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[SurelyForth]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

The Anders thread is contentious, always at war with itself, filled with self hate, but easily able to fall deeply in love with whoever shows it kindness... and even with people who argue, as long as they do so civilly. It's too smart for its own good, obsessed with history and wall-of-text manifestos, and devoted to the cause of mage justice... while at the same time, sometimes it wishes it could just be Awakening Anders again. It loves Ser Pounce, and Pie, and Justice-as-he-was. There's much left unknown, but little unsaid. It's also completely insane, but insane in a way never before seen. The Anders thread knows of Anders' imperfections and seeks to explore them, crack them open, map them entirely.

This was way too long to be the new thread title, but damned if I didn't consider it.


by emmav

Modifié par SurelyForth, 21 juillet 2011 - 09:47 .

[Sialater]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Metaphorically, the differences between this thread and the Fenris thread are very similar to the differences between Anders and Fenris.

The Anders thread is contentious, always at war with itself, filled with self hate, but easily able to fall deeply in love with whoever shows it kindness... and even with people who argue, as long as they do so civilly. It's too smart for its own good, obsessed with history and wall-of-text manifestos, and devoted to the cause of mage justice... while at the same time, sometimes it wishes it could just be Awakening Anders again. It loves Ser Pounce, and Pie, and Justice-as-he-was. There's much left unknown, but little unsaid. It's also completely insane, but insane in a way never before seen. The Anders thread knows of Anders' imperfections and seeks to explore them, crack them open, map them entirely.

The Fenris thread is calm, happy, and devoted. If anyone attacks it, or even subtly counters its fundamental disposition, it will react impulsively, defensively. It is very pretty, if a bit gruff and unfocused when conflict arises. When there is no conflict, there is wine, and beauty, and single-minded love. The Fenris thread enjoys the little, forgivable, quirky flaws but does not want to map the deeper shadows that may or may not lie below the surface. They would rather just move on, and be free.

That was... incredibly profound.

And that is a gorgeous sketch, Surely.

Modifié par Sialater, 21 juillet 2011 - 09:48 .

[beckaliz]

SurelyForth wrote...


by emmav

I'm rully falling in love with Wil btw. XD I put her on my Kindle. <3

[SurelyForth]

 @Sia I know! I still wished that was how the game ended. Leaving Kirkwall seems so fitting...or picking up the pieces, if you become Viscount.
@beckaliz Thanks! 

[YamiSnuffles]

@CGG: That was brilliant. The thread has been compared to Anders since the early days, but I think you've said it the most wonderfully. Want a sandwhich?

@Surely: You changed the thread to the exact thing I was going to suggest. Awesome.

[berelinde]

@Batteries (hoping that you're lurking somewhere): Is there any way to get the Anders part of CGG's post added to the FAQ? It was frickin' brilliant. And I don't swear.

(Edit for punctuation, bane of my existence.)

Modifié par berelinde, 21 juillet 2011 - 11:43 .

[Jean]

I did not make the FAQ, I just have it in my sig.

[Sialater]

SurelyForth wrote...

 @Sia I know! I still wished that was how the game ended. Leaving Kirkwall seems so fitting...or picking up the pieces, if you become Viscount.

Isn't that yours and my "job" to fill in those blanks?  

The muse has almost convinced me the sequel to The Rescue should be a novelization of DA2.

[berelinde]

Batteries wrote...

I did not make the FAQ, I just have it in my sig.

Oops! Sorry, Batteries! Well, let's hope Threeparts thinks it's worth including.

[berelinde]

Sialater wrote...
The muse has almost convinced me the sequel to The Rescue should be a novelization of DA2.

Do it! Your muse should be allowed to roam free, not  be confined by the restrictive idiocy that is a 24-hour day. Seriously, though, if you feel inspired to write, do it. The act of creation, and all...

[Arquen]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Metaphorically, the differences between this thread and the Fenris thread are very similar to the differences between Anders and Fenris.

The Anders thread is contentious, always at war with itself, filled with self hate, but easily able to fall deeply in love with whoever shows it kindness... and even with people who argue, as long as they do so civilly. It's too smart for its own good, obsessed with history and wall-of-text manifestos, and devoted to the cause of mage justice... while at the same time, sometimes it wishes it could just be Awakening Anders again. It loves Ser Pounce, and Pie, and Justice-as-he-was. There's much left unknown, but little unsaid. It's also completely insane, but insane in a way never before seen. The Anders thread knows of Anders' imperfections and seeks to explore them, crack them open, map them entirely.

