57020 réponses à ce sujet

[Amondra]

Sabyarr wrote...

Hei hei

I did a DA2-Fanart too...
Anders is so ****ing awesome! X3
eisblumen.deviantart.com/#/d3lgyai

Cheeeers~

Tranquil Anders really breaks my heat.  though I am in the boat that with Justice physically in him he can't be made tranquil.

Since I got top I will share my awesome commission done by pyromaniac03 at DA for my fanfic I loves it soo!

Modifié par Amondra, 10 juillet 2011 - 09:57 .

[beckaliz]

Toastyblue2 wrote...

This one just showed up on my +watch list. Freaking hillarious.

**SNIP HIPPY ANDERS**

By Farkye. Someone needs to tweet this to Howden. Yes?

He seemed to like it. 

Modifié par beckaliz, 10 juillet 2011 - 10:10 .

[Toastyblue2]

beckaliz wrote...

Toastyblue2 wrote...

This one just showed up on my +watch list. Freaking hillarious.

**SNIP HIPPY ANDERS**

By Farkye. Someone needs to tweet this to Howden. Yes?

He seemed to like it. 

Ha! Awesome!

[TotoroTori]

Sabyarr wrote...

Hei hei

I did a DA2-Fanart too...
Anders is so ****ing awesome! X3
eisblumen.deviantart.com/#/d3lgyai

Cheeeers~

:crying: awww its so sad but I love the coloring you did to it!

[CulturalGeekGirl]

ipgd wrote...
I've read every last one of the 1933 pages in this thread and I think I've only seen what you described happen, what... once? And even then it went on for maybe half a page, and I don't even remember whether she actually responded or not, so it couldn't have been much of an argument.

In the bisexuality threads, I've certainly never seen it. I don't even see very many women at all; the only ones I remember getting in an actual argument with was the one who called people who want s/s options screaming babies and raised some ridiculous strawman about Irish people wanting Shepard to have an Irish accent (???), and some mod who called me "foolish" for assuming Anders, Fenris and Merrill are bisexual based on metagame information. It's almost invariably guys who bring up Anders as an example why gays and bisexuals would DESTROY MASS EFFECT, cry about how Anders used to be a bro but now he's ruined forever thanks to DA2 and its gays, and then they misuse the word retcon and I want to stab out my eyes. Occasionally I'll see posters with female avatars that make one line posts with incredibly bad grammar that I either don't respond to at all or never get a reply back, but certainly never any that express any sort of conception of sexuality vs. sexual indentity.

But I am now realizing I have absolutely no energy for these wall of text fests anymore so I am not even going to bother. IF I HAVEN'T CONVEYED MYSELF COHERENTLY BY NOW I'LL JUST HAVE TO SETTLE FOR BEING MISUNDERSTOOD

It's not a phoenomenon that I've observed often in this thread (I've only been here for a month or so, after all), but I've seen it all over the place: in several of the threads that got locked down after the ME3 announcement, and in individual Mass Effect character threads. It's happened in pretty much every single individual character thread at some point.

Actually, where I've seen it occur the most is when someone from one of the bisexuality threads who doesn't normally post in a character thread comes in and picks a fight. I saw that happen on both the Garrus and Kaidan threads at the time. When it happened in the Garrus thread, that was the only time I've seen it resolved peacefully for almost everyone involved... but Garrus fans are special. If you want me to point it out the next time it happens I definitely will, if only to prove I'm not crazy. And I'm not claiming that these girls show up and post nuanced essays on sexual identity (though I can guarantee that I did exactly that on several occasions in over a dozen different threads, mostly ME ones but some DA ones.) I'm saying that they show up and post something like "I tend to think of X as straight" and get reamed for it, when treating them gently would likely encourage them to open up. When I've put forward the nuanced view on individual character threads in the past, I've usually had a decent portion of the girls against making a particular romance available to both genders soften up.

