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The Anders Thread: Flash Fic Contest! Details on Pg. 2274


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#50701
Sinaxi

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Heidenreich wrote...

berelinde wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...
You I know this Idea of Templar that end up falling for a  Mage  and they were going to make the mage tranquil for something  Mage did not do and the Templar rebelled  both of now on the run  

Rebel Templar ... DO WANT.     I would so play that part very well.

That sounds like amondra's Thera Hawke, except for the part where they make Anders tranquil. They'd have to catch Anders first. And it's a very good character concept, IMO.



*It's really how they should have introduced Cullen. An optional character you get only if you're a circle mage and heavy-handed flirt with Cullen durring your origin. When they threaten to tranquil you, and you go off with the GW, then return to the circle, he ops to go with the GW to "protect the warden" ;x

Ser Gillmore for Cousland, Cullen for Circle Mage, Leske for Broska/whats-his-name for DN, Sorris for CE, and whats-his-name who goes to look for Tamlen with you for DE..  but only if you choose the right dialog options.


Ewww. Ser Gilmore was like, gross. Ahaha, so were the 2 people you could sex in the beginning of the Origins tale. The guy was way gross compared to the girl. Lol. Screwing with Cullen in the Mage Origin is too funny, my character never actually liked him and just wanted to see him squirm. He runs away so funny.

My Cousland + Alistair is too = awww. Ser Gilmore is just no.

Fenris/Anders seriously makes no sense. Lol, I get that people love the whole "omg they hate each other, passionate sex!!" but yeah. No.

It seems like a lot of you agree you want to start from where we left off sort of in DA2, finishing up the whole Mage/Templar war. I know a lot of other people on this forum basically just want a whole new character, in a whole new place. Which..bugs me. >.> 

Modifié par Tidra, 05 août 2011 - 05:43 .


#50702
SurelyForth

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DAYtheELF wrote...

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...


Other than the fact that the sheer and utter hatred they have for each other makes Alistair and Morrigan look positively cuddly in comparison? :P  Maybe Anders saw turning Fenris over as an appropriate retribution for supporting a system he sees as slavery.


And since we know one of the ways THAT can turn out at the end of Origins, I think we should have had a similiar option in DA2.... :whistle:


Did you know that Alistair can turn down the ritual with a Warden he loves if she's completely honest with him and does not persuade him? He does not, in any way shape or form, want to do the ritual. At all.

But I've said before, Anders approving of Fenris going back to Danarius makes so much sense to me. It's not a pleasant side of his character, but it's one that is consistent with his Awakening self. If he doesn't like someone he doesn't like someone and their life isn't terribly important to him. In my opinion, he saves his compassion for those he thinks deserves it or who would show compassion for others. Fenris, because of his hatred of mages and insistence on vocally supporting the Chantry system despite abuses which mirror the very situation he escaped, does not deserve it.

Anders by Pyromaniac03
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Modifié par SurelyForth, 05 août 2011 - 06:03 .


#50703
Sinaxi

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Yeah, a lot of Fenris fans hate the fact that he makes that comment. I mean, I know it's not nice at all..but I kind of end up laughing every time he says it because of how ridiculously dick-ish it sounds. "HAH! I thought I was the only one thinking of that!" It's like a total joke to him haha. I had Isabela in my party too when that happened and all she could say was like "Wait...we're giving him back..?" And then just sort of stopped talking.

Reminds me of how they hate when he is all "Or did the beast finally turn on you?" when he comes to Hawke Estate. That's just Anders, being Anders. He's super petty about some things because his personality takes basically everything to the max one way or another. (And when it comes to Hawke he gets ultra ultra petty) But it's ok. I still think it's cute.

Edit- That picture is awesome! Oh, and...I think it really doesn't matter either way...because imagine if you handed over Anders to the Circle. Fenris would probably get like 100+ approval points. Lol.

Modifié par Tidra, 05 août 2011 - 06:06 .


#50704
nitefyre410

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Tidra wrote...

Heidenreich wrote...

berelinde wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...
You I know this Idea of Templar that end up falling for a  Mage  and they were going to make the mage tranquil for something  Mage did not do and the Templar rebelled  both of now on the run  

Rebel Templar ... DO WANT.     I would so play that part very well.

That sounds like amondra's Thera Hawke, except for the part where they make Anders tranquil. They'd have to catch Anders first. And it's a very good character concept, IMO.



*It's really how they should have introduced Cullen. An optional character you get only if you're a circle mage and heavy-handed flirt with Cullen durring your origin. When they threaten to tranquil you, and you go off with the GW, then return to the circle, he ops to go with the GW to "protect the warden" ;x

Ser Gillmore for Cousland, Cullen for Circle Mage, Leske for Broska/whats-his-name for DN, Sorris for CE, and whats-his-name who goes to look for Tamlen with you for DE..  but only if you choose the right dialog options.