The Fenris thread is calm, happy, and devoted. If anyone attacks it, or even subtly counters its fundamental disposition, it will react impulsively, defensively. It is very pretty, if a bit gruff and unfocused when conflict arises. When there is no conflict, there is wine, and beauty, and single-minded love. The Fenris thread enjoys the little, forgivable, quirky flaws but does not want to map the deeper shadows that may or may not lie below the surface. They would rather just move on, and be free.

Have to drop in on this. I can't resist. Fenris fans are also a bit disagreeable, and we can be stubborn, no doubt muahaha. For myself I love a good Fenris discussion. Good or bad. Yet as a whole Fenris fans tend to avoid the "haters," for much the same reason Anders fans leap to defend Anders when someone comes in and goes "OMG Anders is nothing but a Terrorist."

As for which to prefer, it is a kneejerk reaction to go into a defensive tirade that I have to suppress when someone starts going on about how Fenris has no depth, or is too angsty, emo, whatever. I think I am one of the only ones on this thread who is still Fenris to the core, but is interested in Anders. I can't ever call myself an Anderstian because I just don't feel that way about his character. I love to have Anders as a BFF, to support him in his cause, to ride the crazy train along with him, but in the end he doesn't impact me in the same way. The reasoning for people to like who they like and prefer who they do boils down to very personal reasons I suspect.

I do notice a few large distinctions though -- that being that people often cite Fenris' "whining about magic" as something that bothers them. Wheras with Anders it is the "whining about Templars," and being antagonistic (especially in act 3) that turns them away. That, and his overly obsessive dialogue about "drowning in blood" and "laying awake aching for you." Some people find that a total turn off *cough*me*cough* Also, that Anders isn't a "hard fought" love like Fenris is. There is a distinction there, as with Isabela.. that the love comes later, and the relationship instead of falling apart in act 3 becomes more solid and unbreakable. A "truer" love to some people. As stated I'm just sort of going on distinctions I've seen, but it all ends up being personal preference. I do see over and over that while Anders fans love his overly obsessive "I love you love you love you!" Fenris fans tend to dislike that sort of doting relationship and instead love the idea of "winning" Fenris over, and coming out with a deeper, more loyal relationship. As for personality, Anders' Awakenings personality was definitely easier to love, but in DA2 his personality can be to intense. His secrecy to much to endure, and his antagonistic "I'm right your wrong, join me!" attitude just downright annoying. Yet his passion, his struggle, his devotion to his cause and his desperate need and want of Hawke make him very much an interesting character, among other things. Likewise Fenris' need for vengeance, desperate need for trust, internal struggle and growth, and personal redemption make him interesting. While his still blaming magic attitude, abrasive speech, and tragic past tend to turn people away from him.

This thread is a great way to appreciate Anders more. I liked him before, but this thread really helps me understand him better, and so I like him even more because of it. I liked Anders in Awakenings, but my Warden was still 100% devoted to Alistair, and I felt the same way in DAA about Anders that I do in DA2 -- that being I do like his character a lot. I want to be there with him. I want to support him and ride the crazy train with him, but I don't want to be his romantic partner. So... there's my 2 cents on that.

Modifié par Arquen, 22 juillet 2011 - 10:35 .

[Fluffenstein]

Arquen wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Metaphorically, the differences between this thread and the Fenris thread are very similar to the differences between Anders and Fenris.

*Snip*

Have to drop in on this. I can't resist. Fenris fans are also a bit disagreeable, and we can be stubborn, no doubt muahaha. For myself I love a good Fenris discussion. Good or bad. Yet as a whole Fenris fans tend to avoid the "haters," for much the same reason Anders fans leap to defend Anders when someone comes in and goes "OMG Anders is nothing but a Terrorist."

