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[kyuubifred]

Hello, Anders thread! On the topic of Wynne and her spirit, I think DG confirmed that Wynne (and Shale) would be appearing in his Asunder novel. I don't remember exactly when Asunder is meant to take place, but I'm fairly sure it's well after DA:O and possibly after DA2's Act 3. Thus, Wynne is potentially alive several years after her possession, so long as she wasn't killed in Origins.

Just thought I'd share.

[berelinde]

kyuubifred wrote...

Hello, Anders thread! On the topic of Wynne and her spirit, I think DG confirmed that Wynne (and Shale) would be appearing in his Asunder novel. I don't remember exactly when Asunder is meant to take place, but I'm fairly sure it's well after DA:O and possibly after DA2's Act 3. Thus, Wynne is potentially alive several years after her possession, so long as she wasn't killed in Origins.

Just thought I'd share.

Wynne's son would certainly be alive anyway. I'm not overeager to see Wynne again, though. Not a fan. And that's putting it mildly.

[nitefyre410]

esper wrote...

Faith doesn't have to be passive. You obviosuly have not met some of the persons studying religion at my university.
Besides that I tend to agree. Wynne's Faith had been with her, her whole life - just from the Fade and there is a good reason to belive it was so attached to her because it was a spirit who thought it existed to guide and inspire. I think Faith got lucky - try to imagine it in... say Petrice.
The problem with Justice was that he was always and eye-for-an-eye which actually is vengance. He also solved his problem with force before. Then add Anders for a really short fuse and narrow his view of justice down to being most about mages, and you have a really dangerous mix.
Speaking of corrupting spirits - how do you corrupt Hope?

 

Justice  to Rage
Hope to Despair
Faith to Nihlism
Love to Lust
Compassion to Hate
Courage to Recklessness
Humilty to Pride 

All of these are IMHO  and my not be how everyone sees them.

[esper]

nitefyre410 wrote...

esper wrote...

Faith doesn't have to be passive. You obviosuly have not met some of the persons studying religion at my university.
Besides that I tend to agree. Wynne's Faith had been with her, her whole life - just from the Fade and there is a good reason to belive it was so attached to her because it was a spirit who thought it existed to guide and inspire. I think Faith got lucky - try to imagine it in... say Petrice.
The problem with Justice was that he was always and eye-for-an-eye which actually is vengance. He also solved his problem with force before. Then add Anders for a really short fuse and narrow his view of justice down to being most about mages, and you have a really dangerous mix.
Speaking of corrupting spirits - how do you corrupt Hope?

 

Justice  to Rage
Hope to Despair
Faith to Nihlism
Love to Lust
Compassion to Hate
Courage to Recklessness
Humilty to Pride 

All of these are IMHO  and my not be how everyone sees them.

That is just converting them to demons and that is not necerssarily true. Rember Justice became Vengance with is not Rage, but the darker side of Justice.

[Nilfalasiel]

berelinde wrote...

Wynne's son would certainly be alive anyway. I'm not overeager to see Wynne again, though. Not a fan. And that's putting it mildly.

Heh. I'd rather have had any other companion reappear in Awakening instead of her...

But meeting her son could be interesting. Provided he's not like his mother.

Modifié par Nilfalasiel, 14 août 2011 - 03:39 .

[Giggles_Manically]

Every good thing has its darker side:

Justice becomes Revenge.
Faith becomes Fanaticism
Nobility can become Pride.

I like how Justice shows that something good like Justice, when pushed can become something darker.

[nitefyre410]

esper wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...

esper wrote...

Faith doesn't have to be passive. You obviosuly have not met some of the persons studying religion at my university.
Besides that I tend to agree. Wynne's Faith had been with her, her whole life - just from the Fade and there is a good reason to belive it was so attached to her because it was a spirit who thought it existed to guide and inspire. I think Faith got lucky - try to imagine it in... say Petrice.
The problem with Justice was that he was always and eye-for-an-eye which actually is vengance. He also solved his problem with force before. Then add Anders for a really short fuse and narrow his view of justice down to being most about mages, and you have a really dangerous mix.
Speaking of corrupting spirits - how do you corrupt Hope?

 

Justice  to Rage
Hope to Despair
Faith to Nihlism
Love to Lust
Compassion to Hate
Courage to Recklessness
Humilty to Pride 

All of these are IMHO  and my not be how everyone sees them.

