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[Lady Jess]

HolyJellyfish wrote...

leggywillow wrote...

Lady Jess wrote...

In my mind when Hawke and Anders left, they headed straight for Tevinter. There they'd be safe from the chantry for a bit at least, maybe find a way to gget Justice out of there, and if not..hide until what must be done must be done, but she'll be damned if anyone but HER is going to do it. Anders already has a shortened lifespan, by then he has what...15 years, 20 at the most? I mean whats the point of screaming for his death? He already has a death sentence in his blood.

This, exactly, is what my Hawke and Anders are doing (until Bioware thwarts my plans, anyway).

I have a hard time imagining that Anders would be mentally healthy in Tevinter. Justice would be likely pissed at seeing the injustice of elf-slaves as he did Mages - though Anders would have a less personal investment.

I am assuming not ALL of Tevinter is big and populated, I wouldn't let Justice anywhere NEAR a populated area, I was thinking a nice little farm out in south central nowhere where the only injustice that may occur is stepping in a cow-pie.

[BlastedLands]

Astranagant wrote...



The issue is that mages can be a serious danger to others even unintentionally, like with Feynriel. He's got demons ravenously clawing at the edges of his sleeping mind. Every mage is a foothold into the mortal world for utterly evil entities which are desperate to enter it.

Magic is a curse for those mages who aren't bad people, but it's a blessing for those who would welcome such monstrosities in order to do more harm.

maybe it doesn't have to be like this.

And I'm not saying all mages should be punished for one's actions, I'm saying that regardless of intent they're a danger, just look at the case of Connor in DAO. Those magic users are also victims, but the greater good has to be weighed against the personal freedom of a few individuals.

i like to believe that fear plays a big role in those stories. who knows how this people would act/develop when there wasn't the constant fear of being caught, if they could live through a normal childhood and learn morals like "normal" people do? maybe more or even the majority of them was able to use their powers for the good thing or simply live with it?
constantly being told that you're special can screw with your mind big time.

Nobody in the real world would argue that a clinically insane person who poses a severe danger to the community through no choice or fault of their own should be set loose unsupervised.

see above.


[sorry if i babble or don't make much sense, i had a few beers, i can't quite estimate what i do here:lol:]

[mellifera]

I thought the point on blood magic was that for many it was an act of desperation borne from a sense of persecution and hopelessness over their lot. Not saying this is universally true, as some do just want power, but that resentment and fear built up over years make a person more susceptible to taking any means available to them, as questionable and harmful as those means are.

[Raiil]

darkrose wrote...

Valentia X wrote...
Vengeance can, and has been, justified. Or is Cousland evil for wanting to end the life of the man who destroyed her family? Is the City Elf wrong for wanting to avenge a raped cousin?

Isn't that the point though? Apply anger, resentment, and bitterness to the ideal of justice, shake with a dash of oppression, and you get a highly volitile concoction that's liable to go off at any moment and take out innocent bystanders. The Tabris origin is actually a perfect example. My Tabris always kills Vaughan, including going back and replaying so I can get the head shot. And if there's anyone in the game who deserves his fate, it's Vaughan. (which can make it weird to play male!Hawke, let me tell you)

But at the end of the origin story, what's changed? Shianni's still been raped. Nola and Nelaros are still dead. And the Tabris Warden gets to walk away. During the next months, she'll become the biggest BAMF in Ferelden. People who aren't terrified of her will often want to get in her pants. She's a dragonslayer, demon-hunter, and kingmaker. 

Meanwhile, as a direct result of her actions, the boot's coming down even harder than before on her people. There's a purge, and plague, and slavers, and it's hard to blame the elves who point their fingers at the one who lit the fuse and then ran off. 

I'm still very far from the end game (maybe if I stopped restarting so often...) and I honestly don't know what my mage Hawke is going to do. I can see him believing that Anders will have to pay, but whether that's living with what he's done or dying for it....I'll have to see. Ironically, being spoiled has made me more interested in getting to the end, so I can see how it all plays out.

