57019 réponses à ce sujet

[L.C.]

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...

ademska wrote...

i'm not sure why the dynamic between mhawke and anders is so different from fhawke, but regardless the whole revert-to-awakening-anders explanation still fits. in the mhawke conversation, after anders flirts it up, he may not withdraw and reject hawke's advances, but he still launches into a glowy rant about mage oppression, which is in effect still an acknowledgment that he's not the same person who can flirt so indiscriminately.

I think it might be tied to the way he's related his partners over the years. From what he says in Awakenings, he seems to have been a bit of a womanizer, jumping rather indiscriminately from bed to bed and leaving quite a few broken hearts in his wake. Once he merged with Justice, he must have seen how awful his behavior had been and felt very guilty about it. Flirting with Hawke with his old Awakenings self, he might have spotted yet another pattern of him being romantically involved with a woman who only ended up being heartbroken over it so he panicks and puts the foot down rather quickly. With male lovers, of whom only Karl is mentioned, he might not have that kind of baggage.

That's actually a pretty good point regarding his relationships with women and why he acts very protective and tries to put his foot down with F!Hawke even after he initially slips up a bit.

I actually feel like his relationship with Karl exists no matter what, just in some weird Schrodinger's Boyfriend state with a F!Hawke because he has no _reason_ to mention it. As others have said, I think the only reason he mentions it with a male Hawke is because it's relevant to testing the waters at that time, and with a female, he's got no reason to do that.

When I talk about Hawke and Anders and their relationship, I generally try to be as gender-neutral as possible as I've played it both ways and most, if not all of the same overall important points hold true either way. For me, anyway.

Modifié par Leah.C, 07 août 2011 - 07:13 .

[Sinaxi]

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...
I think it might be tied to the way he's related his partners over the years. From what he says in Awakenings, he seems to have been a bit of a womanizer, jumping rather indiscriminately from bed to bed and leaving quite a few broken hearts in his wake. Once he merged with Justice, he must have seen how awful his behavior had been and felt very guilty about it. Flirting with Hawke with his old Awakenings self, he might have spotted yet another pattern of him being romantically involved with a woman who only ended up being heartbroken over it so he panicks and puts the foot down rather quickly. With male lovers, of whom only Karl is mentioned, he might not have that kind of baggage.

I can see what both of you mean, but like...in a way I felt what he said with Male Hawke came across as way more "lol I want to get laid" than what he said to fem Hawke - at least in that video I watched it did. Then he totally forgot all about it and moved onto ranting about Templars.

I mean he remarks more on fem hawke's personality, and tries to reason with himself as to why he is hitting on her. With male Hawke he is all "oh, well I'll let you consider that now that I know you might be into guys" I guess it is just different with a female Hawke in general.
I hesitate to say it seems more genuine with a fem Hawke, since I don't want it to come across as me being all "amg fem Hawke is better with Anders" but I guess I just prefer those dialogue choices over the male ones. Seems more genuine all around to me, with what he says and then kind of realizing he shouldn't have and goes into protective mode. Even if he doesn't mention Karl. So yeah..it's pretty different for each gender Hawke. Since he is more genuine with male Hawke about like, what happened to him. Which I do hate fem Hawke didn't get to hear. =/

But I'm also a female soo yeah, that could be why I ultimately prefer the female conversation maybe a guy would think what he was saying was dumb hahaha idk.

Modifié par Tidra, 07 août 2011 - 07:48 .

[L.C.]

Well, Anders does say, "Underneath that scruffy exterior you've got a bit of a soft heart yourself." If Male Hawke picks the same option that nets female Hawke the, "Smart, wise, AND beautiful, etc." comment. Which is also a comment on his personality, not just a, "Hey! You. Me. That cot over there. -- How 'bout it?"

