57020 réponses à ce sujet

[ipgd]

berelinde wrote...

I realize that this post will be ignored, but I must ask. What is that clip? That creeper that comes in from the left reminds me disturbingly of my Sig O's foster son. (Who is actually an honorable, upstanding person who merely looks scary, sometimes.)

It's Aidan Gillen on Game of Thrones.

[highcastle]

berelinde wrote...

TeenZombie wrote...
But yes, if my Hawke had gotten that tearful conversation where Anders talked about Karl, she would have been all:

I realize that this post will be ignored, but I must ask. What is that clip? That creeper that comes in from the left reminds me disturbingly of my Sig O's foster son. (Who is actually an honorable, upstanding person who merely looks scary, sometimes.)

It's Game of Thrones. The leering guy is Littlefinger, and he's just as creepy in the books as this clip suggests.

ETA:

Modifié par highcastle, 10 juillet 2011 - 04:51 .

[berelinde]

ipgd wrote...

berelinde wrote...

I realize that this post will be ignored, but I must ask. What is that clip? That creeper that comes in from the left reminds me disturbingly of my Sig O's foster son. (Who is actually an honorable, upstanding person who merely looks scary, sometimes.)

It's Aidan Gillen on Game of Thrones.

Oh, thank goodness. S.O.F.S. does theater, so anything is possible, but it would have been upsetting to think that he had done a costume piece and not told anyone about it.

[beckaliz]

*cough*



ETA:

... this is NSFW... It's XD;; hilarious. Has Anders in it at least. whoops!

Modifié par beckaliz, 10 juillet 2011 - 05:23 .

[ipgd]

highcastle wrote...

It's Game of Thrones. The leering guy is Littlefinger, and he's just as creepy in the books as this clip suggests.

ETA:

Hey now, leering at 11 year old girls isn't creepy at all.

[Soapbubbles]

beckaliz wrote...



*cough*

Where did you get that screen of Anders' face?  His mouth is just... D:

[beckaliz]

Soapbubbles wrote...

beckaliz wrote...



*cough*

Where did you get that screen of Anders' face?  His mouth is just... D:

Hur hur hur. x3 It's from the Fenris/Denarius scene.
Your sister's a mage? You bloody hypocrite. You really are just jealous!

[ademska]

ooh ooh i have another excuse to use this

[legbamel]

beckaliz wrote...
[snip of pre-vomit Anders]
ETA:

... this is NSFW... It's XD;; hilarious. Has Anders in it at least. whoops!

[screams] So wrong...so hysterical...[dies]

[River5]

beckaliz wrote...

My brother's gay. And most of my good friends have "non-standard" sexual identities. Granted, most of my good friends are also furries... so they have identity issues period...

It's just one more of those things that I think, why is it so hard for people to accept a person/character for the way they are? Saying you prefer to think of a character as straight, as in "I would rather think he'd never slept with any guys at all", is not the same as "I think of him as straight, but I know he's been with guys in the past, he just prefers women now".

Then there's headcanon. If someone wants to headcanon that Anders is 100% vanilla with a female Hawke, fine, whatever. But this doesn't give them the right to be cranky about the writers telling us that Anders is bi... Because he's their character, and they're just revealing a little more about him to us. Don't people want to learn more? ;;; It's not fair to Anders' writers or to Anders himself to change who he is to suit a personal preference.

However. Another thing to consider is that a lot of people do not have the same felicity of speech that some of the regulars on this thread do. They won't necessarily be able to properly articulate their thoughts and opinions on such a matter. Someone might make an off-hand comment which, unbeknownst to them, hits a nerve. And, from my perspective, I see a lot of issues that come out of things that I consider to be purely a matter of semantics.

Damn I hate semantics. There's so much subtlety to speech that people just don't get. Like the difference between the words "excuse" and "reason". *twitch* It makes it that much harder to communicate online with just the written word to try and fill in the void left by the absence of nonverbal communication.

