57020 réponses à ce sujet

[maxernst]

I think the difficulty is not with Hawke having lots of sex, but having it with people who are otherwise close to him. I do think it's wrong to have casual flings with friends or close associates unless they are totally clear that that's what it is. Isabela seems like she would be up for "friends with benefits" but I don't think the other three are. Now, if Hawke is genuinely interested and finds that it just doesn't work out, that's a different thing. But from a roleplay standpoint, is it really likely that someone would be genuinely attracted to all three of them?

I've also never romanced anyone in ME, partly because the romanceable characters don't appeal to that much (give me Joker or Dr. Chakwas and we'll talk), but partly because it felt inappropriate. I'm a lot less experimental than most people, partly because I don't play through very many runtrhoughs of games and I won't pursue a romance unless it feels in character for the character involved.

[berelinde]

Regarding the timeline, I'd have to say that it's anybody's guess. Consider Anders's own story.

- The Blight ends.
- Anders meets the Warden. Awakening happens.
- Anders accompanies the Warden to confront the architect OR either dies in or survives the seige on Vigil Keep.
- Depending on your epilogue:
----He faked his death, goes out, rejoins the Wardens somewhere, bumps into Justice again, etc.
----He survives the seige, runs off with some well-known pirate lady (not necessarily Isabela), bumps into Justice again, etc.
----He survives the seige, remains a Warden "for life," maintains contact with Justice, etc.

When you consider that the "etc." metioned above involves the recruitment of a templar Warden to babysit Anders, the events of his short story, and the time spent traveling to and establishing himself in Kirkwall, that must have been a very, very busy four-to-six months for him.

So it might be better to say "It took however long your headcanon said it took" and let it go at that.

[ipgd]

Arquen wrote...

Yet he doesn't exactly seem to pine over Hawke or even miss hawke that much afterwards.

He... kinda does. If you romance anyone else, he gets very jealous and attempts to suggest himself as an alternative when you go into the sewers for the Justice quest.

If you sleep with both Merrill and Isabela, there's also a banter where he pretty much explicitly says he is jelly:

Anders: Hawke was a fool to let you move in. You'll only betray him/her. That's all your kind can do.
Merrill: Why do you only do this to me? Are you jealous? You never get upset about Hawke and Isabela.
Anders: You can't really get jealous because someone sleeps with Isabela. It's just...understood.
Anders: She's like a side dish. She comes with the meal.
Isabela: Only if it's a good meal.

He does this regardless of whether you've shown him any romantic attention at all, which seems to suggest he's got a bad case of single target sexuality. His cause consumes his time, but I wouldn't really say that's a sufficient substitute for human companionship or that he ever gets over Hawke.

[FieryDove]

ipgd wrote...

10 years is including Varric's interrogation. The actual game only takes place over 7.

Are you sure? No nvm, doesn't matter I believe you. That just feels like a cheap breadroll tacked onto a side dish of  blarney. Yes, food. Must go have breakfast.

[ipgd]

FieryDove wrote...

Are you sure? No nvm, doesn't matter I believe you. That just feels like a cheap breadroll tacked onto a side dish of  blarney. Yes, food. Must go have breakfast.

Yes. Gaider has a post outright stating that is what it is, but it's obvious enough on its own that I'm not going to bother to dig it up.

[FieryDove]

ipgd wrote...

Yes. Gaider has a post outright stating that is what it is, but it's obvious enough on its own that I'm not going to bother to dig it up.

I don't see it as obvious...what happened to "The game spans 10 years". I don't consider Varric talking...a game. But whatever.

[ipgd]

FieryDove wrote...

I don't see it as obvious...what happened to "The game spans 10 years". I don't consider Varric talking...a game. But whatever.

The story is part of the game. Varric's interrogation is part of the story. The story spans 10 years.

[Arquen]

ipgd wrote...

Arquen wrote...

Yet he doesn't exactly seem to pine over Hawke or even miss hawke that much afterwards.

He... kinda does. If you romance anyone else, he gets very jealous and attempts to suggest himself as an alternative when you go into the sewers for the Justice quest.

If you sleep with both Merrill and Isabela, there's also a banter where he pretty much explicitly says he is jelly:

Anders: Hawke was a fool to let you move in. You'll only betray him/her. That's all your kind can do.
Merrill: Why do you only do this to me? Are you jealous? You never get upset about Hawke and Isabela.
Anders: You can't really get jealous because someone sleeps with Isabela. It's just...understood.
Anders: She's like a side dish. She comes with the meal.
Isabela: Only if it's a good meal.

He does this regardless of whether you've shown him any romantic attention at all, which seems to suggest he's got a bad case of single target sexuality. His cause consumes his time, but I wouldn't really say that's a sufficient substitute for human companionship or that he ever gets over Hawke.

