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[beckaliz]

My Correm, I have come to realize, is a reincarnation of an older character of mine. Especially with what I've recently written, I find this to be true. To a certain degree, anyway. Correm has accepted a lot of responsibility for his family and all that, whereas this other character was just plain irresponsible. He doesn't take things seriously, but it's a defense mechanism. Both to protect himself and the people around him. He has some anger issues that he's got buried. Being irreverent is a filler for him to replace the sensitivity that he has blocked off. He didn't even mean to flirt with Anders, it kind of happened because he is just that obtuse. The main reason a headstrong stubborn fellow like him ends up submissive in the romance element of his relationship with Anders is because he hasn't known what love really is. He put up his defenses so early, he's a bit emotionally stunted in some ways. Anders teaches him how to love outside the context of family. Also, he has to teach Correm about manloves. Because Correm is actually straight. He's got the If It's You, It's Okay thing going on. (Warning: tvtropes.) That's what was fun about his PT being my virgin PT. I didn't have any plans whatsoever going into the game on what I was going to do. I wasn't even thinking of LIs or anything. Then there was Anders and Correm had the "You and Karl? er... I'd never considered it derp derp" conversation with him.

So, time goes by and Correm actually learns how to open up. He always showed more sensitivity and kindness to his mother and sister, but even then he never really opened himself up, never confided in them. I wouldn't call the relationship codependent, but he grows to put more emotional trust in Anders after he finally does. This is mainly in private. He's never melancholy and never comes off as vulnerable in public. He is either irreverent or curious, but sometimes he will show a burst of anger. Like... at the end. I like to think of it as foreshadowing, when he says, "Usually you don't say things like that unless you're about to stab someone in the back." Except, y'know, reversing it.

He ignores Anders's warnings, not really thinking there's going to be any problem, and then he falls in love too strongly and doesn't exactly... remember them.

Modifié par beckaliz, 13 juillet 2011 - 05:59 .

[Amondra]

Wow, I have reading all this and I honestly don't think Thera and Anders relationship is that complicated, or well I don't have that much to say one it really.

Thera and Anders are both rather broken people, and it is just that, that hold them together and what brought them together. this unspoken understanding. As for who wears the pants. It's Thera, but that's just because she wears the plate Seriously though I don't have written them in a way that gives it to one or the other...okay maybe Justice can have the pants.

They are basically two people who want to be loved, and are terrified at what they are, and they find someone who will love then for their flaws too. Though Thera is the tougher of the two...that woman just doesn't know when to call it quits -.-

She has an idea of what Anders and Justice are up too, but doesn't do much because she can't say she disapproves. (she has her own can of worms with the chantry being an ex-Templar.)

[Arquen]

Damn I missed my chance to jump in on the fenris discussion, lmao.

It is crazy personal the way people rp their hawkes. I mean all you get in the sexual relation department is a fade to black scene. People aren't the same during sex that is just common knowledge. A dominant person can be submissive. It can be give or take it can be submissive person becomes dominant. In the end I think it breaks down to a personal preferance and its difficult to judge the relationship as a whole as far as dom/sub people.

Also, for some reason I see hawke and Anders as a codependent or maybe symbiotic relationship. Then again you can also see it as Anders being the leech for hawke and making it more unhealthy than it already is.

[Amondra]

ElleMullineux wrote...

Well, seeing as everyone is airing their Hawkes... >.>
Hawkette is a rogue who's struggled with wanting independence and a stable home life whilst growing up, and after Malcolm's death she entered the army (I have her as old as the game will allow for) to support her family so she has a couple of years of experience before Ostagaar. Had things not gone all blighty I imagine she would have worked her way up the ranks and been very happy.
So, tough BAMF Hawkette gets to be destroyed by everything that happens, but still keeps her game face.
The way I see her is that when things go bad, when there is a crisis, she is at her best. She can run on instincts and training and get things done. Which is why she'll take on every job going, every request for help, anything to keep busy. Because when she stops that's when she starts thinking.
She doesn't have the dog, and Beth dies, Gamlen she dislikes, and the cousin could just be a stranger. By the end of Act 2 she's the only Hawke left. She's also rivalmanced Fenris and promptly realised what a horrible idea that was, Isabela made it clear it was a one time thing, so Anders is left as the only one that seems to care about her. and has always been there for her.
And which is why in the endgame she doesn't kill Anders, doesn't even consider it, she's furious that he's dumped this mess in her lap. If she's going to have to fight for the mages, then he is damn well going to help.
The dynamic of the relationship is that they both lie, they both have secrets, which is why she just accepts his secretiveness as something he needs. And why she doesn't take him on missions which she thinks he'll disagree with.

