57020 réponses à ce sujet

[CulturalGeekGirl]

I used to feel similarly about Sebastian, however this fic that features both him and Anders heavily (not in a romantic pairing, but as dramtic foils and sympathetic characters) has completely turned me around on him. I know the story is not going to end well at all, but... so pretty. So sad.

Sketchdump from the author:


For once a fortuitous top!

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 11 juillet 2011 - 04:33 .

[Mekarah]

YamiSnuffles wrote...

<it pains me to snip this hilarity>

HA THANK YOU. You have done what I could not. One day, though...they'll install it one day, I just know, then I can join you in creating delicious, delicious crack.

[River5]

beckaliz wrote...

River5 wrote...

Now, watch this...

While trying to imagine how Anders would have been like if he had been allowed to express himself through his magic, as freely as David is allowed to express himself through his music...

"Creative forces of nature, coming up!" 

www.youtube.com/watch

I love how his hair is blowing loose over his forehead. Such passion! I can picture Anders doing this.

Except Hawke says he's terrible at the lute.... hmm. Maybe I don't want to see him doing that.

That's only because there's no fiddlestick lying around...    Anders is always more comfortable with some sort of stick in his hands. 

[ipgd]

I think I would have a butt devastated rage aneurysm if you could actually change characters' sexualities with a toggle. It bothers me enough that they deliberately left their sexualities in DA2 open for interpretation, and I really don't think there is any way to get around the Unfortunate Implications of any sort of toggle that directly changes the characterization of a character, whether it's for a "demographically representational" statistical spread of orientations or to allow for people who are uncomfortable with too many bisexuals to avoid it.

I'm just really not so concerned with statistics that a button that does anything to alter a character's sexuality in any way approaches anything even resembling acceptable to my mind. I would really rather they just not make them all bisexual than do anything like that.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

ipgd wrote...

I think I would have a butt devastated rage aneurysm if you could actually change characters' sexualities with a toggle. It bothers me enough that they deliberately left their sexualities in DA2 open for interpretation, and I really don't think there is any way to get around the Unfortunate Implications of any sort of toggle that directly changes the characterization of a character, whether it's for a "demographically representational" statistical spread of orientations or to allow for people who are uncomfortable with too many bisexuals to avoid it.

I'm just really not so concerned with statistics that a button that does anything to alter a character's sexuality in any way approaches anything even resembling acceptable to my mind. I would really rather they just not make them all bisexual than do anything like that.

What if you called it fanfic mode?

I mean, in fanfiction Alistair can be gay, and I'm fine with it. I don't consider it disrespectful to his orientation... because it's fanfiction. And in my mind that's what the ability to do all the romances without mods would be... basically authorized mods and permission to change things in your headcanon, with the acknowledgement that an actual canon exists. It's not a toggle to change sexuality, it's a toggle to write fanfic.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 11 juillet 2011 - 04:40 .

[YamiSnuffles]

Mekarah wrote...

YamiSnuffles wrote...

<it pains me to snip this hilarity>

HA THANK YOU. You have done what I could not. One day, though...they'll install it one day, I just know, then I can join you in creating delicious, delicious crack.

The more the crackier? Although, that statement is unintentionally funnier to me in the context of butts.

[Mekarah]

ipgd wrote...

I think I would have a butt devastated rage aneurysm if you could actually change characters' sexualities with a toggle. It bothers me enough that they deliberately left their sexualities in DA2 open for interpretation, and I really don't think there is any way to get around the Unfortunate Implications of any sort of toggle that directly changes the characterization of a character, whether it's for a "demographically representational" statistical spread of orientations or to allow for people who are uncomfortable with too many bisexuals to avoid it.

I'm just really not so concerned with statistics that a button that does anything to alter a character's sexuality in any way approaches anything even resembling acceptable to my mind. I would really rather they just not make them all bisexual than do anything like that.

I think (and correct me if I'm wrong, reading at work so sometimes I miss things while...er...working), that the toggle was more to determine the player character's sexuality? Say, for example, you hit on Iona, then it would establish that your character is into chicks, and therefore the dude character wouldn't hit on you first? The idea being that it would save people scared of Anders turning them gay the horror and shock of having a dude hit on them.

Not that I necessarily would want to concede to closed minded individuals, or think that the game should, tbh, but I think that was more the idea than say, making Anders straight.