Ewww. Ser Gilmore was like, gross. Ahaha, so were the 2 people you could sex in the beginning of the Origins tale. The guy was way gross compared to the girl. Lol. Screwing with Cullen in the Mage Origin is too funny, my character never actually liked him and just wanted to see him squirm. He runs away so funny.

My Cousland + Alistair is too = awww. Ser Gilmore is just no.

Fenris/Anders seriously makes no sense. Lol, I get that people love the whole "omg they hate each other, passionate sex!!" but yeah. No.

It seems like a lot of you agree you want to start from where we left off sort of in DA2, finishing up the whole Mage/Templar war. I know a lot of other people on this forum basically just want a whole new character, in a whole new place. Which..bugs me. >.> 



Oh I  Don't  mind the new character  matter of ...  make the Character a Templar that rebel against the order to  protect a mage he cared,   Brother/sister/ friend/lover  and not only do you get the Mage/Templar conflict  you get your new characters as well   Posted Image

#50705
Sinaxi

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Well I meant like, a lot of them also just don't even want to deal with the whole Mage/Templar thing at all. Which I find absurd because with so much build up and then not playing it all out would suck.

#50706
nitefyre410

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SurelyForth wrote...

DAYtheELF wrote...

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...


Other than the fact that the sheer and utter hatred they have for each other makes Alistair and Morrigan look positively cuddly in comparison? :P  Maybe Anders saw turning Fenris over as an appropriate retribution for supporting a system he sees as slavery.


And since we know one of the ways THAT can turn out at the end of Origins, I think we should have had a similiar option in DA2.... :whistle:

*snip*
Anders by Pyromaniac03
Posted Image



Now see this pic is perfect example of  what I was saying in another thread that was lacking  from  both  DA:O and DA 2.

Pulling the  me the player in.

Lots look at his boat load of awesome -  the grim expression -  blood spattler and lighting.  Now how much more moving would it be to see  Anders like that in game defending a Mage that  is wounded from a Templar at the end of the game surrounded.  How much of impact would siding with Mages would  had if you could see just  how desperately they are fighting and the odds they face.    

#50707
nitefyre410

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Tidra wrote...

Well I meant like, a lot of them also just don't even want to deal with the whole Mage/Templar thing at all. Which I find absurd because with so much build up and then not playing it all out would suck.



because Its too much a of  grey issues and  its not a very cut and dry   cliche' Good and Evil story like which the Darkspawn.

#50708
Sinaxi

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Yeah, that's why I prefer it though. DA:O was great don't get me wrong, but even though DA2 might not have done everything "perfect" Act 2 and Act 3 were like "Woaah!" for me. Mostly because the Arishok is a total BAMF, and then Anders is of course, a total BAMF and it just gets me every time after siding with Mages how Hawke & Crew just uh..walk out of a burning city like it's nothing. It makes me smile. Haha.

#50709
CulturalGeekGirl

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Hopefully we don't spend another ten pages on this like we did last time, but I'll be the voice for Fenders for a bit.

There are a few ways that it goes. One is, yes, the whole "rawr angry sex is hot" way. And that's... fine. Then there's its close cousin - desperation, unrequited Hawke-love for both of them, a chance encounter, an ounce of comfort. That one I like a bit better.

Sometimes it's all about them both stopping being complete morons for like five minutes and having a conversation. "Barely even friends, then somebody bends, unexpectedly." This is my favorite, naturally, because I always want everyone to have that moment where they learn to listen, where they learn to keep the god damn scorn out of their voices for a few minutes. A common reasoning behind fenders is that the writers like both characters, and don't want to see either of them sad and lonely at the end of the game. Now arguably, non-romanced Fenris gets Izzy, but still!

Then there's the countless AUs and what-ifs, which are probably more believable. And yes I know AU blah blah it isn't the same blah blah. Doesn't matter, the characters are still the characters, and they're cute. Often the AUs remove the complication of Justice, and I think that helps... without Anders' status as an abomination, we lose the thing that prevents Fenris from lumping him in with the "good" mages like Hawke and Bethany.

Really, it's the abomination thing that makes the hate between them shine so brightly, and that's the one thing that has to be discussed or fixed or reconciled. The thing is, Fenris can't conceive of anyone doing what Anders did for any reason other than personal gain, or out of weakness. Those aren't the reasons that Anders did it, though, not really. I think there's real value in making Fenris understand the nuances there, and also making Fenris understand that desperate mages in chains are as dangerous as ubermages in power, and that the best solution lies somewhere in the middle.

I can understand the view that both characters are just too stubborn and obstinate to ever be capable of a rational discussion, even under extreme circumstances or with Hawke refereeing, but I like to imagine our boys are a little better than that, that some of their worse fancies and more extreme craziness is manageable, and can eventually be moderated by reason.

#50710
Sinaxi

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This seems fitting.

