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[Kim Shepard]

@Aeowyn: I guess I haven't reached a point in the game where he seems against it enough that he wants them to break up. Most of the lines that I've read which sound like Justice wants nothing to do with Hawke are rivalmance lines.

[sassperella]

Miri1984 wrote...

I don't think he spent his first twelve years there or he wouldn't have ended up in the Ferelden Circle. I suspect they moved to Ferelden when he was a child or even earlier.

Then why give him that nickname in the circle if he lived in Ferelden before going there? People are moved about in the circles, it's been mentioned before just look at Karl. Does the Anderfels even have a circle? I don't know. 
Anyhoo it was just a passing musing when reading the codex 

[Aeowyn]

Well he doesn't specifically tell friend romancing Hawke to go. The only time I've heard that Justice disapproves in my romance is during the romance scene. But I do have a feeling that he disapproves of Anders falling in love in the first place. Love is a distraction.

Modifié par Aeowyn, 23 mars 2011 - 07:36 .

[Kim Shepard]

I didn't say he approves of Anders falling in love. I'm sure he'd rather avoid those sort of complications. I just think it's easier for him to accept and let it happen with a friendmance because Hawke isn't trying to discourage Anders from the cause.

[Threeparts]

Kim Shepard wrote...
@Aeowyn: I guess I haven't reached a point in the game where he seems against it enough that he wants them to break up. Most of the lines that I've read which sound like Justice wants nothing to do with Hawke are rivalmance lines.

That's part of why I believe J/V has given up on struggling against the couple in the friend-romance. He's not being provoked by Hawke as much as when they're rivals, so he has less reason to interfere with Anders and remains passive. The more passive J/V is, the more free will I believe Anders would have.

There's the argument that it means Anders is less prepared to struggle against his control when it's necessary, but my response is that by provoking Justice you're making his hold on Anders firmer, and basically helping him pick apart Anders' defences by giving him those openings.
This is why I like this game so much: it can be interpreted in so many ways, depending on your personal choices and beliefs. 

Also:

Hawke wut r u doin

Modifié par Threeparts, 23 mars 2011 - 07:44 .

[Miri1984]

sassperella wrote...

Miri1984 wrote...

I don't think he spent his first twelve years there or he wouldn't have ended up in the Ferelden Circle. I suspect they moved to Ferelden when he was a child or even earlier.

Then why give him that nickname in the circle if he lived in Ferelden before going there? People are moved about in the circles, it's been mentioned before just look at Karl. Does the Anderfels even have a circle? I don't know. 
Anyhoo it was just a passing musing when reading the codex 

I think Gaider said "his family is from the Anderfels" I pictured it as them arriving in a  Ferelden village and Anders being teased for being an Anders IYKWIM. Also we know he was in the Ferelden circle from Awakenings and banter in DA2. 

[Kim Shepard]

Threeparts wrote...

There's the argument that it means Anders is less prepared to struggle against his control when it's necessary, but my response is that by provoking Justice you're making his hold on Anders firmer, and basically helping him pick apart Anders' defences by giving him those openings.

Well, Kaya seemed to do just fine talking him down when he was about to kill the mage woman. On those occassions where he loses control completely, I think Hawke really is the best thing to help with that, and not any amount of control that Anders could try to have over Justice.

[Threeparts]

Kim Shepard wrote...

Threeparts wrote...

There's the argument that it means Anders is less prepared to struggle against his control when it's necessary, but my response is that by provoking Justice you're making his hold on Anders firmer, and basically helping him pick apart Anders' defences by giving him those openings.

Well, Kaya seemed to do just fine talking him down when he was about to kill the mage woman. On those occassions where he loses control completely, I think Hawke really is the best thing to help with that, and not any amount of control that Anders could try to have over Justice.

I'm mostly referring to Act III stuff here and their relationship over those three years, as I believe the Alrik quest takes place before you're in a full romance with him. It leads to his Questioning Beliefs quest and the whole "you saw what I almost did to that girl line, but I'm still a man blah blah." At that point J/V's effect isn't as strong as it is later, and we haven't yet had the struggle with J/V over Anders visiting Hawke for the night.

I should add that I do think that Hawke probably has the best chance of talking him down, whether friend or rival, but Hawke isn't always going to be there to help him, so fostering Anders' attempts at controlling himself can't hurt.

Modifié par Threeparts, 23 mars 2011 - 08:05 .

[sassperella]

Miri1984 wrote...

sassperella wrote...

Miri1984 wrote...

I don't think he spent his first twelve years there or he wouldn't have ended up in the Ferelden Circle. I suspect they moved to Ferelden when he was a child or even earlier.