Modifié par Mekarah, 11 juillet 2011 - 04:43 .

[ipgd]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

What if you called it fanfic mode?

I mean, in fanfiction Alistair can be gay, and I'm fine with it. I don't consider it disrespectful to his orientation... because it's fanfiction. And in my mind that's what the ability to do all the romances without mods would be... basically authorized mods and permission to change things in your headcanon, with the acknowledgement that an actual canon exists. It's not a toggle to change sexuality, it's a toggle to write fanfic.

I don't like fanfiction or mods that do things like make Alistair gay/bisexual either, but it's something entirely different when it's a AAA game development studio sending a message that implicitly validates the concerns of the people who are bothered by gays or bisexuals or just too many of them so much that need something that removes them from the game, or changes them so it's "more realisitic" or makes them less uncomfortable. I have absolutely zero sympathy for any of those people and I would be appalled if Bioware actually capitulated to their complaints in this way.

[ipgd]

Mekarah wrote...

ipgd wrote...

I think I would have a butt devastated rage aneurysm if you could actually change characters' sexualities with a toggle. It bothers me enough that they deliberately left their sexualities in DA2 open for interpretation, and I really don't think there is any way to get around the Unfortunate Implications of any sort of toggle that directly changes the characterization of a character, whether it's for a "demographically representational" statistical spread of orientations or to allow for people who are uncomfortable with too many bisexuals to avoid it.

I'm just really not so concerned with statistics that a button that does anything to alter a character's sexuality in any way approaches anything even resembling acceptable to my mind. I would really rather they just not make them all bisexual than do anything like that.

I think (and correct me if I'm wrong, reading at work so sometimes I miss things while...er...working), that the toggle was more to determine the player character's sexuality? Say, for example, you hit on Iona, then it would establish that your character is into chicks, and therefore the dude character wouldn't hit on you first? The idea being that it would save people scared of Anders turning them gay the horror and shock of having a dude hit on them.

Not that I necessarily would want to concede to closed minded individuals, or think that the game should, tbh, but I think that was more the idea than say, making Anders straight.

That "toggle" is already in the game, in the form of, you know, not flirting with characters you aren't interested in or turning them down if they flirt first.

All this would do is move the "toggle" to the front of the game so people who are made uncomfortable by the existence of homosexuality never have to deal with it in the first place -- and just, wow, no, those people are the ones who need to move into the 21st century and get over their issues. Bioware shouldn't be going out of their way to accommodate these people.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Mekarah wrote...
I think (and correct me if I'm wrong, reading at work so sometimes I miss things while...er...working), that the toggle was more to determine the player character's sexuality? Say, for example, you hit on Iona, then it would establish that your character is into chicks, and therefore the dude character wouldn't hit on you first? The idea being that it would save people scared of Anders turning them gay the horror and shock of having a dude hit on them.

Not that I necessarily would want to concede to closed minded individuals, or think that the game should, tbh, but I think that was more the idea than say, making Anders straight.

No, I don't support a player sexuality toggle. Blarg, in trying to be diplomatic my meaning is lost.

I support canonical sexualities because I think they are interesting and realistic. However, fanfiction and mods have shown me one thing: players will find a way to do what they want. They wlil find a way to make any character sleep with any other character, whether it be through mods, fanfiction, fanart, whatever you want. So why not give them a mode where their imagination can run wild?

The idea is to have a mode where your male character can sleep with Alistair (or your female character with Morrigan) because you think it's hot. A mode where, like in fanfiction, all bets are off.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

ipgd wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

What if you called it fanfic mode?

I mean, in fanfiction Alistair can be gay, and I'm fine with it. I don't consider it disrespectful to his orientation... because it's fanfiction. And in my mind that's what the ability to do all the romances without mods would be... basically authorized mods and permission to change things in your headcanon, with the acknowledgement that an actual canon exists. It's not a toggle to change sexuality, it's a toggle to write fanfic.

I don't like fanfiction or mods that do things like make Alistair gay/bisexual either, but it's something entirely different when it's a AAA game development studio sending a message that implicitly validates the concerns of the people who are bothered by gays or bisexuals or just too many of them so much that need something that removes them from the game, or changes them so it's "more realisitic" or makes them less uncomfortable. I have absolutely zero sympathy for any of those people and I would be appalled if Bioware actually capitulated to their complaints in this way.

ipgd wrote...
All this would do is move the "toggle" to the front of the game so people who are made uncomfortable by the existence of homosexuality never have to deal with it in the first place -- and just, wow, no, those people are the ones who need to move into the 21st century and get over their issues. Bioware shouldn't be going out of their way to accommodate these people.