Posted Image

They're never going to do each other. I promise you all.

Modifié par Tidra, 05 août 2011 - 07:09 .


#50711
Sialater

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CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Hopefully we don't spend another ten pages on this like we did last time, but I'll be the voice for Fenders for a bit.

There are a few ways that it goes. One is, yes, the whole "rawr angry sex is hot" way. And that's... fine. Then there's its close cousin - desperation, unrequited Hawke-love for both of them, a chance encounter, an ounce of comfort. That one I like a bit better.

Sometimes it's all about them both stopping being complete morons for like five minutes and having a conversation. "Barely even friends, then somebody bends, unexpectedly." This is my favorite, naturally, because I always want everyone to have that moment where they learn to listen, where they learn to keep the god damn scorn out of their voices for a few minutes. A common reasoning behind fenders is that the writers like both characters, and don't want to see either of them sad and lonely at the end of the game. Now arguably, non-romanced Fenris gets Izzy, but still!

Then there's the countless AUs and what-ifs, which are probably more believable. And yes I know AU blah blah it isn't the same blah blah. Doesn't matter, the characters are still the characters, and they're cute. Often the AUs remove the complication of Justice, and I think that helps... without Anders' status as an abomination, we lose the thing that prevents Fenris from lumping him in with the "good" mages like Hawke and Bethany.

Really, it's the abomination thing that makes the hate between them shine so brightly, and that's the one thing that has to be discussed or fixed or reconciled. The thing is, Fenris can't conceive of anyone doing what Anders did for any reason other than personal gain, or out of weakness. Those aren't the reasons that Anders did it, though, not really. I think there's real value in making Fenris understand the nuances there, and also making Fenris understand that desperate mages in chains are as dangerous as ubermages in power, and that the best solution lies somewhere in the middle.

I can understand the view that both characters are just too stubborn and obstinate to ever be capable of a rational discussion, even under extreme circumstances or with Hawke refereeing, but I like to imagine our boys are a little better than that, that some of their worse fancies and more extreme craziness is manageable, and can eventually be moderated by reason.


I can only see them talking if Hawke referees.  Still not sure about anything further, though.  Not unless it's very far down the road.

#50712
nitefyre410

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Tidra wrote...

This seems fitting.

Posted Image

They're never going to do each other. I promise you all.



Which is why dispite the fact that my  Hawke likes em both He wants to slap the Maker given  **** out them at times.  Their  so different sides of the same coin.

With is why  Varric and Isabella are his  drink buddies he gets away from these two for a while and if just wants  quiet he goes  see's  Merrill.

#50713
CulturalGeekGirl

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I also... ahem... can completely understand doing a thing with a person who you are really, really not compatible with long-term. Like at all. Because sometimes they say something funny and their hair falls in front of their face and you know they're an ***hole, they've told you they're an ***hole, you've seen them be an ***hole, but you also know that deep inside there is something hurt and confused and completely trustworthy, in its own weird way. So you say "what the hell, you only live once."

Ahem. Not that anything like that has ever happened to me or anything.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 05 août 2011 - 07:28 .


#50714
nitefyre410

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CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

I also... ahem... can completely understand doing a thing with a person who you are really, really not compatible with long-term. Like at all. Because sometimes they say something funny and their hair falls in front of their face and you know they're an ***hole, they've told you they're an ***hole, you've seen them be an ***hole, but you also know that deep inside there is something hurt and confused and completely trustworthy, in its own weird way. So you say "what the hell, you only live once."

Ahem. Not that anything like that has ever happened to me or anything.



you secret is safe  with me   Posted Image 

#50715
Sinaxi

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Well. I'm also not that big a fan of slash with two characters that already hate each other. I have no issue that all the characters can be romanced by males or females, though it seems a bit...untrue.

That, and, from Awakenings while Anders does seem to be a pretty equal-opportunity lover he seems to lean more towards women. There's that, and the whole fact that they really only have him mention Karl being his lover on a male playthrough which I feel is sort of dumb..as if they don't want the "female" Hawke players knowing right off the bat that he was more than a friend with Karl. I know I read something where Hepler was like "oh, well we just figured he wouldn't want to mention it to a female Hawke right away" like ehhh...okay? Idk. The fact that they made all of them BI is great given anyone can experience the romances, but I also feel like it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for every single one of them to be available in that way.

Mass Effect I would totally romance one of the females but they aren't all gay so I just am like ok whatever lol it's not a big deal to me (and they have countless romance options so it makes it not bad). I just think it's very odd that they purposely decided to leave out him mentioning his relationship with Karl on a female run-through when the player basically already knows each of them can be romanced anyways with a male or female. Eh.

#50716
SurelyForth

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CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Hopefully we don't spend another ten pages on this like we did last time, but I'll be the voice for Fenders for a bit.

