57020 réponses à ce sujet

[ipgd]

yukidama wrote...

What highcastle said. I just happen to prefer the way one plays out over the other (you'll never guess which lolololo).

F!Hawke, right !!!? because how else can Anders chew his baby into the world if he don't got a womb to squirt in

[beckaliz]

farkye on dA

This calls for putting Xenon back into my sig.


EDIT: @ipgd: ..... D: Anders =/= Edward

Modifié par beckaliz, 12 juillet 2011 - 02:55 .

[highcastle]

ipgd wrote...

yukidama wrote...

What highcastle said. I just happen to prefer the way one plays out over the other (you'll never guess which lolololo).

F!Hawke, right !!!? because how else can Anders chew his baby into the world if he don't got a womb to squirt in

Clearly you've missed out on the wonder that is mpreg. (Said very, very sarcastically as tone is so hard to convey online.)

[beckaliz]

Too many odd thoughts in my head right now.

Modifié par beckaliz, 12 juillet 2011 - 03:14 .

[ademska]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I guess I am the only one who is
in favor of heavy restrictions of LIs, based on gender, origin, beliefs, race, actions, mannerisms, class / spec....etc. I think it gives them more character and alleviate the feeling that the PC can get whoever he / she wants.

we've had this convo before, KoP, and what it came down to was that the above ^^^ is a really nifty concept, and something most people weren't opposed to, but that it is so patently impossible to implement outside of a dedicated dating sim that the only viable alternative is completely open love interests. when your only consistent variable is gender, you run into a serious problem.

@highcastle:
there we go, that's an explanation i really like. differentiating between the genders of hawke just sort of seems to cheapen one over the other, depending on your perception of the importance of anders' physical or emotional attraction to hawke. like, him being irrevocably in love with hawke no matter what is just so huge to him and i don't like the idea of gender distinguishers.

Modifié par ademska, 12 juillet 2011 - 03:05 .

[ipgd]

highcastle wrote...

Clearly you've missed out on the wonder that is mpreg. (Said very, very sarcastically as tone is so hard to convey online.)

I was setting that joke up, yes.

Though I'm having a hard time imagining manHawke with a baby. Anders would have to shoulder that duty, I'm afraid, and it's awfully hard to tear your own stomach open with your teeth. Plus, we couldn't have Fenris implanting on Hawke's baby while it's in Anders's womb. It just isn't the same.

[mellifera]

ipgd wrote...

yukidama wrote...

What highcastle said. I just happen to prefer the way one plays out over the other (you'll never guess which lolololo).

F!Hawke, right !!!? because how else can Anders chew his baby into the world if he don't got a womb to squirt in

How did you know? I'm currently writing a fic where my FHawke is pregnant with sextuplets after having sex with Anders, Fenris, Ewan McGregor, Ezio Auditore da Firenze, her Mabari and Alistair. They're all the father, since she's super fertile and had sex with each one immediately after the other. Also she's been snorting lines of lyrium off of Cullen's ass for the entirety of her pregnancy (Cullen isn't a father she only let him put it in her other places), and is going crazy from withdrawal and all her boyfriends are so sick with worry and angst because she doesn't love them most. All the kids will be mages too.

Modifié par yukidama, 12 juillet 2011 - 03:06 .

[SurelyForth]

highcastle wrote...


I think Anders is attracted to Hawkes of both genders from the outset. He tells m!Hawke about Karl as a way to getting his more fluid view of sexuality across. But the story itself is a cautonary tale--Anders got involved with Karl and look what happened. One tranquil mage. He doesn't need to throw out a bunch of warnings because Karl himself is warning enough.

With f!Hawke, he keeps that part of himself a secret at first, likely to avoid scaring her away or just wanting to skip a potentially awkward conversation. But without Karl's example, he needs some way to keep her at bay. So he gives her the I-would-only-hurt-you talk.

But that's just like my opinion dude.

That still doesn't work for me, because it still leaves that niggling gap where a F!Hawke must accept his word as final while, with M!Hawke, it's ok for the attraction to persist. Since I don't want to think that Anders is sexist and considers F!Hawke a frail flower that will die if he so much as breathes on her, I would prefer that there be a reason beyond him thinking less of a woman's ability to handle him. 

And it's not as if there's any inequality there, and it all coalesces in short order anyway since I agree with ademska that his feelings for Hawke are a defining characteristic. It's just a way for me to use the tones of the conversations to avoid thinking ill of the character or the writers. One ends on a more emotionally wraught note, while the other is more flirtatious. It's not a huge leap in logic there (or at least I don't think it is).

