57020 réponses à ce sujet

[KnightofPhoenix]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...
The thing is, the whole dominant and submissive idea is much subtler than people imagine. The role of the rescuer or the protector is seen as dominant, and that's the aspect of "dominance" that appeals to me, rather than the control that is most commonly the first place the mind goes.

Protector, maybe (if it's not excessive). Rescuer? I'd find that unappealing if someone is looking for me to "save" or "rescue" them. Help them, sure.

And yea, I am trying to go back to this and avoid terrorism (and the butter thing that's going to make me puke).

EDIT: though I am guessing it's semantics at this point, as to what is dominance and submission outside of bed.
I am actually not sure whether I'd prefer perfectly equal, or me leading the relationship while being challenged once in a while.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 12 juillet 2011 - 08:52 .

[ademska]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Umm... as far as I'm aware, half&half is half cream, half whole milk. That leads me to ask where the heck are you getting your half&half, so I can never shop there? 

:happy:

my parents always bought fat free half&half which i thought maybe a little bitty bit oxymoronic

i use organic whole milk because my body is a temple

barf barf barf barf

@shorts i knew hydrogenated was the worst oil extraction method, but, yeah, no, gross.


as to the anders age thing, do we have any idea what age in thedas typically constitutes adulthood or marrying age? because if it's lower than our contemporary society's, i doubt the age disparity made much difference t b h

[ipgd]

ademska wrote...

as to the anders age thing, do we have any idea what age in thedas typically constitutes adulthood or marrying age? because if it's lower than our contemporary society's, i doubt the age disparity made much difference t b h

"if it's bled just stick it in"

[highcastle]

beckaliz wrote...

As far as sexuality goes with Anders, I'd like to look at his age difference with Hawke and how it relates to their interaction. My thought has Anders generally, although not exclusively, dominant. (And I'm not referring to BDSM things.) Being older, he inevitably has more experience, and he is also a whole lot more intense about the relationship on-screen. (I don't think Hawke's dramatic "I want you right here" makes up for the rest of what Anders says.) He follows Hawke in public, but I get the feeling that he's more of a leader in private.

There are nuances to my opinion about this that I'm not sure how to put to words right now.

I tend to agree with this. Mostly it's just personal head-canon stuff, but I thought the way he and Hawke fell into bed together suggested Anders was taking a bit more of the control. Plus, I don't think Hawke's always as dominant as some people think (at least not all Hawkes). There's that lovely little line snarky!Hawke gets when accepting the Night Terrors quest ("Ooh, it's not often you get to submit and still come out the victor"). The way it's delivered...I probably put way too much thought into this, but it always sounded as though Hawke was speaking from, erm, personal experience.

I'll just go in my corner now.

[beckaliz]

ademska wrote...

as to the anders age thing, do we have any idea what age in thedas typically constitutes adulthood or marrying age? because if it's lower than our contemporary society's, i doubt the age disparity made much difference t b h

I would say the age difference isn't so much a societal thing, so much as it's simply having more life experience. They have both been through quite a lot, but Hawke definitely has less of it. We can consider Anders's time with the Warden, for starters. That's a lot of really weighty stuff. And if Hawke takes Anders on the expedition, well, that's a situation where Anders would be put into a position where his greater experience would be more noticeable.

At least in the first few years, I see Anders as being stronger in some ways. But then the marvel of character development comes into play and he loses his strengths as he spirals down into la-la land.


ETA
@ipgd: eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeewww! but rofl

Modifié par beckaliz, 12 juillet 2011 - 09:05 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Personally, I think the one who is clearly and without a question dominant in every fashion is Varric, should he lower himself to dating mortals.

[KnightofPhoenix]

beckaliz wrote...
At least in the first few years, I see Anders as being stronger in some ways. But then the marvel of character development comes into play and he loses his strengths as he spirals down into la-la land.

I'd actually think he'd become more dominant as he gets "worse". At least on the outside. On the inside, he might look at romanced Hawke as a savior, maybe. Don't know, I didn't try the romance.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 12 juillet 2011 - 09:11 .

[Heidenreich]

highcastle wrote...

beckaliz wrote...

As far as sexuality goes with Anders, I'd like to look at his age difference with Hawke and how it relates to their interaction. My thought has Anders generally, although not exclusively, dominant. (And I'm not referring to BDSM things.) Being older, he inevitably has more experience, and he is also a whole lot more intense about the relationship on-screen. (I don't think Hawke's dramatic "I want you right here" makes up for the rest of what Anders says.) He follows Hawke in public, but I get the feeling that he's more of a leader in private.