I get terribly frustrated with the number of Sue-ish f!Hawkes out there in fanfic. Angst I can handle, angst I like, simpering, mewling little girls who think that love will heal everything, not so much.

I love your Hawke Her and Wil are like my Hawkette heroes <3  So is Saoirse.  Those are some good Female Hawkes there.  Women who are tougher then nails.

[ademska]

Arquen wrote...

Also, for some reason I see hawke and Anders as a codependent or maybe symbiotic relationship.

i see them as this super crazy intense relationship that slowly amalgamates into an amorphous blob of hypercodepency and bat**** and feelings

kind of like this


it is my favorite ever

Modifié par ademska, 13 juillet 2011 - 09:11 .

[Arquen]

Why did the image of jabba the hut wearing a pink festooned with ruffles dress come to my mind when I saw that pic. Lmao... blob of hypercodependency...perhaps though I see Anders being more dependent on hawke than hawke on Anders.

[elenilote]

Oh? We are sharing our Hawkes now? Well I have several incarnations, depending who they romance... 
but the one relevant to this thread is not all mine, it's Ashy's PC Danny that I have adopted - sortof. 

Danny is a mage, snarky and witty but secretly insecure about himself. Danny's speciality is fire, and he is happy to leave all the healing to Anders (hard work, I tell you, keeping Danny out of trouble)

And these two have the sweetest romance ever, in a very literal sense too as Danny has a terrible sweet tooth that Anders does his best to indulge...

And that's the lovey dovey part.

Then the other side is that I love writing stories where Anders gets... roughed up, quite a bit. 
Here's the link to the latest one: Given and Denied, VERY NSFW. 

[Heidenreich]

Arquen wrote...

Why did the image of jabba the hut wearing a pink festooned with ruffles dress come to my mind when I saw that pic. Lmao... blob of hypercodependency...perhaps though I see Anders being more dependent on hawke than hawke on Anders.

I dunno about that, any Hawkettes that eventually end up with anders that are mine are always the desperately clingy sort. Though that could be because when it comes right down to it, I'm the desperately clingy sort, at least with my huband. Though not at all to the degree my Hawkette's can develope. It always feels like the more downward the Anders-spiral goes, the more desperate my Hawke's get to prove that she can "save him with love". Grose, isn't it? ;p

[berelinde]

ElleMullineux wrote...

I have to say, I'm fond of a co-dependent dynamic for a Hawke that sticks around after the end game. Although if anyone can present me with an explaination for why a non-dependent Hawke would stick it out I'd love to know. <--- sincere.

My favorite Hawke, Iain, is definitely codependent to an embarrassing extent, but he has trouble maintaining healthy relationships with anyone who isn't Varric. Even there, Varric is the one keeping it real for Iain. So yeah, this is definitely an unhealthily codependent relationship that only works because Iain needs Anders as much as Anders needs Iain. But then, that's probably the definitition of a codependent relationship, so don't mind me. I blame the heat. The rest of my Hawkes are much more independent. Alina, the blond mage I posted as a top a long time ago, was initially drawn to Anders for superficial, highly physical reasons, but she stayed because she had fallen in love with him, she wanted to help him, and she believed in what he was trying to accomplish. She recognized his emotional and psychological collapse for what it was and she was not pleased to see it, but she was healthy enough herself not to get too caught up in it. Liam, my templar warrior, wanted to help Anders through tough love. That was the rivalmance game. I've had other Hawkes who had other reasons for hanging in there, but Iain is about the only one who's codependent.

[Alyzabeth]

Everyone and their obsession with Anders..