As far as I'm concerned, Anders is a "1" on Kinsey's scale!    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinsey_scale  Or he might as well be a "5". 

Okay, more seriously, generally speaking, I see sexual orientation or even identity as something that can evolve during the course of a person's life.

This is not true for everyone (some men or women that are straight or predominently straight will always feel attracted to the opposite sex, and vice versa).  But many people, over the course of their lives, may experience certain shifts (some being more subtle than others) in their sexual preferences.

And I believe it is entirely up to them how they should choose to identify.

Personally, it's much more easier for me to tell people that I'm straight when people ask (especially if they're strangers or acquaintances)...  Than go:

"Oh!  I'm predominently straight...  However, I have the natural tendency to "emotionally fall in love" in equal measure with both sexes.  However, even having romantic feelings for one person may not be enough, as that doesn't immediately ensure that I will feel physically attracted towards that person.

Traditionally speaking, it's easier for me to feel attracted to men, and relate to them.  Both physically and emotionally.  In the past, I have met a few women that I have felt sexually attracted to.  However, I wasn't drawn to them on an emotional, intimate level, so that ended up going nowhere (as I am unable to feel comfortable with having sex unless I feel a strong emotional attachment towards the person also).  And, the even fewer ones that I would have been open to building a relationship with, were not interested in women as sexual partners either.

So, the fact that I've almost always ended up with men may have had more to do with statistical probabilities than anything else (too many variables in order to make a same sex relationship occur as often).

Actually, there has been only one woman that I have ever been sexually intimate with, and still am occasionally (with my partner's blessings...  And limited participation...  ).  She's been my best friend for over a decade, but it's only recently that we've started to explore that dimension of our relationship.

I do not consider her as being my "true love", or even someone I would wish to build a life, or start a family with.  But she is my dearest friend, my confidante, my "partner in crime", someone that I cherish and that I am incredibly happy to have in my life.  I would trust her with anything, and thus, that level of trust and emotional intimacy between us has made us comfortable in going as far as sharing our bodies, and even our significant others (up to a certain point) with each other.

Though, if her boyfriend (she is single right now) or my boyfriend ever felt uncomfortable with that (she is "mostly straight" also, and I'm the only woman that she has ever had any form of sexual contact with), we would be able to go back to a more "platonic" friendship without suffering from it."

Yeah, so...  Does that make me "straight", "bisexual", "bi-curious", "pansexual", or what?  Lol!

Modifié par River5, 10 juillet 2011 - 06:38 .

[beckaliz]

River5 wrote...

A lot of stuff!

See, that's the thing. Labels are terrible! Which is why putting a label on Anders is silly, because it's the label that people have a problem with. They completely miss any complexity to Anders as just a person who has been intimate with other people in the past. That's all he is. Why should anything beyond that matter? It matters if you're playing m!Hawke and would like to pursue a relationship with him, obviously. And there Anders is, tentatively approaching Hawke with his overtures of attraction. He doesn't give himself a label, he just says he's open to such things. And he's sweet and trusting and--and! Oh me oh my. I'm having a moment.



@ademska: Hehehehe. >:3

Modifié par beckaliz, 10 juillet 2011 - 07:15 .

[beckaliz]

More Lonely Island goodness.

Fenris doodle from PayRoo's hilarious video.

Edit: I should really get off my arse and do something else. I've been too lazy to even go get my stupid tablet to make these edits easier. Hahaha.

Modifié par beckaliz, 10 juillet 2011 - 07:49 .

[River5]

OMG!  What is this?!?!?!?  I don't even... 

He's coding!  Get me a box of kittens STAT! 

www.youtube.com/watch

If only it were ever that simple!  Lol!

[River5]

beckaliz wrote...