There are nuances to my opinion about this that I'm not sure how to put to words right now.

I tend to agree with this. Mostly it's just personal head-canon stuff, but I thought the way he and Hawke fell into bed together suggested Anders was taking a bit more of the control. Plus, I don't think Hawke's always as dominant as some people think (at least not all Hawkes). There's that lovely little line snarky!Hawke gets when accepting the Night Terrors quest ("Ooh, it's not often you get to submit and still come out the victor"). The way it's delivered...I probably put way too much thought into this, but it always sounded as though Hawke was speaking from, erm, personal experience.

I'll just go in my corner now.

At the end of the day, Fenris is the submissive partner, and Anders is the Dominate, even if his personality is, on the outside, submissive. In bed, I have the sinking suspision that outside of the whole "No don't, I can't.." facade, he's the one who leads the way to all sorts of fun bedroom miss-adventures.

[ademska]

highcastle wrote...

I tend to agree with this. Mostly it's just personal head-canon stuff, but I thought the way he and Hawke fell into bed together suggested Anders was taking a bit more of the control. Plus, I don't think Hawke's always as dominant as some people think (at least not all Hawkes). There's that lovely little line snarky!Hawke gets when accepting the Night Terrors quest ("Ooh, it's not often you get to submit and still come out the victor"). The way it's delivered...I probably put way too much thought into this, but it always sounded as though Hawke was speaking from, erm, personal experience.

I'll just go in my corner now.

hmmmm

i don't think we can extrapolate their bedroom behavior from just that scene, but if we want to be super creepy and nitpick, hawke's the one who takes anders' hand and pulls him toward the bed and on top. thinking about it now, the whole scene seems pretty reciprocal. this is a weird discussion.


edit: @kop nah, while the romance is a deconstruction of crazy people doing crazy crap, the codex is pretty clear that anders hasn't devolved to that degree. not that, you know, "tender and devoted" particularly makes up for "only reason he's retained any sanity at all" for healthy relationships but whocurr, it's a whirlwind tempest of fascinating loveliness.

side note: i got no sleep last night

Modifié par ademska, 12 juillet 2011 - 09:14 .

[upsettingshorts]

Considering its about peoples' headcanon regarding how a videogame character behaves during intercourse, I'd say it's pretty weird. But normal for fandom, I suppose.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 12 juillet 2011 - 09:13 .

[beckaliz]

highcastle wrote...

I tend to agree with this. Mostly it's just personal head-canon stuff, but I thought the way he and Hawke fell into bed together suggested Anders was taking a bit more of the control. Plus, I don't think Hawke's always as dominant as some people think (at least not all Hawkes). There's that lovely little line snarky!Hawke gets when accepting the Night Terrors quest ("Ooh, it's not often you get to submit and still come out the victor"). The way it's delivered...I probably put way too much thought into this, but it always sounded as though Hawke was speaking from, erm, personal experience.

I'll just go in my corner now.

Hahaha too bad CGG ran off. Maybe she'll give us something good when she comes back.

Also, considering the trust aspect of the dominant/submissive relationship dynamic, the submissive one has to trust the other not to take advantage of any psychological power they might have in the relationship. Hawke in a relationship with Anders definitely has to put a lot of trust in him. I can't really imagine someone with a more forceful personality actually getting close to the man. Anders has the position of "I'll take care of you, I'm going to make sure nothing happens to you."



@Heidenreich: The "electricity thing". 

Modifié par beckaliz, 12 juillet 2011 - 09:15 .

[highcastle]

*sigh* Yeah, this is what happens when you go too long without sleep (blame A Dance With Dragons and a bookstore willing to sell it at midnight last night). You over-analyze something like a video game fade-to-black. Or apparently I do. I need sleep.

Modifié par highcastle, 12 juillet 2011 - 09:17 .

[beckaliz]

Mind you, I'm not necessarily talking just about intercourse. I'm also trying to take my position on the matter beyond the romance animations. Anders does break Hawke's heart at the last (unless headcanon has Hawke completely agreeing with him on everything), but up to that Hawke has to trust that he won't. That's definitely giving at least a decent amount of power to Anders in the relationship.

[highcastle]

beckaliz wrote...

Mind you, I'm not necessarily talking just about intercourse. I'm also trying to take my position on the matter beyond the romance animations. Anders does break Hawke's heart at the last (unless headcanon has Hawke completely agreeing with him on everything), but up to that Hawke has to trust that he won't. That's definitely giving at least a decent amount of power to Anders in the relationship.