That is just converting them to demons and that is not necerssarily true. Rember Justice became Vengance with is not Rage, but the darker side of Justice.

 


You right Vengence is not the vice of Justice its extreme purest sense - Lets say its Justice  with out  a sense of mercy or  temperence but  Vengence remains focused on the object of its ire.  Vengence is destructive but not unfocus where Rage on the only hand  just is.

[MG800]

nitefyre410 wrote...

esper wrote...

Faith doesn't have to be passive. You obviosuly have not met some of the persons studying religion at my university.
Besides that I tend to agree. Wynne's Faith had been with her, her whole life - just from the Fade and there is a good reason to belive it was so attached to her because it was a spirit who thought it existed to guide and inspire. I think Faith got lucky - try to imagine it in... say Petrice.
The problem with Justice was that he was always and eye-for-an-eye which actually is vengance. He also solved his problem with force before. Then add Anders for a really short fuse and narrow his view of justice down to being most about mages, and you have a really dangerous mix.
Speaking of corrupting spirits - how do you corrupt Hope?

 

Justice  to Rage
Hope to Despair
Faith to Nihlism
Love to Lust
Compassion to Hate
Courage to Recklessness
Humilty to Pride 

All of these are IMHO  and my not be how everyone sees them.

Love and Lust can be connected, but Lust can't become a darker side of Love - they're selfish in a diffrent way. Lust craves for a person - Love craves for a person to be happy. 
I said something already about Compassion and Hate - if you're too compassionate, you can't really hate anyone, except yourself. Self-pity is out of question for such a virtue.
Someone too humble can't become too prideful, it would be possible only with a split personality. Someone believing too much, can't be nihilistic - it would go against everything he/she believes in. Nihilism is a lack of faith, it's null faith, complete zero - therefore it can't be it's darker side.

Modifié par MG800, 14 août 2011 - 04:19 .

[Nameless2345]

I’m not even certain that spirits have to be corrupted to become dangerous, and think that Merrill (“all spirits are dangerous”) has a point. Pure emotions/concepts, bereft of counter-balances and practicality ARE dangerous. Let’s consider Love, for a start. It can easily become a monomania, amoral, ruthless obsession. There are examples in literature and even in DA2: Quentin. And no, there are no indications that he was acting out of lust.
Faith… Well, blind, unquestioning faith in god/cause caused enough atrocities in RL history.
Hope… There is a god of Hope in Warhammer 40K. He is also a god of schemers, dark sorcerers, traitors and mutants. A god of those who are eager to improve their lot in life at ANY cost.
Courage is nothing until it is tested. Hence, a need of conflict, of battle. No matter how unjust, cruel or needless – such concepts matter to humans, but not, I think, to a spirit of Courage.
Not sure about humility and compassion.

[nitefyre410]

MG800 wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...

esper wrote...

Faith doesn't have to be passive. You obviosuly have not met some of the persons studying religion at my university.
Besides that I tend to agree. Wynne's Faith had been with her, her whole life - just from the Fade and there is a good reason to belive it was so attached to her because it was a spirit who thought it existed to guide and inspire. I think Faith got lucky - try to imagine it in... say Petrice.
The problem with Justice was that he was always and eye-for-an-eye which actually is vengance. He also solved his problem with force before. Then add Anders for a really short fuse and narrow his view of justice down to being most about mages, and you have a really dangerous mix.
Speaking of corrupting spirits - how do you corrupt Hope?

 

Justice  to Rage
Hope to Despair
Faith to Nihlism
Love to Lust
Compassion to Hate
Courage to Recklessness
Humilty to Pride 

All of these are IMHO  and my not be how everyone sees them.

Love and Lust can be connected, but Lust can't become a darker side of Love - they're selfish in a diffrent way. Lust craves for a person - Love craves for a person to be happy. 
I said something already about Compassion and Hate - if you're too compassionate, you can't really hate anyone, except yourself. Self-pity is out of question for such a virtue.
Someone too humble can't become too prideful, it would be possible only with a split personality. Someone believing too much, can't be nihilistic - it would go against everything he/she believes in. Nihilism is a lack of faith, it's null faith, complete zero - therefore it can't be it's darker side.