Because I am going to bed and will probably not be able to Argue Anders tomorrow...this is strictly my interpretation of it, forged over the months of seriously hating that first conversation to the point where my Hawkes will probably never even be nice to him there ever again because neither convo really sits well with me (one for content, the other for "So! My recently dead lover. "

Modifié par SurelyForth, 12 juillet 2011 - 03:14 .

[ipgd]

yukidama wrote...

How did you know? I'm currently writing a fic where my FHawke is pregnant with sextuplets after having sex with Anders, Fenris, Ewan McGregor, Ezio Auditore da Firenze, her Mabari and Alistair. They're all the father, since she's super fertile and had sex with each one immediately after the other. Also she's been snorting lines of lyrium off of Cullen's ass for the entirety of her pregnancy (Cullen isn't a father she only let him put it in her other places), and is going crazy from withdrawal and all her boyfriends are so sick with worry and angst because she doesn't love them most. All the kids will be mages too.

I trust they will all be named Anfenwanziobaristair.

[mellifera]

ipgd wrote...

yukidama wrote...

How did you know? I'm currently writing a fic where my FHawke is pregnant with sextuplets after having sex with Anders, Fenris, Ewan McGregor, Ezio Auditore da Firenze, her Mabari and Alistair. They're all the father, since she's super fertile and had sex with each one immediately after the other. Also she's been snorting lines of lyrium off of Cullen's ass for the entirety of her pregnancy (Cullen isn't a father she only let him put it in her other places), and is going crazy from withdrawal and all her boyfriends are so sick with worry and angst because she doesn't love them most. All the kids will be mages too.

I trust they will all be named Anfenwanziobaristair.

Do you know me at all? They'll all be named Douglas Caligula (the First - Sixth depending on birth order).

[ipgd]

yukidama wrote...

Do you know me at all? They'll all be named Douglas Caligula (the First - Sixth depending on birth order).

But dog blood runs in their veins. That name will be a curse upon their heads, scorned forever by the feline gods for such mockery.

[highcastle]

SurelyForth wrote...

highcastle wrote...


I think Anders is attracted to Hawkes of both genders from the outset. He tells m!Hawke about Karl as a way to getting his more fluid view of sexuality across. But the story itself is a cautonary tale--Anders got involved with Karl and look what happened. One tranquil mage. He doesn't need to throw out a bunch of warnings because Karl himself is warning enough.

With f!Hawke, he keeps that part of himself a secret at first, likely to avoid scaring her away or just wanting to skip a potentially awkward conversation. But without Karl's example, he needs some way to keep her at bay. So he gives her the I-would-only-hurt-you talk.

But that's just like my opinion dude.

That still doesn't work for me, because it still leaves that niggling gap where a F!Hawke must accept his word as final while, with M!Hawke, it's ok for the attraction to persist. Since I don't want to think that Anders is sexist and considers F!Hawke a frail flower that will die if he so much as breathes on her, I would prefer that there be a reason beyond him thinking less of a woman's ability to handle him. 

And it's not as if there's any inequality there, and it all coalesces in short order anyway since I agree with ademska that his feelings for Hawke are a defining characteristic. It's just a way for me to use the tones of the conversations to avoid thinking ill of the character or the writers. One ends on a more emotionally wraught note, while the other is more flirtatious. It's not a huge leap in logic there (or at least I don't think it is).

How does f!Hawke have to accept his word as final (legitimate question here; I tend to play m!Hawke)? Can't she still flirt with him?

But I really don't think it's so much that Anders considers f!Hawke a frail flower as much as he puts her off one way and m!Hawke off another. With both genders, Anders says he's tried very hard to resist. And I disagree that his romance with m!Hawke is light and flirtatious. For the most part, he ignores m!Hawke's advances (aside from the "looking glass" comment) until Act 2.

[mellifera]

ipgd wrote...

yukidama wrote...

Do you know me at all? They'll all be named Douglas Caligula (the First - Sixth depending on birth order).

But dog blood runs in their veins. That name will be a curse upon their heads, scorned forever by the feline gods for such mockery.

Actually, she also had sex with a were-liger whose seed is so potent all her kids have his DNA.

Trufax, man.

[SurelyForth]

highcastle wrote...

How does f!Hawke have to accept his word as final (legitimate question here; I tend to play m!Hawke)? Can't she still flirt with him?

But I really don't think it's so much that Anders considers f!Hawke a frail flower as much as he puts her off one way and m!Hawke off another. With both genders, Anders says he's tried very hard to resist. And I disagree that his romance with m!Hawke is light and flirtatious. For the most part, he ignores m!Hawke's advances (aside from the "looking glass" comment) until Act 2.