The REALLY super-suggestive comment is ONLY made if you press him for details about him and Karl, and then pick the sort of hesitant option after that (when he asks you if it bothers you if he's been with men) instead of saying 'Yes' or 'No'. So in that case it's really just Anders being _abundantly_ clear about his intentions. If Hawke responds definitively 'Yes' or 'No', he doesn't pull the aggressively suggestive comment out. And even when he does, he immediately backs up a bit afterward. That option doesn't exist at all for F!Hawke since he never mentions Karl as a lover at all to her.

There's several different ways the conversation can pan out, that's just one of the possible ones.

I personally like them both, for all their different nuances. The 'soft heart' comment he makes to M!Hawke is one of my favorite in the game in terms of being really sweet.

Modifié par Leah.C, 07 août 2011 - 08:05 .

[Sinaxi]

Well that makes more sense then. That line was like...totally "lolz lets do it" so I was just like o.O

[CulturalGeekGirl]

I'll agree that Anders always loves Hawke. The thing is, Anders loves Hawke even if Hawke is the worst person possible. Seeing Anders love my Crow (who is not the worst person ever but makes a good run at it) as much as he loved Lir or Garrett made me realize that his 'always loves Hawke' thing is actually really unhealthy, and kind of a bad thing.

A good Hawke who loves him back and can deal with his crap turns that all around of course, obviously. But his desperation and need even in the face of complete rejection or abuse make me wonder how much of the connection is Hawke in particular and how much of it is anyone who is willing to be actively involved in his life... and I think it's maybe about fifty-fifty. That's one of the reasons that I find Anders with someone other than Hawke fascinating. I never imagine the initial attraction to be as intense, but I've always been a fan of the romance that happens after the person with the big shiny fiery unrequited love finally realizes that it isn't going to happen, and stops being an idiot (in my head this usually wouldn't happen 'til post-endgame for Anders).

My favorite option for an Anders who gets rejected by Hawke is the "finds his Warden" option, but I also find it interesting if he finds one of the other Awakening crew. I always thought Nate or Sigrun were the best options for that, but I read a short prompt somewhere where he goes off with Merril and they find Velanna. Anders expects her to be horrible to him, of course, and instead she's like "I think merging with Justice was very brave, and striking a blow against the oppressor like that... I never had the guts to do it." It didn't actually end with romance but it made me think (though I'm usually a Nate + Velanna person. Their flirts are just so cute... cuter even than Isabella and Fenris, I think).

[L.C.]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

A good Hawke who loves him back and can deal with his crap turns that all around of course, obviously. But his desperation and need even in the face of complete rejection or abuse make me wonder how much of the connection is Hawke in particular and how much of it is anyone who is willing to be actively involved in his life... and I think it's maybe about fifty-fifty. That's one of the reasons that I find Anders with someone other than Hawke fascinating. I never imagine the initial attraction to be as intense, but I've always been a fan of the romance that happens after the person with the big shiny fiery unrequited love finally realizes that it isn't going to happen, and stops being an idiot (in my head this usually wouldn't happen 'til post-endgame for Anders). 

I agree with the bolded bit very, very much so. I think it's a combination of the person and the circumstances just _clicking_.

Tidra wrote...

Well that makes more sense then. That line was like...totally "lolz lets do it" so I was just like o.O

Oh, Good God, I know. I was like...

"I'm all for a good bandying session, but maybe we could try this another time. You know. Like... when it's not five minutes after you just knifed your _last_ boyfriend?" 8|

Modifié par Leah.C, 07 août 2011 - 08:29 .

[Sinaxi]

Leah.C wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

A good Hawke who loves him back and can deal with his crap turns that all around of course, obviously. But his desperation and need even in the face of complete rejection or abuse make me wonder how much of the connection is Hawke in particular and how much of it is anyone who is willing to be actively involved in his life... and I think it's maybe about fifty-fifty. That's one of the reasons that I find Anders with someone other than Hawke fascinating. I never imagine the initial attraction to be as intense, but I've always been a fan of the romance that happens after the person with the big shiny fiery unrequited love finally realizes that it isn't going to happen, and stops being an idiot (in my head this usually wouldn't happen 'til post-endgame for Anders). 

