57020 réponses à ce sujet

[tmp7704]

Tidra wrote...

No, because the Knight-Commander specifically states that the only reason she hasn't come down on Anders is because of his friendship with the Champion.

When does that happen? I don't recall Meredith mentioning Anders in my game in such context... she was making big point about not coming down on the apostate Hawke himself and how Hawke should prove he's still concerned with well-being of Kirkwall, but that was all. And that's despite taking Anders with me and him actually trying to start trouble with her during the meeting. She didn't acknowledge his existence at all (which is perhaps the best and funniest way to deal with his attacks but that's another story)

Except he doesn't threaten him to shut up, he threatens to turn him in just for making fun of him for being a Templar.

It's a threat/reminder made in order to shut Anders up. No matter the content, it's still just words. What, is Anders such delicate flower that even threats aimed at him have to be mild?

I never said there was only "one such Templar" like him in all of Thedas because there are more like him. I said, one of out how many...which in Malcolm's case it appears there was ONLY one.

The intent was (and still is) to put in question the ratio of fair templars just the same, wasn't it? Otherwise what was the point of that remark?

Also we don't actually know how exactly many templars were nice to Malcolm. We have a confirmed existence of one that really went out of his way to help, but if you want to use that as argument that there was no others... well, we don't have any record of even single specific templar who was mean to Malcolm. So using the same reasoning, we'd have to conclude that no such templars existed?

[ademska]

YEPPPPPP just speedy gonzalesing through the rock maze, running circles and avoiding enemies and periodically checking on regroup

anderps, my lifeline in that dlc

[MorningBird]

Oddly enough, Hawke and Anders were the only people in my party who DIDN'T die once during that fight.

Varric and Fenris, on the other hand, couldn't seem to just stay out of that flippin' fire. ;-;

Then again, I tend to switch to Anders during such fights. Warrior!Hawke is a CHAMP at staying alive, so I just hang back and play mage!healer while Hawke takes care of business. xD

I really loved taking Varric, Anders and Fenris into this DLC with me. I was especially pleased that Varric and Anders seemed to have real relevance in what was going on, Varric being a part of the dwarven merchant's guild, and Anders being tainted by the darkspawn blood. Nothing much happened with Fenris, but the sniping between him and Anders was still gold.

[Jean]

Evilnor wrote...

I got a really funny banter between Aveline and Anders. She totally trolled him.

(paraphrasing)
Aveline: What now, mage?
Aveline: Any minute I'll be inspired to be a guard captain and turn you over to the templars.
Anders: What are you going on about?
Aveline: Ooh, authority! Ooh!
Anders: Oh, shut up.

i love how ****y everybody is to each other in this game

[SgtElias]

MorningBird wrote...

Oddly enough, Hawke and Anders were the only people in my party who DIDN'T die once during that fight.

I play a Mage!Hawke, and I managed to keep everyone from dying, except Varric. I think he was going through a rough patch in his life, or something, because he really, really seemed to want to die.

I suppose I'm mostly to blame, though. I was always so busy making sure that my lover and brother were safe that by the time I remembered the dwarf he was usually extra crispy.

[Sinaxi]

tmp7704 wrote...
When does that happen? I don't recall Meredith mentioning Anders in my game in such context... she was making big point about not coming down on the apostate Hawke himself and how Hawke should prove he's still concerned with well-being of Kirkwall, but that was all. And that's despite taking Anders with me and him actually trying to start trouble with her during the meeting. She didn't acknowledge his existence at all (which is perhaps the best and funniest way to deal with his attacks but that's another story)

So...her saying "Be careful, Mage, your friendship with the Champion protects you only so much." Isn't mentioning him or acknowledging his existence?

It's a threat/reminder made in order to shut Anders up. No matter the content, it's still just words. What, is Anders such delicate flower that even threats aimed at him have to be mild?