Now, have I seen some gorram crazy arguments? All the ones you describe? Yes I have. I've also seen the argument that anyone who wants to see any sexuaity other than bisexuality represented romantically in any game ever is inherently wrong, evil, and homophobic. Are there generally more jerks on the anti-gay side? Of course there are. Are they generally bat**** insane? Yes. But I've seen people who said "ideally there would be LIs who are canonically gay and ones who are canonically straight" get tarred with the same brush as people who say "I shud hav a buttan to remoove da gayz." I'm just saying save your tar for the people who deserve it.

I'm not trying to misunderstand, and I'm not trying to minimize or excuse the actual terrible arguments. But about 10-20% of the arguments I've seen aren't terrible. They're innocent statements by people who are inherently teach-able. When some sweet girl who I've been having nuanced conversations with for months says hesistantly that she prefers to think of Kaidan as straight, I know she's not malicious, because I know her already. I've seen her join with me in advocating a 100% gay nigel fishnchips. I've seen her fully support my theoretical bisexual turian vanguard chick. I know she made a male character to romance Tali. And because I've bothered to get to know her as a person, I know that she's one of those people who prefers if different canon LIs have different sexualities across the spectrum, which I don't think is an inherently homophobic opinion.

Now, where I go on from there is that I give the benefit of the doubt to anyone who enters the conversation without saying something inherently crazy. This benefit of the doubt doesn't extent to people who say "X will destroy Y," or who say "Everyone who wants X is a whiner." But I've seen the nuanced opinions. I've talked with these people. I've acutally gotten someone to change their opinion about any of the historically straight LIs turning out to be bisexual. I've also gotten someone to acknowledge that having diverse characters who represent every sexuality on the spectrum was just as good as having everyone be bisexual.

What I'm saying is this: the next time you read a post in a controversial thread, try to read it as charitably as possible. If it's not possible to read it charitably, fair enough. But if it's something fairly neutral, like "I personally prefer to think of X as straight," try suggesting a more nuanced view of sexuality as an olive brannch, and see if it gets better results.

[ipgd]

ALL RIGHT TIME TO CHANNEL RYZAKI

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

I'm just saying save your tar for the people who deserve it.

And what I'm saying is that I've never even seen that and as such have never even had an opportunity to tar such people in the first place. Yours is the first post I've seen regarding Anders that actually even raises the issue of sexual indentity possibly not mired in a context of Unfortunate Implications (or returned to defend a viewpoint in a way that didn't immediately make it patently obvious it was founded on Unfortunate Implications), and while I don't buy into that notion in Anders's particular case, I certainly wasn't shouting down you or anyone who might think that as a noxious homophobe, was I?

Basically, I was complaining about issues pretty distinct from the particular one you raised. And attempting to side-step it after you raised it, because it didn't really have much to do with the actual viewpoints I took issue with, or why I brought up that quote.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

I'm afraid we're talking in circles now, but I'm trying desperately to actually explain, to simplify my explanation without coming off as a jerk.

I understand that you're complaining about different issues. The thing is, nobody in this thread has made any statements even resembling the things you're complaining about for months and months, whereas within the time I've been here someone innocent has been criticized for making an innocent statement here. So I'm obviously more attuned to that phenomenon in regards to this particular thread.

Moreover, I'm suggesting that if YOU offer up the compromise of an alternate conception of sexuality, you might be surprised when the person in question agrees. I don't think it'll happen most of the time. I doubt it'll even happen 30% of the time. But if you're willing to propose a compromise, you might be surprised how many people you previously thought were rabidly unreasonable say "Hmm, I never thought of it like THAT. Now that makes sense."

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 10 juillet 2011 - 11:40 .

[ipgd]

I understand what you are talking about. I have just... never seen it, never done it, am not responsible for other people getting snippy one time in this thread, and I don't treat people like **** about it when they don't demonstrate clearly irredeemable ideologies. So, given the fact it was never what I was referring to, doesn't really apply to me personally, and I really don't feel like writing agonized walls of text anymore, I am attempting to extract myself from the argument.