I agree with the bolded bit very, very much so. I think it's a combination of the person and the circumstances just _clicking_.

It does have a lot to do with the circumstances. That's why I've always said that it makes perfect sense to me why he falls pretty hard for Hawke when they are kind to him about Justice. About Rivalry though, idk so much. I think it's like I said before, it's him desperately clinging to something, anything in hopes of finding support but he never gets it and it just ruins him as a person.

I think on either path it has a lot to do with this idea he has conjured in his head about Hawke, either because they were sweet to him and he sees what a great person they are or because on rivalry he sees them as someone with a lot of power and even though they rejected him he still wishes he could convince them otherwise and maybe thinks that if he does he will accomplish something & they would see him in a different light. He has all these ideas in his head, probably the ways he hopes their relationship could work but he doesn't want to hurt them so he holds back. Then it comes to the point where he can't hold back anymore, and by that time his hopes are either confirmed (friendmance) or he just stays with Hawke because it's like he can see at least 1 tiny part of that idea he had in his head about them and he wants it to be true (rivalmance).

The way Rivalry Hawke treats Anders though, it's kind of hard for me to believe that they actually "love" him. I don't think there is much real love in that relationship at all. With friendship Hawke it's so different, because it just confirms everything he felt and saw in Hawke over those 3 years being Hawke's friend so it is almost like this really scary dream come true for him even though he knows it will most likely end badly or he worries that it will.

[L.C.]

Yeah, I think the saddest thing about the rivalry romance is Anders clinging to the vestiges of hope that he'll somehow manage to bring Hawke over to his side, eventually.

And it just doesn't happen.

Modifié par Leah.C, 07 août 2011 - 08:39 .

[MG800]

Leah.C wrote...

It's definitely possible that there are genuine feelings there, or that he might even genuinely care for / love Hawke on a rivalry path (depending on how it's played), but I do think it's _really_ complicated. I mean, it's clearly painful and awful for Anders on a rivalry path, but he sticks with it and keeps trying to turn Hawke to his side. I always feel like it's a varying mix of personal feelings and political ones -- on a sliding scale depending on Hawke's actions and attitude.

I am slow at typing today -- I sliced my hand open earlier this morning and I have to hunt-and-peck at the keys, and it's miserable. So, apologies if I'm a few replies behind

^This. Depends of the Hawke you created. I like the idea of "rival turning supportive" - thing is, to make it convincing (and interesting, but that's friendmance too). No "mages suck" for entire game, including siding with Meredith, and then going "You're acting crazy, lol. Let's do some suspicious things in the Chantry". 

Modifié par MG800, 07 août 2011 - 08:50 .

[L.C.]

MG800 wrote...
^This. Depends of the Hawke you created. I like the idea of "rival turning supportive" - thing is, to make it convincing (and interesting, but that's friendmance too). No "mages suck" for entire game, including siding with Meredith, and then going "You're acting crazy, lol. Let's do some suspicious things in the Chantry". 

I don't know why, but the way that you phrased that is making me laugh myself silly right now.

Modifié par Leah.C, 08 août 2011 - 05:16 .

[CulturalGeekGirl]

I can't do the typical rivalmance (then again, none of my friendmances follow what I consider to be the typical "friendmance" path from what I've seen from fics and stuff. I'm a rebel.)

Crow thinks mages are dangerous, but she's not afraid of Anders... and not for the normal Rivalmance "you have to control this" reason, but because she knows he's HER monster. He's not going to hurt her, and she can turn him on her enemies and he'll rip them apart. That's attractive. That's useful. She sees Fenris in basically the same way: who cares if he's a crazy murderer? He's a crazy murderer who obeys her, and that's good enough.

