to take to further the mage cause. I just know that, given the circumstances, I'd likely lose it and wanna fxck stuff up too if I was put there.

A lot of people don't like feeling helpless, which is obvious by all the flaming that BioWare has taken because of the game. But it's so real for it to be that way. As highcastle says, gamers are used to having a clear way to "win". For my personal flavor, I like "coping" just as well, if not better. There's an angst to it, and the promise of future struggles to endure. Like more angst on the horizon.  Bring on the angst, baby!

I also like the ambiguity that DA2 tends to show because I am part of the group that likes to fill in the blanks on my own. I'm actually having a hard time on my jackface!Hawke PT because the in-game options make him more helpful in a lot of situations than my headcanon would prefer.

Back to Anders, that particular Hawke is proof that I am not "ohhh, I could never do anything to hurt [character]!" because he's gonna bugger our poor Anders and then kick him to the curb afterwards. Just for sh!ts and giggles on my part. 

Modifié par beckaliz, 09 juillet 2011 - 11:37 .

[legbamel]

I do very much like that you don't "beat the game" in DA2, you simply survive. I do feel like the lack of control makes Hawke engaging in a way that the Wardens were not because who can't relate to being in a situation where all you can do is your best and hope everything works out in the end? It's perhaps not what people expected to role play but I think it was a great direction to go for Bioware. If a lot of people didn't adore the game they certainly have talked about it a great deal.