There's also the point in the Justice quest. Again, this can be played a variety of ways, but if you want to complete the quest, at some point Hawke has to give in and go along with Anders without getting any real information. He can call Anders on his BS and he can tell him that loving someone doesn't mean always agreeing with him, but in the end he goes along with Anders. It definitely seems less egalitarian at that point and more like Hawke's falling into line.

[beckaliz]

@ademska: As far as the animation goes, since it's inevitably part of the discussion, Hawke takes Anders's hand and backs up. S/he doesn't turn and walk with him. This is approaching headcanon stuff, but it can be taken as sort of, "Yes, show me, I trust you." Or whatever.

But I don't care about the animation so much as the rest of the dynamic that they display.

Modifié par beckaliz, 12 juillet 2011 - 09:35 .

[ipgd]

ademska wrote...

i don't think we can extrapolate their bedroom behavior from just that scene, but if we want to be super creepy and nitpick, hawke's the one who takes anders' hand and pulls him toward the bed and on top. thinking about it now, the whole scene seems pretty reciprocal. this is a weird discussion.

hawke is the power bottom in bed and anders is the power bottom in the relationship

[berelinde]

YamiSnuffles wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Well since nobody is contributing anything to the sexuality discussion, I'll explain why I'm so tired of the other one.

Hey, I'm always up for sexy talks if people want to take things that way. I just don't care to talk about Fenris. Nothing against Fenris, just, you know, Anders Thread and all. Although, someone else will have to start this one if it's going to go anywhere good. If it's up to me we'll be back to talking about Anders' underwear shrine.

I, on the other hand, am always up for talking about Anders's underwear shrine.

Oh, wow. I just had this horrible mental... thing... that was kind of like what the Knight Bus does around corners. I briefly wondered whether we were talking about Anders worshiping Hawke's underwear or us worshiping the Sparklebutt, and then my brain did it's extra-dimensional jump thingy. Does Anders even wear underwear? He always struck me as the kind of guy that likes to go commando. And then I remembered the line in Awakenings about waking up on a ship for Rivain in his smallclothes with a tattoo on his forehead, so yeah, I guess he does. And now I'm back at Sparklebutt.

[YamiSnuffles]

Seeing as I have written and erased my reply five times now, I think I have to give up and just say I don't agree with people saying that Anders is obviously the dominant one in the relationship.

berelinde wrote...
I, on the other hand, am always up for talking about Anders's underwear shrine.

Oh, wow. I just had this horrible mental... thing... that was kind of like what the Knight Bus does around corners. I briefly wondered whether we were talking about Anders worshiping Hawke's underwear or us worshiping the Sparklebutt, and then my brain did it's extra-dimensional jump thingy. Does Anders even wear underwear? He always struck me as the kind of guy that likes to go commando. And then I remembered the line in Awakenings about waking up on a ship for Rivain in his smallclothes with a tattoo on his forehead, so yeah, I guess he does. And now I'm back at Sparklebutt.

Awakening Anders definitely went commando. However, Janders wears a metal chastity belt to go with his new chastity robes. Also, the chastity belt could be made to give him the illussion of a butt. Oh, and in a perfect world, everything leads back to Sparklebutt.

[beckaliz]

berelinde wrote...
I, on the other hand, am always up for talking about Anders's underwear shrine.

Oh, wow. I just had this horrible mental... thing... that was kind of like what the Knight Bus does around corners. I briefly wondered whether we were talking about Anders worshiping Hawke's underwear or us worshiping the Sparklebutt, and then my brain did it's extra-dimensional jump thingy. Does Anders even wear underwear? He always struck me as the kind of guy that likes to go commando. And then I remembered the line in Awakenings about waking up on a ship for Rivain in his smallclothes with a tattoo on his forehead, so yeah, I guess he does. And now I'm back at Sparklebutt.

In Awakenings he also talks about the robes being just for trysting. Being easy and quick to get past, no buckles or belts or anything, and hide in a corner and take care of business before the Templars notice you. 

Modifié par beckaliz, 12 juillet 2011 - 09:56 .

[beckaliz]

YamiSnuffles wrote...

Seeing as I have written and erased my reply five times now, I think I have to give up and just say I don't agree with people saying that Anders is obviously the dominant one in the relationship.

Aw, I'm not saying it's obvious. I'm just giving my reasons for why it comes across to me that way. It's no fun talking about things with people who agree with you completely. And highcastle and I... seem to see the exact same thing. o_o There's nothing to discuss there.