So yeah, she'll send mages back to the circle... if they look like they're not going to be useful to her. And she wants to become Viscount, so she sucks up to authority for most of the game. When Anders blows up the Chantry she's not actually upset because of the loss of life or anything, more because he's messed up all her get-rich-slow schemes in Kirkwall. This is how I see the courtyard scene going down with her:

"Well that was... interesting. So I guess we can just execute Anders and put all this nasty business behind us."
"The grand cleric has been slain by magic, the chantry destroyed! Blah blah blah, rite of annulment!"
"Uh, I'm not sure if you've been paying attention. This guy right here, he did your explosion. He gathered ingredients and used some Tevinter spell and he blew up your chantry. And now he's sitting right there. I can totally stab him if that'll make everything better. Look, I've got this knife!"
"After what just occurred you cannot deny what must be done! We must annul the circle!"
"You know what, Lady? Screw you. I've tried to make this easy for you, I've tried to be patient, I've kissed your butt for seven Maker-cursed years, and now that we can settle this all neat-like with a simple execution, you go all crazy on me? Yeah, no. Screw your templar order and screw Kirkwall. I'm siding with the mages, and then I'm going to burn your blighted city to the ground."

[after combat]

"Ugh, I hate this place. Why did I ever want to be Viscount anyway? Hey, you, blondie, let's go."
"What? I didn't think..."
"And that's your problem. You don't think, like ever. It's a good thing you're hot, otherwise I wouldn't keep you around. For sex. With me."
"Weren't... you going to kill me?"
"I was gonna kill you when I thought it'd benefit me. Keep up."

[after the final battle, making their way away from the burning city]

"I'm sorry I made such a mess of everything."
"Don't sweat it."
"I've cost you everything. We'll be hunted, hated... no one in Kirkwall will show us mercy,"
Hawke reaches a seemingly random part of the field, and leans down. She pulls up a cleverly-woven mat of grass to reveal a cache beneath it.
"Meh. You'd be surprised how much mercy a sapphire the size of a quail's egg can buy." She pulls up a medium-sized velvet bag, dumps a few gems and gold pieces into her hand, and then returns them to the sack. She tosses a pack to Anders, and takes one for herself. "I've also got accounts set up in Antiva, Rivain, and Orlais. You've cost me my Kirkwall holdings, but I invested heavily in a few shipping companies that would prosper if Kirkwall happened to have an... unfortunate accident."
"I... I don't understand. Did you know what I was going to do? With the chantry?"
"Not really. But after Lothering, I swore that any time I came to a new town, I'd make sure I would taken care of it it happened to burn to the ground. You coming?"
"...yes."

So in that playthrough, Anders ends up following around a woman who he knows for sure was prepared to kill him if it would make her Viscount, and refused to do so mostly out of spite. I feel so bad about it, but it also puts the whole Anders always loved Hawke thing into creepy, terrible perspective.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 07 août 2011 - 09:31 .

[esper]

What is a typical rivalmance?
The one I suceeded in was the one with my primal/elemental Hawke.
She wasn't against mage freedom or anything, but the thing was Hawke didn't want to put her life on the line. She grew up with feeling like the whole world was against her because of the mage thing so her personal opionen by the time she reached Kirkwall, was pretty much: Screw the world as long as I am free - if safe and free means being nice to templars so be it.

Her first opinion of Anders is... This man is going to get me caught, I need to keep distance, and she is pretty much convinced that he hates her untill he kisses her in act 2 and since she is on a rebound from Fenris and wants to hurt said elf as much as possible so she totally goes along with Anders and lets him move in.

At the end of the game her real ending is also siding with the mages, because... well Meridith is a lunactic and Hawke is convinced that Meridith has just been waiting for a chance to also kill Hawke, so she feels that her only chance of survival is siding with the other mages.

[ForgeDark]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

I can't do the typical rivalmance (then again, none of my friendmances follow what I consider to be the typical "friendmance" path from what I've seen from fics and stuff. I'm a rebel.)