As for which to prefer, it is a kneejerk reaction to go into a defensive tirade that I have to suppress when someone starts going on about how Fenris has no depth, or is too angsty, emo, whatever. I think I am one of the only ones on this thread who is still Fenris to the core, but is interested in Anders. I can't ever call myself an Anderstian because I just don't feel that way about his character. I love to have Anders as a BFF, to support him in his cause, to ride the crazy train along with him, but in the end he doesn't impact me in the same way. The reasoning for people to like who they like and prefer who they do boils down to very personal reasons I suspect.

I do notice a few large distinctions though -- that being that people often site Fenris' "whining about magic" as something that bothers them. Wheras with Anders it is the "whining about Templars," and being antagonistic (especially in act 3) that turns them away. That, and his overly obsessive dialogue about "drowning in blood" and "laying awake aching for you." Some people find that a total turn off *cough*me*cough* Also, that Anders isn't a "hard fought" love like Fenris is. There is a distinction there, as with Isabela.. that the love comes later, and the relationship instead of falling apart in act 3 becomes more solid and unbreakable. A "truer" love to some people. As stated I'm just sort of going on distinctions I've seen, but it all ends up being personal preference. I do see over and over that while Anders fans love his overly obsessive "I love you love you love you!" Fenris fans tend to dislike that sort of doting relationship and instead love the idea of "winning" Fenris over, and coming out with a deeper, more loyal relationship. As for personality, Anders' Awakenings personality was definitely easier to love, but in DA2 his personality can be to intense. His secrecy to much to endure, and his antagonistic "I'm right your wrong, join me!" attitude just downright annoying. Yet his passion, his struggle, his devotion to his cause and his desperate need and want of Hawke make him very much an interesting character, among other things. Likewise Fenris' need for vengeance, desperate need for trust, internal struggle and growth, and personal redemption make him interesting. While his still blaming magic attitude, abrasive speech, and tragic past tend to turn people away from him.

This thread is a great way to appreciate Anders more. I liked him before, but this thread really helps me understand him better, and so I like him even more because of it. I liked Anders in Awakenings, but my Warden was still 100% devoted to Alistair, and I felt the same way in DAA about Anders that I do in DA2 -- that being I do like his character a lot. I want to be there with him. I want to support him and ride the crazy train with him, but I don't want to be his romantic partner. So... there's my 2 cents on that.

I think the thing is a lot of us are hopeless romantics and Anders just seems to be the same way, while Fenris doesn't seem all that romantic to me. Sure, I thought some of the things Anders said was a bit cringe worthy, and the noises durring Hawke and Anders first kiss makes me blush and turn away from the screen (because I am just awkward and not good with those types of things.) When I romanced Fenris (or tried to) it bothered me that he was pressed up against the wall with my femhawke and having to wait for him just really turned me off, not really sure why, either.

I was really interested in his character from awakening, and as soon as I seen him in DA2 I had realized he changed, a lot, maybe for the better and maybe not, but for some reason I was just more drawn to him than I was before. I think that may be because I am strong into certain causes in the real world as much as I was for freeing the mages.

I DUNNO GUYS, it's late and I'm rambling.

[beckaliz]

 Rambling = <3

[Ineffable Igor]

Fluffenstein wrote...

Arquen wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Metaphorically, the differences between this thread and the Fenris thread are very similar to the differences between Anders and Fenris.

*Snip*

*Snip again*

I think the thing is a lot of us are hopeless romantics and Anders just seems to be the same way, while Fenris doesn't seem all that romantic to me. Sure, I thought some of the things Anders said was a bit cringe worthy, and the noises durring Hawke and Anders first kiss makes me blush and turn away from the screen (because I am just awkward and not good with those types of things.) When I romanced Fenris (or tried to) it bothered me that he was pressed up against the wall with my femhawke and having to wait for him just really turned me off, not really sure why, either.

I was really interested in his character from awakening, and as soon as I seen him in DA2 I had realized he changed, a lot, maybe for the better and maybe not, but for some reason I was just more drawn to him than I was before. I think that may be because I am strong into certain causes in the real world as much as I was for freeing the mages.

I DUNNO GUYS, it's late and I'm rambling.