There are a few ways that it goes. One is, yes, the whole "rawr angry sex is hot" way. And that's... fine. Then there's its close cousin - desperation, unrequited Hawke-love for both of them, a chance encounter, an ounce of comfort. That one I like a bit better.

Sometimes it's all about them both stopping being complete morons for like five minutes and having a conversation. "Barely even friends, then somebody bends, unexpectedly." This is my favorite, naturally, because I always want everyone to have that moment where they learn to listen, where they learn to keep the god damn scorn out of their voices for a few minutes. A common reasoning behind fenders is that the writers like both characters, and don't want to see either of them sad and lonely at the end of the game. Now arguably, non-romanced Fenris gets Izzy, but still!

Then there's the countless AUs and what-ifs, which are probably more believable. And yes I know AU blah blah it isn't the same blah blah. Doesn't matter, the characters are still the characters, and they're cute. Often the AUs remove the complication of Justice, and I think that helps... without Anders' status as an abomination, we lose the thing that prevents Fenris from lumping him in with the "good" mages like Hawke and Bethany.

Really, it's the abomination thing that makes the hate between them shine so brightly, and that's the one thing that has to be discussed or fixed or reconciled. The thing is, Fenris can't conceive of anyone doing what Anders did for any reason other than personal gain, or out of weakness. Those aren't the reasons that Anders did it, though, not really. I think there's real value in making Fenris understand the nuances there, and also making Fenris understand that desperate mages in chains are as dangerous as ubermages in power, and that the best solution lies somewhere in the middle.

I can understand the view that both characters are just too stubborn and obstinate to ever be capable of a rational discussion, even under extreme circumstances or with Hawke refereeing, but I like to imagine our boys are a little better than that, that some of their worse fancies and more extreme craziness is manageable, and can eventually be moderated by reason.


I think that they have no interest in each other as people, even outside of Anders' status as an abomination. If he wasn't with Justice, Anders is still mages, mages, mages, mages, mages! He's way more into mages than Beth or Merrill, and being against mages in Awakening gets you all kinds of disapproval.

And you know what Anders said when he's at low approval and you click on him? "Just die already."

It's like I said before- Anders doesn't like the people he doesn't like. Without Justice, he wouldn't even be desperate for companionship, because he wouldn't have that sense of being an abomination and he could get what he needed elsewhere.

Then there's this- what about them is attractive to the other? Why would he turn to Fenris? Fenris only helps people when he's with Hawke. Isabela frees slaves on her own. Aveline is a guard. Varric pays off the coterie/thugs to keep Anders and Merrill safe. Bethany advocates for helping apostates on several occasions. Fenris is hateful, Fenris takes effort and you pretty much have to see something worthwhile in order to take that effort, and I just don't know what Anders, with or without Justice, would see in Fenris that would make him want to try.  I mean, even before he knows Anders is an abomination, Fenris is calling him a viper. Anders, without Justice, doesn't take that **** quietly. He takes it personally. It's why he merges with Justice in the first place.

And what would Fenris see in Anders? He's not impressed by Anders helping refugees, or helping Hawke. He's impressed with Isabela freeing slaves. He's, I think, impressed with Aveline for being a guard and Bethany for having her head on straight (although he still encourages her to go to the Circle). He's self-centered and almost unshakably so, yet he's also not really doing anything to help other slaves, or even other elves. One of the reasons Anders joined with Justice was because he was disgusted with himself for being so self-centered...why would he find that appealling in someone else who is also against everything he believes in?

Modifié par SurelyForth, 05 août 2011 - 07:55 .


#50717
Heidenreich

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SurelyForth wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Hopefully we don't spend another ten pages on this like we did last time, but I'll be the voice for Fenders for a bit.

There are a few ways that it goes. One is, yes, the whole "rawr angry sex is hot" way. And that's... fine. Then there's its close cousin - desperation, unrequited Hawke-love for both of them, a chance encounter, an ounce of comfort. That one I like a bit better.

Sometimes it's all about them both stopping being complete morons for like five minutes and having a conversation. "Barely even friends, then somebody bends, unexpectedly." This is my favorite, naturally, because I always want everyone to have that moment where they learn to listen, where they learn to keep the god damn scorn out of their voices for a few minutes. A common reasoning behind fenders is that the writers like both characters, and don't want to see either of them sad and lonely at the end of the game. Now arguably, non-romanced Fenris gets Izzy, but still!

Then there's the countless AUs and what-ifs, which are probably more believable. And yes I know AU blah blah it isn't the same blah blah. Doesn't matter, the characters are still the characters, and they're cute. Often the AUs remove the complication of Justice, and I think that helps... without Anders' status as an abomination, we lose the thing that prevents Fenris from lumping him in with the "good" mages like Hawke and Bethany.