He'll respond to flirting the first time. In the second convo, he shuts her down. As in "No. I'll only hurt you and that would kill me as surely as the templars."

And I'm discussing the one conversation in Act I where he can initiate the flirting.

[FieryDove]

highcastle wrote...

I think Anders is attracted to Hawkes of both genders from the outset. He tells m!Hawke about Karl as a way to getting his more fluid view of sexuality across. But the story itself is a cautonary tale--Anders got involved with Karl and look what happened. One tranquil mage. He doesn't need to throw out a bunch of warnings because Karl himself is warning enough.

With f!Hawke, he keeps that part of himself a secret at first, likely to avoid scaring her away or just wanting to skip a potentially awkward conversation. But without Karl's example, he needs some way to keep her at bay. So he gives her the I-would-only-hurt-you talk.

That's one way to look at it. Yes, I agree Anders and all Li's are what is the term *Hawkesexual*?

But if one isn't playing a mage I don't see being made tranquil as a worry. I think Karl would have been made tranquil sooner or later without Anders coming to Kirkwall at all.

Digging deeper...
In DAA:

I wonder why Anders never brought up men to the Warden? Male/Female warden it was all pretty girls, plump wives, nubile mistresses and we do see one of his friends who is female and is possibly more than just a *friend*.

I can see where people get the idea from DAA that Anders was straight. It was almost like a spotlight shining in the darkness *I want wimmins!*.

I just don't believe for a minute he cares more about female hawke's and needs to warn them off constantly because they *are* female. But I'm stubborn like that.

Just throwing that out there, random musings.

[highcastle]

SurelyForth wrote...

highcastle wrote...

How does f!Hawke have to accept his word as final (legitimate question here; I tend to play m!Hawke)? Can't she still flirt with him?

But I really don't think it's so much that Anders considers f!Hawke a frail flower as much as he puts her off one way and m!Hawke off another. With both genders, Anders says he's tried very hard to resist. And I disagree that his romance with m!Hawke is light and flirtatious. For the most part, he ignores m!Hawke's advances (aside from the "looking glass" comment) until Act 2.

He'll respond to flirting the first time. In the second convo, he shuts her down. As in "No. I'll only hurt you and that would kill me as surely as the templars."

And I'm discussing the one conversation in Act I where he can initiate the flirting.

That's not so different than m!Hawke, then. He'll respond in the first conversation, but ignore him in the second. Which I take as being in support of my original claim. As in, at this point Hawke should know better than to push for anything. Anders already told him about Karl, thus he knows the risks to getting involved with the mage and the reasons why Anders might be reluctant to do so. F!Hawke is uninformed, so Anders uses this opportunity to correct her without sharing that particular facet of his past.

[beckaliz]

yukidama wrote...

ipgd wrote...

yukidama wrote...

Do you know me at all? They'll all be named Douglas Caligula (the First - Sixth depending on birth order).

But dog blood runs in their veins. That name will be a curse upon their heads, scorned forever by the feline gods for such mockery.

Actually, she also had sex with a were-liger whose seed is so potent all her kids have his DNA.

Trufax, man.

Were-liger... I'm sure I could find art of that.

[SurelyForth]

highcastle wrote...


That's not so different than m!Hawke, then. He'll respond in the first conversation, but ignore him in the second. Which I take as being in support of my original claim. As in, at this point Hawke should know better than to push for anything. Anders already told him about Karl, thus he knows the risks to getting involved with the mage and the reasons why Anders might be reluctant to do so. F!Hawke is uninformed, so Anders uses this opportunity to correct her without sharing that particular facet of his past.

Then why have I heard (repeatedly) how creepy and/or off-putting how he deals with F!Hawke is? 

I mean, this isn't something that I'm manufacturing, nor am I saying he prefers one over the other at all. It's just that his approach is notably different and sets an entirely different tone going into Act 2. When the last thing he can say to you on the subject of romance is "No." and it's only because of the gender of your character, then it probably means Something. I have came up with a solution that satisfies my desire to not be with a total Edward Cullen.

And are we supposed to think that Anders thinks that HAWKE doesn't know the dangers of getting with a mage? Hawke whose sole purpose at that moment is to raise enough money to buy the status that will fend off the templars? Anders is more of a threat because he's an abomination, and Karl has nothing to do with that.

Modifié par SurelyForth, 12 juillet 2011 - 03:40 .

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Damnit, you guys keep giving me great ideas for psych research and I'm not in the field anymore. It's not fair! 

