Apologies in advance for the WoT.
CulturalGeekGirl wrote...
In Origins, you were given solutions to your various problems, but you couldn't have your cake and eat it too. At the very least, you had to do the Dark Ritual, which felt like it was originally supposed to be a very bad idea (though I feel like they backpedaled on that a lot in Witch Hunt). For most characters the choices involved were interesting and difficult: do dark magic, or die? Stay together as Wardens, or make Alistair king?
The problem was, they actually gave players one avenue (the HNF) where you could have most of the cakes while eating them. Instead of being this special cool little bonus, it became what most people did, because most people want the happy ending. If there's an optimal solution, why not take it? I'm not disparaging Couslands at all, there's just literally no downside: you get one of the cooler origins, and you get to be Queen. I would have gone that way myself, if I hadn't been attached to my Mahariel already. (Sidenote: I actually find the Dalish origin itself one of the more boring ones, gameplay and dialouge-wise. What I didn't realized until I tried playing other origins later is how profoundly it affected the way I processed the world: I entered the world with a feeling that the status is not quo, a firm reason to be suspicious of the Chantry, and direct experience with a life that seemed much better than the crap the average Ferelden has to put up with.)
This is assuming that you considering the cakes in the HNF origin worth having. Ie. Romancing Alistair, marrying him and becoming queen. Not everyone will consider that to be their preferred choice.
So far, I have 4 Wardens: an F!Mahariel (my canon), an F!Aeducan, an M!Amell and an F!Brosca. F!Cousland and F!Tabris are in the works at some point in the future, but even knowing what an F!Cousland could have before starting the game (which I did), I still picked an F!Mahariel as my canon and left Cousland for one of the last ones. Reasons? I like elves and the Dalish backstory, becoming queen didn't exactly appeal to me, and while I like Alistair, he's not my favourite, and I prefer Zevran's romance a whole lot more. I knew about how to conduct both romances from the get-go, and I still picked Zev first. Heck, I picked him second and fourth, and will pick him sixth. I'll basically only have 2 Wardens who *haven't* romanced Zevran by the time I'm done (M!Amell picked Morrigan, because I was curious).
That's neither here nor there though. Besides the fact that you may not think much of becoming queen of Ferelden, you also have to remember that in order for an F!Cousland to be still happily married to Alistair at the end of the game, you basically have to consciously push him into the arms of another woman. Sure, he dislikes Morrigan, and sure, it's the only way to save both of your lives, but really, is that so idyllic? I don't consider it to be a "I can have my cake and eat it" moment. Rather "I can have my cake sprinkled with tabasco...and then cringingly eat it".
Cousland is the preferred origin, but that also includes M!Couslands. Male players are still a majority, and Cousland for *them* is definitely having their cake and eating it. If they don't romance Morrigan, they can have Loghain or Alistair take the fall, then marry Anora and rule, with either Zevran as lover or Leliana as a mistress. If they do romance Morrigan, regardless of what happens, they can still leave into the sunset with her in Witch Hunt.
So yes, there is a "have your cakes and eat it" in Origins, but I don't think it's HNF. It's HNM. Again, assuming that becoming king is something that catches your fancy.
Thinking about this made me realize how the storytelling mechanics of RPGs dictate what can happen, plot-wise. I'm not just talking about the rational limits of choice (which are easy to see), I'm talking about how certain "ideal" choices must be omitted to push people toward the other available choices. While we constantly have discussions here about how Hawke could potentially help Anders, I think it's pretty widely agreed upon that 1) doing so would be very difficult and 2) very few Hawkes are the kind of people likely to approach the problem in a way that would be likely to yield results. Anders' situation is tragic, and its tragedy is part of why we love him - we all want to comfort him, knowing that it's probably not going to a lot of good in the long run.
If we're given a big choice and one possible option seems to have pretty much no downside (I'm looking at you, big decision at the end of the original Mass Effect), players can wonder why the heck the other choices even exist?