Is Carver such a delicate flower that he can't help but resort to "WAH! You're a Mage! I'll turn you in!" I mean, come on. This point is just stupid to talk about, because they both could have handled it differently. And what Anders said was still just words as well, and there wasn't any semblance of a threat in there. He was asking him how he liked being a Templar...valid question to me.

The intent was (and still is) to put in question the ratio of fair templars just the same, wasn't it? Otherwise what was the point of that remark?

Also we don't actually know how exactly many templars were nice to Malcolm. We have a confirmed existence of one that really went out of his way to help, but if you want to use that as argument that there was no others... well, we don't have any record of even single specific templar who was mean to Malcolm. So using the same reasoning, we'd have to conclude that no such templars existed?

I didn't say there weren't any others. It wasn't putting in the ratio of who are fair templars, it was simply a response to you because you acted like it was such a far-fetched idea that Malcolm "had a chip on his shoulder" (which I never even put in my post to begin with) concerning Templars based on us only knowing about him liking 1 of them.

So, no, I once again, never said there weren't others that were nice to him. But, the only proof available to us is that he had 1 case of a Templar being nice to him...and I would say Templars being "mean" would be kind of a given since they are uh, hunting him down in public and such. So I wouldn't conclude those Templars didn't exist.

If you want to go this route, then I would have to say there is not enough evidence to satisfactorily give an answer for what it is you are suggesting. But if you are trying to say that Malcolm had more nice Templar friends just because it can't be proven false, then that's just illogical. I used the only evidence we have to say that ONLY ONE was nice to him because that is all we KNOW of so far, and other than that the only ending to this conversation will be "not enough evidence" because it's the truth for both sides.

I was just saying that out of what we know of Malcolm so far, he wasn't popular among the Templars being an apostate, and just pointing out that we have only heard of ONE guy that went out of his way to help him. This all started because you wanted to say something to me about my comment that Malcolm was someone who spent his whole life running from Templars and what they stood for, which uh..isn't exactly an untrue statement at all? Since he, DID spend his whole life on the run, and DIDN'T agree with the Circle. So why bother with the whole "oh his best friend was a Templar" it doesn't change the fact that he didn't agree with the Circle or Templars in general.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

The problem with templars isn't about individuals with templar abilities, it's about the institution. It is specifically designed to attract those who won't ask moral questions, but will blindly follow orders; the codex says as much. It also seems to mess with some of the kids who are given over to the order almost as badly as mages are messed with: Alistair was as relieved at being rescued by templar-ship as Anders was at being rescued from the circle. There's that man in the tower in the first game who only wanted to have a wife and children, and Cullen who seems a bit bent himself.

I think it might have been possible to give Carver a better reason for what he did than "oh, it was the one time I decided to do anything." That's not an answer, Carver, and you know it. I have a Templar Hawke: her reasoning was the sort of "know thine enemy, take them down from within" sort of thing, as well as a desire to protect Bethany. Carver hints at this stuff, but doesn't come out and say it. That's frustrating.

[pagerunner]

SgtElias wrote...

MorningBird wrote...

Oddly enough, Hawke and Anders were the only people in my party who DIDN'T die once during that fight.

I play a Mage!Hawke, and I managed to keep everyone from dying, except Varric. I think he was going through a rough patch in his life, or something, because he really, really seemed to want to die.

I suppose I'm mostly to blame, though. I was always so busy making sure that my lover and brother were safe that by the time I remembered the dwarf he was usually extra crispy.

Everyone died on me so. many. times during the final boss fight before I figured the trick of it.  All they seemed to want to do was run STRAIGHT INTO THE FIRE.  Crazy people.    By comparison, on the supposedly super-hard secret boss, I only bit the big one once, and on the second try was golden.  (Granted, I was at a low difficulty level for both -- but still.)

Meanwhile, I confess I might possibly be posting right now mostly to express amazement that no one's yet made the "I'm gonna party like it's...." joke.  *peers at page number*

Modifié par pagerunner, 28 juillet 2011 - 08:55 .

[SgtElias]

pagerunner wrote...