Really, it's the abomination thing that makes the hate between them shine so brightly, and that's the one thing that has to be discussed or fixed or reconciled. The thing is, Fenris can't conceive of anyone doing what Anders did for any reason other than personal gain, or out of weakness. Those aren't the reasons that Anders did it, though, not really. I think there's real value in making Fenris understand the nuances there, and also making Fenris understand that desperate mages in chains are as dangerous as ubermages in power, and that the best solution lies somewhere in the middle.

I can understand the view that both characters are just too stubborn and obstinate to ever be capable of a rational discussion, even under extreme circumstances or with Hawke refereeing, but I like to imagine our boys are a little better than that, that some of their worse fancies and more extreme craziness is manageable, and can eventually be moderated by reason.


I think that they have no interest in each other as people, even outside of Anders' status as an abomination. If he wasn't with Justice, Anders is still mages, mages, mages, mages, mages! He's way more into mages than Beth or Merrill, and being against mages in Awakening gets you all kinds of disapproval.

And you know what Anders said when he's at low approval and you click on him? "Just die already."

It's like I said before- Anders doesn't like the people he doesn't like. Without Justice, he wouldn't even be desperate for companionship, because he wouldn't have that sense of being an abomination and he could get what he needed elsewhere.

Then there's this- what about them is attractive to the other? Why would he turn to Fenris? Fenris only helps people when he's with Hawke. Isabela frees slaves on her own. Aveline is a guard. Varric pays off the coterie/thugs to keep Anders and Merrill safe. Bethany advocates for helping apostates on several occasions. Fenris is hateful, Fenris takes effort and you pretty much have to see something worthwhile in order to take that effort, and I just don't know what Anders, with or without Justice, would see in Fenris that would make him want to try.  I mean, even before he knows Anders is an abomination, Fenris is calling him a viper. Anders, without Justice, doesn't take that **** quietly. He takes it personally. It's why he merges with Justice in the first place.

And what would Fenris see in Anders? He's not impressed by Anders helping refugees, or helping Hawke. He's impressed with Isabela freeing slaves. He's, I think, impressed with Aveline for being a guard and Bethany for having her head on straight (although he still encourages her to go to the Circle). He's self-centered and almost unshakably so, yet he's also not really doing anything to help other slaves, or even other elves. One of the reasons Anders joined with Justice was because he was disgusted with himself for being so self-centered...why would he find that appealling in someone else who is also against everything he believes in?





*drive-by-licks-surely*
:wub:

#50718
Sinaxi

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SurelyForth wrote...

I think that they have no interest in each other as people, even outside of Anders' status as an abomination. If he wasn't with Justice, Anders is still mages, mages, mages, mages, mages! He's way more into mages than Beth or Merrill, and being against mages in Awakening gets you all kinds of disapproval.

And you know what Anders said when he's at low approval and you click on him? "Just die already."

It's like I said before- Anders doesn't like the people he doesn't like. Without Justice, he wouldn't even be desperate for companionship, because he wouldn't have that sense of being an abomination and he could get what he needed elsewhere.

Then there's this- what about them is attractive to the other? Why would he turn to Fenris? Fenris only helps people when he's with Hawke. Isabela frees slaves on her own. Aveline is a guard. Varric pays off the coterie/thugs to keep Anders and Merrill safe. Bethany advocates for helping apostates on several occasions. Fenris is hateful, Fenris takes effort and you pretty much have to see something worthwhile in order to take that effort, and I just don't know what Anders, with or without Justice, would see in Fenris that would make him want to try.  I mean, even before he knows Anders is an abomination, Fenris is calling him a viper. Anders, without Justice, doesn't take that **** quietly. He takes it personally. It's why he merges with Justice in the first place.

And what would Fenris see in Anders? He's not impressed by Anders helping refugees, or helping Hawke. He's impressed with Isabela freeing slaves. He's, I think, impressed with Aveline for being a guard and Bethany for having her head on straight (although he still encourages her to go to the Circle). He's self-centered and almost unshakably so, yet he's also not really doing anything to help other slaves, or even other elves. One of the reasons Anders joined with Justice was because he was disgusted with himself for being so self-centered...why would he find that appealling in someone else who is also against everything he believes in?


Well said. That's why I think overall the entire idea is ridiculous. I have absolutely no issues with people being fans of it in any way, but in the long run I think it is a silly notion that makes absolutely no sense within the realm of both of their characters. You also pointed out many reasons in my second playthrough I really just couldn't stand Fenris anymore. I tolerated him in my first playthrough since I was trying to romance him (I had heard he was one of the best romance options, but that was from like some pro-Fenris thing I read lol), and then I basically realized I couldn't stand him at all.

I sympathize with him, I do, but he does absolutely nothing but complain. If he hates Mages so much why doesn't he go around and kill all of them or round them all up? I feel like he just follows Hawke around because he truly has nothing better to do and doesn't want to put effort into doing anything but complaining, which is why he is all "Ok. You tell Hawke that then." to Sebastian when Sebastian suggests turning in the Mages...he doesn't even want to deal with the mess. I know Anders complains, but at least he is actually helping people and can say that instead of just complaining about the Circle he has actually done something in regards to that complaining.

