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[ipgd]

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...

It doesn't really matter where blood magic originated from - it's so widely associated with demons and there's in-game dialogue that suggests the only way (or at least the most common/easiest way - there are some contradictions on the matter) of learning it in present time in the DA-verse is by making deals with demons.

Jowan learns blood magic from a book, so.

[leggywillow]

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...

ipgd wrote...
Jowan learns blood magic from a book, so.

That's debatable. The books could simply have been about blood magic as a subject - its uses, history and so forth - without actually instructing how to learn it and that Jowan was tempted to find out for himself. It's never stated specifically that the books themselves taught him.

Weeellll... Jowan does have the kind of bad luck (coupled with horrible decision-making) that would cause him to stumble across the only demon-possessed book in Thedas.  It wouldn't surprise me.

[Addai]

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...

ipgd wrote...

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...

It doesn't really matter where blood magic originated from - it's so widely associated with demons and there's in-game dialogue that suggests the only way (or at least the most common/easiest way - there are some contradictions on the matter) of learning it in present time in the DA-verse is by making deals with demons.

Jowan learns blood magic from a book, so.

That's debatable. The books could simply have been about blood magic as a subject - its uses, history and so forth - without actually instructing how to learn it and that Jowan was tempted to find out for himself. It's never stated specifically that the books themselves taught him.

In the blood mage confrontation that got cut, Irving tells Wynne in his STFU speech that the Grey Wardens have books that other mages don't have access to- implying that a Warden mage could learn blood magic from a book.

Modifié par Addai67, 31 juillet 2011 - 07:58 .

[Amondra]

Doesn't Anders also ask Merrill if she stumbled onto blood magic just by cutting herself and not consorting with a demon?

[berelinde]

Amondra wrote...

Doesn't Anders also ask Merrill if she stumbled onto blood magic just by cutting herself and not consorting with a demon?

Yes, that is exactly what Anders asks her. From the Wiki:


[*]Anders: So, when you first did blood magic, it was... just an accident, right?
[*]Anders: You cut yourself and realized the power? You didn't actually deal with a demon?

[Amondra]

Sounds like it doesn't have to be learned from demons. However it does sound like something that happens naturally, in the sense. If Anders cut himself, he just as easily use it. What makes it forbidden is that people would want to use others blood so they don't have to worry about killing themselves, and it is like a drug, once you use it and see the boost it gives, that harder it is for you not to use it, and thus to start doing want I said earlier; using others blood as to get yourself kill by draining yourself dry.

Which is why Merrill's blood magic never bothered me. The worse that woman could do was make frowny faces at you.

[leggywillow]

berelinde wrote...

Amondra wrote...

Doesn't Anders also ask Merrill if she stumbled onto blood magic just by cutting herself and not consorting with a demon?

Yes, that is exactly what Anders asks her. From the Wiki:

Anders: So, when you first did blood magic, it was... just an accident, right?
Anders: You cut yourself and realized the power? You didn't actually deal with a demon?

Yep, he does say exactly that.  However, he also tells Fenris:

Anders: You know, to use blood magic you must look a demon in the eye and accept his offer. I just figured some of them would say no. For aesthetic reasons, if nothing else.

I'm thinking that you can do blood magic to a degree without demonic influence, but in order to perform more powerful spells (like the kind that Tevinter magisters would have used hundreds of slaves for), demons must be used?  That's the only way I can reconcile all the conflicting information we're getting.  But I still don't see why Anders would say that to Fenris here.  Given Fenris' already very negative opinions towards magic, you would think that Anders would play down the demon angle if anything.  ANDERS Y U CONFUSE ME SO.

Modifié par leggywillow, 31 juillet 2011 - 08:51 .

[Aggie Punbot]

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...

Poor, poor Jowan. The universe just hates him. He could sit perfectly still in the corner of his room, not touching anything and within minutes find that the room is suddenly on fire and that his toes are being chewed on by a plague-rat.

Sounds like Sam Winchester, really.

[Sepewrath]

Sam and Dean Winchester, the cause and solution to all of life's problems.

[ipgd]

Amondra wrote...

