57019 réponses à ce sujet

[Dark_Rogue]

Hey Anders fans, I have a quick question (who better to ask than you lot, right?) Forgive me if this has already been explained though:

So, when Anders is possessed by Justice, he explains the feeling as being helpless and standing on the sidelines whilst someone else is in control of his body.  But what I was wondering was: does he actually remember his actions when Justice goes away and does he actually see what he's doing whilst possessed?  I mean, he explains to Merrill about feeling similar to a puppet, only watching on as he kills someone, he remembers almost killing/killing Ella during his compaion quest and even in his short story, he explains that he saw himself kiilling.  But, if I remember correctly, doesn't he mention about "blacking out" and not remembering anything in a dialogue with Hawke?

It was a just a general wondering on my part, it's kind of blocking my writing from going any further in my fic too.  So it would be nice to see what you guys and girls think, thanks. 

[L.C.]

Sorry, double post! Edited to remove redundancy.

Modifié par Leah.C, 09 août 2011 - 05:00 .

[L.C.]

My understanding is that as things progress timeline-wise toward the end of the game, he remembers less of his episodes (hence the memory blackouts). But I don't have any source material to quote to support that on hand.

He never mentioned them on a friendship/friendmance path, which would also make sense. Since on the rivalry path, he really can't hold it together very much at all. Either he's not really having them or he's not mentioning them with a friendship/friendmance. I think either could be a valid assumption at that point.

It's never really spelled out in detail, so I think it's fair to make some logical conclusions based on what little is provided and use mild artistic license for the rest, if you're looking to write about it.

Modifié par Leah.C, 09 août 2011 - 05:09 .

[Arquen]

The blackouts dialogue occurs with rivalry Anders I believe. As a friendship Anders seems to merge more fully with Justice the blackouts don't seem to happen.

When Merrill is rival he mentions that abomination talk to her as well. Yet, I'm not sure if it is exactly true at all points when he goes Justice mode.

[L.C.]

Arquen wrote...

The blackouts dialogue occurs with rivalry Anders I believe. As a friendship Anders seems to merge more fully with Justice the blackouts don't seem to happen.

In the 'short story' introduction that was written for Anders officially, he seems to have a memory lapse of some kind after the whole Warden-Templar-slaughtering-episode. He seems confused and doesn't really remember what happened.

Speaking of Justice...



He _might_ be popping out of the screen, and that _might_ be kind of awesome and terrifying all at once.

Modifié par Leah.C, 09 août 2011 - 05:12 .

[Arquen]

I was talking more about the rivalry dialogue he has with Hawke were he specifically mentions his blackouts becoming more and more frequent.

Others can no doubt answer more fully, but I'm not sure if he completely blacks out and doesn't remember things/events/killing every time he flips to Justice mode. He doesn't mention suffering from blackouts in friendship side but it is a big part of his act 3 dialogue on the rivalry side.

Also, in his short story I know he doesn't really remember killing the Templars, but that was his first "Justice Mode" so I think as he merges more fully with Justice he can retain more memory from these events. He remembers trying to or killing Ella. He remembers going ballistic on the Templars for Karl.

It is hard to really gauge how much of himself is left when he flips to Justice mode, but I'm under the impression that the more he attempts to fight off and split himself from Justice (like in rivalry mode) the worse his blackouts afflict him. If he accepts the merger (as in friendship mode) he doesn't seem to suffer from these so called blackouts, and doesn't mention them in his dialogue in act 3.

[Dark_Rogue]

 Thanks for the answers, I guess I'm low on research because I've never Rivalmanced Anders before <_<
That picture is scary, but oh-so-awesome!  What scene is that from? I'm not sure I've seen it before...But I love the sarcastic!Hawke dialogue part "Here we go again" hehe.

[Arquen]

Legacy screenshot... I have the same one and the same scene with my PC version. It is OH SO EPIC.

I am fond of Justice glowy Anders. Him in his Vengeance/Justice form being all powerful and kick arse. I love it.

[L.C.]

Arquen wrote...

I was talking more about the rivalry dialogue he has with Hawke were he specifically mentions his blackouts becoming more and more frequent.

Others can no doubt answer more fully, but I'm not sure if he completely blacks out and doesn't remember things/events/killing every time he flips to Justice mode. He doesn't mention suffering from blackouts in friendship side but it is a big part of his act 3 dialogue on the rivalry side.

Also, in his short story I know he doesn't really remember killing the Templars, but that was his first "Justice Mode" so I think as he merges more fully with Justice he can retain more memory from these events. He remembers trying to or killing Ella. He remembers going ballistic on the Templars for Karl.

It is hard to really gauge how much of himself is left when he flips to Justice mode, but I'm under the impression that the more he attempts to fight off and split himself from Justice (like in rivalry mode) the worse his blackouts afflict him. If he accepts the merger (as in friendship mode) he doesn't seem to suffer from these so called blackouts, and doesn't mention them in his dialogue in act 3.

