57020 réponses à ce sujet

[YamiSnuffles]

I figured this is why the thread FAQ just straight up calls him a terrorist? Anyway, it doesn't seem like this is a debate so much as a lot of people gearing up for a debate that will likely never materialize. It does make me feel nostalgic though.

EDIT: Top? Whatever, because I'm a terrible person... TERRORISM!

Modifié par YamiSnuffles, 12 juillet 2011 - 08:18 .

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Well since nobody is contributing anything to the sexuality discussion, I'll explain why I'm so tired of the other one.

I think Anders fits the modern term, sure. I don't think the modern term is relevant or useful in any way. Read any of the linguistic scholarship on the term and the consensus is that it's no more than a political cudgel that can realistically be applied to any violence a person does not approve of, if you use broader definitions. It's a word that didn't even exist before the 1790s, and didn't have its current definition until the 1940s. How that is relevant in a medieval world of magic... I cannot comprehend.

Yes, Anders is a Terrorist, Moses is a Terrorist, V is a terrorist, Nelson Mandela is a terrorist. So. What. Shut. Up. About. It.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 12 juillet 2011 - 08:19 .

[ipgd]

I've been reading Savage since I was 11 so I'm not really sure a discomfort with dom/sub has anything to do with disliking Fenris's romance and being indifferent to his character. He doesn't even come off as particularly submissive to me, just completely and utterly passive. He just... doesn't do anything.

[upsettingshorts]

@CGG:  It matters because of this:

Upsettingshorts wrote...

The point I'm trying to make is this:

Terrorism is a tactic. It is a method of asymmetric warfare utilized to bring about political change that has no regard for, or deliberately targets noncombatants. Anders utilized this tactic in support of - depending on your position - a sympathetic cause. Why is that important? Because it shows how Anders and Justice have changed due to prolonged contact with each other, it demonstrates how far the struggle between mages and the Templars has escalated, it raises the stakes of the conflict to such a height that Hawke must choose between supporting the police state or terrorism - both reprehensible outcomes that highlight the tragedy of the conflict, and overall deeply effect the severity of the implications of the narrative.

To then say that what Anders did wasn't terrorism chucks all that in the waste bin, and for what purpose? So we can feel better about supporting him? Why should we? If his cause is ultimately just, than the ends justify the means - and we ought make no apologies - including denials - for what he had to do to see it through.

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Read any of the linguistic scholarship on the term and the consensus is that it's no more than a political cudgel that can realistically be applied to any violence a person does not approve of, if you use broader definitions.

The etymology is irrelevant, as is whether or not it would have been a useful term in the time period the technology and society of Thedas are (vaguely) inspired by.

It's a modern game written by modern authors drawing clear parallels to contemporary issues.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 12 juillet 2011 - 08:27 .

[mellifera]

I don't understand the link between not liking Fenris and not liking dominant women. Sometimes I wonder if you're just saying things to drum up conflict where there is none.

[beckaliz]

@KoP: It depends on how much butter. And if it's real butter or movie theater butter. Movie theater butter is nauseating. But real butter is yummy.

[upsettingshorts]

beckaliz wrote...

@KoP: It depends on how much butter. And if it's real butter or movie theater butter. Movie theater butter is nauseating. But real butter is yummy.

That's because movie theater butter isn't butter.  It's hydrogenated soybean oil.

/worked at a movie theater

[Rinji the Bearded]

I'd argue that Hawke is the opposite of dominant for a good chunk of the romance, because he effectively takes the reigns from Hawke when he, you know, leaves for three years to get over ... whatever he needs to get over.

[YamiSnuffles]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Well since nobody is contributing anything to the sexuality discussion, I'll explain why I'm so tired of the other one.

Hey, I'm always up for sexy talks if people want to take things that way. I just don't care to talk about Fenris. Nothing against Fenris, just, you know, Anders Thread and all. Although, someone else will have to start this one if it's going to go anywhere good. If it's up to me we'll be back to talking about Anders' underwear shrine.

[beckaliz]

@CGG: I'd add something to the sexuality thing but I'm not sure how to tie it into Anders as far as my opinions go.

[Patriciachr34]

yukidama wrote...

I don't understand the link between not liking Fenris and not liking dominant women. Sometimes I wonder if you're just saying things to drum up conflict where there is none.

Just to give me a frame of reference for your comment, what do you consider a dominant woman?  Is it tha a woman who fills a predominatly male role; or a woman who controls a relationship?

[beckaliz]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

beckaliz wrote...