Modifié par ipgd, 10 juillet 2011 - 11:49 .

[CulturalGeekGirl]

And I wasn't directing my posts at you in particular (except in cases when you were replying to me specifically).

I just sensed that people in this thread were quite gleeful at the possibility that that specific quote could, in the future, be used as conclusive proof that their specific conception of Anders' bisexuality was correct, and I wished to encourage people in general to consider not using it in that particular way, wherever or whenever they may choose to cite it in the future.

I sincerely apologize for any confusion. I don't like arguments like this, but it's also hard for me to step away if I feel I may be miscommunicating.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 10 juillet 2011 - 11:59 .

[ipgd]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

I just sensed that people in this thread were quite gleeful at the possibility that that specific quote could, in the future, be used as conclusive proof that their specific conception of Anders' bisexuality was correct, and I wished to encourage people in general to consider not using it in that particular way, wherever or whenever they may choose to cite it in the future.

It was only really in response to the people who insist Anders's relationship with Karl never actually happened if Hawke is female. That was all I ever meant to bring up.

[xRiseAboveThis]

Just came across this in the Alistair Fan Club on Facebook and thought I'd share it here:

David Garrett (some famous violinst), looks just like a real-life Anders. It's kind of awesome.

[xRiseAboveThis]

Edit; double post, oops. >_>

Modifié par xRiseAboveThis, 11 juillet 2011 - 04:38 .

[CulturalGeekGirl]

xRiseAboveThis wrote...

Just came across this in the Alistair Fan Club on Facebook and thought I'd share it here:

David Garrett (some famous violinst), looks just like a real-life Anders. It's kind of awesome.

Gaaaah. Adorable

This calls for some Anderistair.

[ademska]

heeeee his name is garrett

[beckaliz]

Heeheehee. XD Drunk Alistair is drunk.

Just found this:


source

Time for bed for me.

Modifié par beckaliz, 11 juillet 2011 - 04:56 .

[berelinde]

xRiseAboveThis wrote...

Just came across this in the Alistair Fan Club on Facebook and thought I'd share it here:

David Garrett (some famous violinst), looks just like a real-life Anders. It's kind of awesome.

I'll just be over here. Drooling. Don't mind me.

[Patriciachr34]

Just finishing up my Act 3 and took this pretty cool screen shot of Anders. I thought y'all would like this.


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[Soapbubbles]

xRiseAboveThis wrote...

Just came across this in the Alistair Fan Club on Facebook and thought I'd share it here:

David Garrett (some famous violinst), looks just like a real-life Anders. It's kind of awesome.

For some reason it's the eyebrows that make the resemblance for me.  I don't even know why.

[BlueMew]

But I've seen people who said "ideally there would be LIs who are canonically gay and ones who are canonically straight" get tarred with the same brush as people who say "I shud hav a buttan to remoove da gayz." I'm just saying save your tar for the people who deserve it.

Well, I've never tarred, feathered or done anything else creative to either of those groups, but I have opposed both of them. I do hope that's allowed. Because I'm a practical person, and I think that making every option available allows for every possible interpretation ("I think X is straight." "Well, mine is bi" etc.), which is good. While canonically gay or straight just restricts players and adds the complication of having to mod it out, which would be a waste of everyone's time. I've been accused of opposing realism (which is true, it's why I play games and read books) or oppressing imaginary characters' imaginary sexuality for this, but since they're, you know, imaginary, that doesn't really bother me.

Btw, I'm not really interested in starting a whole new discussion on this, I'm pretty much done with that. It was just an example to show that I think it should be possible to properly disagree with people who are not, well, idiots without treating them the same way as said idiots.

[FieryDove]

xRiseAboveThis wrote...

Just came across this in the Alistair Fan Club on Facebook and thought I'd share it here:

David Garrett (some famous violinst), looks just like a real-life Anders. It's kind of awesome.

Wow...amazing resemblence.

We need more Anders happy dance in this thread.