Then why give him that nickname in the circle if he lived in Ferelden before going there? People are moved about in the circles, it's been mentioned before just look at Karl. Does the Anderfels even have a circle? I don't know. 
Anyhoo it was just a passing musing when reading the codex 

I think Gaider said "his family is from the Anderfels" I pictured it as them arriving in a  Ferelden village and Anders being teased for being an Anders IYKWIM. Also we know he was in the Ferelden circle from Awakenings and banter in DA2. 

Yes sorry I put that badly, I knew he was in the Ferelden circle, but people are moved around in circles from time to time so wondered if he'd been moved there as we know people are moved around from Karl. And also if his parents were from the Anderfels they would have affected his upbringing. Anyway as I said it was just something that occured from the codex I didn't read it before.

[Sjofn]

I like Sebastian. I get why other people don't, but even though he makes Leliana look like a hardcore atheist and sometimes you just want to smack him in the back of the head because he's that sort of religious person who thinks they're helping with their blah blah blah about the Maker's plan including terrible things happening to people that don't remotely deserve it, I can't help but like him. 'Cause he means well, and until Anders pounds on his berserk button, he takes people disagreeing with him in stride. Even at the end when he's flipping out on me, I can't hate him for it. I agree with him on the "why the hell are we talking about the Rite of Annulment when Anders is right here," front, and I don't blame him at all for turning on me for sparing Anders. I'd probably do the same, were I him.

Plus his accent is h-o-t.


EDIT: I'm totally doomed to be at least 4 pages behind at any given moment, I am a terrible person.

Modifié par Sjofn, 23 mars 2011 - 08:06 .

[Aeowyn]

Sebastian bothers me more because he can never make a decision of what he wants until his need for revenge makes it for him, and by that time I just have a difficult time taking his threat seriously.

What I've been wondering for ages though is, if you don't have the Sebastian DLC, who says that you have to kill Anders?

[Threeparts]

sassperella wrote...

Miri1984 wrote...

I think Gaider said "his family is from the Anderfels" I pictured it as them arriving in a  Ferelden village and Anders being teased for being an Anders IYKWIM. Also we know he was in the Ferelden circle from Awakenings and banter in DA2. 

Yes sorry I put that badly, I knew he was in the Ferelden circle, but people are moved around in circles from time to time so wondered if he'd been moved there as we know people are moved around from Karl. And also if his parents were from the Anderfels they would have affected his upbringing. Anyway as I said it was just something that occured from the codex I didn't read it before.

The actual quote.

I think he was probably born in Ferelden to parents from the Anderfels, partly due to the lack of accent, and partly due to the drawing of a tiger chewing on Templars in the Fereldan Circle's library, which I believe he did pre-Harrowing, as an apprentice. I could be way off, but still. I love the idea that he got the "Anders" nickname as a kid new to the Circle and he's basically adopted it as his real name over the last decade or two. None of our companions or other NPCs ever question it - but then, none of the four LIs have surnames.

[Vitani]

Aeowyn wrote...

Sebastian bothers me more because he can never make a decision of what he wants until his need for revenge makes it for him, and by that time I just have a difficult time taking his threat seriously.

What I've been wondering for ages though is, if you don't have the Sebastian DLC, who says that you have to kill Anders?

Nobody as far as I remember (forgot to download my DLCs for the first run...). Not sure about Fenris though as I do not remember if he leaves before or after the scene with Anders.

Modifié par Asheris, 23 mars 2011 - 08:22 .

[Threeparts]

Aeowyn wrote...

Sebastian bothers me more because he can never make a decision of what he wants until his need for revenge makes it for him, and by that time I just have a difficult time taking his threat seriously.

O hai Sebastian.

[Kim Shepard]

Threeparts wrote...

I'm mostly referring to Act III stuff here and their relationship over those three years, as I believe the Alrik quest takes place before you're in a full romance with him. It leads to his Questioning Beliefs quest and the whole "you saw what I almost did to that girl line, but I'm still a man blah blah." At that point J/V's effect isn't as strong as it is later, and we haven't yet had the struggle with J/V over Anders visiting Hawke for the night.

That's true, but I have a lot of faith in Hawke's powers of persuasion. xD That star-shaped icon seems to be the solution to everything. Even later on, as Anders loses more control, I think Hawke has a better chance of helping him than Anders could ever have on his own.

Without Hawke... yeah, it would be good if Anders had better control in case she isn't around, but making the spirit angry doesn't seem like the best solution for a Hawke who normally doesn't disagree with Justice. I wonder if there's any way to keep Justice from losing control like he did when he almost killed the mage.

Aeowyn wrote...

What I've been wondering for ages though is, if you don't have the Sebastian DLC, who says that you have to kill Anders?

I won't reach that point in the game for quite a while... but if no one else knows by then, I'll definitely find out.