[beckaliz]

ademska wrote...



it is my favorite ever

WHAT IS THIS I DON'T EVEN

Modifié par beckaliz, 13 juillet 2011 - 12:15 .

[SurelyForth]

ElleMullineux wrote...

I have to say, I'm fond of a co-dependent dynamic for a Hawke that sticks around after the end game. Although if anyone can present me with an explaination for why a non-dependent Hawke would stick it out I'd love to know. <--- sincere.

If your Hawke is the sort of Hawke who believes that what he did was probably necessary and keeps him alive so he can keep fighting because (in their opinion) he's way more useful in that capacity...I can definitely see their relationship not being co-dependent.

For example, my Hawke isn't one of those that views Anders as all she has left. He's the most important person in her life, but not by much. Isabela, Aveline and Varric are just as much her family as he is, so that's not something that she takes into consideration when deciding whether he should live or die. If she weighs anything, it's whether or not he can live with himself if he's spared, not whether or not she can live without him.

So after they get out of Kirkwall, they have a purpose that's larger than they are and they stay together when  they can because, hey, she loves the man, but she also knows that their purpose is larger than they are and, if circumstances take them apart, she'll certainly survive and she'll leave him with people she knows will watch over him.

I mean...does that work? 

Alyzabeth wrote...

Everyone and their obsession with Anders..

I would expand your remarks unless you want to end up being immortalized (for the week) in the thread title...

Modifié par SurelyForth, 13 juillet 2011 - 12:34 .

[beckaliz]

ElleMullineux wrote...

I have to say, I'm fond of a co-dependent dynamic for a Hawke that sticks around after the end game. Although if anyone can present me with an explaination for why a non-dependent Hawke would stick it out I'd love to know. <--- sincere.

Aside from just an attitude of "ok you blew up the chantry and lied to me but the chantry blowing up is kinda awesome, let's do this thing" on Hawke's part? I think it's feasible, I just don't think that most players can really wrap their head around that kind of terrorism in that kind of way. RL =/= Thedas, ergo their priorities are vastly different. And growing up with such a strong figure like Malcolm as a father, I think a mage!Hawke could come to really hate Elthina for her ineptitude at letting the crazy dog-bitcz Meredith off her leash.

I don't know if there are players out there who actually enjoy watching the chantry explode. It can be approved of if a person thinks it's a necessary act to get things moving, but approving of the act itself is a different matter I think. There's a thin line, but I think it's there. And accepting the lie? I mean, the lie was to protect Hawke from taking the heat, so it wasn't a malicious lie.

I haven't done my f!mage!Hawke x Anders friendmance PT yet but this is how I think her perspective will be, which is different from just her being also just as revolutionary as he is. She'll see the chantry thing as lamentable, but regrettably necessary even though she'll be mad at him for it. Her perspective at the end will be, "I love him. I agree with his cause, and I think he can do some good, but he definitely needs a babysitter."

Is this what you're looking for in an answer?

Modifié par beckaliz, 13 juillet 2011 - 12:40 .

[YamiSnuffles]

My canon Hawke, Adelynne, is the only Andersmancer I have so far. I don't think she stayed with him for dependent reasons. Hmm. Let's see if I can explain her relationship with Anders. Oh, and let's see if I can manage it without turning this into a giant wall of text. I haven't given her a chance to really flex her legs in a fic, so it'll be hard not to turn this into a biography of all things Adelynne Hawke.

Basically, she already had her head on pretty straight by the time she got to Kirkwall. She knew how to care for her family and she knew how to make friends. Between friends and family, she had a pretty complete life. So when she got into a relationship with Anders, he was never her whole world. He filled her with a new passion and drive but she wasn't doing it all for him. She was fighting for her sister who had been taken to the Circle. She was fighting to make sure other families could be free the way her family had been. She was never taking up Anders cause- she was fighting by his side for something they both believed in.

She was strong on her own, but she had an extra strength from her friends. So even when her mother was killed and Anders started to fall apart, she could mostly keep it together. She still had something to fight for and was driven to fight even harder. If things got too hard, she had Aveline, Varric, and Isabela. If she needed to just vent and rage, she could spar with Fenris.