You obviously didn't read my original post. I said that this only works if there are canonically gay characters, and I said in a later post that I prefer it if those gay characters ALWAYS flirt with members of the same sex. There is absolutely nothing about my idea that implies removing gay characters from the game, and in every single post I've made about the subject I have said explicitly that this is not and cannot be a 'no gay' button. If you didn't read it in any of my earlier posts, I will say it again here.

Edit: first, the relevant bit quoted from my earlier post: 

In standard mode, characters have an established sexuality (this only works if one or more of the characters are canonically homosexual, otherwise it can feel too much like a 'no gay' button. but at the time
of this discussion, the addition of some form of gay romance into ME was assured. In my theoretical example, Nigel Fishnchips would be canonically gay as would our hypothetical new FemTurian Vanguard)

This is not a no gay button. There should be gay characters in game that express interest in characters of the same gender no matter what 'mode' you are in. Portraying such a toggle as a 'no gay' button even when I have explicitly set down rules that would not make it such is a complete strawman.

This is exactly the problem that always occurs with this argument: any attempt to do anything other than have all characters be canonically bisexual leads to knee jerk assumption that the poster wants to elimiate all gayness, no matter how carefully and explicilty the poster specifies that this is not the case.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 11 juillet 2011 - 04:59 .

[SurelyForth]

It would literally change nothing about how the game plays out as is, except Anders wouldn't hit on M!Hawke if the player indicated he was straight. Heck, he can even do his jealous thing with Merrill and Fenris...but he wouldn't directly engage the player in romantic dialogue without some sort of check indicating he should do so.

If it was integrated the way the dialogue choices-----> dominant personality thing, then the PC's sexuality becomes something that can get roleplayed into the game without taking away from anyone.

(I am someone that prefers to take initiative in the game, though.)

Modifié par SurelyForth, 11 juillet 2011 - 04:55 .

[Mekarah]

ipgd wrote...

That "toggle" is already in the game, in the form of, you know, not flirting with characters you aren't interested in or turning them down if they flirt first.

All this would do is move the "toggle" to the front of the game so people who are made uncomfortable by the existence of homosexuality never have to deal with it in the first place -- and just, wow, no, those people are the ones who need to move into the 21st century and get over their issues. Bioware shouldn't be going out of their way to accommodate these people.

I never said they should (in fact, I explicitly stated they shouldn't). I just thought that was more what they were talking about than making the characters change sexuality. In theory, the idea of choosing a sexuality for a player character doesn't bother me (though I think it's unnecessary, unless they could integrate it into gameplay in an interesting way), but I agree that those are the exact kind of people that don't need pandering to.

Modifié par Mekarah, 11 juillet 2011 - 05:05 .

[ipgd]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

You obviously didn't read my original post.
[...]
This is exactly the problem that always occurs with this argument: any attempt to do anything other than have all characters be canonically bisexual leads to knee jerk assumption that the poster wants to elimiateall gayness, no matter how carefully and explicilty the poster specifies that this is not the case.

I did read your post. I was responding both to that and the other type of "toggle" someone else described, because both of them bother me. Someone else explicitly raised the no-gay toggle. That's why I wasn't quoting you when I was complaining about the gay toggle.

And for the example you raised specifically, the concept of being able to change a character's sexuality at all just bothers me. Because I don't like fanfiction or mods that change characters' sexualities either, and the implications are such that I would really they just leave the modding to the modders than implement it in the base game.

Modifié par ipgd, 11 juillet 2011 - 04:59 .

[CulturalGeekGirl]

ipgd wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

You obviously didn't read my original post.
[...]
This is exactly the problem that always occurs with this argument: any attempt to do anything other than have all characters be canonically bisexual leads to knee jerk assumption that the poster wants to elimiateall gayness, no matter how carefully and explicilty the poster specifies that this is not the case.

I did read your post. I was responding both to that and the other type of "toggle" someone else described, because both of them bother me. Someone else explicitly raised the no-gay toggle. That's why I wasn't quoting you when I was complaining about the gay toggle.