Everyone died on me so. many. times during the final boss fight before I figured the trick of it.  All they seemed to want to do was run STRAIGHT INTO THE FIRE.  Crazy people.    By comparison, on the supposedly super-hard secret boss, I only bit the big one once, and on the second try was golden.  (Granted, I was at a low difficulty level for both -- but still.)

Meanwhile, I confess I might possibly be posting right now mostly to express amazement that no one's yet made the "I'm gonna party like it's...." joke.  *peers at page number*

Oh yeah, I didn't mean to imply I was able to keep everyone alive at high difficulty. I always play everything on casual, which is probably another reason that it only seemed to be Varric with a death wish in my game.

Ahem.

"I'm gonna party like it's [page #].

Hm, to make it more on topic:

Anders is gonna party like it's [page #].

Modifié par SgtElias, 28 juillet 2011 - 09:08 .

[nitefyre410]

*plays   Prince - 1999**    

The problem with templars isn't about individuals with templar abilities, it's about the institution. It is specifically designed to attract those who won't ask moral questions, but will blindly follow orders; the codex says as much. It also seems to mess with some of the kids who are given over to the order almost as badly as mages are messed with: Alistair was as relieved at being rescued by templar-ship as Anders was at being rescued from the circle. There's that man in the tower in the first game who only wanted to have a wife and children, and Cullen who seems a bit bent himself.

^agree along with the fact that they  have entirely too much power when it comes to how The Circle  is dealt with - Most  the port  its the Templar way or the highway. Give one  institution that much power  can only lead to bad things happening. Plus the "Tranquil solution"   the first time I saw that   in DA:O  I was thinking to myself "You know I have a feeling I'm going to killing alot of  Templars in my future play throughDA games."   Because that is just wrong on  so many levels.
 

[SgtElias]

nitefyre410 wrote...

^agree along with the fact that they  have entirely too much power when it comes to how The Circle  is dealt with - Most  the port  its the Templar way or the highway. Give one  institution that much power  can only lead to bad things happening. Plus the "Tranquil solution"   the first time I saw that   in DA:O  I was thinking to myself "You know I have a feeling I'm going to killing alot of  Templars in my future play throughDA games."   Because that is just wrong on  so many levels.
 

To be fair, though, it's not necessarilly the templars (as an institution) fault that Alrek came up with the Tranquil Solution. Even Meredith, as bat f*** as she is, rejected the idea out of hand.

My gods, I never thought the day would dawn that I was defending templars. Pretty sure that's one of the 66 seals.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

My problem isn't that Alrik thought of it, but rather that he didn't get summarily drummed out of the order for proposing it -- Or at least quietly shipped off somewhere where he would not have any access to mages.

If you had shown the papers to the grand cleric and she was like "Whaaaaaat holy crap we should have gotten rid of him sooner!" that would have made the Templar order and the Chantry in general look a lot better.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 28 juillet 2011 - 09:31 .

[SgtElias]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

My problem isn't that Alrik thought of it, but rather that he didn't get summarily drummed out of the order for proposing it -- Or at least quietly shipped off somewhere where he would not have any access to mages.

If you had shown the papers to the grand cleric and she was like "Whaaaaaat holy crap we should have gotten rid of him sooner!" that would have made the Templar order and the Chantry in general look a lot better.

Haha, that's a good point.

Well, there's another reason to be disgusted with the templars as an order.

[nitefyre410]

SgtElias wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...

^agree along with the fact that they  have entirely too much power when it comes to how The Circle  is dealt with - Most  the port  its the Templar way or the highway. Give one  institution that much power  can only lead to bad things happening. Plus the "Tranquil solution"   the first time I saw that   in DA:O  I was thinking to myself "You know I have a feeling I'm going to killing alot of  Templars in my future play throughDA games."   Because that is just wrong on  so many levels.
 

To be fair, though, it's not necessarilly the templars (as an institution) fault that Alrek came up with the Tranquil Solution. Even Meredith, as bat f*** as she is, rejected the idea out of hand.