[Miri1984]

Finished my All That Remains one shot. It's on DevArt as well. ff.net is completely buggered for me at the moment, I can't put any of my chapters up which is truly, truly annoying me.

[HolyJellyfish]

@Miri1984

Try replacing the word 'property' in the url address with 'content' when you receive the error message, as you try to update your chapters.

I just finished Heavy in your Arms using this method.


As far as Justice goes, I'm under the impression he is perfectly HAPPY with Anders's relationship with Hawke, since Hawke's estate is a perfect hideout to keep that mage from being discovered from the Templars. He is, however, very unhappy with a Rivalmance, since I imagine Hawke is challenging his authority/control over the poor mage.

Modifié par HolyJellyfish, 23 mars 2011 - 08:38 .

[HolyJellyfish]

BTW. I have a very difficult time romancing any of the other characters, even in my other playthroughs.

I don't think it has anything to do with the characters being less romancable, or Anders simply being more hotter.

Just romancing him makes me feel so much more tied into the overarching story. He is sort of like romancing Morrigan and Alistair combined. You feel so much more involved.

[Kim Shepard]

HolyJellyfish wrote...

As far as Justice goes, I'm under the impression he is perfectly HAPPY with Anders's relationship with Hawke, since Hawke's estate is a perfect hideout to keep that mage from being discovered from the Templars. He is, however, very unhappy with a Rivalmance, since I imagine Hawke is challenging his authority/control over the poor mage.

Kaya Hawke hopes you're right about Justice being happy. And I like the idea of Hawke using her estate as a mage hideout. Does it still have all those underground tunnels to Darktown?

[Aeowyn]

Yup, you can give Anders the key to the basement if he needs a quick escape from his clinic

[Sable Rhapsody]

Kim Shepard wrote...
And I like the idea of Hawke using her estate as a mage hideout. Does it still have all those underground tunnels to Darktown?

I know Anders says in Act 2 that Hawke has too much interaction with the nobility and the guard for him to tell her details about the mage underground, but what does he think Hawke was doing all those three years between the Acts?  Waiting for templars to come take her friends?  HELL NO.  I like to think that during that time, Natale Hawke was helping out on the sly.  Nothing open, but bribes, favors, lyrium, influence--anything she could do without openly tipping her hand to Meredith.

HolyJellyfish wrote...

Just romancing him makes me feel so much more tied into the overarching story. He is sort of like romancing Morrigan and Alistair combined. You feel so much more involved.

Agreed.  He has so much pull with the story.  And proportionally more heartbreak.  He has completely ruined me--I can't romance anyone but him, and I can't really get into any Hawke other than the maleficar I romanced him with.  GODDAMNIT ANDERS.

[Kim Shepard]

Awesome. Hawke's estate is just perfect. You know, until they had to flee the city. He's lucky Kaya loves him and supports the cause, because I have other characters (Kane Amell) who would rage about being chased out of his mansion. Sure, he hates the Chantry and was glad to see it go, but... that mansion. xD

[Ninche]

Aeowyn wrote...

Yup, you can give Anders the key to the basement if he needs a quick escape from his clinic

Haha I love you, here's the key to m ybasement. But no, horribly romantic, given the cercumstances

[Sable Rhapsody]

Kim Shepard wrote...

Awesome. Hawke's estate is just perfect. You know, until they had to flee the city. He's lucky Kaya loves him and supports the cause, because I have other characters (Kane Amell) who would rage about being chased out of his mansion. Sure, he hates the Chantry and was glad to see it go, but... that mansion. xD

Haha.  Natale Hawke was not happy about some of the consequences of their actions.  She really did love living in Hightown, rubbing shoulders with the nobles, being the beautiful new girl taking the parties by storm, etc.  But for all her love of luxury, she loved Anders more.  And she would rather be free and on the run with him, than have all the wealth and power in Kirkwall under the thumb of the templars.

[SgtElias]

HolyJellyfish wrote...

Just romancing him makes me feel so much more tied into the overarching story. He is sort of like romancing Morrigan and Alistair combined. You feel so much more involved.

I agree, but I tend to react in reverse. I adored Alistair and his romance so very much that I only romanced him once (well, technically, five times on the same character by re-loading different parts of the story over and over again. Yes. I was that pathetic). I know that already, as Alistair was reserved for my "canon" Warden, I'll reserve Anders for my canon Hawke, sort of as a symbol to myself that, even in other sub-dimensions of my canon, they belonged together.

Ridiculous and preposterous, I know. But it's my way of showing my love. And also, I suppose, the deep, deep level of fangirlism to which I have sunk.

Edited to say: Miri, I just read your "All that Remains" one-shot and I loved it! It was wonderful, thank you for sharing it.

Modifié par SgtElias, 23 mars 2011 - 09:38 .