I'd love to take some fics, change the genders and nothing else, remove the sex scenes, and ask readers to decide whether or not they consider the main character a sue. It'd be interesting to see if the exact same fic got classified as being sue-ish more often depending on gender, if all other variables are the same, or if the sue-ishness of a story is based on the text alone, without regard to the protagonist's gender.

And Dragon Age is the perfect fandom to do this study with, because all romances are bisexual.

It would be fascinating.

[Jean]

It has been my experience that female characters tend to be judged more harshly than males.

Modifié par Batteries, 12 juillet 2011 - 03:52 .

[SurelyForth]

Batteries wrote...

It has been my experience that female characters tend to be judged more harshly than males.

Definitely. 

*see Yuki and ipgd's above exchange* 

Even if it's mocking a specific type of writer/fan, the fact that it's automatically attached to F!Hawke is...yes. 

Modifié par SurelyForth, 12 juillet 2011 - 03:59 .

[highcastle]

SurelyForth wrote...

Then why have I heard (repeatedly) how creepy and/or off-putting how he deals with F!Hawke is? 

I mean, this isn't something that I'm manufacturing, nor am I saying he prefers one over the other at all. It's just that his approach is notably different and sets an entirely different tone going into Act 2. When the last thing he can say to you on the subject of romance is "No." and it's only because of the gender of your character, then it probably means Something. I have came up with a solution that satisfies my desire to not be with a total Edward Cullen.

And are we supposed to think that Anders thinks that HAWKE doesn't know the dangers of getting with a mage? Hawke whose sole purpose at that moment is to raise enough money to buy the status that will fend off the templars? Anders is more of a threat because he's an abomination, and Karl has nothing to do with that.

Like I said, I've far more experienced with m!Hawke's romance than f!Hawke's since I've only ever played the former at this point. That's why I was asking my questions. I really only know the differences as broad strokes, not from personal experience.

That being said, Anders' answer to both Hawkes is "No." It's not like he starts a romance with m!Hawke sooner than f!Hawke. And as much as you might dislike the implications that he gives her those talks because he feels more driven to protect her than m!Hawke, there are just as many unfortunate implications to saying "well, his connection with f!Hawke is emotional and deep at the start while it's physical and shallow with m!Hawke."

I'm not saying my interpretation is correct here. Because there's so much unvoiced in this game, there's room for both of us to come up with something that we feel more comfortable with. Mine works for me, if yours works for you, then it's just as valid. I just happen to find it at odds with my own personal head-canon.

[mellifera]

SurelyForth wrote...

Batteries wrote...

It has been my experience that female characters tend to be judged more harshly than males.

Definitely. 

*see Yuki and ipgd's above exchange* 

I was basing that off an actual kinkmeme prompt that requested F!Hawke getting pregnant by BOTH Fenris and Anders where she was going through lyrium addiction and had mage babies. You think I wouldn't have found it just as awful if It was a male Hawke? Actually, it would have been worse since mpreg.

And yes, clearly I hate female characters.

Modifié par yukidama, 12 juillet 2011 - 04:05 .

[ademska]

SurelyForth wrote...

Definitely. 

*see Yuki and ipgd's above exchange* 

Even if it's mocking a specific type of writer/fan, the fact that it's automatically attached to F!Hawke is...yes. 

NOW NOW SURELY

mpreg is way worse

[SurelyForth]

highcastle wrote...
Like I said, I've far more experienced with m!Hawke's romance than f!Hawke's since I've only ever played the former at this point. That's why I was asking my questions. I really only know the differences as broad strokes, not from personal experience.

That being said, Anders' answer to both Hawkes is "No." It's not like he starts a romance with m!Hawke sooner than f!Hawke. And as much as you might dislike the implications that he gives her those talks because he feels more driven to protect her than m!Hawke, there are just as many unfortunate implications to saying "well, his connection with f!Hawke is emotional and deep at the start while it's physical and shallow with m!Hawke."

I'm not saying my interpretation is correct here. Because there's so much unvoiced in this game, there's room for both of us to come up with something that we feel more comfortable with. Mine works for me, if yours works for you, then it's just as valid. I just happen to find it at odds with my own personal head-canon.

And I've repeatedly pointed out that it all washes out almost immediately and I certainly didn't say that there was no emotional connection with M!Hawke or no physical attraction with F!Hawke. I'm saying that, from my experiences with having been attracted to different people in different ways, I approach them differently. Not better or worse...just different. He clearly cares about both, and he loves both just as much when it comes down to it. Which I've also said.