@KoP: It depends on how much butter. And if it's real butter or movie theater butter. Movie theater butter is nauseating. But real butter is yummy.

That's because movie theater butter isn't butter.  It's hydrogenated soybean oil.

/worked at a movie theater

Eew. ;_;

[mellifera]

Patriciachr34 wrote...

yukidama wrote...

I don't understand the link between not liking Fenris and not liking dominant women. Sometimes I wonder if you're just saying things to drum up conflict where there is none.

Just to give me a frame of reference for your comment, what do you consider a dominant woman?  Is it tha a woman who fills a predominatly male role; or a woman who controls a relationship?

I'm not the one arguing about dominant women, you'd better ask CGG what she means instead. I guess she's applying the terms using dom/sub from BDSM subculture?

Modifié par yukidama, 12 juillet 2011 - 08:32 .

[ipgd]

Patriciachr34 wrote...

Just to give me a frame of reference for your comment, what do you consider a dominant woman?  Is it tha a woman who fills a predominatly male role; or a woman who controls a relationship?

The woman who put in the ball gag and is now crushing my genitals with her heels, of course.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

yukidama wrote...

I don't understand the link between not liking Fenris and not liking dominant women. Sometimes I wonder if you're just saying things to drum up conflict where there is none.

I wasn't implying any connection, I was referencing discussions I've seen in the past (it was an offhanded comment in response to Upsettingshorts' comment on some of the rhetorical jumping-jacks that occur in other threads). I also don't think that disliking or liking Fenris has anything to do with anything deeper than personal taste, I was simply explaining what I think is interesting about it.

Hmm, the particular post you seem to have taken issue with was one of those responses that got separated by a page divide from the post it was responding to, so it lost context. My apologies for the confusion.

I'm also not actually irritated that people weren't piling on to my silly sexuality discussion, it's more that I am SO tired of the terrorist one that it makes me snark at everything in reach.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 12 juillet 2011 - 08:41 .

[Patriciachr34]

ipgd wrote...

Patriciachr34 wrote...

Just to give me a frame of reference for your comment, what do you consider a dominant woman?  Is it tha a woman who fills a predominatly male role; or a woman who controls a relationship?

The woman who put in the ball gag and is now crushing my genitals with her heels, of course.

LOL!  You're scary sometimes.

[Patriciachr34]

yukidama wrote...

Patriciachr34 wrote...

yukidama wrote...

I don't understand the link between not liking Fenris and not liking dominant women. Sometimes I wonder if you're just saying things to drum up conflict where there is none.

Just to give me a frame of reference for your comment, what do you consider a dominant woman?  Is it tha a woman who fills a predominatly male role; or a woman who controls a relationship?

I'm not the one arguing about dominant women, you'd better ask CGG what she means instead. I guess she's applying the terms using dom/sub from BDSM subculture?

Thanks Yuki.

[ademska]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

That's because movie theater butter isn't butter.  It's hydrogenated soybean oil.

/worked at a movie theater

that's the same **** they put in half&half, isn't it?

half cream half nasty crap

[upsettingshorts]

ademska wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

That's because movie theater butter isn't butter.  It's hydrogenated soybean oil.

that's the same **** they put in half&half, isn't it?

half cream half nasty crap

It's essentially what trans fat is, actually.  

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 12 juillet 2011 - 08:45 .

[beckaliz]

As far as sexuality goes with Anders, I'd like to look at his age difference with Hawke and how it relates to their interaction. My thought has Anders generally, although not exclusively, dominant. (And I'm not referring to BDSM things.) Being older, he inevitably has more experience, and he is also a whole lot more intense about the relationship on-screen. (I don't think Hawke's dramatic "I want you right here" makes up for the rest of what Anders says.) He follows Hawke in public, but I get the feeling that he's more of a leader in private.

There are nuances to my opinion about this that I'm not sure how to put to words right now.

Modifié par beckaliz, 12 juillet 2011 - 08:45 .

[CulturalGeekGirl]

ademska wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

That's because movie theater butter isn't butter.  It's hydrogenated soybean oil.

/worked at a movie theater

that's the same **** they put in half&half, isn't it?

half cream half nasty crap

Umm... as far as I'm aware, half&half is half cream, half whole milk. That leads me to ask where the heck are you getting your half&half, so I can never shop there? 

:happy:

And now I'm going to the farmer's market, before I post something I regret.

[Jean]

Eug. I normally load my hot chocolates with half & half. If the gas stations charged for it they'd get a nice chunk of change from me.