See, that's the thing. Labels are terrible! Which is why putting a label on Anders is silly, because it's the label that people have a problem with. They completely miss any complexity to Anders as just a person who has been intimate with other people in the past. That's all he is. Why should anything beyond that matter? It matters if you're playing m!Hawke and would like to pursue a relationship with him, obviously. And there Anders is, tentatively approaching Hawke with his overtures of attraction. He doesn't give himself a label, he just says he's open to such things. And he's sweet and trusting and--and! Oh me oh my. I'm having a moment.

Labels are terrible, frustrating, and especially limiting.  Why not simply go with what our mind, heart, and/or body is telling us; instead of wondering if feeling romantically / sexually attracted for this or that person fits with our sexual orientation / identity, or even social conventions?

In Anders' case, I don't see the fact that he didn't talk about Karl having been his lover from the get-go with a female Hawke as him denying (or even negating) that it ever happened.  Perhaps he even tells her about it later on, as their relationship progresses, and a greater level of trust is established between them.

It's just that it probably didn't seem that relevant to him at that particular moment.

Whereas with a male Hawke, he's using it as an opportunity to see if Hawke shares the same oppeness towards same gender relationships as he does.  Kind of like testing the waters before taking a plunge.

Obviously, asking a female Hawke "So, what's your opinion about two guys getting it on with each other?", while she may have found it hot, wouldn't quite help him get the point across that he might feel attracted to her.

Which makes me realize that he cared a lot more about trying to learn if Hawke could ever become interested in him, than being comforted by him/her about the loss of his old friend and lover.  Makes me feel a little bit less guilty about inappropriately flirting with him right after that "Tranquility" quest.  Obviously, he was ready and eager to move on too!  Lol!

Reminds me of this...



by enchantedtiki on DA enchantedtiki.deviantart.com/

[Amondra]

beckaliz wrote...


More Lonely Island goodness.

Fenris doodle from PayRoo's hilarious video.

Edit: I should really get off my arse and do something else. I've been too lazy to even go get my stupid tablet to make these edits easier. Hahaha.

This made my afternoon.  I love the group and Anders...I mean it's just lovely  However their song Creeper, makes me think of Anders lol.

[beckaliz]

River5 wrote...

Obviously, asking a female Hawke "So, what's your opinion about two guys getting it on with each other?", while she may have found it hot, wouldn't quite help him get the point across that he might feel attracted to her.

HAHAHAHAHA. XD

[Toastyblue2]

This one just showed up on my +watch list. Freaking hillarious.



By Farkye. Someone needs to tweet this to Howden. Yes?

Modifié par Toastyblue2, 10 juillet 2011 - 08:32 .

[Amondra]

Toastyblue2 wrote...

This one just showed up on my +watch list. Freaking hillarious.



By Farkye. Someone needs to tweet this to Howden. Yes?

Damn hipster Anders LOL.  Also I thought of the Beetles when I saw this >_> I think the weather out in Wexford is getting to me 

[berelinde]

River5 wrote...

<snipped a bit too much but not going back to get it again>
Which makes me realize that he cared a lot more about trying to learn if Hawke could ever become interested in him, than being comforted by him/her about the loss of his old friend and lover.  Makes me feel a little bit less guilty about inappropriately flirting with him right after that "Tranquility" quest.  Obviously, he was ready and eager to move on too!  Lol!

Reminds me of this...
<funny comic snipped>

The snipped portion contains what might well be the best explanation I have heard to date about why Anders doesn't tell F!Hawke about Karl. I probably shouldn't have snipped it, but I don't want to go back and reload the page to include it.

As for the part I did leave, Anders tells you that and Karl are no longer lovers himself. His exact words are "We hadn't been together for a long time, but still, it hurt."

[TotoroTori]

TeenZombie wrote...

TotoroTori wrote...

ipgd wrote...