And for the example you raised specifically, the concept of being able to change a character's sexuality at all just bothers me. Because I don't like fanfiction or mods that change characters' sexualities either, and the implications are such that I would really they just leave the modding to the modders than implement it in the base game.

Well since you replied to my post where I was trying to clarify my position with a response suggesting that it would be similar to an AAA game studio condoning a no-gay button, and you never actually acknowledged my clarification or corrected others' misunderstanding of what I was saying, you can see how I would be confused.

This is exactly why it's impossible to ever solve this problem and why everyone will always be angry about it forever.

You get people who want all romances availalbe to all characters and don't want any romanceable characters to ever have a sexuality other than bisexuality.

You get people who want to see all sexualities realistically represented.

You get people who would prefer if all characters were bisexual, but would prefer to remove romance options from other players rather than have the developers condone what is essentially fanfic.

And thus there is no possible compromise that will ever make everyone happy.

Edit: I'm sorry, I'm just frustrated by misunderstandings. This is another quality that I've found endemic to this particular argument: whenever things start to get reasonable, there's a misunderstanding, and a straw man solution that no one actually endorsed becomes the subject of debate. It makes my fingers itch.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 11 juillet 2011 - 05:13 .

[ipgd]

SurelyForth wrote...

It would literally change nothing about how the game plays out as is

Exactly. Which is why I hate the idea, because it does literally nothing but attempt to accomodate people who are made uncomfortable by homosexuality. It's not the implementation, it's the implications.

[Evilnor]

River5 wrote...

Now, watch this...

While trying to imagine how Anders would have been like if he had been allowed to express himself through his magic, as freely as David is allowed to express himself through his music...

"Creative forces of nature, coming up!" 

www.youtube.com/watch

He totally looks like he cuts his hair with that violin.

still: hot. 

[highcastle]

ipgd wrote...

SurelyForth wrote...

It would literally change nothing about how the game plays out as is

Exactly. Which is why I hate the idea, because it does literally nothing but attempt to accomodate people who are made uncomfortable by homosexuality. It's not the implementation, it's the implications.

Agreed whole-heartedly. By implenting any kind of toggle, the devs would be unintentionally saying, "Look, sexuality is something that can be turned on and off." That's really not the kind of implications you want to draw.

Honestly, the rage over the Anders flirt line is ridiculous to me. He literally responds to one line Hawke might choose with a flirtatious comments...for which he immediately apologizes and gives Hawke and out. That is his character. To cut that out with a toggle not only has unfortunate implications about sexual orientation, but also eliminates one of the most intriguing facets of Anders' personality: that no matter who Hawke is or how he treats Anders, Anders always falls in love with him. That type of longing adds depth to his character. And if it makes some players uncomfortable...well perhaps they'll at least take a second to think about why they're uncomfortable.

[River5]

SurelyForth wrote...

It would literally change nothing about how the game plays out as is, except Anders wouldn't hit on M!Hawke if the player indicated he was straight. Heck, he can even do his jealous thing with Merrill and Fenris...but he wouldn't directly engage the player in romantic dialogue without some sort of check indicating he should do so.

If it was integrated the way the dialogue choices-----> dominant personality thing, then the PC's sexuality becomes something that can get roleplayed into the game without taking away from anyone.

(I am someone that prefers to take initiative in the game, though.)

Except I kinda like the fact that Anders will hit on MHawke no matter MHawke's given sexual orientation. 

I've had (male) friends saying that they "don't mind gays", as long as they don't make the "mistake" of hitting on them.  WTF?  And how else are they supposed to know if you're interested, or not?

The stupid answer I often get is "Well!  It should be obvious!"  Huh...  NO.

I've had men hitting on me despite the fact that I would never, EVER be tempted to approach them with a ten feet pole.  And I'm pretty sure that I never sent any of them a specific vibe saying "Hey!  I'm available right now and I might want you!" (or perhaps I accidentally smiled in their general direction, and they took it as a sign).

When that happens, I simply have to overcome any discomfort I may feel, and let them know that I'm not interested.  First, you try to be nice and avoid hurting the guy's feelings...  But sometimes, things can unfortunately become pretty ugly / unpleasant if the guy insists, and just won't let go!

So, why should it be any different for a man being attracted to another man?  The only way to know if the other guy might fancy you is to take a risk, and flirt a bit.

