57019 réponses à ce sujet

[berelinde]

It's worth an experiment. The advantage to doing it this way is that you will still be able to access saved games that include the DLC. DA2 is not like DA:O. You cannot easily disable DLC or force-load without it. If you decide later on that you simply cannot live without the "Andraste's face in your crotch" banter, or that "I didn't want to expose you to this" moment, you can always go back and recruit him, but with Varric around, you'll never miss the presence of another archer.


By aimo.

Modifié par berelinde, 12 août 2011 - 01:53 .

[cmessaz]

*can live without it* XD

[Sinaxi]

Addai67 wrote...

Tidra wrote...

Anders really loses himself on the rivalry path - where him and Justice split into pretty much two different people as I like to think of it since Anders can no longer even remember when Justice takes over unlike how he used to & still does on friendship. Trying so hard to fight against Justice in rivalry path only makes things worse for Anders, leads to depression, further loss of control, and overall breaks his very essence as a person because pretty much everyone around him is making him feel like crap for ever merging with Justice in the first place and he basically becomes a shell of a person.

I don't view him the same way at all on friendship, where he and Justice I truly believe are much more "together" or "one" or "merged" whatever you want to call it. He has felt supported with his decision, and has learned that Justice is something he has to live with and cannot just wish away or put into a little corner of his mind and hope it gets better. They are one person on friendship, whereas I view them as two people on rivalry - if you can even call Anders a person at that point in rivalry because he is so extremely broken as an individual if you end up siding with Templars and force him to help you.

*puzzled*  You think he's no longer a person if he retains his will?

Uhhh...yeah, I don't get your question. Anders loses his will on rivalry path which is what my point is...since I said as much. You think that someone just totally taking over your body without any recollection of it is "maintaining" will? At least on friendship Anders actually knows what is going on and has some measure of control over Justice. Even Hepler made a comment where she said that basically Justice & Anders sufficiently split by Act 3 for Justice to just take over and do the bombing himself. That is not maintaining will whatsoever.

And in regards to the "hardly a person" remark I made it is because of Anders mental state on rivalry, where he is completely depressed, extremely self-loathing, and frankly very suicidal. He implies as much when you make him side with Templars. He is, like I said, completely and totally broken. Doesn't sound like a very great *living* to me. No where did I say he was not a person for not "retaining" his will. (Which he doesn't even do on rivalry..like I said.)

[Fluffenstein]

cmessaz wrote...

YamiSnuffles wrote...

I don't get why this is even a thing. I don't think that anyone who likes Meredith is an insane despot or that anyone who likes Sebastian really loves waffles. Why are Anders fans terrorists? Or even, supposedly, all think terrorism iz liek so kewl cuz he's HAWT?

I know this whole thing makes me

esper wrote...

Because all Sebastian fans are fanatics? (I
am am a terrorist they are fanatic, humph.) The worst part is now I am
losing my like for Sebastian because his fans are so... urghh.

Yes, same. <.<

A little late to this conversation but my Internet died earlier. :[

I still like Sebastian, even if that thread likes to call us terrorists and what-not. I haven't gone to that thread and don't plan to, as advised not to earlier. I'm just going to laugh them off because liking a fake character who blows up a building makes us all terrorists now. I've also taken a sleeping pill and I am half asleep at the moment, so I don't really know how to explain how I feel at the moment~

I had waffles for breakfast, lunch and dinner too. I am a sparklebutt fan who loves waffles.

[cmessaz]

Yay! I'm a sparklebutt fan that likes waffles too. :3

And yeah it's irrational to dislike a character because of his fanbase, but unfortunately it's kinda inevitable. But TBH at least for me I just don't like him and I think it's a personality conflict. Even before I knew about The Last Straw stuff, he just rubbed me wrong. Of course I'm never one to try to convince other people to think like me, so it's all good!

[Fluffenstein]

cmessaz wrote...

Yay! I'm a sparklebutt fan that likes waffles too. :3

And yeah it's irrational to dislike a character because of his fanbase, but unfortunately it's kinda inevitable. But TBH at least for me I just don't like him and I think it's a personality conflict. Even before I knew about The Last Straw stuff, he just rubbed me wrong. Of course I'm never one to try to convince other people to think like me, so it's all good!

