57019 réponses à ce sujet

[LT123]

Jennifer Brandes Hepler wrote...

I always felt that thing about rivalry relationships in DA (for everyone, but particularly Anders) is that they're all talk, no action, and that's why they're still a form of relationship instead of the termination of that relationship. Gaining rivalry points with Fenris is a very different thing than actually turning him over to Danarius. When you are earning rivalry points, it means you are still loyal to the character, and they are still loyal to you, despite your disagreements.

When I wrote rival Hawke, I was imagining her gnashing her teeth in frustration that Anders can't see the mess he's made of his life, and he's just as frustrated that she can't see that he's in the right about it. She tries to shock him out of his acceptance of what he's become to force him to see that Justice has corrupted him (and ultimately succeeds when they split sufficiently for Justice to just take over and do the bombing, albeit not in a way that ends up benefiting anyone). Anders, for his part, recognizes that for all that Hawke says, she's saying it out of concern for him, since if she really just saw him as unsaveable, she would turn him over to the templars. It's certainly not a healthy relationship, but it's definitely a dynamic that exists in real life (granted, in real life, they've usually had time to build a foundation of that relationship *before* the crazy starts, but I thought it was at least a dynamic some people would relate to).

P.S. I love that 2000+ pages later, you guys are still actually talking about the character. Thanks for all the love.

Thanks for posting! He's a great character.

I think the post-Justice quest argument between Anders and a rival Hawke who is romancing him really gets this dynamic across, especially if you pick the diplomatic and sarcastic options (haven't picked the aggressive ones except for the one when Justice comes out).

Edit: Picture and corrected sentence.

Modifié par LT123, 08 août 2011 - 01:58 .

[YamiSnuffles]

SurelyForth wrote...

Jennifer Brandes Hepler wrote...

P.S. I love that 2000+ pages later, you guys are still actually talking about the character. Thanks for all the love.

Thank you for giving us a character that's worth talking about for 2000+ pages. 

I'll second these thanks. Every time I think we've talked about everything, someone brings up something new or someone new discusses something in a new light. Anders has born tons of fantastic discussion, love, and good share of jokes.

[Sinaxi]

Also, since we were in need of real Anders pictures...hehe..

[mellifera]

fine, here's a real anders.

[SurelyForth]

Noooooo! Not sickly Feynriel Anders!

*why does yuki hate us?*

[Heidenreich]

...

*Cheers for a visit from Jennifer Brandes Hepler*
Anders loves you forever, Jennifer!





and, as for the horrible, horrible modded anders pictures...



"That will kill me, surely as the Templars."





Even Awakening Anders disaproves of mods.


"Uh.... no."

Modifié par Heidenreich, 08 août 2011 - 02:19 .

[highcastle]

Jennifer Brandes Hepler wrote...

I always felt that thing about rivalry relationships in DA (for everyone, but particularly Anders) is that they're all talk, no action, and that's why they're still a form of relationship instead of the termination of that relationship. Gaining rivalry points with Fenris is a very different thing than actually turning him over to Danarius. When you are earning rivalry points, it means you are still loyal to the character, and they are still loyal to you, despite your disagreements.

When I wrote rival Hawke, I was imagining her gnashing her teeth in frustration that Anders can't see the mess he's made of his life, and he's just as frustrated that she can't see that he's in the right about it. She tries to shock him out of his acceptance of what he's become to force him to see that Justice has corrupted him (and ultimately succeeds when they split sufficiently for Justice to just take over and do the bombing, albeit not in a way that ends up benefiting anyone). Anders, for his part, recognizes that for all that Hawke says, she's saying it out of concern for him, since if she really just saw him as unsaveable, she would turn him over to the templars. It's certainly not a healthy relationship, but it's definitely a dynamic that exists in real life (granted, in real life, they've usually had time to build a foundation of that relationship *before* the crazy starts, but I thought it was at least a dynamic some people would relate to).

P.S. I love that 2000+ pages later, you guys are still actually talking about the character. Thanks for all the love.

I definitely find the rivalry dynamic compelling...I just don't think I could actually pursue it in any of my games, mostly because I also think Anders is (mostly) in the right about things. But what I especially like is that neither the rivalry nor the friendship relationships are particularly healthy. The love of a good woman or man doesn't "cure" or "fix" Anders. He is severely broken no matter how you cut it. I think in some respects, the friendship path is about living with the flaws and learning to appreciate them too, while the rivalry one is about trying to change him. ANd personally, I prefer the acceptance path (again, it helps that I agree with his cause).