Needless to say I found it pretty refreshing to have Anders manifest his interest towards MHawke so openly, forcing Hawke to turn him down if he's not interested.  It added a nice level of realism to the gameplay.

I was actually overjoyed that the people responsible for DA2 took that risk!  Even more so when refusing Anders' advances makes you gain rivalry points, no matter how nice you are about it.

Of course you're going to get rivalry points!  He's interested in you, and you've just shot down his hopes of anything ever happening between you two.  He will inevitably be disappointed, no matter how much he's willing to respect your decision.

I personally prefer to have the "official" game completely disregard the gamers' own discomfort with Anders openly showing interest towards MHawke; than making efforts to hide Anders' attraction for MHawke should he be straight.  I think that if they had gone down that route, it would have been a major mistake, and would have sent the wrong message (a.k.a. that if you are straight, no gay man will ever come on to you, and you'll forever be free from gay exposure).

Of course, when it comes to mods and fanfictions, all is fair and the gamers are free to get what they want!  But at least, the game itself isn't condoning it.

[ipgd]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Well since you replied to my post where I was trying to clarify my position with a response suggesting that it would be similar to an AAA game studio condoning a no-gay button, and you never actually acknowledged my clarification or corrected others' misunderstanding of what I was saying, you can see how I would be confused.

Well, let me clarify: I think it would send an implicitly unfortunate message about changing characters so they're more personally appealing to you. I dislike it for the same reason I dislike fanfiction that changes Alistair's sexuality, and mods that give Anders stupid hair and tattoos and the complexion of a five year old.

I think it would be a folly for Bioware to do this specifically for sexuality, because why would sexuality be the only thing subject to any sort of toggle? It implies to me that there would be something about sexuality that makes it okay to alter to your preference. It implies to me that people who are bothered by any configuration of any kind of sexuality deserve to be accommodated. It implies to me that concerns of the players, whether they be because they want more "realism" or because bisexuals are gross or whatever, are more important than the "integrity" of the characters (I am attempting to word this in a way that doesn't make me sound just like the ****s who complain about the dirty gays coming to Mass Effect but I can't so LET'S GO SUPERFICIALLY SIMILAR ARGUMENTS THAT ARE SORT OF DIFFERENT BUT SOMEONE WILL PROBABLY HARP ON ANYWAY).

That's not even to mention the shear amount of fandom ****** this would incur. Remember Princess Cousie and those dirty non-canon elves and mages and dwarves? I can just imagine the **** flinging that would go back and forth between the "canon" sexuality camps and the "dirty fanfic heathen" camps.

It's less insidious and horrible, but I dislike it for the same base reasons I dislike the gay toggle minus the "you are a morally reprehensible bigot who does not deserve to live" ire I reserve for people like ReconTeam. Sexuality, or any aspect of a character's traits, is just not something I think the player should be able to change through a metagame decision. I do not think it is a problem for which any kind of compromise is acceptable.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

ipgd wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Well since you replied to my post where I was trying to clarify my position with a response suggesting that it would be similar to an AAA game studio condoning a no-gay button, and you never actually acknowledged my clarification or corrected others' misunderstanding of what I was saying, you can see how I would be confused.

Well, let me clarify: I think it would send an implicitly unfortunate message about changing characters so they're more personally appealing to you. I dislike it for the same reason I dislike fanfiction that changes Alistair's sexuality, and mods that give Anders stupid hair and tattoos and the complexion of a five year old.

I think it would be a folly for Bioware to do this specifically for sexuality, because why would sexuality be the only thing subject to any sort of toggle? It implies to me that there would be something about sexuality that makes it okay to alter to your preference. It implies to me that people who are bothered by any configuration of any kind of sexuality deserve to be accommodated. It implies to me that concerns of the players, whether they be because they want more "realism" or because bisexuals are gross or whatever, are more important than the "integrity" of the characters (I am attempting to word this in a way that doesn't make me sound just like the ****s who complain about the dirty gays coming to Mass Effect but I can't so LET'S GO SUPERFICIALLY SIMILAR ARGUMENTS THAT ARE SORT OF DIFFERENT BUT SOMEONE WILL PROBABLY HARP ON ANYWAY).

That's not even to mention the shear amount of fandom ****** this would incur. Remember Princess Cousie and those dirty non-canon elves and mages and dwarves? I can just imagine the **** flinging that would go back and forth between the "canon" sexuality camps and the "dirty fanfic heathen" camps.

