57020 réponses à ce sujet

[Heidenreich]

Personally, I'm of a mind to think that the golden city, now the blackened city, in the fade, is actually arlathan. That "being sunk into the ground" was something the tevinters told the world after the elves disapeared, because they couldn't explain what happened.

This then would have created then divide between worlds, and magic on the whole would have been lost to those not already born with it, (et a la how the elves say all elves used to be born with magic, and now there are only a grand handfull every year etc)

"So, where did the city go..."

"(****) Well ser, It uh, you see.."

"HE SUNK IT"

"wait, he what?"

"He used his control of earth magic, and the blood of 5 hundred slaves, and SUNK IT. It was so much blood power that it broke the world, and now there's two!"

"I... yea, I did that."

"A shame really, you'll have to go about trying to fix that divide, but.... no matter. Good job son." *general walks away*

"....wtf man why did you tell him that!"

"dude did you want me to tell him that the elves did some freaky **** and their whole city disapeared on your watch?"

"good point"




fast forward a thousand years, and that's the official story told to the magisters who Dumat (in all his trolololing ways) sent to "take over the golden city of the maker"... but when they get there, they find it black and corrupt from the sheer act they had alone committed (the breaking of the world, not the 'corrupting of the makers house'.)

They come back, bringing said corruption with them, and... Darkspawn!



Do you see what kind of madness goes on in my head at 3am?



Also? Ffffff top:

Hawke!Creep

by whipyohair

Modifié par Heidenreich, 01 septembre 2011 - 07:46 .

[esper]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

phaonica wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

yet someone on another thread brought up the possibility that the Tevinter might have wiped out Arlathan because they were doing something the Tevinter saw as fundementally dangerous or inherently threatening.

I had not found the lost elven culture to be that interesting until this theory was proposed. That and the suggestion that Tevinter may have learned magic (including blood magic) from the elves.

Other than the accusation that Tevinter used blood magic to destroy Arlathan, I wasn't quite sure if there was any other reason for the Dalish to be against blood magic.

Whatever the case, Dalish history had not really interested me until this idea came up.

yeah, me too. the whole idea that, instead of the usual, steryeotypical poor glorious elven societies being corrupted by greedy humans, that ancient elven society held its own share of depravity and less than noble acts or systems that sustained it. or that the elves were possibly tampering with things that were incredibly dangerous, risky, ad likely the source of many problems still sometimes encountered in current Thedas.

Now here's a really far out theory. Not an incredibly strong one, but an interesting one nonetheless. What if the eluvians have something to do with time, or the manipulation of time? I don't know why, but one impression of many that I got with the eluvian Morrigan was going through was that it had some sort of power warping time. Morrigan saying she was going to a place beyond Thedas or the fade. Plus the talk of elven immortality/elves not aging the same way they do now, made me wonder if ancient elves had developed some sort of chrono manipulation knowledge. Maybe the possibility of the elves of Arlathan possibly getting ready to do something to f*ck with the sanctity of the space-time continum was enough added incentive for the Tevinter to wipe them out so.

Of course, as I said, it's a far out theory, but one I thought I'd share, as maybe demonstrating the possibility that the ancient elves had gotten into some pretty freaky, dangerous shyte certainly being far more interesting to discover than the usual innocent victimhood trope.

And of course, I'm a nerd who often has difficulty understanding the divisions placed between sci-fi and fantasy, lol.:lol:

As A fellow nerd I would like to say that both is awesome genre.
I like the idea that the Elves did something terrible and the theory actually makes a lot of sense. I actually really hopes it proves to be true because it would be an awesome plot twist.

[esper]

Heidenreich wrote...

Personally, I'm of a mind to think that the golden city, now the blackened city, in the fade, is actually arlathan. That "being sunk into the ground" was something the tevinters told the world after the elves disapeared, because they couldn't explain what happened.

This then would have created then divide between worlds, and magic on the whole would have been lost to those not already born with it, (et a la how the elves say all elves used to be born with magic, and now there are only a grand handfull every year etc)

"So, where did the city go..."

"(****) Well ser, It uh, you see.."

"HE SUNK IT"

"wait, he what?"

"He used his control of earth magic, and the blood of 5 hundred slaves, and SUNK IT. It was so much blood power that it broke the world, and now there's two!"