And another quote for the ANDERS NEVER SLEPT WITH KARL BECAUSE HE DOESN'T MENTION IT TO FEMALE HAWKE ****fests:

"No matter who the player is, Karl was always someone [Anders] was romantically involved with," says Gaider. "The part of him the player is exposed to, however, is different. Anders doesn't mention Karl to a female Hawke because Jennifer Hepler [Anders' writer] didn't think he would -- and also because a player who prefers to think of Anders as straight is welcome to do so."

Why does that actually kinda seem a little sexy?

Even though I only romance him with a female character, I do find the idea of bisexual Anders sexy.  I do wish that there was a conversation with FemHawke about his relationship with Karl, even if it were in a later Act, but I understand why they left it out.

I do too (I have a friend who likes to keep Anders straight) but I do love reading about him retelling his romance in his head with Karl in fanfics, people do an amazing job.
 I uh also like to imagine Anders having a thing for Nathaniel or maybe kiss him and all

[CulturalGeekGirl]

I find it funny that, as someone who loves Fenders and... Anderstair? I'm arguing in favor of not always assuming Anders is completely bisexual. But here I am.

The thing is, I have frequently seen people who DO have the reasonable middle-ground opinions in the bisexuality arguments... probably because I'm actively looking for them. I've seen dozens of girls (and yes, it seems like it's usually girls) who are trying to be open-minded while also trying to codify their own opinions get positively flayed alive there.

I've also never had a girl who I pegged as open-minded reject my "Ok, so do you see him as primarily interested in women despite Karl? Basically, rounds up to straight?" suggestion. It's a nice compromise and everybody keeps their skin. The problem is I've never seen it brought up except by me... it's always "If you do not admit he is bisexual you are an ignorant homophobe!" When I'm in the bisexuality threads (which I probably ever won't be again, for exactly this reason) the people on both extreme sides often attack mercilessly anyone who doesn't agree with them 100%, without bothering to err on the side of interpreting posts by new posters generously. It's what I call the "angry letters from both sides" phenomenon, and it almost got me to quit the Bioware boards a while ago.

The problem is that by haranguing the girls who are fine with the idea of bisexuality but think of their own Anders as straight, you're pushing the people who are most likely to develop nuanced views out of the debate. I've found it's very easy to educate them about flexible sexualities, and have them accept that explanation. A compromise where they acknowledge Karl but can still reconcile it with the perception of Anders' sexuality they developed in Awakening is the ideal solution, for me. And who knows, maybe three years from now they'll be more comfortable with the idea in general.

If you go up to a girl who prefers to think of her own Anders as straight, and pat her gently on the shoulder and say "Sure, he can have slept with Karl and still identify as straight" you may have helped her take her first baby step toward having a nuanced view on sexuality. I've never seen the "your interpretation is a stupid stretch that obviously belies your underlying homophobia" approach help anyone at all.

ademska wrote...

i basically feel like gaider's statement:

and also because a player who prefers to think of Anders as straight is welcome to do so

is followed with a silent, "but they'd be wrong," or at the very least, "but this is a willful interpretation and bid at ignorance for the sake of roleplay". feel free to correct me, mr. gaider.

perhaps it makes me pigheaded, and i'm not condoning jumping down the throat of that one girl you mentioned, but i have great difficulty seeing any real reason for diminishing the impact of anders' sexuality statement that isn't threaded in unfortunate implications. your posited explanation of anders forgoing sex with men after his escape, and then, if hawke is female, simply not falling back into that view of sexuality is totally fine on its own, but anyone who wants to rationalize anders as straight in the first place is incredibly suspect.

what real reason can you have for that, honestly? you can't just will away aspects of a character because you don't like them or find them inconsistent, and either of those reasons is... well, just awful

I don't see that implied "but they'd be wrong" coda to Gaider's statement. I'm very uncomfortable saying "but this is what he obviously meant." I think he meant exactly what he said, no more, no less. I think his words were probably chosen very carefully, so as NOT to explicitly state that people who think of Anders as straight are wrong.