By the time the Chantry went up, she'd had some time to mentally prepare herself to some extent. She'd known Anders was going to do something and had done what she could to help him, in faith that it would bring them closer to the goal they'd been working for. She was furious for all the people he'd killed and all that would die in the battle to come. At the same time, she knew she had helped and knew that she had wanted a revolution.

So she stood by him. He would work his hardest to help make sure all those lives weren't lost in vain. Plus, she did love him. She saw that there was something wonderful and special about him. He might be lost, but there was so much more he could do before he was completely gone.

...

Okay, so I lied and that still ended up really long. But I swear, I cut out half a dozen paragraphs or so. Hopefully it still makes sense. Since I refreshed the page before posting this, I'll also say that what I'm trying to say is pretty much what Surely just said in a more precise fashion.

[SurelyForth]

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...

ElleMullineux wrote...

I have to say, I'm fond of a co-dependent dynamic for a Hawke that sticks around after the end game. Although if anyone can present me with an explaination for why a non-dependent Hawke would stick it out I'd love to know. <--- sincere.

It sounds horrible, but my Hawke was actually kind of relieved when the Chantry went up. Between the mage/templar tensions, the rumors that Meredith had called for a RoA, the disturbing things she's picked up about Kirkwall's hellmouth status and Anders' very obviously planning something bad, she knew that Kirkwall was going to hell very, very soon. She knew it, she dreaded it, and felt powerless to stop it. When the Chantry exploded she was relieved that finally, she could do something about it, her first instinct being to protect the people she cares about and taking her sister under her wing again. Because of that, she wasn't even very angry with Anders -  or, she was after the battle, but that anger didn't really carry much of the sting it would have if she had gotten angry immediately. It was more resigned than anything.

This, too! I actually cut that from my post, but it's very, very true. For all that she's called the Champion, Hawke doesn't really have any authority and isn't able to do that much to make the situation in Kirkwall better. After the Chantry goes up, the rules are pretty much up with them and she can do what she needs to do...no more trying to find balance, or appeal to anyone's sense of justice. She can fight and snap orders and do something.

Modifié par SurelyForth, 13 juillet 2011 - 01:30 .

[YamiSnuffles]

SurelyForth wrote...

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...

ElleMullineux wrote...

I have to say, I'm fond of a co-dependent dynamic for a Hawke that sticks around after the end game. Although if anyone can present me with an explaination for why a non-dependent Hawke would stick it out I'd love to know. <--- sincere.

It sounds horrible, but my Hawke was actually kind of relieved when the Chantry went up. Between the mage/templar tensions, the rumors that Meredith had called for a RoA, the disturbing things she's picked up about Kirkwall's hellmouth status and Anders' very obviously planning something bad, she knew that Kirkwall was going to hell very, very soon. She knew it, she dreaded it, and felt powerless to stop it. When the Chantry exploded she was relieved that finally, she could do something about it, her first instinct being to protect the people she cares about and taking her sister under her wing again. Because of that, she wasn't even very angry with Anders -  or, she was after the battle, but that anger didn't really carry much of the sting it would have if she had gotten angry immediately. It was more resigned than anything.

This, too! I actually cut that from my post, but it's very, very true. For all that she's called the Champion, Hawke doesn't really have any authority and isn't able to do that much to make the situation in Kirkwall better. After the Chantry goes up, the rules are pretty much up with them and she can do what she needs to do...no more trying to find balance, or appeal to anyone's sense of justice. She can fight and snap orders and do something.

Oh yes, this. It's one of the things I trimmed out but my Hawke was always trying to do something to help. She quickly realized she couldn't do much if anything. She could make minor changes at best, even after getting rich in the Deep Roads and then becoming Champion. Anders changed all that. She finally had the power to really do something.

[Arquen]

Throughout the whole game Hawke is doing the best he/she can to better her/himself and to develop a life in Kirkwall for better or worse.