We can't make Anders dance in DA2 can we?

We need more kitta too...sigh I'm all out.

[beckaliz]

FieryDove wrote...

We need more Anders happy dance in this thread.



We can't make Anders dance in DA2 can we?

We need more kitta too...sigh I'm all out.

I saw that video a few days ago when I was putzing around YouTube's "suggestions" after watching something else. I think it's both sexy and adorable.

You know, there are some animations in DAO that I think have a more natural flow to them than those in DA2. I suspect they used real people and put those special electric sensors on them. (Especially Anders's little "blow on hands then shake them out" motion.) That kind of thing makes the most lovely animations. <3

[ipgd]

They do mocap for pretty much every animation set.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

BlueMew wrote...

But I've seen people who said "ideally there would be LIs who are canonically gay and ones who are canonically straight" get tarred with the same brush as people who say "I shud hav a buttan to remoove da gayz." I'm just saying save your tar for the people who deserve it.

Well, I've never tarred, feathered or done anything else creative to either of those groups, but I have opposed both of them. I do hope that's allowed. Because I'm a practical person, and I think that making every option available allows for every possible interpretation ("I think X is straight." "Well, mine is bi" etc.), which is good. While canonically gay or straight just restricts players and adds the complication of having to mod it out, which would be a waste of everyone's time. I've been accused of opposing realism (which is true, it's why I play games and read books) or oppressing imaginary characters' imaginary sexuality for this, but since they're, you know, imaginary, that doesn't really bother me.

Btw, I'm not really interested in starting a whole new discussion on this, I'm pretty much done with that. It was just an example to show that I think it should be possible to properly disagree with people who are not, well, idiots without treating them the same way as said idiots.

Mmm. I agree.

I don't want to get into the whole debate again, because the chief problem here is that there is no solution that makes everyone happy, and there isn't even a solution that is inherently more "just" or whatever. (I mean we're in the Anders thread, so Justice is the virtue we're meant to be pursuing here, right?) If you make every interpretation possible, then there are those who will argue that choosing to interpret someone who is available as a romance to both genders as straight is proof of something dastardly. There will be fights about what the canonical orientation is, and fistfights over something being ooc and still nobody's happy (of course my preferred option is to give characters canonical orientations throughout the spectrum but to present a built-in way to for all genders to access those romances without resorting to modding.) 

I think representing sexualities realistically in literature is important; the question is, can and should video game relationships be held up to the same standards as novels or other forms of storytelling? Over a decade later, say the words "Sailor Moon," and what is the first thing I think of? Haruka and Michiru, the f/f relationship. Haruka was a realistically written lesbian, and Michiru a realistically written bisexual. As a young teen, these characters were the first time I connected with characters of a different sexual identity. Michiru is still my favorite sailor scout, and one of the anime characters I identify with most. Strangely, two minor characters in a kids anime did more to help me understand variations in the spectrum of human sexuality than any amount of sex education or psych reading had prior to encountering them. My views have expanded since then, of course, but encountering interesting, realistically portrayed characters helped a lot.

The question at the center is this: is it more important to grant unrestrained gameplay freedom or to create characters who have realistic sexualities throughout the spectrum? I think that both goals are equally important, and that there must be ways to achieve them simultaneously. The problem is that few people seem to be very interested in finding such a solution.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 11 juillet 2011 - 02:44 .

[beckaliz]

ipgd wrote...

They do mocap for pretty much every animation set.

Oh, ok. I wonder what I'm seeing then. o_o Huh. Oh well. Don't mind me. 

[Mekarah]

Erm...not to inject ridiculousness into the middle of the srs bsnss argument, but I got the new Lonely Island CD this weekend and this was in it and I immediately thought of y'all (and forgiveness if it's already been posted):



Also, I'm waiting extraordinarilly impatiently for CS5 to be installed on my work PC, otherwise I'd totally Anders-cize this.

Modifié par Mekarah, 11 juillet 2011 - 02:50 .