I think that most of the fengirls are hopeless romantics in their own right (I know I am), just in a different way.  I mean, we're more than willing to wait for him for three years.  More of a patient, simple romantic than obsessive, passionate romantic.  That's the main thing that sort of turned me off an Anders romance, it was so...easy, I guess, to fall madly in love with each other right away.  That sort of all consuming, fiery passion has a tendency to burn you up, a la Wuthering Heights, Romeo and Juliet, etc.  Things are by no means simple with Fenris, he's way too damaged, but it's more...peaceful, I guess?  Even if you rivalmance him, there are lots of fights and disagreements, but you both end up in a better place than when you started, more or less happy. With Anders it always felt like he was in an unstoppable downward spiral that could only end in destruction.  And did.

[berelinde]

Ineffable Igor wrote...
Things are by no means simple with Fenris, he's way too damaged, but it's more...peaceful, I guess?

I suppose three years alone, wondering if the guy is ever going to be willing to even talk about what happend could be considered peaceful. To be fair, even if he had attempted it, my Fenris-attempting Hawke would not have listened. After the way he left, nothing he could say would have convinced her that he was worth the wait.

Real life standards don't apply to game romances, I know. If I met a guy like Anders in real life, I would probably run away screaming. Or maybe not. He is very sweet, a former player off his game in a way that's actually painful to watch. I just might give in. Though I definitely would not let him move in right away. But then again, if I knew that he had to step over junkies on his way home from my place, I just might. And then, after three years of hapiness together, I would not dream of abandoning someone because their mental illness was worsening. In sickness and in health and all. The problem, and the beauty, of Anders's romance is that taken individually, each step of the journey is not too big a leap. It is only when the entire thing is viewed as a whole that the trainwreck is visible for what it is. And that's why it's awesome.

In real life, if a guy slammed me against a wall, it would lead to a night in a police station holding cell, not sexytimes. And if somebody dumped me after sex, that would be the last they saw of me, so the half-hearted apology three years later would never have happened.

[Tyrium]

berelinde wrote...

Ineffable Igor wrote...
Things are by no means simple with Fenris, he's way too damaged, but it's more...peaceful, I guess?

I suppose three years alone, wondering if the guy is ever going to be willing to even talk about what happend could be considered peaceful. To be fair, even if he had attempted it, my Fenris-attempting Hawke would not have listened. After the way he left, nothing he could say would have convinced her that he was worth the wait.

Real life standards don't apply to game romances, I know. If I met a guy like Anders in real life, I would probably run away screaming. Or maybe not. He is very sweet, a former player off his game in a way that's actually painful to watch. I just might give in. Though I definitely would not let him move in right away. But then again, if I knew that he had to step over junkies on his way home from my place, I just might. And then, after three years of hapiness together, I would not dream of abandoning someone because their mental illness was worsening. In sickness and in health and all. The problem, and the beauty, of Anders's romance is that taken individually, each step of the journey is not too big a leap. It is only when the entire thing is viewed as a whole that the trainwreck is visible for what it is. And that's why it's awesome.

In real life, if a guy slammed me against a wall, it would lead to a night in a police station holding cell, not sexytimes. And if somebody dumped me after sex, that would be the last they saw of me, so the half-hearted apology three years later would never have happened.

Berelinde, you've managed to say exactly what I've been trying to put into proper words and thoughts - this is exactly how I feel about the romance. Taken slowly, as it would be for the characters, without the time jumps, the whole thing makes perfect sense.  And a guy acting like Fenris does towards me? Police staion. I love the Anders romance, it feels real  it's by no means perfect, and it makes sense for my Hawkette.

[Arquen]

I love the wall slam, and don't see it as particularly violent, but more passionate. Fenris really doesn't hurt Hawke, if that was his intent, he would have.

The Anders face-rape is worse to me. I mean he grabs your head and just forces himself all over you. I'm all "gack! My face! I can't move! WHat is that panting noise.. ohh.. umm. well then."

SO, to each their own, again. LOL.

[Heidenreich]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Metaphorically, the differences between this thread and the Fenris thread are very similar to the differences between Anders and Fenris.

The Anders thread is contentious, always at war with itself, filled with self hate, but easily able to fall deeply in love with whoever shows it kindness... and even with people who argue, as long as they do so civilly. It's too smart for its own good, obsessed with history and wall-of-text manifestos, and devoted to the cause of mage justice... while at the same time, sometimes it wishes it could just be Awakening Anders again. It loves Ser Pounce, and Pie, and Justice-as-he-was. There's much left unknown, but little unsaid. It's also completely insane, but insane in a way never before seen. The Anders thread knows of Anders' imperfections and seeks to explore them, crack them open, map them entirely.