"I... yea, I did that."

"A shame really, you'll have to go about trying to fix that divide, but.... no matter. Good job son." *general walks away*

"....wtf man why did you tell him that!"

"dude did you want me to tell him that the elves did some freaky **** and their whole city disapeared on your watch?"

"good point"




fast forward a thousand years, and that's the official story told to the magisters who Dumat (in all his trolololing ways) sent to "take over the golden city of the maker"... but when they get there, they find it black and corrupt from the sheer act they had alone committed (the breaking of the world, not the 'corrupting of the makers house'.)

They come back, bringing said corruption with them, and... Darkspawn!



Do you see what kind of madness goes on in my head at 3am?

I still don't think that the blight comes from the black city I think it comes from some kind of freakish lyruim.

For the other part of your theory how do you explain that unlike most fantasy games more people with magic seems to be born in the world? That the Fade and Thedas is merging?... Freakish thought.

[Heidenreich]

Yes, actually. Sandel in DA2 says as much, I believe.. or something like it. I think I remember hearing it SOMEWHERE else too.... that at one point mages were almost non-exsistant (like, 1 in 100,000) even in Tevinter, and as the years have progressed,especially within the confines of the Dragon Age itself even, there seem to be more and more mages born every year.

The theory is that the two worlds are starting to merge again.

as for the darkspawn corruption coming out of the back city.. well Coriphius (and I butchered the hell out of that) tells us pretty much this. "It was black, corrupt! It was supposed to be Golden! It was supposed to be ours!"

Modifié par Heidenreich, 01 septembre 2011 - 07:52 .

[esper]

Not necessarily. No one says that Cory was the first. Just that he is one of the awakened darkspawn.
I still think that the dwarves had a much more believeable explanation with the gradual appearing more darkspawn.
Both what is both in the Fade and in the Deep Roads?
Lyrium - I really think that stuff is dangerous. And we don't really no what it is.

[Heidenreich]

esper wrote...

Not necessarily. No one says that Cory was the first. Just that he is one of the awakened darkspawn.
I still think that the dwarves had a much more believeable explanation with the gradual appearing more darkspawn.
Both what is both in the Fade and in the Deep Roads?
Lyrium - I really think that stuff is dangerous. And we don't really no what it is.

No its litterally said he was one of the first magisters, aka, the magisters who broke into the heavens. He tells you as much. He's not "An awakened darkspawn", he's a Magister. He's "More then human, more then darkspawn". He tells you that Dumat sent them to take the golden light of the makers city, and when they got there it was black and corrupt. The question isn't who or what he is. The question is was the city corrupt before they got there, or did it turn such because of them?

In fact, the folks on the DA dev team are basically giving a reason as to -why- Kirkwall is so utterly ****ed up when it comes to its mages and even its templars. Because there's an original magister locked up in the ground near-by. Which begs to lend, on top of structual design and the sheer thinness of the veil, that the act itself was performed IN Kirkwall. Lets also not forget the proximity to Sundermount, where the elves and the humans faught with ever sort of magic available to them.

As for Lyrium -- side effect from the world breaking into two parts, totally. They haven't yet told us, and red lyrium is badness to the max (personally I believe its Coryphius-corruption, but.. that's a stretch.)

[esper]

Heidenreich wrote...

esper wrote...

Not necessarily. No one says that Cory was the first. Just that he is one of the awakened darkspawn.
I still think that the dwarves had a much more believeable explanation with the gradual appearing more darkspawn.
Both what is both in the Fade and in the Deep Roads?
Lyrium - I really think that stuff is dangerous. And we don't really no what it is.

No its litterally said he was one of the first magisters, aka, the magisters who broke into the heavens. He tells you as much. He's not "An awakened darkspawn", he's a Magister. He's "More then human, more then darkspawn". He tells you that Dumat sent them to take the golden light of the makers city, and when they got there it was black and corrupt. The question isn't who or what he is. The question is was the city corrupt before they got there, or did it turn such because of them?

In fact, the folks on the DA dev team are basically giving a reason as to -why- Kirkwall is so utterly ****ed up when it comes to its mages and even its templars. Because there's an original magister locked up in the ground near-by. Which begs to lend, on top of structual design and the sheer thinness of the veil, that the act itself was performed IN Kirkwall. Lets also not forget the proximity to Sundermount, where the elves and the humans faught with ever sort of magic available to them.