And it should always be a testimony to the quality of writing that we can all sit here and debate this for 2000 pages. And it's a mark of the fans that everything's stayed largely civil despite the disagreements in this character. That's why I like this thread.

And more true Anders to counter that gaunt abomination above me.

[nitefyre410]

Tidra wrote...

Also, since we were in need of real Anders pictures...hehe..

Oh once Anders finds that place being  Rage and Serenity  he is going to a dangerous man indead.  Even much more so than he is now... which  is I like him, I do want to see  where his character goes from here.

[Sinaxi]

o.O could you repeat that.....

[L.C.]

Jennifer Brandes Hepler wrote...

When I wrote rival Hawke, I was imagining her gnashing her teeth in frustration that Anders can't see the mess he's made of his life, and he's just as frustrated that she can't see that he's in the right about it. She tries to shock him out of his acceptance of what he's become to force him to see that Justice has corrupted him (and ultimately succeeds when they split sufficiently for Justice to just take over and do the bombing, albeit not in a way that ends up benefiting anyone). Anders, for his part, recognizes that for all that Hawke says, she's saying it out of concern for him, since if she really just saw him as unsaveable, she would turn him over to the templars. It's certainly not a healthy relationship, but it's definitely a dynamic that exists in real life (granted, in real life, they've usually had time to build a foundation of that relationship *before* the crazy starts, but I thought it was at least a dynamic some people would relate to).

Well, you did a superb job with that -- especially the 'people relating to it' bit.

Sometimes being right isn't all that matters. You can be right as rain, but if it destroys you in the process... what good does that do anybody? Some people can accept that sometimes you have to pick your battles. And then, of course, there are some people who are willing to stick to what they think is right -- at the cost of all else.

Healthy? No. Interesting? Very. Painful? Oh, yes.

For what it's worth, my boyfriend was watching me play the rivalry path with Anders and a female warrior Hawke (with the blunt/direct personality type), and he commented to me that it seemed very realistic in the way that Anders acted and responded, in terms of that personality and relationship type. The fact that he felt compelled to say that out of the blue, as a bystander, just speaks to the quality of the writing in general, I think.

Modifié par Leah.C, 08 août 2011 - 05:21 .

[FieryDove]

yukidama wrote...

fine, here's a real anders.

I prefer the original Anders but I do use mods for his coat and one that gave him his DAA hair back.

[Arquen]

Omg the mods again, lmao. I can't imagine Anders as anything but his original model now. I blame you all for my purist attitude now, lol.

I have some good screenies of Anders in legacy. Boooo not being at home. Still ... I think I will always mourn DAA Anders a bit, but I appreciate and understand his character development. Still, I can grieve at the turn he took. Of course without it he wouldn't be the tragic mess everyone loves, right?

[FieryDove]

Arquen wrote...

Still ... I think I will always mourn DAA Anders a bit, but I appreciate and understand his character development.

I will never understand it. But that's my problem and I am stubbon like that.

[berelinde]

Arquen wrote...

Omg the mods again, lmao. I can't imagine Anders as anything but his original model now. I blame you all for my purist attitude now, lol.

I blame you all for my purist attitude about all the companions. I cannot abide bone-structure changes to any of them. I even went back to a pant-less Isabela, and that's saying something! Originally, I thought it was ridiculous that she should enter combat wearing only a beach cover-up, but I've revised my stance. It's still ridiculous, but it's 100% Isabela, so the pants go bye-bye and Isabela fights in a thong. What the hells. If anybody can pull it off, she can... even if she winds up lying face-down on the Hanged Man floor with Varric pretending not to know her. I have to qualify that a little since I use a mod that gives Anders blonde stubble, but that's just my own brand of OCD and I don't expect anybody else to adhere to it.

I'm kind of indifferent to costume mods. I don't use them myself, but I do respect Ishmaeltheforsaken's work in providing variety in an otherwise static situation. Kudos to her for her taste and skill. The characters still look like themselves even if their clothing is different.

Still, I can grieve at the turn he took. Of course without it he wouldn't be the tragic mess everyone loves, right?