It is possible that he's having the blackouts and just refuses to mention them for fear of worrying Hawke, or maybe due to refusing to accept it, himself. But it's equally as possible that he's not having them for the reason you mention, so it's hard to say. Unfortunately, it's never really spelled out for us, so we just have to guess.

Tempest18 wrote...

 Thanks for the answers, I guess I'm low on research because I've never Rivalmanced Anders before.
That picture is scary, but oh-so-awesome!  What scene is that from? I'm not sure I've seen it before...But I love the sarcastic!Hawke dialogue part "Here we go again" hehe.

It's from Legacy, like Arquen said.

That sarcastic!Hawke dialogue line, spoken, ends up being, "I can't take you anywhere." As horrible as that is, it makes me laugh, just a little.

Modifié par Leah.C, 09 août 2011 - 05:31 .

[berelinde]

Tempest18 wrote...

 Thanks for the answers, I guess I'm low on research because I've never Rivalmanced Anders before <_<
That picture is scary, but oh-so-awesome!  What scene is that from? I'm not sure I've seen it before...But I love the sarcastic!Hawke dialogue part "Here we go again" hehe.

It's from Legacy.


Edit: ninja'd

Modifié par berelinde, 09 août 2011 - 05:28 .

[Dark_Rogue]

Andraste's knickers...I really, really need to play Legacy now...I downloaded it when it first came out and still haven't touched it yet 

Leah.C wrote...

It's from Legacy, like Arquen said. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/smile.png[/smilie]


That sarcastic!Hawke dialogue line, spoken, ends up being, "I can't take you anywhere." As horrible as that is, it makes me laugh, just a little.

It's like one of those things you shouldn't laugh at, but you can't help it.  Like when I see Fenris do his glowy-fist thing on poor unsuspecting peoples, I always tend to chuckle at it xD

Modifié par Tempest18, 09 août 2011 - 05:31 .

[L.C.]

Tempest18 wrote...
It's like one of those things you shouldn't laugh at, but you can't help it.  Like when I see Fenris do his glowy-fist thing on poor unsuspecting peoples, I always tend to chuckle at it xD

Like when I 'accidentally' stood all my companions on top of traps and then 'accidentally' hit the activation lever just to watch them fly into the walls.

Totally accidentally, of course.

Anders bounced!

Modifié par Leah.C, 09 août 2011 - 05:35 .

[Dark_Rogue]

Leah.C wrote...

Tempest18 wrote...
It's like one of those things you shouldn't laugh at, but you can't help it.  Like when I see Fenris do his glowy-fist thing on poor unsuspecting peoples, I always tend to chuckle at it xD

Like when I 'accidentally' stood all my companions on top of traps and then 'accidentally' hit the activation lever just to watch them fly into the walls.

Totally accidentally, of course.

Anders bounced!

I remember watching a gameplay video a few days ago and I think Anders was hit with a spell of some kind and it sent him sailing off the left side of the screen.  I it made me laugh so much and I don't know why, maybe because it was late...or maybe because the physics thing made me laugh: No one should be able to fly that far, should they? 

Modifié par Tempest18, 09 août 2011 - 05:40 .

[SurelyForth]

[baseless speculation]I think that there might be degrees of control, too. If Justice is acting on something felt by Anders, such as his emotions over Karl and his fear of being taken (because he was at risk, too), Justice emerges but Anders is aware and can, thus, be called back into dominance (like during dissent.

The blackouts would happen when Justice is taking charge on his own accord or acting directly against Anders' wishes. It's almost as if he can partition Anders off at will on the rivalmance, which is the creepiest. [/speculation]

[L.C.]

SurelyForth wrote...

[baseless speculation]I think that there might be degrees of control, too. If Justice is acting on something felt by Anders, such as his emotions over Karl and his fear of being taken (because he was at risk, too), Justice emerges but Anders is aware and can, thus, be called back into dominance (like during dissent.

The blackouts would happen when Justice is taking charge on his own accord or acting directly against Anders' wishes. It's almost as if he can partition Anders off at will on the rivalmance, which is the creepiest. [/speculation]

This makes a lot of sense. 

[L.C.]

Tempest18 wrote...

Leah.C wrote...

Tempest18 wrote...
It's like one of those things you shouldn't laugh at, but you can't help it.  Like when I see Fenris do his glowy-fist thing on poor unsuspecting peoples, I always tend to chuckle at it xD

Like when I 'accidentally' stood all my companions on top of traps and then 'accidentally' hit the activation lever just to watch them fly into the walls.

Totally accidentally, of course.

Anders bounced!

I remember watching a gameplay video a few days ago and I think Anders was hit with a spell of some kind and it sent him sailing off the left side of the screen.  I it made me laugh so much and I don't know why, maybe because it was late...or maybe because the physics thing made me laugh: No one should be able to fly that far, should they? 