As for Lyrium -- side effect from the world breaking into two parts, totally. They haven't yet told us, and red lyrium is badness to the max (personally I believe its Coryphius-corruption, but.. that's a stretch.)

And I say that the magisters created the awakened darkspawn by being the first of them (Architecht) and there is still nothing (but the chantry) that says that the magisters were the first darkspawn, I don't buy it.
In fact why did dumant send them to the golden city in the first place - Time for crazy theory myself:

Why do we assume that Dumat (if it was his idea) send the magisters to the Golden City in order to - excuse my langue - screw them over? It seems like a stupid thing do to devout followers.
If the old god lived in the Deep Road they might have encountered the beginning darkspawn race just like the dwarves. I assume that the old god lived deeper underground than the dwarves so they must have met them before. Dumat might had tried to purposely create a thinking race amongst the darkspawn in order for one of them to do exactly what the architecht did - stop the darkspawn from seeking out old gods.
We don't really know what old gods is either expect that it apperently have dragon form.

[Heidenreich]

I.. *rubs her temples*

The game, itself, tells you that Coryphius is "An Original Magister". If David Gaider and Mike Laidlaw didn't want us to believe Coryphius is "An Original Magister", then they would not have told us that he is one. At all.

Just like they never actually tell you if The Architect is or not, because they don't yet want us to know that answer. The signs are all there, but they never actually say it.

But, in Legacy, they actually say it. Word for word. More then once. Coryphus himself calls himself a Magister, tells us that Dumat sent "Them" to get the golden city, and that when they got there it was black and corrupted.

The Architect, who claims to have no knowledge of his time before being a darkspawn, calls himself an "Awakened Darkspawn". Coryphius, who has no knowledge of time beyond when he was imprisoned, calls himself a Magister.

He tells us Dumat sent them into the golden city. No he doesn't tell us why. The Dragon god could have just been Angry at the Maker for imprisoning him and asked his Deciples to go take the power to free him. He probably didn't know any more then anyone else that the act would corrupt the city.

If there's even a Maker in the first place, and not just the Elven Fan'Harel, who's goal in life is to troll the **** out of everyone. In which case, Fan'Harel could have been like "yo look, dragons.. I left my back door open. Woops. *troooolfase*" and Dumat could have simply taken the queue and sent in his men, only to doom them.

Why? Because Fan'Harel likes to troll people. But again, -that- particular bit of crazy is my mind-canon and not fact at all ;p


The stuff about Coryphius though, is in game canon. Writen by the writers and approved by the lead design. He's a Magister.

[esper]

I have never denied that Cory is an orginal magister - I have denied that the magisters were the first darkspawn. There is a difference. A huge difference.

[AndreaDraco]

Sialater wrote...


by Maoileoin

Very good! It seems like a screen-shot from an animated movie about Anders! Wonderful job!

[DragonRacer in Mourning]

I really, really want to know what in the world's going on.

About everything.

Period.

There's so much stuff out there... little threads not fully explained... like an answer is tantilizingly out there, but my mortal mind hasn't the ability to comprehend it (that... may also explain why I lean towards playing rogues/warriors; even in a fantasy setting, I don't feel brain-powered enough for magey-type activities).

Keeper Marethari says that once all elves had magic. And Sandal's freaky but not-often-triggered prophecy about all the magic coming back one day.

Then, again, while playing "Night Terrors" last night, Keeper Marethari describes the Beyond/Fade/spirit world as the heart of Thedas, while the mortal world is its strong arm.

I had honestly not really caught that remark of hers before until last night. What... what does that mean? It feels like there are implications there, but I can't figure them. I actually, honestly wish I could sit down and have a for realz talk with Anders/Justice. Seriously.