Sounds like it doesn't have to be learned from demons. However it does sound like something that happens naturally, in the sense. If Anders cut himself, he just as easily use it. What makes it forbidden is that people would want to use others blood so they don't have to worry about killing themselves, and it is like a drug, once you use it and see the boost it gives, that harder it is for you not to use it, and thus to start doing want I said earlier; using others blood as to get yourself kill by draining yourself dry.

Which is why Merrill's blood magic never bothered me. The worse that woman could do was make frowny faces at you.

From what I understand blood magic is forbidden because a) it's a much more readily available resource than lyrium-based magic, allowing the mage to cast powerful spells with less preparation, and blood magic specifically allows the mage to control minds and open the veil.

From the Blood Magic codex:

Foul and corrupt are you
Who have taken My gift
And turned it against My children.
--Transfigurations 18:10.

The ancient Tevinters did not originally consider blood magic a school of its own. Rather, they saw it as a means to achieve greater power in any school of magic. The name, of course, refers to the fact that magic of this type uses life, specifically in the form of blood, instead of mana. It was common practice, at one time, for a magister to keep a number of slaves on hand so that, should he undertake the working of a spell that was physically beyond his abilities, he could use the blood of his slaves to bolster the casting.

Over time, however, the Imperium discovered types of spells that could only be worked by blood. Although lyrium will allow a mage to send his conscious mind into the Fade, blood would allow him to find the sleeping minds of others, view their dreams, and even influence or dominate their thoughts. Just as treacherous, blood magic allows the Veil to be opened completely so that demons may physically pass through it into our world.

The rise of the Chant of Light and the subsequent fall of the old Imperium has led to blood magic being all but stamped out-as it should be, for it poses nearly as great a danger to those who would practice it as to the world at large.

--From The Four Schools: A Treatise, by First Enchanter Josephus.

Modifié par ipgd, 31 juillet 2011 - 09:16 .

[tmp7704]

leggywillow wrote...

berelinde wrote...

Amondra wrote...

Doesn't Anders also ask Merrill if she stumbled onto blood magic just by cutting herself and not consorting with a demon?

Yes, that is exactly what Anders asks her. From the Wiki:

Anders: So, when you first did blood magic, it was... just an accident, right?
Anders: You cut yourself and realized the power? You didn't actually deal with a demon?

Yep, he does say exactly that.

I don't think that could be more clear use of sarcasm if he put tags around it. I mean, it's Anders we are talking about.

[berelinde]

leggywillow wrote...
I'm thinking that you can do blood magic to a degree without demonic influence, but in order to perform more powerful spells (like the kind that Tevinter magisters would have used hundreds of slaves for), demons must be used?  That's the only way I can reconcile all the conflicting information we're getting.  But I still don't see why Anders would say that to Fenris here.  Given Fenris' already very negative opinions towards magic, you would think that Anders would play down the demon angle if anything.  ANDERS Y U CONFUSE ME SO.

That was my take on it as well. As for Anders's banter with Fenris, I'm not sure that Anders has the capacity to apply logic to his arguments. When he was completely human, he was probably rather good at it, but now, he has a different criteria for evaluating whether or not something is convincing. No, I'm not laying the blame for Anders's occasional WTF moments on Justice, or not exactly. I'm just saying that Anders's thought processes are alien to Thedas. He has the memory of how a human thinks, but to a certain extent, he processes data as a Fade spirit. I interpreted his banter with Fenris as "See, I am *not* an abomination, after all. If I were, I would be doing *this*!"

[Amondra]

ipgd wrote...

Amondra wrote...

Sounds like it doesn't have to be learned from demons. However it does sound like something that happens naturally, in the sense. If Anders cut himself, he just as easily use it. What makes it forbidden is that people would want to use others blood so they don't have to worry about killing themselves, and it is like a drug, once you use it and see the boost it gives, that harder it is for you not to use it, and thus to start doing want I said earlier; using others blood as to get yourself kill by draining yourself dry.

Which is why Merrill's blood magic never bothered me. The worse that woman could do was make frowny faces at you.

From what I understand blood magic is forbidden because a) it's a much more readily available resource than lyrium-based magic, allowing the mage to cast powerful spells with less preparation, and blood magic specifically allows the mage to control minds and open the veil.

From the Blood Magic codex:

Foul and corrupt are you
Who have taken My gift
And turned it against My children.
--Transfigurations 18:10.