As for why someone might prefer not to think of someone as bisexual, but rather "straight with an exception" or "rounds up to straight," well, scientifically-speaking, bisexuality is a complicated and controversial topic. Let's just say there's a lot of interesting research on it that I am not going to discuss with a ten foot lecturn. At this point I've just decided to handwave and say "sexuality may work differently on a fundamental level in Thedas," to avoid having to discuss the most recent psychological research on bisexuality. Let's just say this: it is very complicated and nobody agrees how it really works, at least in men. (Female bisexuality is slightly more well understood, strangely enough.)

The concept of bisexuality as a set, established, unchangeable sexual identity is one that makes me shrug, and I find it frustrating that it's become a catch-all into which anyone who does not have an utterly black or white sexuality is forced. I've also known far more "rounds up to _____" or "____, with an exception" people than I've known people who strongly identify as bisexual. Most of the bisexuals I know personally have associated themselves with some other sexuality at some point in their life. There's some research that may support this, indicating that many people who classify themselves as bisexual considered themselves gay or straight at another point in their life.

I don't think that Kaidan falling for Shepard necessarily makes him strictly bi, either. I use this argument to counter those who believe that making existing LIs bi in ME is a crazy bad thing. When people argue that liking one member of the same sex makes you gay, I'll explain that having characters be Shepardsexual could mean they were always bi, or it could simply put them in the "____, with an exception" category, which is actually the form of queer sexuality I've encountered most frequently in the real world. In fact, it's acknowledged to the point that it's become a cultural memetic joke.... most dudes have that "one dude I'd sleep with" exception for David Bowie, or George Clooney, or Johnny Depp, or whoever. Why can't Kaidan have it for Shep? Garrus already has his "not Xenosexual, but with an exception" sexuality for Femshep, after all.

Attributing "awful" motivations to everyone with a certain opinion will only divide the lines and diminish understanding. I find the most useful way to have a debate is to assume the LEAST awful possible motivation for whatever the person believes, and leave it up to them to contradict that assumption. Now if someone comes in asking for a "no gay" button, you can definitely assume they're not going to be open-minded. But if it's just some girl who is probably fairly young (and possibly not very educated about the sexual spectrum), who prefers to think of a character in a certain way, being a little generous will help the cause of tolerance in the long run, I think.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 10 juillet 2011 - 09:33 .

[Jean]

Gosh.

[ipgd]

I've read every last one of the 1933 pages in this thread and I think I've only seen what you described happen, what... once? And even then it went on for maybe half a page, and I don't even remember whether she actually responded or not, so it couldn't have been much of an argument.

In the bisexuality threads, I've certainly never seen it. I don't even see very many women at all; the only ones I remember getting in an actual argument with was the one who called people who want s/s options screaming babies and raised some ridiculous strawman about Irish people wanting Shepard to have an Irish accent (???), and some mod who called me "foolish" for assuming Anders, Fenris and Merrill are bisexual based on metagame information. It's almost invariably guys who bring up Anders as an example why gays and bisexuals would DESTROY MASS EFFECT, cry about how Anders used to be a bro but now he's ruined forever thanks to DA2 and its gays, and then they misuse the word retcon and I want to stab out my eyes. Occasionally I'll see posters with female avatars that make one line posts with incredibly bad grammar that I either don't respond to at all or never get a reply back, but certainly never any that express any sort of conception of sexuality vs. sexual indentity.

But I am now realizing I have absolutely no energy for these wall of text fests anymore so I am not even going to bother. IF I HAVEN'T CONVEYED MYSELF COHERENTLY BY NOW I'LL JUST HAVE TO SETTLE FOR BEING MISUNDERSTOOD

Modifié par ipgd, 10 juillet 2011 - 09:32 .

[Sabyarr]

Hei hei

I did a DA2-Fanart too...
Anders is so ****ing awesome! X3
eisblumen.deviantart.com/#/d3lgyai

Cheeeers~

Modifié par Sabyarr, 10 juillet 2011 - 09:34 .