It's a funny thing. I expected to grieve the departure from DA:A Anders. I psyched myself up for it, telling myself that it wouldn't be that bad, that I'd still find plenty to love, but truth far exceeded my expectations. I rejoiced in the changes. They made sense to me. Of course Anders would want to help Justice. He's like that, you know, taking on lost causes while pretending to be a selfish jerk. And maybe he was, but not as much as he let on. The important thing is that his behavior was always consistent. I could imagine him doing what he did. And the tortured thing he's got rocking now? I love it. That probably makes me a despicable person, but it's still true.

Edit: And I can relate to the rivalry dynamic. I have typed this reply a dozen times, quoting Ms. Hepler, even, but in the end, I decided that nobody needs to know. Suffice it to say that the scenario is believable. Just not attractive. I can't do it on any of my sane Hawkes.

Modifié par berelinde, 08 août 2011 - 06:18 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

yukidama wrote...

fine, here's a real anders.

Yuki, do you want me to reveal what kind of hair you would probably hate on Anders?

[Sinaxi]

Woah woah woah woah WOAH. You gave Isabela PANTS?!?! What is this utter BLASPHEMY?!?! Haha. As far as costume mods I only use them for myself, since DA:O gear was meh. But I love the Mage Champion armor in game just not the color. The mod I got did change the skirt though, has more holes and is more torn and has the other sleeve but it's like torn instead of just having no sleeve oh and color wise it's black with some red...soo much more bamf looking...I just got off my comp tho so I can't show a picture. I know people hated that DA2 peeps had their own clothes you couldn't change but I kinda liked it...it's like the way Morrigan had her main iconic gear. It makes them more into characters for
me...damn the stats!

[Ryzaki]

I give her pants because I have no desire to see panty shots. Plus the pants are leather.

[KnightofPhoenix]

I downloaded the SA mod for Morrigan (the only mod I tolerate), because I didn't want to see side boobs all over the place either. Her outfit was going to make me dislike her at first glance, when I saw the trailer.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 08 août 2011 - 06:43 .

[ReiSilver]

Ryzaki wrote...

I give her pants because I have no desire to see panty shots. Plus the pants are leather.

I love those pants for Isabela, black leather with the binding up the side, I use her a whole lot more now I have that mod. The pantslessness was just too immersion breaking for me... I also got one that gives LadyHawke a normal running animation
I tried out a mod to make Anders more like he was in awakening but quickly got rid of it once the skin cracks didn't show up right. I can't touch the party members faces, nope nope nope, only faces I changed were Alistair and Zevran since the vanila DA2 models just looked off to me and giving Keeper Merathari her old valaslin.
I still miss Anders' earing

[Ryzaki]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I downloaded the SA mod for Morrigan (the only mod I tolerate), because I didn't want to see side boobs all over the place either. Her outfit was going to make me dislike her at first glance, when I saw the trailer.

Ah I love that mod. It actually makes the wild's look...well cold. Don't see the point in wasting mana and risking scratches just to walk around in a sexy shirt that pretty much no one save her mother is gonna see. 

ReiSilver wrote...
I love those pants for Isabela, black leather with the binding up the side, I use her a whole lot more now I have that mod. The pantslessness was just too immersion breaking for me... I also got one that gives LadyHawke a normal running animation
I tried out a mod to make Anders more like he was in awakening but quickly got rid of it once the skin cracks didn't show up right. I can't touch the party members faces, nope nope nope, only faces I changed were Alistair and Zevran since the vanila DA2 models just looked off to me and giving Keeper Merathari her old valaslin.
I still miss Anders' earing

I use the brown ones. They look great 

Yeah...I can't touch anyone's face save side characters (like Orana...by Ra her face...ugh) and Alistair & Zevran as well. 

I miss his earring too. I just assume he sold it off for travel fare or something. 

[TanyaT]

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...

YamiSnuffles wrote...

SurelyForth wrote...

Jennifer Brandes Hepler wrote...

P.S. I love that 2000+ pages later, you guys are still actually talking about the character. Thanks for all the love.

Thank you for giving us a character that's worth talking about for 2000+ pages. 

I'll second these thanks. Every time I think we've talked about everything, someone brings up something new or someone new discusses something in a new light. Anders has born tons of fantastic discussion, love, and good share of jokes.