He seems to get jealous regardless if you romance HIM or not, though. Part of that whole "he always loved you." I agree, I think he always does, but when Hawke remained unattached after literally breaking his heart it was all "meh, I am the cause of mages.. what of it." So, maybe he is just happy you aren't with someone else. Maybe he is still pining over you or maybe he just can't stand to see you with someone else, but when you are alone he is fine with it. Because he might have another chance? Because your alone and therefore he's all "haha, you couldn't find anyone better.." I don't know, but I still think it's funny that way. I can't decide if I find his jealousy endearing or not. To me it seems rather selfish. Talk about hypocritical line when you romance Fenris and in the sewers he's all "surely you want someone more open minded." Fenris totally calls him out on his hypocrisy too. I just see it as more , like "why do you care, Anders?" Then he insults Isabela in that banter, and insults Merrill all because of jealousy. So what, he can take Hawke for himself and then have them be second place in his life. It bothers me a bit. How he seems to want Hawke so badly, and yet when it comes right down to it in the end he still has to do what he has to do regardless of how it will turn out for them. I just don't know whether to find that charming or creepy. *shrug*

[tuffet37]

I just finished doing the templar ending with a rivalmanced Anders, is it a glitch that Varric doesn't mention Anders who was spared by Hawke?

On the topic of the other romances, I have done them all at least once. The first time I romanced Fenris my Hawke took it that he broke up with her when he walked out (I hadn't read any spoilers so had no idea he would come back.) so I lost some sympathy for him.

[ipgd]

tuffet37 wrote...

I just finished doing the templar ending with a rivalmanced Anders, is it a glitch that Varric doesn't mention Anders who was spared by Hawke?

The common assumption seems to be that he kills himself. No definitive word from the developers on whether it's intended or not, though.

[maxernst]

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...

tuffet37 wrote...

I just finished doing the templar ending with a rivalmanced Anders, is it a glitch that Varric doesn't mention Anders who was spared by Hawke?
 

The game hints that Anders kills himself in the rivalry romance ending, so this could be intended.

Is that true even if Hawke sides with the mages?  I can see why you might assume that a Hawke rivalling Anders would side with the Templars, but it needn't be the case.  My Hawke sided with the mages, but viewed Anders as an abomination...he didn't romance him, though.

[beckaliz]

ipgd wrote...

10 years is including Varric's interrogation. The actual game only takes place over 7.

*salute*

[Sinaxi]

SurelyForth wrote...

ipgd wrote...

I'm not really sure why Fenris is the one who gets all the sympathy. He, like, pulls a textbook Hit It and Quit It. If anything, I'd think Hawke would have more right to be upset than he does.

Yeah, I think Fenris really steps into himself and I don't feel too badly for him in the aftermath and there's no real sense of him being hurt that Hawke moves on.

And Isabela is totes ok with the one night of fun. And, like Fenris, her romance doesn't really "hit" until Act 3 so neither are really in a position to be hurt until that point.

Anders and Merrill are totally different stories, and I felt like a massive ****heel just doing the Merrill hit it and quit it for science.

Yeaah, this is sort of how I feel. I do hate the fact that Bioware is like "uh, you can only romance people in act 2" and that it does make it seem like you just go, bam, bam, bam, in regards of the people but I prefer to think of it a bit more spread out. I always kind of thought the parts where we played took place over the course of a year, it just seems likely given the fact that you do have to travel a lot to several places out of the way...but eh, I guess it is just a month or a few weeks. In my head I always viewed it as a year but I guess that's not correct.

Neither Isabela OR Fenris actually express how much they care about you, Fenris does a bit more...but if you're going to move on with someone after Fenris I do prefer doing his Questioning Beliefs quest first, since when he comes to talk to you at your house it's much more sudden and Hawke and him getting together just sort of happens...(oh and, that scene is so freaking messed up. so many animation glitches lol) like it's just kind of in the heat of the moment. Almost sort of "angry" even if you aren't in a rivalmance. Yes, it's sad, he remembers his life before but he pretty much just leaves you in the middle of the night, in the most possible CRYPTIC way EVER, that your Hawke hardly even knows what's going on. And it takes the guy THREE years to ever work up the courage to even say something to you about it?! I mean, seriously, I love Fenris and all and feel bad for him - but I feel way worse for Hawke who basically feels like she was just there for conveinent sex (not that she wasn't willing, but like I said I view it much more as a heat of the moment kind of thing).

Isabela seriously just wants to have some fun with you, and you can even talk to her about her past relationships and then tell her that you guess she's right - love is too messy, and she's totally cool with it all she doesn't do the whole sad face when she walks out.