Also, would really like to know more about spirits in general. We get lots of codex entries about demons, often repeating the same dang thing (Rage, Hunger, Sloth, Desire, and Pride demons all do this-and-this-and-this...). And then you get a little footnote about, "Oh, and there are spirits that embrace our better traits, like Justice, Compassion, Valor, and Faith." And that's all you get. The whole depth of knowledge about the more benevolent-appearing spirits is that they generally avoid interfering with the mortal world (other than we have GLARING examples counter to this... I'm looking at YOU, Anders and Wynne). They say that spirit healers actually call upon spirits to aid them in healing. But no real detail is given. And the Wiki seems to indicate that Wynne's Faith spirit guarded her (from within the Fade) her whole life, then ASSUMED DIRECT CONTROL to save her life.

What is going on here? There's all these thoughts running through my head. Crawling around like little bugs. And it seems like they should all fit together somehow, but I am just failing miserably at it.

Any thoughts or conjectures?

Also, on a completely random note, I had an Anders dream last night. For some reason, he was here in our plane of existence bumming around my house. I woke up in the middle of the night and padded into the kitchen to grab a glass of water and there was Anders -- with those Justice blue swirly eyes -- up at, like, 3am watching old reruns of "Law & Order". That whole "spirits never sleep" thing, I guess. I LOL'ed. Justice would TOTALLY watch that show.

[Heidenreich]

esper wrote...

I have never denied that Cory is an orginal magister - I have denied that the magisters were the first darkspawn. There is a difference. A huge difference.

Really, its what I even get for posting at 4am.

You're not wrong, they aren't the first darkspawn. I never said they were. I said they brought the taint from the black city, which we know now to be true, and it created the first darkspawn ;p

unfortunately what you are saying is that darkspawn were created from lyrium and the dwarves. Where upon I get to say "no" and "well, at least not wholly, because we know now that the golden city magister story is true", and "There are at least two, if not one completely solid, examples of Magisters = Darkspawn!"


<3

[esper]

Heidenreich wrote...

esper wrote...

I have never denied that Cory is an orginal magister - I have denied that the magisters were the first darkspawn. There is a difference. A huge difference.

Really, its what I even get for posting at 4am.

You're not wrong, they aren't the first darkspawn. I never said they were. I said they brought the taint from the black city, which we know now to be true, and it created the first darkspawn ;p

unfortunately what you are saying is that darkspawn were created from lyrium and the dwarves. Where upon I get to say "no" and "well, at least not wholly, because we know now that the golden city magister story is true", and "There are at least two, if not one completely solid, examples of Magisters = Darkspawn!"


<3

I disagree. We don't know that to be true. Cory (I can't spell his name) acutally seems to have gone directly from black city to prison, juding from what he said. Which makes me wonder how the wardens tracked him down in the first place.
I do think that all five magister became darkspawn, or perhaps they are really just powerfull ghouls - now I think about it. They certainly didn't lose their intelligence, but something in the city clearly tainted them.

However the dwarves said that the darkspawn appeared from somewhere in the Deep Roads and they were genlocks not magisters. I personally think the shaperates would have notice powerfull magicwielding, spreading a weird disease monsters.

So far we know of two places which there are taint. The Black City and the Deep Roads. And we have yet to see that some kind of connection or highway between the two places exits.
 
Lyrium is just my own theory so far because it is the only thing that we know but Deep Roads and Fade have. Plus nobody knows what lyrium really is.

[Heidenreich]

From what I gathered, he was just disoriented, probably captured after the first blight at some point, and thus has been asleep for a very long time. No one is ever 100% when they first wake up ;p

That being said, logic dictates that after they came back corrupted, they sought out Dumat, in order to find out wtf went wrong. When they found him (which meant they had to dig, and encounter servents/people/creating the darkspawn, which created more darkspawn, which.. you see where I'm going with this ;p

When they found him finally, they corrupted him as well. Thus, blight. It didn't have to be an instantaneous thing. It probably took at least a hundred years or more, and in that time more and more darkspawn were being created (birthed via broodmothers) and eventually would have swarmed their way out into dwarven lands from where they were digging, appearing to have come from nowhere at all. The darkspawn were genlocks, because logically at some point mining-groups of dwarves and builders looking to expand etc would have come in contact with them. Thus, beyond the servants (elves and humans) that may have been corrupted when the magisters came back through the fade with the corruption, most darkspawn would be genlocks.

Also, the fade does not have Lyrium. We see Lyrium in DA:O in the fade because of game play mechanics, but even Justice says that what the fade has is just a recreated image of what mortals minds lend.