I just think Sebastians accent is sexy. :'D Though, I could never romance him because a chaste marriage sounds pretty boring. Anders is sexy and far from chaste so he is perfect for my Hawke~

Well, I think all of Sebastian is sexy, besides his personality.

[Melca36]

berelinde wrote...

cmessaz wrote...
I'll really miss the XP and the quests...but is there a way to disable DLC without uninstalling it? I kinda wanna see how it goes.

Sure, you can just not recruit Sebastian. Ignore his quest flags from Act 2 onward and never talk to him at all. He won't be in the Chantry when it goes up, so his fate is uncertain, but you won't have to listen to him in the Last Straw, either.

Edit: And I can confirm that it works as I state because I've played through it that way. You still get the quest flags and the prompts to go to the Chantry in your journal, but you can ignore them, if you would rather skip the Sebastian DLC content.

The added bonus is that you don't have to deal with Leliana, either.

\\


Ok you inspired me. Going to try this in the next run!! 

[Sinaxi]

cmessaz wrote...

Yay! I'm a sparklebutt fan that likes waffles too. :3

And yeah it's irrational to dislike a character because of his fanbase, but unfortunately it's kinda inevitable. But TBH at least for me I just don't like him and I think it's a personality conflict. Even before I knew about The Last Straw stuff, he just rubbed me wrong. Of course I'm never one to try to convince other people to think like me, so it's all good!

When I watched his youtube video of the Last Straw when I found out about him (since I didn't get the DLC) I was like....feeling bad because I was laughing at him and that scene is supposed to be all sad...>.< rofl I think it was the first thing of him I watched. Oh, no I watched the Anders talk first and then the first scene for Last Straw...I was lol'ing when he was like "Why are we arguing this when the monster who did this is RIGHT HERE?" Hahaha...clearly because Meredith does not care and just wants to murder all the Mages in the circle for funsies.

But when he went all out with the whole:

"No! You cannot let this abomination walk free. He dies, or I am returning to Starkhaven and I will bring such an army with me on my return that there will be nothing left of Kirkwall for these maleficarum to rule."
Then...
"I swear to you, I will come back and find your precious Anders. I will teach him what true justice is."

I was like...LOL WHAT?! OH, NO YOU DIDN'T. NOOO, YOU DIDN'T! My Hawke would have been like "GTFO of here, Sebastian, and go ahead and bring your damn army."

Which also made me laugh a bit, since...Hawke & friends ditched town. So...yeah...o.O Idk where he got this idea that they would stick around and wait to be potentially slaughtered, as if that's the "rule" or something.

Modifié par Tidra, 12 août 2011 - 04:22 .

[Addai]

Tidra wrote...

Uhhh...yeah, I don't get your question. Anders loses his will on rivalry path which is what my point is...since I said as much. You think that someone just totally taking over your body without any recollection of it is "maintaining" will? At least on friendship Anders actually knows what is going on and has some measure of control over Justice. Even Hepler made a comment where she said that basically Justice & Anders sufficiently split by Act 3 for Justice to just take over and do the bombing himself. That is not maintaining will whatsoever.

And in regards to the "hardly a person" remark I made it is because of Anders mental state on rivalry, where he is completely depressed, extremely self-loathing, and frankly very suicidal. He implies as much when you make him side with Templars. He is, like I said, completely and totally broken. Doesn't sound like a very great *living* to me. No where did I say he was not a person for not "retaining" his will. (Which he doesn't even do on rivalry..like I said.)

Yeah I wasn't talking about his blackouts.  But the way I see it, what happens when he blacks out is the same thing that happens to him all the time in the friendship path, only Anders cooperates rather than fighting to maintain his individuality.  Justice gets his way either way- but he'll do it with or without Anders.  He's still the one running the show, he's still subverting Anders.  So I see the rivalry path as Anders maintaining his "self"- though at a cost.

Siding with the templars, it just makes no sense to me that Justice would not take control at that point, so I'm not talking about that either.