It's less insidious and horrible, but I dislike it for the same base reasons I dislike the gay toggle minus the "you are a morally reprehensible bigot who does not deserve to live" ire I reserve for people like ReconTeam. Sexuality, or any aspect of a character's traits, is just not something I think the player should be able to change through a metagame decision. I do not think it is a problem for which any kind of compromise is acceptable.

Just to clarify: You consider someone writing a fanfiction where Alistair is bisexual to be just as disrespectful as including a toggle that would allow male PCs to romance Alistair? 

Because the entire reason I support the idea of increasing options is that fanfiction has made me realize that we shouldn't impose limitations on someone's imagination. If you think that even writing a story where Alistair is bi is wrong, then yeah we'll never agree.

Before becoming accepting of fanfiction, I was firmly in the "canonical sexualities distributed throughout the spectrum" camp. But then the fanficcers made me realize that they should be allowed to have their fun too, and why not allow it in game? I guess if it's better to not even try to accomodate people's imaginations, I could go back to the "canonical sexualities throughout the spectrum" stance.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 11 juillet 2011 - 05:52 .

[ipgd]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Just to clarify: You consider someone writing a fanfiction where Alistair is bisexual to be just as disrespectful as including a toggle that would allow male PCs to romance Alistair? 

Because the entire reason I support the idea of increasing options is that fanfiction has made me realize that we shouldn't impose limitations on someone's imagination. If you think that even writing a story where Alistair is bi is wrong, then yeah we'll never agree.

I'd think it's silly, but I wouldn't care because a teenage girl in her bedroom writing smut for fun isn't a massive game development studio who has some responsibility for the messages they're sending. I'm completely fine with fanworks and mods existing, but it's something else when it's "canonized" by the developers.

[BlueMew]

Seriously, I think that people who take serious offence (as in: WTF!!!) either by being (politely) turned down or being hit on by their own gender *or* the other have issues of a sort that might have nothing to do with homophobia.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...

I can't really get myself to understand why this is such a big deal.

When you have as few as four LI's, having all of them open to both genders is a good idea. Otherwise, gay people will end up with only one choice and that's hardly ideal. Certainly, other sexualities could easily be represented as well, just not by the romanceable companions.

If there are as many as eleven (seriously?) then that's another case.

I don't like the toggle ideas for reasons that ipgd already mentioned. I have a single advice for people who dislike being hit on by members of the same sex, which is, suck it up and deal with it. If you're not interested in someone, for any reason, it's a simple process to turn them down. Once, I had a man wrapping his arms around me and kissing me without warning exactly five minutes into our conversation and I told him to ****** off. Easy as pie. And Anders? People throwing fits about him making a very gentle and polite approach towards their male characters get exactly zero sympathy from me. It's just something they have to learn to deal with like adults.

When you say "but with eleven, that's a different case," that's a case we may ultimately have to deal with. And yes, eleven... no more than six available in one game at one time (because of gender segregation), but in the series, there are the nine base romances (Kaidan, Ashley, Liara, Garrus, Thane, Jacob, Tali, Miranda, and Jack) and the two sebastian style romancesque relationships (Kelly and Morinth, don't really count but are close enough), and the possibility of more romances being added in ME3.

And it's when you have nine or more romances that you really see the issue. I said earlier that I didn't think it was an issue in Dragon Age, but if a future Dragon Age game had more than four romances, it could be something we'd want to look at. It's really something that you only understand if you've played Mass Effect. Let's say you want a m/m same sex romance. Well, who are they going to make available? Kaidan, Jacob, Thane, or Garrus? All four? One?

If you make all of them available, you get harem syndrome. If you make only some available, people who are fans of the ones who are m/f only feel left out. Or look at the f/f selections: I want Tali to be available for female shepards, and I don't care about any of the others. 

At this point, I think I'm just trying to be too inclusive and make too many people happy.  It's becoming increasingly obvious that trying to find any area of compromise between the "All LIs should be available to everyone" group and the "sexualities across the spectrum should be portrayed" groups is more trouble than it's worth. I should just sit back and not care.

In trying to describe a solution that offers more options, people have begun talking about a solution that offers fewer options and that nobody in this thread actually advocates, because it's easier to talk about.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 11 juillet 2011 - 06:03 .