But, eh. Just my opinion. I liked him a lot in my first playthrough, but by the second I was like mad at myself for ever romancing him. It also pissed me off in my second playthrough how he was at full friendship with me, and in Act 3 when I'm trying to be a good friend and I tell him he still has people who care about him he is all "OH. YEAH. A Mage for my ONLY friend." My Hawke was like "UHH, KAY. Go **** yourself, Fenris." >.>

#50719
Heidenreich

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Tidra wrote...


Well said. That's why I think overall the entire idea is ridiculous. I have absolutely no issues with people being fans of it in any way, but in the long run I think it is a silly notion that makes absolutely no sense within the realm of both of their characters. You also pointed out many reasons in my second playthrough I really just couldn't stand Fenris anymore. I tolerated him in my first playthrough since I was trying to romance him (I had heard he was one of the best romance options, but that was from like some pro-Fenris thing I read lol), and then I basically realized I couldn't stand him at all.

I sympathize with him, I do, but he does absolutely nothing but complain. If he hates Mages so much why doesn't he go around and kill all of them or round them all up? I feel like he just follows Hawke around because he truly has nothing better to do and doesn't want to put effort into doing anything but complaining, which is why he is all "Ok. You tell Hawke that then." to Sebastian when Sebastian suggests turning in the Mages...he doesn't even want to deal with the mess. I know Anders complains, but at least he is actually helping people and can say that instead of just complaining about the Circle he has actually done something in regards to that complaining.

But, eh. Just my opinion. I liked him a lot in my first playthrough, but by the second I was like mad at myself for ever romancing him. It also pissed me off in my second playthrough how he was at full friendship with me, and in Act 3 when I'm trying to be a good friend and I tell him he still has people who care about him he is all "OH. YEAH. A Mage for my ONLY friend." My Hawke was like "UHH, KAY. Go **** yourself, Fenris." >.>



HISS! <_<

I.. there are no words. I feel like a frothing Fen-girl when I read this, Tidra. and I'm totally going to turn into one in a minute too because at my core I -am-. He's my prefered, because of at least 2 dozen different reasons. He has his own neuances. The  "Oh, yes, a Mage.. my only friend" comment isn't hateful towards Hawke. Its self-hateful. In that, its still very hard for him to understand -why- he feels so drawn to a mage hawke when up until that point in his life Mages have never been anything but abusive and power hungry.

Which is why, as a Mage, I rival him. It makes little sense for him to genuinly find friendship with a mage, even a strong mage like Hawke. But, the right kind of hawke can be worth respecting, and even eventually loving and trusting.. because a Mage hawke is unlike any mage he(fenris) has ever met in his remembered life.

Fenris is very much in the Anders-Awakening stage. In Awakening Anders is very selfish. He cares about mages, yes, but only to the degree of himself. He even tells Justice as much. "yes I care, but uh.. actually helping would probably be the removal of my life, and I sort of like my life.. so yea no thanks."

Where as Anders has moved past his selfish stage, and moved on to his helpful stage. Yes, you can say that anders has -always- been helpful, but previous to Justice, his helpfulness was very selfish or something new he wasn't quite sure how to explain... much like Isabela's impromptu freeing of slaves. She isn't sure why she did it, it goes against everything she is.. but she just couldn't BE a slaver, in the end, for that situation.

Huff.. I'll stop before I litterally froth. I <3 anders with every ounce of my soul.. except for all the parts with Fenris in it :P

#50720
beckaliz

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He says that? :( Fenris fail.

I was angry with Anders after my first PT but I got over it.

#50721
Sinaxi

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Heidenreich wrote...
HISS! <_<

I.. there are no words. I feel like a frothing Fen-girl when I read this, Tidra. and I'm totally going to turn into one in a minute too because at my core I -am-. He's my prefered, because of at least 2 dozen different reasons. He has his own neuances. The  "Oh, yes, a Mage.. my only friend" comment isn't hateful towards Hawke. Its self-hateful. In that, its still very hard for him to understand -why- he feels so drawn to a mage hawke when up until that point in his life Mages have never been anything but abusive and power hungry.

Which is why, as a Mage, I rival him. It makes little sense for him to genuinly find friendship with a mage, even a strong mage like Hawke. But, the right kind of hawke can be worth respecting, and even eventually loving and trusting.. because a Mage hawke is unlike any mage he(fenris) has ever met in his remembered life.

Fenris is very much in the Anders-Awakening stage. In Awakening Anders is very selfish. He cares about mages, yes, but only to the degree of himself. He even tells Justice as much. "yes I care, but uh.. actually helping would probably be the removal of my life, and I sort of like my life.. so yea no thanks."