Ok, well it is kind of fun going "OMG WE R BOTH AGREED WE R AWSUM AMIRITE?  :O", but. ^^;

[SurelyForth]

Yeah, Anders might have more experience in certain areas (and my Hawke is more than happy to let him go in the bedroom) I don't see him as the dominant one in the relationship. And I also disagree that Justice is about power as much as it is trust and commitment. For Anders, Hawke agreeing to help him in that quest is the ultimate show of support and is, in my opinion, the main reason he doesn't get his upgraded robes until it's complete (the other reason is because it's ultimate proof of Anders Always Loved You).

Also, speaking of chastity robes, quick release systems and what not, F!Hawke/Anders art by DonnaAnna. Possibly NSFW on account of Hawke butt.

Modifié par SurelyForth, 12 juillet 2011 - 10:10 .

[Heidenreich]

YamiSnuffles wrote...

Seeing as I have written and erased my reply five times now, I think I have to give up and just say I don't agree with people saying that Anders is obviously the dominant one in the relationship.

*adorable quote snip about contemplating underpants and anders and sparklebutt*

Awakening Anders definitely went commando. However, Janders wears a metal chastity belt to go with his new chastity robes. Also, the chastity belt could be made to give him the illussion of a butt. Oh, and in a perfect world, everything leads back to Sparklebutt.

Oh, no I don't believe Anders is dominate in the relationship. If anything Hawke's personality wont allow it. That being said, he's deffinately topsies in the sack, or maybe in-complete-control bottems.. At least with a female hawke. I could almost see Male hawke as being the boss all the way around, but that's just me.


YAY for creepy stalker headcannon conversations about computer game characters sex-lives!

Speeking of (being a ) creepy stalker, Where's KoP when I need him!

Modifié par Heidenreich, 12 juillet 2011 - 10:11 .

[Amondra]

SurelyForth wrote...

Yeah, Anders might have more experience in certain areas (and my Hawke is more than happy to let him go in the bedroom) I don't see him as the dominant one in the relationship. And I also disagree that Justice is about power as much as it is trust and commitment. For Anders, Hawke agreeing to help him in that quest is the ultimate show of support and is, in my opinion, the main reason he doesn't get his upgraded robes until it's complete (the other reason is because it's ultimate proof of Anders Always Loved You).

Also, speaking of chastity robes, quick release systems and what not, F!Hawke/Anders art by DonnaAnna. possibly NSFW on account of Hawke butt.

I don't know why but I was completely drawn in by Anders robe falling off his shoulder, and thought it was the sexiest thing under the sun:pinched:

Of course Anders always loved you, also I think to think of those robes as his batmn robes, just saying.  And I agree with everything SurelyForth has said in the above.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...
The thing is, the whole dominant and submissive idea is much subtler than people imagine. The role of the rescuer or the protector is seen as dominant, and that's the aspect of "dominance" that appeals to me, rather than the control that is most commonly the first place the mind goes.

Protector, maybe (if it's not excessive). Rescuer? I'd find that unappealing if someone is looking for me to "save" or "rescue" them. Help them, sure.

And yea, I am trying to go back to this and avoid terrorism (and the butter thing that's going to make me puke).

EDIT: though I am guessing it's semantics at this point, as to what is dominance and submission outside of bed.
I am actually not sure whether I'd prefer perfectly equal, or me leading the relationship while being challenged once in a while.

Ahahaha, The funny thing is, the latter is one of the more popular forms of D/s relationship potrayed in literature. The *ahem* stern templar and the naughty apostate, for example.

Anyway, yeah I have a bit of an Utena complex. If someone's in a bad situation, I want to show up on a white horse and get them out of there. I knew that I liked rescuing people before I knew I liked boys. It's not required of course, but it is appealing.

I definitely don't think Hawke is always in a particular role, and I think all the romances are left fairly open to interpretation. It's only Fenris's relationship that implies some form of submission on his part, and even that can be subverted. I have him and Garret in a kind of co-dependent relationship, where Hawke relies on Fenris to protect him physically and to provide stability while Fenris relies on Hawke to make decisions. When it comes to Anders, though, there are so many ways to interpret what happens, and I can happily read fics where he is all over the spectrum.

Aside: A Dance With Dragons came out and I didn't notice? Well I was pretty busy yesterday but still. STILLLLLLL. Ugh. I just get back from the Farmer's market, and now I have to go out again, apparently. Also, I should have been rereading the first books, but instead I reread Jingo and Dirk Gently's Hollistic Detective Agency for some reason. I regret nothing.

[beckaliz]

This is where it comes down to levels of subtlety that may actually be interpreted differently within the Your Mileage May Vary category.... D: I'm partly interested in discussing this so I can refine my own position on the subject though.

At the moment I'm inclined to think that Anders is more dominant in the romantic part of their relationship, but more selective in other departments.