My point with the Origins heroes was more or less that no one was crying into the pudding about how much better it would have been if Cousland had dragged Howe in front of a judge (or whatever passes for one), or if Vaughn had been put on trial for his actions. I didn't see a lot of people advocating leniancy, mercy, or even really a form of justice for Bhelen for the dwarves who wanted to punch him in the throat repeatedly, either. What Anders is reacting to is a large-scale version of Howe destroying your family or Vaughn raping your cousin. I'm not going to say what he did was morally ethical, but it does boggle a little where everyone was cool with cutting down every person in your way to get Anora or letting Vaughn taste cold steel, but Anders had absolutely no reason to do what he did. Bombing an old lady? Not cool, nice, or moral at all. But when you have a system to set up to oppress you- when mages are treated like ticking time bombs, elves are treated like idiotic meatbags there only for your pleasure, casteless treated like the gum on the bottom of your shoe- how would you react is the system in place is there to cut you down without a trial?

[leggywillow]

Lady Jess wrote...

HolyJellyfish wrote...

I have a hard time imagining that Anders would be mentally healthy in Tevinter. Justice would be likely pissed at seeing the injustice of elf-slaves as he did Mages - though Anders would have a less personal investment.

I am assuming not ALL of Tevinter is big and populated, I wouldn't let Justice anywhere NEAR a populated area, I was thinking a nice little farm out in south central nowhere where the only injustice that may occur is stepping in a cow-pie.

::snerk::  That farm wouldn't be very successful.  I can just imagine Hawke writing to Varric: Tried a farm.  Didn't work.  Anders kept slaughtering the cows for the "foul stains of injustice" he kept getting on his boots"

[HolyJellyfish]

Astranagant wrote...

I never got the feeling that Anders thought that should be the case. His zealotry for absolute freedom for mages never struck me as having limits. He is willing to (and does) murder countless innocents to spark a bloody war between Templars and Mages, one in which countless innocent magi would be killed. He wants to remove the Chantry's control, and never offers any kind of suggestion that ordinary people should be protected from malicious mages.

That's untrue. Anders makes many comments about how he loathes blood magic and demons (even if he himself has one in his head). He looks down upon mages who use such tactics, unless it is for their own survival and they have no means to escape. I remember racking up MANY rivalry points for releasing bloodmages and dealing with demons if Anders was in my party. He dislikes the abuse of power in any fashion.

He justifies his killing of innocents by suggesting he is doing it for a greater good. To protect many many MANY more lives from being abused, enslaved, and ruined by the infrastructure of the circle. Anders has said many times that he feels the only reason blood magic and demon dealings have been so prevalent in kirkwall is because the Mages simply have nothing else to turn to or have gone mad because of the limitations around them. He accepts he is a murderer, but believes it is for the benefit of the greater good - regardless of whether Hawke sides with Templars or Mages. A larger war is being sparked, and he seeks to create a massive revolution that would (hopefully) culminate in the freedom of mages and the acceptance by ordinary people, with protections for both charges.

And I'm not saying they should be imprisoned and sexually abused by Templars and made Tranquil (after all, my original beef was that he got Bethany a death sentence from the Templars.) Just that Anders never shows any real concern for the fact that mages can and do cause vastly more harm than ordinary people are capable of. Sure, he gets a niggling sense of disapproval when someone uses blood magic, but he seems to view it as simply a lifestyle choice that  should be an open option for all mages, regardless of the incomprehensible suffering it will cause to innocent people. That's what's so abhorrent about him for me.

He treats blood mages, demon dealings, and evil mages with the same disdain as he does Templars. They aren't helping his cause.

He doesn't like blood magic. At all. Just look at the quotes between him and Merrill. They are constantly disagreeing.

Or rather, it's what's so abhorrent about the Hawkes who can gloss over such a vile philosophy for the sake of romantic love. A good person who's willing to stand by and allow unspeakable acts of cruelty is worse to me than the evil person who commits the acts. I think this applies to Anders.

Again. I racked up SO many rivalry points by saving evil mages it wasn't funny. The only time Anders was unhappy with my choices is if I turned them over to the templars. He seemed satisfied if I killed them myself.

[leggywillow]

Aww... more squee-ful dialogue between Fenris and Anders for my Hawke who slept with both of them:

Fenris: You... are living with Hawke now?
Anders: What's it to you?
Fenris: Be good to her.  Break her heart, and I will kill you.

D'awww.

[Raiil]

leggywillow wrote...

Aww... more squee-ful dialogue between Fenris and Anders for my Hawke who slept with both of them:

Fenris: You... are living with Hawke now?
Anders: What's it to you?
Fenris: Be good to her.  Break her heart, and I will kill you.