Crow thinks mages are dangerous, but she's not afraid of Anders... and not for the normal Rivalmance "you have to control this" reason, but because she knows he's HER monster. He's not going to hurt her, and she can turn him on her enemies and he'll rip them apart. That's attractive. That's useful. She sees Fenris in basically the same way: who cares if he's a crazy murderer? He's a crazy murderer who obeys her, and that's good enough.

So yeah, she'll send mages back to the circle... if they look like they're not going to be useful to her. And she wants to become Viscount, so she sucks up to authority for most of the game. When Anders blows up the Chantry she's not actually upset because of the loss of life or anything, more because he's messed up all her get-rich-slow schemes in Kirkwall. This is how I see the courtyard scene going down with her:

"Well that was... interesting. So I guess we can just execute Anders and put all this nasty business behind us."
"The grand cleric has been slain by magic, the chantry destroyed! Blah blah blah, rite of annulment!"
"Uh, I'm not sure if you've been paying attention. This guy right here, he did your explosion. He gathered ingredients and used some Tevinter spell and he blew up your chantry. And now he's sitting right there. I can totally stab him if that'll make everything better. Look, I've got this knife!"
"After what just occurred you cannot deny what must be done! We must annul the circle!"
"You know what, Lady? Screw you. I've tried to make this easy for you, I've tried to be patient, I've kissed your butt for seven Maker-cursed years, and now that we can settle this all neat-like with a simple execution, you go all crazy on me? Yeah, no. Screw your templar order and screw Kirkwall. I'm siding with the mages, and then I'm going to burn your blighted city to the ground."

[after combat]

"Ugh, I hate this place. Why did I ever want to be Viscount anyway? Hey, you, blondie, let's go."
"What? I didn't think..."
"And that's your problem. You don't think, like ever. It's a good thing you're hot, otherwise I wouldn't keep you around. For sex. With me."
"Weren't... you going to kill me?"
"I was gonna kill you when I thought it'd benefit me. Keep up."

[after the final battle, making their way away from the burning city]

"I'm sorry I made such a mess of everything."
"Don't sweat it."
"I've cost you everything. We'll be hunted, hated... no one in Kirkwall will show us mercy,"
Hawke reaches a seemingly random part of the field, and leans down. She pulls up a cleverly-woven mat of grass to reveal a cache beneath it.
"Meh. You'd be surprised how much mercy a sapphire the size of a quail's egg can buy." She pulls up a medium-sized velvet bag, dumps a few gems and gold pieces into her hand, and then returns them to the sack. She tosses a pack to Anders, and takes one for herself. "I've also got accounts set up in Antiva, Rivain, and Orlais. You've cost me my Kirkwall holdings, but I invested heavily in a few shipping companies that would prosper if Kirkwall happened to have an... unfortunate accident."
"I... I don't understand. Did you know what I was going to do? With the chantry?"
"Not really. But after Lothering, I swore that any time I came to a new town, I'd make sure I would taken care of it it happened to burn to the ground. You coming?"
"...yes."

So in that playthrough, Anders ends up following around a woman who he knows for sure was prepared to kill him if it would make her Viscount, and refused to do so mostly out of spite. I feel so bad about it, but it also puts the whole Anders always loved Hawke thing into creepy, terrible perspective.

Out of interest - why did you choose to romance Anders on that playthrough? I have never rivalmanced any of the companions, but I can see how the  RP works with Anders for the above other than why it was him Crow thought was hot.

I guess the reason I never rivalmance is my chars always have a reason to be with a different companion rather than the one they hate. I think it's because I have some strong views and I couldn't imagine being with someone that shared at least some of my values! Especially because I'm not one to shy away from debate, if I was a DA2 character I would not be like Isabella or Varric... That's not to say I couldn't be with someone who didn't have a strong opinion either way on things that are important to me, but someone that is openly against what I stand for I couldn't cope with - not to share a bed with anyway   So my pro-mage Hawkes could never be with Fenris.