Modifié par Addai67, 12 août 2011 - 04:26 .

[cmessaz]

Fluffenstein wrote...

cmessaz wrote...

Yay! I'm a sparklebutt fan that likes waffles too. :3

And yeah it's irrational to dislike a character because of his fanbase, but unfortunately it's kinda inevitable. But TBH at least for me I just don't like him and I think it's a personality conflict. Even before I knew about The Last Straw stuff, he just rubbed me wrong. Of course I'm never one to try to convince other people to think like me, so it's all good!

I just think Sebastians accent is sexy. :'D Though, I could never romance him because a chaste marriage sounds pretty boring. Anders is sexy and far from chaste so he is perfect for my Hawke~

Well, I think all of Sebastian is sexy, besides his personality.

Yeah I can admit that his voice is sexy. His personality kills him for me though.

[Sinaxi]

Addai67 wrote...

Tidra wrote...

Uhhh...yeah, I don't get your question. Anders loses his will on rivalry path which is what my point is...since I said as much. You think that someone just totally taking over your body without any recollection of it is "maintaining" will? At least on friendship Anders actually knows what is going on and has some measure of control over Justice. Even Hepler made a comment where she said that basically Justice & Anders sufficiently split by Act 3 for Justice to just take over and do the bombing himself. That is not maintaining will whatsoever.

And in regards to the "hardly a person" remark I made it is because of Anders mental state on rivalry, where he is completely depressed, extremely self-loathing, and frankly very suicidal. He implies as much when you make him side with Templars. He is, like I said, completely and totally broken. Doesn't sound like a very great *living* to me. No where did I say he was not a person for not "retaining" his will. (Which he doesn't even do on rivalry..like I said.)

Yeah I wasn't talking about his blackouts.  But the way I see it, what happens when he blacks out is the same thing that happens to him all the time in the friendship path, only Anders cooperates rather than fighting to maintain his individuality.  Justice gets his way either way- but he'll do it with or without Anders.  He's still the one running the show, he's still subverting Anders.  So I see the rivalry path as Anders maintaining his "self"- though at a cost.

Siding with the templars, it just makes no sense to me that Justice would not take control at that point, so I'm not talking about that either.

How? Even on Rivalry, Anders is still trying to fight for Mages freedom. Anders is the one that chose to merge with Justice, and he did this in the hopes of achieving a greater good. Clearly, it did not work out as he quite expected.

To say that Justice is just the one totally running the show I just don't agree with when for the most part, Anders wants the same things that Justice wants. That, and the majority of the times I have seen Justice actually emerge, it is because Anders is a compromising situation emotionally (Karl's Tranquility, Alrik threatening Ella) and/or he is feeling particulary threatened (Legacy). Justice and Anders are, in a sense, partners. They share absolutely everything with each other, a common goal, and even a body. This idea of Ander's *core* self that you are talking about doesn't really work in a situation where he is sharing his mind and his body with someone else that has literally become a part of HIM. The entire situation has changed his "self" long before Hawke met him.

He still fights back against Justice on Friendship when he needs to regain control, he isn't just "cooperating" when he realizes that Justice has taken over and is not exactly in the right frame of mind. Justice is not "running the show" considering Anders has an actual measure of control over him on friendship..besides, if he was actually running the show - Anders would never even get in a relationship with Hawke because Justice believes that she is a distraction. If Justice was running the show "Anders" would not really exist.

How can Anders fight back against Justice on Rivalry when he doesn't even know what's happening until it's over? Sure, he fights back in general against Justice on rivalry - and like you say this is at a cost. An extremely large cost, considering his fighting is inevitably useless when he is trying to split up something that is literally apart of him.

If you want to talk about a sense of "individuality" or "self", what is it that you see in Anders that shows you he has "maintained" his self on rivalry? Is it the depression, the self-loathing? Being able to be cowed into submission in the Last Straw to side against the very people he merged with Justice in the first place to fight? Yeah. That is not who Anders is. That is Anders at his absolute lowest, considering he wants to kill himself.

Modifié par Tidra, 12 août 2011 - 05:00 .