Where as Anders has moved past his selfish stage, and moved on to his helpful stage. Yes, you can say that anders has -always- been helpful, but previous to Justice, his helpfulness was very selfish or something new he wasn't quite sure how to explain... much like Isabela's impromptu freeing of slaves. She isn't sure why she did it, it goes against everything she is.. but she just couldn't BE a slaver, in the end, for that situation.


I figured I came across as being too harsh, but your explanation I also do agree with. I know when he says it he is feeling self-hatred, but that's another reason I kind of hate it too. I am sitting there, trying to comfort him, and it's like he hates me and he hates himself for being my friend. It is just kind of depressing and I have known the guy for several years at this point, and it's like he still doesn't accept *ME* for just ME. I know he has gone through stuff with Danarius, stuff that I have also ended up helping him go through. I mean, maybe it's the voice actor. Gideon Emery is great but several of his lines end up sounding the same due to the whole "deep voice" thing. The line itself came across to me as being self-hateful, and sort of "UGH. Yes. YOU'RE my friend. How utterly sucky for me." And that is again, just my opinion. I was pretty floored when I heard it, because previously I had gotten the romance dialogue in that particular scene. So I was like wow, THANKSSS.

I didn't mean Anders was helpful in Awakening, I was specifically referring only to DA2. I still believe that Fenris honestly follows Hawke around for lack of anything else to do, (which most of them do, including Isabela) which is understandable he is trying to find his place in life. But at the same time while people get mad about sending him back to Danarius (which is terrible and I don't ever do) I think it is almost just as bad to let him go through with killing his sister. It's like, he doesn't even want answers from her. He finds out she is a Mage, she betrayed him, and neck snap. It's worth it to keep her alive just so he knows that his markings were of his own doing, not something that was forced upon him.

#50722
Dark_Rogue

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Anders...Y U DO THESE THINGS?!  There's such a darker side to you, but it only draws us fangirls in closer...and then you break our hearts! J/K :lol:

I, for one, really liked Ander's backstory in DA2.  I found him hilarious in Awakening and always brought him with my Warden, I know a lot of people complain that his character was 'ruined' in the sequel but I think it was just a development to it.  I mean, it's been a few years between the end of Origins and the start of DA2, the guy can't be cheery and perky all the time, the world's gotta grind him down sometime, and I guess Justice's banter made him see how he was living his life selfishly and not caring for anyone else (other than Ser Pounce-A-Lot, that adorable kitty =3) and opened his eyes to the plight of the mages being crushed under the heels of the Templars.  He's just in a constant struggle to try and retain his control (especially reading the codex entries on his character, so sad...) and I feel for the guy: he was trying to make the world a better place for his own kind, so no-one would go through what he did, or possibly go to the extremes he did to try and accomplish his goals.

I appreciated his intentions, but not his methods.  I really believed there would have been a compromise if he hadn't have taken matters into his own hands (I'm a natural neutral IRL too...) but he seemed to make things x10,000 worse for my poor Hawke.  After three playthroughs I still can't bring myself to kill him, that cat-loving, sweet-talking, sparklefingered mage! :pinched:

#50723
CulturalGeekGirl

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As for why Anders and Fenris would be interested in each other, well... sometimes you start with physical attraction and everything shakes out from there. Here I'm going less from personal experience and more from observation, but it's true. That's how a lot of the better Fenders stories start... a moment of unexpected closeness when they both forget for a moment who the other is, and they're just people.

I thought I was going to avoid the embarrassingly revelatory personal anecdote here, but then I thought of one. Why does this thread make me bare my very soul?

So, college, mandatory community service project with the whole class. We go on busses to this park and pick up crap. I go with the super ambitious group, the one that is wading into the river and pulling out abandoned shopping carts. By the end of the day, I'm one of the last people on the bus. I'm dry now, but filthy and tired. I take the last available seat next to someone I barely see, and I fall asleep.

A year later I'm talking to this guy that I'm dating, and he lets me know that back on that bus I fell asleep... on him. That I had my head on his shoulder the entire bus ride back to campus. I have no memory of this; well, I remember the clean-up and the bus ride, but not him, not so much. He doesn't say it, but I can tell that it certainly helped spark his interest in me.

And I can see Fenris and Anders starting with something like that. Some moment where the fact that there's another human being (well... sort-of human being) near you and it's nice and why can't more things be this nice? Only instead of waking up groggily to realize you've fallen asleep on a stranger, you realize that you're spooning your worst enemy, or that his hands are on you healing you, or whatever. Alternatively, maybe you catch them being especially good, or heroic, or vulnerable and it makes you see a side of them you never wanted to admit existed. And maybe that's nothing. Maybe you run from it nine times out of ten. But maybe one of those times it makes you stop and think. Maybe one of those times you ask yourself if the fighting hasn't gone on just too long, if you aren't both making things worse.