My gods, I never thought the day would dawn that I was defending templars. Pretty sure that's one of the 66 seals.

 

Your right she did but I was  talking about  whole Idea of the making someone  Tranquil as  whole not just  the  "Tranquil  Solution" that was brought up in Kirkwall. Sorry for the confusion my  allergies have keep me up most of the night and i'm kinda out of it. I  should be been more  clear in my statement

[YamiSnuffles]

Anders is partying like it's 1999!

[SgtElias]

YamiSnuffles wrote...
*snippity*

Anders is partying like it's 1999!

Elias approves +10

[SurelyForth]

YamiSnuffles wrote...

Anders is partying like it's 1999!

Oh, yami Anders Thread, never change.

[LT123]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

My problem isn't that Alrik thought of it, but rather that he didn't get summarily drummed out of the order for proposing it -- Or at least quietly shipped off somewhere where he would not have any access to mages.

If you had shown the papers to the grand cleric and she was like "Whaaaaaat holy crap we should have gotten rid of him sooner!" that would have made the Templar order and the Chantry in general look a lot better.

Too bad all we got was:

Elthina and Cullen: "Hey, somebody killed that guy the other day."
Hawke:

[SurelyForth]

LT123 wrote...
About the Calling: So Anders apparently never brought it up with Hawke. Uh. That's kind of important. (For romanced Hawke. Friend or rival, not as much.) I suppose he's clinging to his "I'm not a Warden anymore" mentality. which makes sense.

I can understand why he wouldn't...and he probably has no plans to live that long, anyway.

I call shenanigans. He doesn't miss the Warden-Commander (assuming they were friends)? Or Nate or Oghren or the other Wardens? People who were his friends, tried to help him steal his phylactery, and took out Ser Rylock when she tried to drag him off again?

If he feels like they abandoned him and let the situation get bad...and if he thinks his life in Kirkwall is better than killing darkspawn and being watched over by templars, I can see that he wouldn't want to go back.

Also, Anders is dramatic. He doesn't allow for a ton of grey.

@LT123 (some more)

I think the fact that Cullen is the Knight-Captain, even if he goes crazy, says a lot about the level of instability that the templar order is willing to put up with if the templar is fanatical enough. This is from the DA wiki:

In reality, the Chantry's militant arm looks first for skilled warriors with unshakable faith in the Maker, with a flawless moral center as a secondary concern. Templars must carry out their duty with an emotional distance, and the Order of Templars would rather have soldiers with religious fervor and absolute loyalty than paragons of virtue who might question orders when it comes time to make difficult choices.

Modifié par SurelyForth, 28 juillet 2011 - 12:28 .

[Heidenreich]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

The problem with templars isn't about individuals with templar abilities, it's about the institution. It is specifically designed to attract those who won't ask moral questions, but will blindly follow orders; the codex says as much. It also seems to mess with some of the kids who are given over to the order almost as badly as mages are messed with: Alistair was as relieved at being rescued by templar-ship as Anders was at being rescued from the circle. There's that man in the tower in the first game who only wanted to have a wife and children, and Cullen who seems a bit bent himself.

I think it might have been possible to give Carver a better reason for what he did than "oh, it was the one time I decided to do anything." That's not an answer, Carver, and you know it. I have a Templar Hawke: her reasoning was the sort of "know thine enemy, take them down from within" sort of thing, as well as a desire to protect Bethany. Carver hints at this stuff, but doesn't come out and say it. That's frustrating.

But, my dear CGG, this is the ultimate charm of Carver. He's your little brother, and he resents you. He resents you for any number of reasons, and one of them being leaving him behind when you went off to the deep roads. While you were gone he decided to be a twit and get back at you the only way he knew how. Become a templar. Now that he's been one for a while (3 years or 6) he realises that he's not doing it to get back at you (hawke) anymore. He's doing it to protect the mages in the circle from the other templars.