[Addai]

I agree it's all the same and which one you do doesn't really matter- also that whatever happened to Anders has already happened by the time Hawke meets him. The question is whether you consider this state of being unnatural and therefore something he should try to limit and suppress, or whether Anders just (mostly) goes along with it. I'm inclined to agree that there is no "Anders" in DA2, just vestiges. I do consider it something unnatural, though, so if it were me and a spirit was taking me over and carrying out violent acts- I would want to fight it. I liken it to being drunk and not being able to control your body. Even if you aren't completely unconscious- even though you might even feel good- it's not a good place to be.

So yeah, I would consider the rivalry maintaining his self moreso than the friendship path- though since it's futile I can also see why people wouldn't want to do it. It's the problem I have with both him and Merrill. Why even bother to get involved in their issues. I just take whatever points come from whether my character is siding with mages or templars.

[Sinaxi]

Addai67 wrote...

I agree it's all the same and which one you do doesn't really matter- also that whatever happened to Anders has already happened by the time Hawke meets him. The question is whether you consider this state of being unnatural and therefore something he should try to limit and suppress, or whether Anders just (mostly) goes along with it. I'm inclined to agree that there is no "Anders" in DA2, just vestiges. I do consider it something unnatural, though, so if it were me and a spirit was taking me over and carrying out violent acts- I would want to fight it. I liken it to being drunk and not being able to control your body. Even if you aren't completely unconscious- even though you might even feel good- it's not a good place to be.

So yeah, I would consider the rivalry maintaining his self moreso than the friendship path- though since it's futile I can also see why people wouldn't want to do it. It's the problem I have with both him and Merrill. Why even bother to get involved in their issues. I just take whatever points come from whether my character is siding with mages or templars.

Well, if you think that practically nothing of Anders exists anymore then why care whether or not he supposedly holds onto that through rivalry? I don't think he just "goes along with it" as I have said and considering the outcomes it is still clear to me that he does better suppressing Justice on friendship than he does on rivalry. So I don't really see why you argue that rivalry is better when he actually does worse at keeping a lid on Justice. In the long run it is a situation that not anyone but even Anders and Justice themselves can fully understand, he says as much as to you in Act 1. Questioning whether it is an unnatural state doesn't have much to do with it at this point, he took a spirit into himself - clearly most people don't consider this "natural", it is how he handles this merging that matters.

I mean, obviously you are allowed to have your opinion but my standpoint is going to be entirely different and is going to stay totally different because I don't believe that the only thing left of Anders "being" are tiny scraps..while Justice somehow apparently takes up the other 90% of him. Anders has grown as a person, and has changed quite drastically from Awakening and a lot of that has to do with Justice but he is still the same "person" to me, albeit still a changed one given he now has someone else that is also apart of him. Saying there is "No Anders" in DA2 and that Justice is primarily "running the show" is just something I will have to flat out disagree with you on.

Regardless, this "self" that you think he holds onto in rivalry is not even who Anders really is unless you consider a person that is at their absolute lowest, and so completely broken that they no longer even have the will to fight for what they believe in as being themselves...which I don't.

Modifié par Tidra, 12 août 2011 - 06:12 .

[Tyrium]

To me, Anders on rivalry is completely broken. Killing him there is a kindness. On friendship, he is still a person, haunted, but still whole enough to live. I just can't do the rivalry, I've only seen the videos, so I may be wrong, but it just seems too cruel to do that to him.

re Sebastian: I leave him in the chantry. I've played the quests, but they're not worth the *stab stab stab* I feel towards him. Something about Sebastian rubs me very much the wrong way, although he does have a sexy accent

Modifié par Tyrium, 12 août 2011 - 07:02 .

[CulturalGeekGirl]

I did an essay a while ago on how the Anders thread is like Anders and the Fenris thread is like Fenris. I've noticed a similar parallel between the Sebastian and Cullen threads, our two chantry-boy-heart-throbs.

The fact that we get Sebastian instead of Cullen makes me a little sad. The fact that that DLC could have been freaking NATHANIEL makes me weep openly. It would have added SO MUCH to have a character who knew them both before... though could they have done it justice? 