I'm thirding the thanks. Never before have I encountered a character so interesting to talk about.

agree, a wonderful character, lovable with deep political passion and very tortured, just what I've always fallen for - I can't believe he wasn't written just for me

(Spouse and I play as one, we discuss tactics etc and I press the left hand,F keys etc while he does the cursor keys and mouse)

last night was gut wrenching
last thing before going to bed we'd got to Act 2, I pushed to meet Anders because I wanted to get through the romance initiation chat, but this play through we're romancing Fenris

I mustered all my resistance and said to spouse "we mustn't lead him on, click on the broken heart comment", he raised his eyebrows (knows of my obsession and calls him lover boy) and clicked ...I went to bed traumatised

Modifié par TanyaT, 08 août 2011 - 08:24 .

[L.C.]

TanyaT wrote...

last night was gut wrenching
last thing before going to bed we'd got to Act 2, I pushed to meet Anders because I wanted to get through the romance initiation chat, but this play through we're romancing Fenris

I mustered all my resistance and said to spouse "we mustn't lead him on, click on the broken heart comment", he raised his eyebrows (knows of my obsession and calls him lover boy) and clicked ...I went to bed traumatised

Oh, what an awful way to go to bed.

Sometimes they make it so damn _hard_ to just... click that little icon.

I have a habit of saving my game in a new slot if I know I'm going to make a decision I'll hate later, but need to make anyway. Then I can always go back to the other one if I feel like it and say, "See, it's all still okay!"

It's a goofy coping mechanism, but it works.

Modifié par Leah.C, 08 août 2011 - 08:36 .

[Lady Dino]

Seriously guys Legacy is killing me.

The more I think about it the more it seems that merging with Justice is, eventually, going to cause our dearly beloved to leave for his Calling pre-maturely.

If Cory is mimicking the old god's call to compell Anders into doing things for him and the siblings aren't at all/nearly as effected by it then that may well mean that he's also more vulnerable to the actual Calling. Which likely means he's got about 5 to 10 years left before he becomes a moon-brained justicespawn creep thing.

Is it wrong that I'm still hoping he goes out with a bang?

ps @Jen H. the great thing about Anders on rivalry is that the "push & pull" element of it is done really well. I can totally see them ****ing at eachother over a game of cards.

H: All I'm saying is, if you started eating better and brushed your hair more often people might start treating you as if you weren't some crazy hobo living in the sewers. Also, have you got any jacks?

A: People respect me because I help those who need it the most. If I don't have time to clean underneath my fingernails and wash my hair it's because I spend more time worrying about the suffering of others than I do on something as petty as my appearance! And go fish.

H: Damn it! Honestly though, I meant real people, like politicians or nobles. A Hobo leading an army of hobos is just going to be put down as a lower class rebellion and nothing will come of it.

*In which Anders glares pointedly at Hawke.

H: It's your turn.

*In which Anders continues to glare

H: Once again, I am not helping you do this, it will get you killed so would you please just take your turn already?

A: Maker! What's the point of playing this game if we're the only ones here?

H: No, Varric's still- Oh, hey where'd Varric go?

A: He went to use the little dwarfs room an hour ago. Though he's probably managed to talk his way into convincing the entire tavern that you punched that dragon to death via nude brawling.

H: Hmm, well... speaking of nude brawling and absent dwarves.

*In which Anders inhales deeply, closes his eyes, and tries not to think dirty thoughts. It doesn't work.

[L.C.]

Lady Dino wrote...

H: All I'm saying is, if you started eating better and brushed your hair more often people might start treating you as if you weren't some crazy hobo living in the sewers. Also, have you got any jacks?

[snip]

H: No, Varric's still- Oh, hey where'd Varric go?

A: He went to
use the little dwarfs room an hour ago. Though he's probably managed to
talk his way into convincing the entire tavern that you punched that
dragon to death via nude brawling.

Hey, there are bonuses to smelling like something that just crawled out of a sewer! 

Namely, that the templars will gag if they get too close, giving you a chance to run.

Then again, they can just follow the trail afterward, can't they? :|

Rats.

At least... people won't crowd you on the street?

Personally, I think a kitten stampede is a much more effective method of dragonslaying.

Modifié par Leah.C, 08 août 2011 - 11:26 .