But, being your little brother, he's not going to tell you that. Because he's bitter, resents you, and holds something over you. Even if he loves you, he's your little brother. They do that. <3

[YamiSnuffles]

SurelyForth wrote...

I call shenanigans. He doesn't miss the Warden-Commander (assuming they were friends)? Or Nate or Oghren or the other Wardens? People who were his friends, tried to help him steal his phylactery, and took out Ser Rylock when she tried to drag him off again?

If he feels like they abandoned him and let the situation get bad...and if he thinks his life in Kirkwall is better than killing darkspawn and being watched over by templars, I can see that he wouldn't want to go back.

Also, Anders is dramatic. He doesn't allow for a ton of grey.

I feel like Anders has also taken the Warden Commander and other Awakening friends he might have had and sectioned them off from "Wardens" in his mind. He speaks quite fondly of the Commander and even some of his adventures in Ameranthine. However, when he mentions Wardens in a general sense, it's usually in a bad way. So I think he thinks of his friends as just that- friends. And he tends to be kind of contradictory like that.

[SurelyForth]

YamiSnuffles wrote...

I feel like Anders has also taken the Warden Commander and other Awakening friends he might have had and sectioned them off from "Wardens" in his mind. He speaks quite fondly of the Commander and even some of his adventures in Ameranthine. However, when he mentions Wardens in a general sense, it's usually in a bad way. So I think he thinks of his friends as just that- friends. And he tends to be kind of contradictory like that.

This is true. He speaks fondly of Sigrun in Legacy, doesn't he? And he clearly doen't hate Nate.

I really wished that Sigrun or Oghren could have shown up in Legacy. It would have been perfect.

[Heidenreich]

YamiSnuffles wrote...

SurelyForth wrote...

I call shenanigans. He doesn't miss the Warden-Commander (assuming they were friends)? Or Nate or Oghren or the other Wardens? People who were his friends, tried to help him steal his phylactery, and took out Ser Rylock when she tried to drag him off again?

If he feels like they abandoned him and let the situation get bad...and if he thinks his life in Kirkwall is better than killing darkspawn and being watched over by templars, I can see that he wouldn't want to go back.

Also, Anders is dramatic. He doesn't allow for a ton of grey.

I feel like Anders has also taken the Warden Commander and other Awakening friends he might have had and sectioned them off from "Wardens" in his mind. He speaks quite fondly of the Commander and even some of his adventures in Ameranthine. However, when he mentions Wardens in a general sense, it's usually in a bad way. So I think he thinks of his friends as just that- friends. And he tends to be kind of contradictory like that.

Oh, this  Even durring the DLC when he mentions the Warden-Commander, and even Sigrun(<3) they're spoken of in a different tone then "most wardens". In his mind, his Amaranthine friends are the ones who went through all his trials and tribulations and "Crazy, fun adventure-times" with, and once they were sent away/sanctioned off to new positions/responsiblities, his opinion of the wardens all but disntegrates into bad-bad-cat-taking-templar-assigning-badness.

I blame Stroud directly. My Mahariel (being the only one who stays with the Wardens) would have marched her kiester to Amaranthine and kicked Stroud in the ass for what he did to Anders! Thus why Nathaniel is in charge later on in the game and Stroud has been sent into the Deep roads around Kirkwall

[YamiSnuffles]

SurelyForth wrote...

This is true. He speaks fondly of Sigrun in Legacy, doesn't he? And he clearly doen't hate Nate.

I really wished that Sigrun or Oghren could have shown up in Legacy. It would have been perfect.

Oh, that would have been so good. I would have loved a brief cameo by Sigrun. If only they had female dwarf body models. I mean, they could have made one special for Sigrun, right.

[beckaliz]

Yami, that is amazing. Really. I've had it in mind to attempt an animation of my Hawke (though not sure how to do it anymore... if I can do it with Photoshop CS3) but... I don't think anything could compare to that gem. XD

Andersdance. Totally epic.