Then there is Anders and Merrill...who pretty much express their absolute and complete devotion to you which is generally reciprocated some way by the Hawke dialogue choices, which means you are basically outright LYING to their face! Then you tell them to GTFO, and the saddest puppy faces ensue. I have nooo idea how people could go through with those relationships and then say hahaha, LATA! To me it's very different than Fenris and Isabela.

He seems to get jealous regardless if you romance HIM or not, though.
Part of that whole "he always loved you." I agree, I think he always
does, but when Hawke remained unattached after literally breaking his
heart it was all "meh, I am the cause of mages.. what of it." So, maybe
he is just happy you aren't with someone else. Maybe he is still pining
over you or maybe he just can't stand to see you with someone else, but
when you are alone he is fine with it. Because he might have another
chance? Because your alone and therefore he's all "haha, you couldn't
find anyone better.." I don't know, but I still think it's funny that
way. I can't decide if I find his jealousy endearing or not. To me it
seems rather selfish. Talk about hypocritical line when you romance
Fenris and in the sewers he's all "surely you want someone more open
minded." Fenris totally calls him out on his hypocrisy too. I just see
it as more ,
like "why do you care, Anders?" Then he insults Isabela in that banter,
and insults Merrill all because of jealousy. So what, he can take Hawke
for himself and then have them be second place in his life. It bothers
me a bit. How he seems to want Hawke so badly, and yet when it comes
right down to it in the end he still has to do what he has to do
regardless of how it will turn out for them. I just don't know whether
to find that charming or creepy. *shrug*

Yes, I do believe Anders pretty much fell for Hawke HARD when they first met. But...after listening to how Anders talks to Hawke, then after all that happens at the manor she tells him "lol, um, I'm not as serious about this" even though 5 minutes before she is telling him "Oh, I've never felt this way about anyone" (based on dialogue choices) and then that "You're not going to lose me" It's just like blatant lying and actual whoring around.

I don't see HOW Anders could want to possibly come back from that, it's the biggest slap in the face. I think he still cares for Hawke, but to begin with he was afraid of committing to Hawke because of his situation so yes - he does have the mage cause, but that doesn't mean it hurts any less for him or he's not necessarily "pining" after Hawke. But, after blatantly lying to the guy and breaking up with him like that I don't see why the hell he would even want to be with Hawke - but yes, he does still care about them. I don't think it's some kind of "Haha, you aren't happy!" Because I personally don't see Anders as being that cold when it comes to Hawke. He IS a jealous guy, there's no denying that but I don't think that's any reason to suggest he loves Hawke less or it's just like him being a selfish ******. I definitely see Anders as someone that can be fairly posessive when it comes right down to it, especially towards the whole Fenris/Hawke thing..considering he can't stand the guy. I also don't completely view his intervention in the Justice quest as being pure jealousy (which yes, it *mostly* is) but I honestly believe Anders sees Fenris and Merrill as dangerous...yes yes, I know, pot calling kettle black...but Anders mind is constantly moving, constantly going, I don't think he really knows how to process his thoughts in general, especially when it comes to Hawke.

But yes, Anders will do what he needs to do and I don't think he's willing to sacrifice Hawke for it but in the long run he has a goal and that goal must be accomplished - both for all Mages, and both because he has a presence in his mind that WILL NOT let him forget it under any circumstances. I don't think this means he loves Hawke less, but ending what he views as imprisonment and slavery that has been going on for thousand years is more important. And in a way, I kind of agree with him.

[Sinaxi]

Hmm, I just looked at the Anders thread FAQ on the front of this thread and saw the post where Gaider says if you killed Anders he's definitely dead - I suppose this sort of rules out another game where the protagonist is Hawke. At least in my eyes it kind of does, not that I was really expecting them to make another game from their POV but it just seems like they would given DA2 left on such a cliffhanger and there is mention made of both Hawke and the Warden.

I'm just assuming he'd have a bigger role in the next game if you kept him alive but eh. I also kind of hated how he is like "In this case, particularly since Anders was fully willing to die, I don't think having him live after all that would be very cool." And "Then don't kill him. He'll still be alive, even though he wanted to die. Problem solved."

Huh, guess I just..don't agree with killing Anders. I think I read something where Hepler said she thinks it's much more poetic to let him live since it's way harder on him knowing he'll have to live with what he did. That, and, just killing him right there seems so useless to me. If he is going to start all of this, then he should damn well be around to finish it or die trying to.

Andd, double post!

Modifié par Tidra, 20 juillet 2011 - 05:33 .

[Patriciachr34]

berelinde wrote...

Regarding the timeline, I'd have to say that it's anybody's guess. Consider Anders's own story.