That being said, its not a bad theory. Its just one I can poke holes into thanks to some of the new information we've been given.

[esper]

Heidenreich wrote...

From what I gathered, he was just disoriented, probably captured after the first blight at some point, and thus has been asleep for a very long time. No one is ever 100% when they first wake up ;p

That being said, logic dictates that after they came back corrupted, they sought out Dumat, in order to find out wtf went wrong. When they found him (which meant they had to dig, and encounter servents/people/creating the darkspawn, which created more darkspawn, which.. you see where I'm going with this ;p

When they found him finally, they corrupted him as well. Thus, blight. It didn't have to be an instantaneous thing. It probably took at least a hundred years or more, and in that time more and more darkspawn were being created (birthed via broodmothers) and eventually would have swarmed their way out into dwarven lands from where they were digging, appearing to have come from nowhere at all. The darkspawn were genlocks, because logically at some point mining-groups of dwarves and builders looking to expand etc would have come in contact with them. Thus, beyond the servants (elves and humans) that may have been corrupted when the magisters came back through the fade with the corruption, most darkspawn would be genlocks.

Also, the fade does not have Lyrium. We see Lyrium in DA:O in the fade because of game play mechanics, but even Justice says that what the fade has is just a recreated image of what mortals minds lend.

That being said, its not a bad theory. Its just one I can poke holes into thanks to some of the new information we've been given.

The fade has lyrium. It saved my wardens ass many time in da:o. (Bloody Fade quest). The chantry think that lyrium is the water of the Fade. Now I don't believe that the chantry is right, but they wouldn't have gotten that idea unless some mages had reported to come across it in the fade.
Cory clearly didn't know what had happened to Dumat so he never reached him. and I still think that the dwarves would have noticed five (for some reason I have the number fives) monsters of Cory's and the Architechts strength, because honestly they are not sublte. 

[Heidenreich]

esper wrote...



The fade has lyrium. It saved my wardens ass many time in da:o. (Bloody Fade quest)

No, it doesn't. It's been confirmed by both the writers, and an in-game reference (made by Justice, in Awakening). The Lyrium in the fade is a game play mechanic. There is no real Lyrium in the fade. Justice himself says, "The Lyrium you see in the fade is but a pale shadow, created to mimic the real thing." or some such simmilar, when you give him the Lyrium ring. I tried to find the quote, but apparently its non-existant on the Wiki. In any case, I'm sure someone in thread can confirm this.. and if not I can always go back and replay the scene from one of my 4 playthroughs and get the exact quote. I'm just being lazy. ;p

Thus, no actual Lyrium in the fade. Only "pretendy look alike" lyrium.

I promise,  I'll stop arguing with you at some point today<3

Modifié par Heidenreich, 01 septembre 2011 - 03:26 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

*licks Heidenreich and tries to think of ways to argue with her*

[Heidenreich]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

*licks Heidenreich and tries to think of ways to argue with her*

*shifty eyes, slings KoP over her shoulder and carries him off*

[KnightofPhoenix]

Heidenreich wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

*licks Heidenreich and tries to think of ways to argue with her*

*shifty eyes, slings KoP over her shoulder and carries him off*

Can't I carry you for once? It's embarassing.

[Sialater]

Anna Hawke killed Anders last night.

I kinda hate her right now.

[Heidenreich]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Heidenreich wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

*licks Heidenreich and tries to think of ways to argue with her*

*shifty eyes, slings KoP over her shoulder and carries him off*

Can't I carry you for once? It's embarassing.

I guess

Sialater wrote...

Anna Hawke killed Anders last night.

I kinda hate her right now.

I'm right there with you, Sia. Angelica just did the same thing about an hour ago.

[Sialater]

That had better one hot Fenris kiss at the end, is all I'm saying.

Cause that death scene sucked. Hard.

[Heidenreich]

I actually killed him with my romanced Hawke, so it was way worse @_@.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Heidenreich wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Heidenreich wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

*licks Heidenreich and tries to think of ways to argue with her*

*shifty eyes, slings KoP over her shoulder and carries him off*

Can't I carry you for once? It's embarassing.

I guess

*carries you off to somewhere, still thinking of ways to argue*

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Hur dur I can't count.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 01 septembre 2011 - 04:47 .