 


Its a balancing Act   any vitrue that swings either to extreme  or its complete opposite  is a dangerous .

Lets take Faith

Extreme  : Zealotry
Balance:   Faith 
Opposite:  Nihlism

[berelinde]

Nameless2345 wrote...

I’m not even certain that spirits have to be corrupted to become dangerous, and think that Merrill (“all spirits are dangerous”) has a point. Pure emotions/concepts, bereft of counter-balances and practicality ARE dangerous. Let’s consider Love, for a start. It can easily become a monomania, amoral, ruthless obsession. There are examples in literature and even in DA2: Quentin. And no, there are no indications that he was acting out of lust.
Faith… Well, blind, unquestioning faith in god/cause caused enough atrocities in RL history.
Hope… There is a god of Hope in Warhammer 40K. He is also a god of schemers, dark sorcerers, traitors and mutants. A god of those who are eager to improve their lot in life at ANY cost.
Courage is nothing until it is tested. Hence, a need of conflict, of battle. No matter how unjust, cruel or needless – such concepts matter to humans, but not, I think, to a spirit of Courage.
Not sure about humility and compassion.

That's an interesting post. And it brings up a "Damned if you do; damned if you don't" scenario that I find intriguing. Emotion is always dangerous. See quoted examples. Lack of emotion is just as dangerous. The failure to temper one's actions with humanity can cause a great deal of damage.

Maybe Isabela was right.

[nitefyre410]

berelinde wrote...

Nameless2345 wrote...

I’m not even certain that spirits have to be corrupted to become dangerous, and think that Merrill (“all spirits are dangerous”) has a point. Pure emotions/concepts, bereft of counter-balances and practicality ARE dangerous. Let’s consider Love, for a start. It can easily become a monomania, amoral, ruthless obsession. There are examples in literature and even in DA2: Quentin. And no, there are no indications that he was acting out of lust.
Faith… Well, blind, unquestioning faith in god/cause caused enough atrocities in RL history.
Hope… There is a god of Hope in Warhammer 40K. He is also a god of schemers, dark sorcerers, traitors and mutants. A god of those who are eager to improve their lot in life at ANY cost.
Courage is nothing until it is tested. Hence, a need of conflict, of battle. No matter how unjust, cruel or needless – such concepts matter to humans, but not, I think, to a spirit of Courage.
Not sure about humility and compassion.

That's an interesting post. And it brings up a "Damned if you do; damned if you don't" scenario that I find intriguing. Emotion is always dangerous. See quoted examples. Lack of emotion is just as dangerous. The failure to temper one's actions with humanity can cause a great deal of damage.

Maybe Isabela was right.

 

Isabella was pretty much dead on  and I think thats what DA 2 was trying to get across that existing in the extremes on either side is bad thing.

Nameless just explained better than I did .

[MG800]

I think Spirit Abominations can be useful - if it's a right person. This person can't be alone too - it must be restrained if necessery and kept in check. So, yes, this system turns him/her into a pet.
It would be great, if we would got some new informations, maybe linked to Rivain - from what we've heard, they have a very different approach to possesion, then what we've seen so far.

Modifié par MG800, 14 août 2011 - 05:27 .

[nitefyre410]

MG800 wrote...

I think Spirit Abominations can be useful - if it's a right person. This person can't be alone too - it must be restrained if necessery and kept in check. So, yes, this system turns him/her into a pet.
It would be great, if we would get some new informations, maybe linked to Rivain - from what we heard, they have a very different approach on possesion, then everything we've seen so far.

That is Exactly what we need is more information because with what we have so far its very lacking.

[Giggles_Manically]

Didnt the one spirit in the Urn quest say that Jealousy is love's counterpoint?

I think that works.

[nitefyre410]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Didnt the one spirit in the Urn quest say that Jealousy is love's counterpoint?

I think that works.

 

This is could be true  - see  Love has to be one the hardest to find a true opposite of  because  when love goes wrong it leads to so many different extremes and vices.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

That looks like an Orbital Strike from lots of RTS games I have played.

Who knew Anders had a death star?

It's an Advent purge vessel. Anders is clearly a servant of the Unity. :wub::wub:

[KnightofPhoenix]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

That looks like an Orbital Strike from lots of RTS games I have played.

Who knew Anders had a death star?