I'll agree that there's little and less (to steal a phrase from George RR Martin) that would logically make Anders and Fenris decide to be interested enough in each other to sit down and talk. But the heart isn't logical. And once they break through that crust of stupid hatred, there's a really interesting dynamic there that pulls me in: if they learn to respect each other, it makes them both better people. They can both learn a great deal from each other, more than they can learn from Hawke, really, and all it takes is breaking the crust on the top. Fenris can teach Anders that all mages aren't simply innocent victims, that they have the capacity to be as awful as everyone else, which is something Anders forgets way, way too often. Anders can teach Fenris that a mage, even a scary, out-of-control mage, is still also a person. And so much more... once it gets started.

True, it's the getting to the point that is the hardest part (I'm stealing lines from EVERYWHERE today), but that moment when you're just close to an acquaintance or a stranger and you think "man, why doesn't everyone just hug everyone all the time" does happen, and I think it happens more often than we'll admit. A friend of mine has a similar story to the one above. She was on a flight to France, stuck in the middle seat, prepared for misery. When you're in the middle seat, your entire job is to not get too close to other people, to not lean over too far either way, to not "make any trouble." There's this french girl in the window seat, so that's good, it wasn't one of those flights where you're stuck between two massive dudes who take both the arm rests without thinking. They're sitting together, and the sides of their arms touch. There's nowhere for my friend to go, because on her other side IS a burly dude, so she waits for the French girl to pull away, like you do on airplanes, and she doesn't. She just sits there, as if platonic contact with other human beings wasn't a horrible taboo in our society. And so my friend doesn't pull away either. They don't say anything the entire flight, they don't even know if they share a language, but when one of them leans into the other they don't apologize, when one of them falls asleep they aren't paranoid they might tilt slightly and cause eternal humiliation, and the flight is, generally, a hundred times more comfortable than it is when everyone is paranoid and uptight about their personal space. I'm not saying this works for everyone, or advocating mandatory plane-wide snuggling, but it's an interesting case study on the whole... cultural expectations thing.

Ok, that was a lengthy aside, but there is a POINT to it, I promise. Incidental physical closeness is a powerful thing, and it's something that I think it's entirely in-character for either of our boys to respond to. A lot of people see incidental physical closeness as a stupid plot device like the blanket or the shower, but I think it's much less unrealistic than those things. There is a huge barrier to Fenris and Anders making that first bend, that first step, that first concession, I'm not denying that. But there are a bunch of ways to get them past it, and once they are, there is so much gold there.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 05 août 2011 - 09:29 .


#50724
SurelyForth

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CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Ok, that was a lengthy aside, but there is a POINT to it, I promise. Incidental physical closeness is a powerful thing, and it's something that I think it's entirely in-character for either of our boys to respond to. A lot of people see incidental physical closeness as a stupid plot device like the blanket or the shower, but I think it's much less unrealistic than those things. There is a huge barrier to Fenris and Anders making that first bend, that first step, that first concession, I'm not denying that. But there are a bunch of ways to get them past it, and once they are, there is so much gold there.


Except for the fact that Fenris is very much opposed to incidental physical closeness, and Anders is an abomination who doesn't trust himself to be around other people like that.

I don't know, I understand how it sometimes works in real life, but in fiction (and with characters like Fenris and Anders, one of whom exists simply to oppose the other) doing things like nudging them together in meetcute ways is contrived because it seems incredibly implausible based on their personalities. Like I said, Fenris has a huge mental hang up with being  touched, so how likely is it that he's going to put himself in a situation where he accidentally spoons someone? I'd be surprised if he lets Anders touch him while healing him. And I doubt that Anders trusts Fenris as a person or himself enough to get in a position where they accidentally snuggle or whatever.

And here's the thing- we know from banter in Legacy that they play cards together. Cards is a social thing, one where people are relaxed and themselves and they talk about stuff that's not politics or mages or whatever. They are human, and they are interacting and learning things about each other that makes them more than That Elf That Hates Mages and That Abomination. Yet that doesn't make them any closer. That doesn't change the fact that Anders is glad Fenris gets sold back to Danarius.

I guess this is where I'm broken at shipping: I do not see the potential for anyone in a setting to fall for anyone else. I don't think love and attraction work that way. I don't see why, given everyone else they know, Anders and Fenris would ever seek each other out. I guess the assumption is that they are both bi/pansexual, and that they're attractive to players, and they have a contentious relationship and must therefore secretly want to vent that frustration on each other. But, in the absence of any evidence of any sort of want from either of them, and in the face of who they actually gravitate towards, it's always going to be OOC me. Unless, of course, you scrap pretty much their entire canon and force them into entirely new situations and, at that point, they're not really Fenris and Anders as their creators intended them to be.

Modifié par SurelyForth, 05 août 2011 - 10:02 .


#50725
Sinaxi

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You make me happy. That is all.