The ancient Tevinters did not originally consider blood magic a school of its own. Rather, they saw it as a means to achieve greater power in any school of magic. The name, of course, refers to the fact that magic of this type uses life, specifically in the form of blood, instead of mana. It was common practice, at one time, for a magister to keep a number of slaves on hand so that, should he undertake the working of a spell that was physically beyond his abilities, he could use the blood of his slaves to bolster the casting.

Over time, however, the Imperium discovered types of spells that could only be worked by blood. Although lyrium will allow a mage to send his conscious mind into the Fade, blood would allow him to find the sleeping minds of others, view their dreams, and even influence or dominate their thoughts. Just as treacherous, blood magic allows the Veil to be opened completely so that demons may physically pass through it into our world.

The rise of the Chant of Light and the subsequent fall of the old Imperium has led to blood magic being all but stamped out-as it should be, for it poses nearly as great a danger to those who would practice it as to the world at large.

--From The Four Schools: A Treatise, by First Enchanter Josephus.

Ah. That makes sense. I didn't that codex, I must haved missed it.  Thanks!

[beckaliz]

Arquen wrote...

I have a mixed reception of Anders in the DLC. Honestly I will have to admit that I *facepalmed* at his refusal to believe the Tevinter Magister black city story until after we killed Coryphaeus and looted the amulet.

It was probably because I played him in Act 3, but he also just seemed more depressing and all around mopey. The banters I ended up getting were all about him complaining of being in the deep roads, complaining about the wardens, and going nuts. I did appreciate the DLC focusing on his Warden aspect as well. As he said in one banter it almost feels like he isn't a Warden sometimes because of all the Justice/Plight of mages. It's like the taint, the calling, the long walk, the darkspawn go all out the window in the game and this DLC really snaps it back to "you can't just leave the wardens."

Don't get me wrong it isn't like it made me like Anders any less, but I just felt he was so melodramatic at times. Like REALLY??? The chantry just made up the whole **** story about Magisters entering the Golden city JUST so they could propaganda against all mages? I just.. *facepalmed* -- where is that tinfoil hat picture again? Someone forgot to put it on this morning!

Wow is this necro if it was only 9 hours ago? Lots of stuff in the last couple days. Hahaha I've been stuck on tumblr.

[ipgd]

tmp7704 wrote...

I don't think that could be more clear use of sarcasm if he put tags around it. I mean, it's Anders we are talking about.

The tone he uses isn't sarcastic. Incredulous, but not disingenuous.

[beckaliz]

I'm reminded of Anders's short story, where the blood splashes in his mouth while he's Janders-ified and he's like OOHHH MAKER THAT'S GOOD. (paraphrasing)

I like the idea that Justice busting out would make a small tear in the Veil briefly through which shades can slip. :B

Regarding Justice's take on blood magic: Remember that Justice is not exactly a rational entity anymore.

[tmp7704]

ipgd wrote...

The tone he uses isn't sarcastic. Incredulous, but not disingenuous.

Isn't posing a question with tone clearly implying you don't believe it to be an actual possibility... exactly what "disingenuous "is?

[SurelyForth]

Also...isn't Anders' Martyr skill basically Blood Magic 101? Trading lifeforce to power spells?

[beckaliz]

SurelyForth wrote...

Also...isn't Anders' Martyr skill basically Blood Magic 101? Trading lifeforce to power spells?

This.

The Vengeance abilities are totes like some special variety of blood magic.

Modifié par beckaliz, 31 juillet 2011 - 09:47 .

[Amondra]

SurelyForth wrote...

Also...isn't Anders' Martyr skill basically Blood Magic 101? Trading lifeforce to power spells?

It's Blood Magic for greater justice! completely okay.

Remember Justice can justify anything...after all he is a spirit of justice;)

[beckaliz]

Just because I feel like it, because I saw it while browsing for the tinfoil hat picture.

Modifié par beckaliz, 31 juillet 2011 - 09:54 .

[tmp7704]

Depends on what exactly it is that he is 'trading' (the description says it's "health") I mean, mana is also sort of a "lifeforce" but it doesn't make anyone treat regular magic as blood magic 101.

edit: meh, Alicorn totally pulls that off better

Modifié par tmp7704, 31 juillet 2011 - 09:59 .