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 12 août 2011 - 07:11 .

[CulturalGeekGirl]

I read somewhere recently that when the DLC was in the drawing board phase (just people throwing out ideas for it) one of the ideas was Nathaniel. The problem was that Nathaniel might be dead, and people thought that two "back to life handwaves" from awakening would be too much. So they decided to go another way.

I don't remember where I read this, so I can't give you a citation. But it sounded legitimate, and also made me weep and wail.

[Avilia]

Re Nate :

 Link

There's a link in the post 

Modifié par Avilia, 12 août 2011 - 07:41 .

[Arquen]

 Yes, when I read that I wept openly too (ok not really but I was definitely sad/peeved)... especially because as a Fenris fan having both Nate and Fen in the same group would have been endless lolz and brood off.

I like Seb. I waffle (heh) on him somewhat, but he has been an interesting character and I do like him.

As for Anders I don't know how much of "himself" he retains on either side. He states that him and Justice are completely merged. On the rivalry path he fights Justice more, but I don't think that he is necessarily recovering himself by doing such. It is a losing battle fighting with yourself. Oh, man my brain just went to Liar, Liar...

 -- "I'm Kicking MY ASS!" LOL, start at 0:46

It pretty much is a constant internal battle though on rivalry. For Hawke and himself he tries to fight off Justice's direct control. Lets not forget Justice isn't a passive spirit. He has a personality and an identity and spent time in Kristoff's body. He isn't going to just fade away or become passive at whim. On rivalry they are fighting for control and "headspace," but I don't think Anders is really retaining or regaining his old DAA self or anything. He is just stuck in a losing struggle that ends up fracturing his psyche.

On frienship he becomes Janders. He fully merges with Justice and accepts this is the thing/person/identity he is now. He "is the cause of mages," and fully embraces that. So, honestly if we are talking about identity he regains more of "himself" on friendship path, not rival because he is on the whole a more complete person.

Modifié par Arquen, 12 août 2011 - 07:54 .

[dangereusegirl]

So I was randomly looking up quotes, and this one caught my eye:

"Disarm, disarm. The sword of murder is not the balance of justice. Blood does not wipe out dishonor, nor violence indicate possession." -Julia Ward Howe

It made me think of dear Anders, and not necessarily because of the word 'justice' (though that didn't hurt it either).

Just thought I'd share with everyone

[AndreaDraco]

ashyraine wrote...


by HonestLies

Great picture! The cat, in particular, is very well-drawn! Kudos!

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

YamiSnuffles wrote...



Why did this have to get top? Honestly, I have nothing intelligent to say at the moment, so I'm just going to leave it.

Anders got the glow in all the right places. :wub::wub::wub:

[MG800]

So, rival vs friend again?
I'll throw some cents: on the friendship patch, we support Anders cause, so he automatically starts to think of the merger as a "sacrifice that was worth it". Justice wins, he wins. Now, he doesn't fight with Justice, it's a partnership - but hypothetically if he did try, just out of blue - do you think he would win? He doesn't "control" Justice. He's agreeing with him - that's different. See, he doesn't have to be completely aware of his influence and his effects on him. And consequences. Merger erased them both, and made a completely new being - on rivalry, or friendship it's not a human anymore. Now, before anyone say "no", that doesn't mean nothing of what's human left - it only means that technicly we're dealing now with a non-human being.
What is different: on friendship, he sees Justice as beneficial, and work with him - if we would propose to un-merge him, he would disagree, and let himself become a Janders - how much of human is in, is disputable.
On rivalry he see Justice as poisonous, and fight with it - it's a lost cause.
There isn't a good or bad approach - there is approach you, yourself feel better with. It's what suits you - because either way he can be lost.
Now that I think about it's a bit like lycantrophy - where Justice in this paralell would become his bloodlust. If we'll convince him to accept himself, and fight with bad guys with all he is - he's going to lose himself. Or he's going to lose himself fighting with what he became, full of self-loathing, and focusing on it, which doesn't really benefit anyone.

Modifié par MG800, 12 août 2011 - 01:16 .