If the writers offered a way to actually have a productive conversation with Anders about his problems, or a way to talk to Justice, or any of the hundred helpful things I ache to do, most people would take that option, because why not help him if he can be helped? Even if the process to trigger the conversation was weird and arcane, and the choices necessary to make it work very limited, it would be FAQ'd right away and might become the most common path. Then his story would lose some of its tragic nature, because in the same way the "most common Alistair" is one who is happily married to a Cousland wife, the "most common Anders" would be one who has received effective treatment. In a world where one Hawke can be a brilliant therapist, all Hawkes can be, and most probably WILL be.
If you write a tragic situation (like Alistair) and give it non-tragic outs (hardening and/or Couslanding), most people are going to take the less tragic path, and the tragedy will be blunted. The reason no Hawke can offer Anders the help he obviously needs is that, if one Hawke did, most would, and the tragedy would be less effective, would pluck a less lively tune upon our collective heartstrings.
This is why I am content with not having a defined post-game ending for Hawke and Anders beyond 'they stayed together.' Any ending would needs have the same RPG storyline limitations, while without them, the sky's the limit.
Again, this is assuming someone who likes Anders/has romanced him and considers going the extra mile to help him to be worth it. There are plenty of people out there who didn't like him much as of Awakening and then either hated his guts in DA2 or couldn't be bothered to put up with his crap. You have to remember that, even if you do get a way to help him in a future DLC or in DA3, he will still have blown up the Chantry. That's plenty enough for some people to execute him or kick him out of the party forever, regardless of whether there's a way to help him after the fact or not.
I'm pretty sure that, even if there is a storyline way of helping him later on, there will be a good portion of the player population (especially male) who simply won't bother. Not just because they didn't romance him, but because as a character, he's not as easy to like as Alistair. There was no compelling reason to sacrifice Alistair in Origins, he didn't do anything wrong. That's another incentive to make an effort to save him. There's a pretty huge compelling reason to sacrifice Anders in DA2.
So while I agree that the HNM origin in DAO might have been a bit too convenient, I don't think the possibility to help Anders would be in the same ballpark.
To sum things up and add a few remarks:
1) Tragedies don't necessarily equate to good stories. Forcibly killing characters your audience likes does not automatically make for a good, compelling storyline (cf. Harry Potter...and all the people clamouring for scripted character deaths in ME3). Eg. I seem to remember quite a few people being upset at the fact that you couldn't prevent Anders from blowing up the Chantry when it first became known. This is exactly the type of scripted, unavoidable choice that creates tragedy. But we're dealing with a medium that has an inherent way of avoiding such situations. Not only is this a game, but also a WRPG: you're supposed to have choices. Lots of players are going to expect to be able to have a say in what happens.
2) With that in mind, ME2 has an "everybody lives" option that is fairly easy to achieve. Still, there's a sizable portion of the player base that has prepared save games for import into ME3 where they have consciously let some of their crew die. Whether to add to the "tragic impact" or simply because they didn't like them. Not everyone will always choose to have their cake and eat it, even if the option is readily available (eg. I always let Isolde die, even if I know I can save her), but I do think both kinds of players should have the possibility to do as they please. This is the point of a game, and this is why it is different from other storytelling media, where, if the author chooses to write a tragedy, it is unavoidable.
3) Applying the above to my own case, I'm playing these games partly because I like the characters involved. Seeing them die/suffer indefinitely does not add to my enjoyment in the long run. Anders' storyline is already chock-full of tragedy. While it's true that part of me does enjoy said tragedy, I would actually welcome a semblance of a happy ending after all is said and done. Even a partially tainted one
à la Alistair. There are so few cakes in this particular situation that I'll gladly take even a tabasco-topped one.
4) ...Ok, I admit that I'm a shameless Anders fangirl, and I'd love to have a way to help him (cf. getting rid of Valen's taint in NWN).
Modifié par Nilfalasiel, 27 juillet 2011 - 01:39 .
Retour en haut
) which totally triggered the thing with Justice and its TOTALLY HER FAULT THAT TWO TIMING EVIL COUSIN!
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about him sleeping with sexy Morrigan...and then she'd be like "sooo...wonder what happened to that child..of yours...and Morrigans.." But, Alistair is really devoted so I don't read too much into it. The only way I see Alistair being a really tragic character is if like...your warden is a total jerk to him and he ends up a drunk in the Hanged Man. I just let Alistair kill Loghain lol.