[Addai]

eyeofhorus87 wrote...

I guess the reason I never rivalmance is my chars always have a reason to be with a different companion rather than the one they hate. I think it's because I have some strong views and I couldn't imagine being with someone that shared at least some of my values! Especially because I'm not one to shy away from debate, if I was a DA2 character I would not be like Isabella or Varric... That's not to say I couldn't be with someone who didn't have a strong opinion either way on things that are important to me, but someone that is openly against what I stand for I couldn't cope with - not to share a bed with anyway   So my pro-mage Hawkes could never be with Fenris.

I'm not really qualified to comment, because none of the romances really captured me.

I did enjoy the rivalry romance with Fenris on my mage character the most, however.  I did a friendship romance with him on my templar-supporting rogue character, and I found it boring.  I like the tensions, and the idea that he can come to see one mage as a person- albeit a strong person and thus one he admires and distinguishes from others- and that this is likely to challenge him to be more broad-minded overall.  The idea that someone from a group he thought he hated is the one person he can't live without is awfully appealing.  Sort of a Romeo and Juliet thing.

I can also distinguish it from Anders because Fenris is not on a lifelong anti-mage revolutionary crusade.  He just wants a normal life, though magic has often interfered so he has an attitude about it.  But it's not a Cause for him.

My apathetic 2c.

Modifié par Addai67, 07 août 2011 - 10:58 .

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Crow is my amoral character. I created her because I'm really, really bad at being "evil" in games, but a long time ago I created this amoral sneak-thief in the Shadowrun universe who wasn't strictly evil, she just didn't care about anything but her personal pleasure and well-being. Whenever I play someone who isn't Crow, I just always end up siding with the mages and friend-ing Anders, even if I don't romance him. (It's the same thing with pretty much every RPG: every character but Crow tends toward the 'good' side, just via different justifications and routes. Boring!)

Crow ends up with Anders pretty much by default. She sleeps with Isabella, but she's not going to be the one who brings up "love," so that goes nowhere. She sleeps with Fenris but then he leaves because of his stupid feelings, so that's a bust. Then it's down to Merril, who she totally does not want, and Anders, who is troubled and sexy and apparently has some kind of an electricity trick up his sleeve. When he wants to move in, she figures hey, sex on demand and she doesn't have to stumble over the drunks in darktown. And he's amusing enough, good in bed, attractive, there's no reason for her to not stay with him.

She doesn't hate Anders... she's just practically a sociopath, and she doesn't really feel feelings for anyone. I mean she feels lust and she likes being praised and amused, but those aren't really normal emotions. Anders is a suitable enough target for her lust, and is amusing, and compliments her, he'll serve. Yet at the end, he's nothing more than another pawn in her game, to be sacrificed if it'll give her additional leverage. Maybe if she kills him, she can get Fen back. If not, there'll be some other hot guy or girl who wants to bang the Viscount.

If I were a DA2 character, I'd be pro mage. But Crow is the character I play to be absolutely nothing like myself. She is motivated solely by rational self interest, hedonism, and greed. So the question of "why be with someone you hate" never comes up, because she doesn't really love or hate anyone, unless they get in her way.

The fact that Anders loves her with exactly the same amount of passion and devotion as he loves Lir, his knight-in-shining armor who supports him in everything he does is... troubling... and fascinating.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 07 août 2011 - 10:55 .

[Giggles_Manically]

Finally got around to starting my Anders friendmance Hawke up again.

Last one ended up with Isabela.
Will update as I go along.

[mellifera]

I found this beautiful Anders picture I hope you all like it

[Dhiro]

yukidama wrote...

I found this beautiful Anders picture I hope you all like it
-snip-

I'm ready for some Anders luvin'.

[YamiSnuffles]

yukidama wrote...

I found this beautiful Anders picture I hope you all like it
-snip-

Whyyyyyyyyyyy?!