The Fenris thread is calm, happy, and devoted. If anyone attacks it, or even subtly counters its fundamental disposition, it will react impulsively, defensively. It is very pretty, if a bit gruff and unfocused when conflict arises. When there is no conflict, there is wine, and beauty, and single-minded love. The Fenris thread enjoys the little, forgivable, quirky flaws but does not want to map the deeper shadows that may or may not lie below the surface. They would rather just move on, and be free.

Goodness I love you so hard. I'd ask you to have my babies, but I already have three, and I think my husband would be put out ;p

-this- is it exactly. Well, generally anyway. There are plenty of us Fenris-fans who enjoy a good Fenris debate. Like Arquen, though I feel like I aught to be put out that she feels she's the only Fanris fan in the thread. I love me some Anders, that flame is eternal... but Fenris is still my choice for canon romance ;p At the end of the day, My Anders-Hawkes are too.. broken for me to enjoy. Besides that, I'm a sucker for broody, stoic, and deadpan humor ;p

At the end of the day, Fenris fans who love a good debate, hang out in the Anders thread --- because here in the Anders thread we can discuss, debate, and agree to disagree. The Fenris thread was like that, once, but now it feels very "look, pretty pictures!" and there's very little discussion. When there is, there's raging and angry.

The folks here are what caused my heart of hearts to return to its love of Anders that was shattered into a million peices after my first play through. To the point that I am hard-pressed to visit the Fenris thread anymore.. and that's where I started!


Also!

Arquen wrote...

I love the wall slam, and don't see it as
particularly violent, but more passionate. Fenris really doesn't hurt
Hawke, if that was his intent, he would have.

The Anders
face-rape is worse to me. I mean he grabs your head and just forces
himself all over you. I'm all "gack! My face! I can't move! WHat is that
panting noise.. ohh.. umm. well then."

SO, to each their own, again. LOL.

Both scenes are amazing. The Anders scene is "Omg, desperate, passionate, sexy... uhnf!"

The Fenris scene is, "That's it, I'm done, kiss me.. mmm yes yes muwhahahahahahah"

Of course, I prefer the next-day non-glowy kiss from Fenris, because it's more.. real and less in the moment. He had to THINK about it all night and decide. Nom nom planned hottness.

Modifié par Heidenreich, 22 juillet 2011 - 01:09 .

[ipgd]

I just like Anders because he is interesting from a meta standpoint and his narrative arc dissects a number of tropes in a way that gives me a lot to think about.

</coldanalyticalbastard>

Fenris just sort of... has very little relevance to the main plot, doesn't fit into the time skip structure very well, and is generally a confused jumble of "almosts" and "could have beens" that hold him back from being truly interesting to me. His romance gets the best dick joke ever, though.

[berelinde]

About the sloppy, slurpy, panting kiss. Yeah, Anders is definitely rocking a face-hugger vibe there, but by that point, poor Hawke has been lusting after him for three years. He's definitely entitled to a good snog.

[Arquen]

I never meant to put you out or anything Heidenreich, and in fact I was thinking of you when I wrote that which is why I wrote "one of the only ones." I think you are spot on about the debate/discussions though.

I do love a good discussion, and while I do love the Fenris thread it has sort of lost steam over the past month or so. The debates and long drawn out discussions just kind of died down. It is bound to happen. The Anders thread does a nice job of bringing up food for thought though, and as I said I like Anders, and I like to read people's interpretations/rationale etc. on him so I lurk around here. Plus the debates and discussions that go on here are full of win. And then there is the crazy. This thread is always good for a good laugh. BRILLIANT!

Modifié par Arquen, 22 juillet 2011 - 02:08 .

[Rinji the Bearded]

I like Anders the best because he's the most dramatic mess and he's plot relevant.

I just kinda wondered why Fenris hung around at all.

Anders's passionate omnomnom kiss made me as a player see stars because I could sense the release of all that sexual tension that had been held back for three years. From my Hawke's standpoint, BOTH of them had wanted that for a long time.

[beckaliz]

Honestly I'm a little on the fence about Anders's hot-hot nomming kiss. But it's a superficial reason. The animation makes me cry a little.