- The Blight ends.
- Anders meets the Warden. Awakening happens.
- Anders accompanies the Warden to confront the architect OR either dies in or survives the seige on Vigil Keep.
- Depending on your epilogue:
----He faked his death, goes out, rejoins the Wardens somewhere, bumps into Justice again, etc.
----He survives the seige, runs off with some well-known pirate lady (not necessarily Isabela), bumps into Justice again, etc.
----He survives the seige, remains a Warden "for life," maintains contact with Justice, etc.

When you consider that the "etc." metioned above involves the recruitment of a templar Warden to babysit Anders, the events of his short story, and the time spent traveling to and establishing himself in Kirkwall, that must have been a very, very busy four-to-six months for him.

So it might be better to say "It took however long your headcanon said it took" and let it go at that.

I recently both completed Witch Hunt and started a new play through and found a couple of clues to the timeline.  During Witch Hunt, the mages in the Ferelden circle are talking about how Kirkwall is not letting any refugees in.  So at that time our Hawke is probably still finishing his/her year of servitude.  Also, when speaking with Varric about the warden in Act 1, he mentions that the warden has "recently" arrived with a group of  refugees.  So, Anders does not arrive until after Hawke has finished her year of servitude (6 -9 months after With Hunt).

As an addendum, knowing a few details about the DLC made me think the Tevinter statue was foreshadowing Legacy.  When she is distressed, she mentions the prison has weakened and that the darkness is closing in.  Also, there are those unusual tears in the veil in teh circle basement.  It just got me thinking.

[maxernst]

Anders may be dead, but there's no reason to assume Justice is. For all we know, Justice may simply be able to animate Anders corpse after you kill him, or posess some other mage...hmmm...maybe a good reason not to kill Anders.

[berelinde]

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...

Tidra wrote...


I'm just assuming he'd have a bigger role in the next game if you kept him alive but eh. I also kind of hated how he is like "In this case, particularly since Anders was fully willing to die, I don't think having him live after all that would be very cool." And "Then don't kill him. He'll still be alive, even though he wanted to die. Problem solved."

In the event of a rivalry ending, where Justice assumes Direct Control, I'd say that this is true. Friendship, not so much. He says that he expects to have to pay for what he did with his life, but is positively giddy when you decide spare him and then sides with the mages. So I don't fully agree with DG on this one.

Yeah, when it comes to that quote in Tidra's post, I have to walk away from the monitor. IMO, it's the single most dismissive thing DG has posted. To me, it reads as taking sides at best, utter disregard and moderate disrespect toward players who did elect not to increase the game's body count at worst. IIRC, his posts on the subject since that date have not touched the same nerve, so perhaps the tone was the result of post-release burnout. For a while there, a lot of the BioWare people were pretty irritable on the forums.

But yeah, I wouldn't count on seeing Anders in DA3.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

I speak Dev, and there's one thing that's pretty consistent in DG's posts: often the context of the original thread is very important. He's usually reacting to a specific suggestion or theme that's been repeated in the thread, and often someone he's responding to has been particularly shrill. Divorced from the statements, his quotes are easy to interpret as one-sided, when he was actually playing 'devil's advocate' in a particular thread.

All I gather from that particular comment is that if you kill Anders, he should stay dead, which I agree with. Whether or not to kill Anders seems to be one of the defining moments of DA2, and to have even that not matter would be pretty strange. Furthermore, I think it indicates nothing more than that in cases where Hawke kills Anders, Anders wants to die. I think the point was also that, at that specific moment when he's on the box, he wanted to die... whether or not you convince him life is worth living after depends on the Hawke.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 20 juillet 2011 - 08:51 .

[ipgd]

berelinde wrote...

Yeah, when it comes to that quote in Tidra's post, I have to walk away from the monitor. IMO, it's the single most dismissive thing DG has posted. To me, it reads as taking sides at best, utter disregard and moderate disrespect toward players who did elect not to increase the game's body count at worst. IIRC, his posts on the subject since that date have not touched the same nerve, so perhaps the tone was the result of post-release burnout. For a while there, a lot of the BioWare people were pretty irritable on the forums.

He was responding specifically to theories about Anders coming back from the dead after having been killed, not people who choose to not kill him.

And I agree, having Anders come back from the dead for players who have killed him would be very cheap.

Modifié par ipgd, 20 juillet 2011 - 08:56 .

[Giggles_Manically]

I just dont see the "Anders always loves Hawke" thing in my current game.
A rivaling aggressive Hawke.

Jeebus not even Alistair and Morrigan were this harsh on each other.

[Heidenreich]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

I just dont see the "Anders always loves Hawke" thing in my current game.
A rivaling aggressive Hawke.

Jeebus not even Alistair and Morrigan were this harsh on each other.

Just wait till act 3. It's there.