My sig pretty much sums up what I thought when the chantry went up. I wasn't all sad crying "omg Elthina nooooo," but I knew what would happen next and I *facepalmed.*

The boy just started a war. A MASSIVE war in that. A society will never be the same war. Hawke has been rather focused and single minded through the whole game -- deep roads to get more power/riches/take care of self and family. Arishok to preserve home and keep peace. Mage/Templar side because someone FORCED him/her to choose sides. It's like what is Hawke supposed to do now. I mean, I would like to think Hawke can now "act" on ... something, but really besides now being on the run for his/her life and literally being blamed and hunted how is he/she going to exact change now?

It is like a whirlwind effect and Hawke just gets swept up in it depending on the side you pick. Honestly, I felt like my Hawke had failed somehow. Like.. "well.. great... now what am I supposed to do? Gotta leave my home, join the rebellion (or not), preserve peace where I can (or not), and save who I can (or not). In the downfall of it all Hawke and the Warden are both absent. The world is going to hell in a handbasket, people are dying, fighting, anarchy is breaking loose. Orders are breaking up. I mean I just don't see how Hawke can be like "Yes! Now is my chance to do something!" a midst all that chaos that was forced on him/her.

I can see it if your going to be Anders love interest and just run with mages and go "F you all mAN.. we FReeEE bishes!" still though, what action is Hawke going to take to "do something?" besides just running away with Anders and sharing his ideals. Hawke could have always done that even without the chantry going booom.

2 cents.... and because I'm being a devil's advocate >.<

[SurelyForth]

Arquen wrote...

I can see it if your going to be Anders love interest and just run with mages and go "F you all mAN.. we FReeEE bishes!" still though, what action is Hawke going to take to "do something?" besides just running away with Anders and sharing his ideals. Hawke could have always done that even without the chantry going booom.

2 cents.... and because I'm being a devil's advocate >.<

Without knowing what happens next, I can't say with any certainty, but personally? I think there will be enough struggles all over for Hawke to get involved in. Displaced mages will need help, either learning how to survive or just defending themselves. One of my headcanon priorities is getting to Ferelden ASAP to meet with King Alistair/The Warden to explain what happened before the rumors can take hold. Most people head to Rivain or Tevinter, but I like the idea of Ferelden having a role to play, and I feel like the fact that Alistair and Anora seem to be more practical when it comes to mages could come in handy and having Alistair show up in Act 3 all "sympathetic to mages!" made my Hawke think he might be willing to help...maybe.

[esper]

Untill we know what Hawke does, my headcanon is that Hawke gather as much as the Kirkwall mages she can find on the way out.(There are more survivors when you side with the mages), and then I guess she travels the land and start picking up as many mages as she can to form some sort of army - while looking for a place they can use as a stronghold/fort/hq/hide. I also imagine she sends for a letter to Fenryel in Tevinter to see if there are anyone there who might be willing to support with gold and lyrium. She can't go to Tevinter herself, because lot of demon-summoners means very angry Anders. I am not sure she dares to risk Ferelden, at least not until it is stronger and Orlais weaker. At least that is what she is doing until we get the expansion/DA3 and hopefully gets to know Hawke's fate.
Personally I wish that bioware would stop their disappering hero act, it is not funny.

[YamiSnuffles]

I'm not the best person to argue this because I haven't put as much thought into it as some. But where I was coming from at least is my canon Hawke had been wanting to free mages. She wanted other mages to at least have the same chance her family did. Alone she really didn't have power to do anything though. Anders did something she never would have dared and it does throw the world into chaos, but it creates a chance. The Circles are rising up and rebelling against the Chantry. The world is changing, whether Hawke wants it to or not. She can either sit and be horrified by it all or she can jump in and help shape that change in whatever way she's able.

Hawke is also in a good place to be a uniting factor for the rebellion. We know at least that all the Circles rise up and they use a mage siding Hawke as a rallying cry. Hawke is in a good position to rally the troops, in a way. She can give them hope that they could, just maybe, win this thing. Or at least survive the war.

And, as Surely said, Hawke can find allies. It's not like she's in this alone with Anders. My canon Hawke has seen King Alistair show up and openly opposed Meredith. Beyond that, Anders personally knows the Queen of Ferelden in that playthrough. She was his commander and closest friend at some point. From that, it's not too much of a stretch to believe they might be able to make Ferelden an ally in all of this.