I have a video of it, but was embarrassed to post it because I had to take it with my camera (PS3 console version, and too lazy to set up the video recorder, damn me.)

But hey. I'll go for it.

EDIT: Removed video link. I'd prefer not to offend people, even unintentionally.

I stand by my assertion that it was all completely accidental. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Modifié par Leah.C, 09 août 2011 - 07:47 .

[Sinaxi]

I definitely think he has more control on friendship (can tell what's going on/etc) than on rivalry, I don't think he's just "not mentioning it" (blackouts). Hepler made it sound like at that point Justice just basically takes over to do the bombing because I think a rivalry Anders has just given up trying to fight him. Friendship Anders is more accepting of the merger and they aren't like this insane split personality duo (kind of how I view them on rivalry) they are...Janders! So I personally don't think friendship Anders has blackouts, he is generally aware of what is going on concerning Justice. Frindship definitely seems to garner him a bit more control in that department...but he is also not battling against Justice on friendship they are working together as one so yeah.

Modifié par Tidra, 09 août 2011 - 05:58 .

[Sinaxi]

But, amg good morning everyone...! I slept wwwaaaay too long, it's like 1 here. >.< I think I was still talking to you at like 3 AM Leah.

EDIT. ROFL. AT THAT VIDEO. Of COURSE Carver is the freaking idiot that just stands there for 5 minutes....being a Templar has killed all his remaining brain cells. Grey Warden Carver ftw

Modifié par Tidra, 09 août 2011 - 06:01 .

[L.C.]

Tidra wrote...

But, amg good morning everyone...! I slept wwwaaaay too long, it's like 1 here. >.< I think I was still talking to you at like 3 AM Leah.

EDIT. ROFL. AT THAT VIDEO. Of COURSE Carver is the freaking idiot that just stands there for 5 minutes....being a Templar has killed all his remaining brain cells. Grey Warden Carver ftw

You were! I don't sleep.

And I do tend to agree with the idea that he doesn't have the memory blackouts on a friendship path, I just don't completely discount the possibility, either.

And :innocent: Carver just would not go down. I love Templar!Carver. He's such a horrible jerkwad.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

To add to Surely's [baseless speculation], I think that how much Anders is fighting a given takeover may contribute to how much he remembers after. In cases where he blacks out, Justice is pretty much having to render him unconscious in order to 'win.' It's the difference between shoving someone out of the way and taking the wheel versus having a knock-down, drag-out fight over who is going to steer. In cases where he remembers it, he gives up and lets Justice pilot for a bit. When he blacks out, it's because he's fought justice tooth and nail until he essentially passes out.

In cases like Ella or the Wardens, I think that it's much harder for Anders to get control back than it is for Justice to take over in the first place. Once he's stepped out of the way, he can't just shove Justice to the side very easily

Of course, I don't think that complete "I'm in charge or you're in charge" switches are the ideal way to do this here (or if they are, they need to be better negotiated... somehow.)

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 09 août 2011 - 06:16 .

[Sinaxi]

Um...what? I hope you're joking. If not, that's the stupidest thing to passive-aggressively rage at someone for.

[L.C.]

Anders was in the video. I posted it because it seemed terribly silly and borderline glitchy for Anders to fly quite so far and bounce around in such an exaggerated manner. It wasn't a false title. It wasn't about Carver at all (who I actually quite like). Carver happened to be in the party and stay standing longer, so he was on screen longer. I found it amusing because it was so terribly unrealistic and silly-looking.

Back on topic... I actually very much like CulturalGeekGirl's explanation of the control/blackout/memory issue.

Modifié par Leah.C, 09 août 2011 - 07:37 .

[berelinde]

Brodyaha wrote...


Sorry, but I think this thread is about Anders, not posting videos of slicing Carver in a Carta hideout under false titles.

There are going to be characters we all dislike, but that's both off-topic and unnecessary.

Er, what? I'm confused. Lining up three NPCs on a trap and pulling the lever is definitely silly, but I don't think it was meant as a gesture of hate. Leah C. doesn't seem to dislike Anders, for example. And to be fair, Anders (and Varric) got sliced, too. Carver was just the only one who wasn't knocked out by it, and his fortitude score was probably high enough to keep him in place instead of being knocked aside like Anders and Varric.

Lining up characters on a trap and pulling the switch is good fun. It's childish, but it would be a sad, sad world if we couldn't do childish things every once in a while.

FWIW, I lined up my guys (same team) on one of the spike traps and tripped it a few times for fun. And the same thing appeared during the demo gameplay trailer, somewhere between 16 and 18 minutes in.

[Dark_Rogue]

That video is so cruel....but I find myself laughing at it, poor Carver. Get out of the way, of the huge nasty spikey blades boy!! xD