Why do people do that to him? He looks so weird and generic and.... bleargh. Also, why do people always give Anders blue eyes? There is absolutely nothing wrong with his eyes. He has beautiful eyes.

[Sinaxi]

I hate you all. Poor Anders..it looks like they were trying to make him look like a complete girl. And that eye color looks pretty terrible in general.

Also, that is suchhh a bad scene to put into a context like that... >.< ****ing Voldemort. Poor Snape.

Modifié par Tidra, 08 août 2011 - 01:37 .

[SurelyForth]

We need real Anders!

[Jennifer Brandes Hepler]

I always felt that thing about rivalry relationships in DA (for everyone, but particularly Anders) is that they're all talk, no action, and that's why they're still a form of relationship instead of the termination of that relationship. Gaining rivalry points with Fenris is a very different thing than actually turning him over to Danarius. When you are earning rivalry points, it means you are still loyal to the character, and they are still loyal to you, despite your disagreements.

When I wrote rival Hawke, I was imagining her gnashing her teeth in frustration that Anders can't see the mess he's made of his life, and he's just as frustrated that she can't see that he's in the right about it. She tries to shock him out of his acceptance of what he's become to force him to see that Justice has corrupted him (and ultimately succeeds when they split sufficiently for Justice to just take over and do the bombing, albeit not in a way that ends up benefiting anyone). Anders, for his part, recognizes that for all that Hawke says, she's saying it out of concern for him, since if she really just saw him as unsaveable, she would turn him over to the templars. It's certainly not a healthy relationship, but it's definitely a dynamic that exists in real life (granted, in real life, they've usually had time to build a foundation of that relationship *before* the crazy starts, but I thought it was at least a dynamic some people would relate to).

P.S. I love that 2000+ pages later, you guys are still actually talking about the character. Thanks for all the love.

[YamiSnuffles]

SurelyForth wrote...

We need real Anders!

I love that picture. He looks so badass with the coat and the pose and the super intense gaze. Thus, I refuse to snip it.

[SurelyForth]

Jennifer Brandes Hepler wrote...

P.S. I love that 2000+ pages later, you guys are still actually talking about the character. Thanks for all the love.

Thank you for giving us a character that's worth talking about for 2000+ pages. 

[Sinaxi]

Jennifer Brandes Hepler wrote...

I always felt that thing about rivalry relationships in DA (for everyone, but particularly Anders) is that they're all talk, no action, and that's why they're still a form of relationship instead of the termination of that relationship. Gaining rivalry points with Fenris is a very different thing than actually turning him over to Danarius. When you are earning rivalry points, it means you are still loyal to the character, and they are still loyal to you, despite your disagreements.

When I wrote rival Hawke, I was imagining her gnashing her teeth in frustration that Anders can't see the mess he's made of his life, and he's just as frustrated that she can't see that he's in the right about it. She tries to shock him out of his acceptance of what he's become to force him to see that Justice has corrupted him (and ultimately succeeds when they split sufficiently for Justice to just take over and do the bombing, albeit not in a way that ends up benefiting anyone). Anders, for his part, recognizes that for all that Hawke says, she's saying it out of concern for him, since if she really just saw him as unsaveable, she would turn him over to the templars. It's certainly not a healthy relationship, but it's definitely a dynamic that exists in real life (granted, in real life, they've usually had time to build a foundation of that relationship *before* the crazy starts, but I thought it was at least a dynamic some people would relate to).

P.S. I love that 2000+ pages later, you guys are still actually talking about the character. Thanks for all the love.

I ended up picking up the game like, last month...and it was SIMPLY because of Anders that I had to join the forums. I was really glad to see that this thread is super active, and I was able to discuss a lot of things with other great users.

But yes, there is much love. I was honestly going to post this in a second, so it's so odd you just posted...I was going to be like "You know, I wonder if Hepler thinks we are all just nutjobs for totally loving this character through and through...or if she is really happy about it since she wrote him." Haha.