It's an Advent purge vessel. Anders is clearly a servant of the Unity. :wub::wub:

Actually, I think Kirkwall is that way because the Advent used mass hysteria on it.

[CrimsonZephyr]

nitefyre410 wrote...

berelinde wrote...

Nameless2345 wrote...

I’m not even certain that spirits have to be corrupted to become dangerous, and think that Merrill (“all spirits are dangerous”) has a point. Pure emotions/concepts, bereft of counter-balances and practicality ARE dangerous. Let’s consider Love, for a start. It can easily become a monomania, amoral, ruthless obsession. There are examples in literature and even in DA2: Quentin. And no, there are no indications that he was acting out of lust.
Faith… Well, blind, unquestioning faith in god/cause caused enough atrocities in RL history.
Hope… There is a god of Hope in Warhammer 40K. He is also a god of schemers, dark sorcerers, traitors and mutants. A god of those who are eager to improve their lot in life at ANY cost.
Courage is nothing until it is tested. Hence, a need of conflict, of battle. No matter how unjust, cruel or needless – such concepts matter to humans, but not, I think, to a spirit of Courage.
Not sure about humility and compassion.

That's an interesting post. And it brings up a "Damned if you do; damned if you don't" scenario that I find intriguing. Emotion is always dangerous. See quoted examples. Lack of emotion is just as dangerous. The failure to temper one's actions with humanity can cause a great deal of damage.

Maybe Isabela was right.

 

Isabella was pretty much dead on  and I think thats what DA 2 was trying to get across that existing in the extremes on either side is bad thing.

Nameless just explained better than I did .

Unfortunately, Isabela lives such a completely carefree existence that she does nothing to actually improve the world she is in. By merely existing and living a life of thoughtless criminality, she brings a deluge of injustice down on everyone. The only thing that really spares her is that the Arishok ransacks Kirkwall before she possibly returns. Otherwise, Hawke and the rest of Kirkwall would have been justified in flaying her alive.

Apathy is just as damaging as conviction, if not more so.

[Aeowyn]

berelinde wrote...

kyuubifred wrote...

Hello, Anders thread! On the topic of Wynne and her spirit, I think DG confirmed that Wynne (and Shale) would be appearing in his Asunder novel. I don't remember exactly when Asunder is meant to take place, but I'm fairly sure it's well after DA:O and possibly after DA2's Act 3. Thus, Wynne is potentially alive several years after her possession, so long as she wasn't killed in Origins.

Just thought I'd share.

Wynne's son would certainly be alive anyway. I'm not overeager to see Wynne again, though. Not a fan. And that's putting it mildly.

Lol, you and me both. I am excited to read DG's new novel though. 

[Jean]

Arquen wrote...

How did this turn into a spuffy thread? Maker nooooo, lol.

How about that Anders, a lot of people have been commenting on his "whining" about mages/Templars. I actually found him not that irritable until act 3 when it was you are wrong I am right.. no other way about it. I was like... but, but,.... oh forget it he's gone. Still people seem to hate him for this constant in your face stance. I don't agree just wondering thoughts?

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

signcherie wrote...

I have to agree, I miss Greg Ellis's voice. It's not that the Adam Howden isn't good, but he just doesn't sound like Anders to me. Yet.

I had always wanted Anders and Cullen, both voiced by Greg Ellis, to run into each other. Would have made a really weird scene. And probably pretty funny and confusing, lol.

[Jean]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

signcherie wrote...

I have to agree, I miss Greg Ellis's voice. It's not that the Adam Howden isn't good, but he just doesn't sound like Anders to me. Yet.

I had always wanted Anders and Cullen, both voiced by Greg Ellis, to run into each other. Would have made a really weird scene. And probably pretty funny and confusing, lol.

www.youtube.com/watch

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

That looks like an Orbital Strike from lots of RTS games I have played.

Who knew Anders had a death star?

It's an Advent purge vessel. Anders is clearly a servant of the Unity. :wub::wub:

Actually, I think Kirkwall is that way because the Advent used mass hysteria on it.

I do too. And Anders already has the bluey glowey eye thingy going on too. He didn't get rid of Ser Pounce a Lot, The Pounce is on the Revelation battle cruiser in orbit, slamming is little paw on the provoke hysteria button, cleansing the world of heathens and preparing the way for the Unity.