D'awww.

...I am totally going to get them both next playthrough. And now I'm curious if the other LI's have anything to say about it.

[Lady Jess]

yukidama wrote...

I thought the point on blood magic was that for many it was an act of desperation borne from a sense of persecution and hopelessness over their lot. Not saying this is universally true, as some do just want power, but that resentment and fear built up over years make a person more susceptible to taking any means available to them, as questionable and harmful as those means are.

This is  what I thought too. And what Anders repeats frequently as well.  In Ostagar the circle was so oppressed they couldn't even be allowed even allowed to send a signal.  Gregoir would only allow SEVEN mages to even help in the battle. They were so desperate for some freedom how many followed Uldred? Isolde was so desperate to not "lose her son" she hired  an apostate to teach him. It didn't seem as if she would miss him too much between visits, it seemed more like never see him again. In fact, an Amell or Surana doesn't even KNOW their parents.

I think the demons that offer it FEEd on the fear and lonliness and desperation. If you remove that, you remove the feast leaving only the power hungry to attract them.

Modifié par Lady Jess, 13 mars 2011 - 01:50 .

[EnchantedEyes1]

leggywillow wrote...

Aww... more squee-ful dialogue between Fenris and Anders for my Hawke who slept with both of them:

Fenris: You... are living with Hawke now?
Anders: What's it to you?
Fenris: Be good to her.  Break her heart, and I will kill you.

D'awww.

You can do that?!  Was it tricky or pretty easy to do?

[leggywillow]

EnchantedEyes1 wrote...

leggywillow wrote...

Aww... more squee-ful dialogue between Fenris and Anders for my Hawke who slept with both of them:

Fenris: You... are living with Hawke now?
Anders: What's it to you?
Fenris: Be good to her.  Break her heart, and I will kill you.

D'awww.

You can do that?!  Was it tricky or pretty easy to do?

Quite easy, actually.  It was almost an accident.  I made a very militant pro-mage Hawke to rival-mance Fenris.  If you're pro-mage and bring Anders and Fenris everywhere with you, you rack up the respective friendship and rival points very quickly.  She was also a little hussy, taking every single flirt line with everyone she met.  Ended up sleeping with Isabela, too.  ::snerk::

In Act 2, just do all of Fenris's quests first.  He breaks up with Hawke after the romance scene (although they kiss and make up in Act 3, I believe).  Then feel free to pursue Anders.  Boom, piece of cake!

[Aggie Punbot]

Oh, I am adoring the Anders/Fenris romance dialogue. Thanks so much for posting it, leggywillow! Keep 'em coming if there's more (please). :-)

[Souris]

Valentia X wrote...

leggywillow wrote...

Aww... more squee-ful dialogue between Fenris and Anders for my Hawke who slept with both of them:

Fenris: You... are living with Hawke now?
Anders: What's it to you?
Fenris: Be good to her.  Break her heart, and I will kill you.

D'awww.

...I am totally going to get them both next playthrough. And now I'm curious if the other LI's have anything to say about it.

That, and I wonder if it has any effect at all on the ending. Currrioous D:

[EnchantedEyes1]

leggywillow wrote...

EnchantedEyes1 wrote...

leggywillow wrote...

Aww... more squee-ful dialogue between Fenris and Anders for my Hawke who slept with both of them:

Fenris: You... are living with Hawke now?
Anders: What's it to you?
Fenris: Be good to her.  Break her heart, and I will kill you.

D'awww.

You can do that?!  Was it tricky or pretty easy to do?

Quite easy, actually.  It was almost an accident.  I made a very militant pro-mage Hawke to rival-mance Fenris.  If you're pro-mage and bring Anders and Fenris everywhere with you, you rack up the respective friendship and rival points very quickly.  She was also a little hussy, taking every single flirt line with everyone she met.  Ended up sleeping with Isabela, too.  ::snerk::

In Act 2, just do all of Fenris's quests first.  He breaks up with Hawke after the romance scene (although they kiss and make up in Act 3, I believe).  Then feel free to pursue Anders.  Boom, piece of cake!

Awesome, thanks! 

[Sable Rhapsody]

Was anyone else convinced that there was going to be no happy ending to Anders' romance?

I was certain it was all going to end horribly because Anders has some romance dialogue reminicent of Morrigan's in the first game--basically THIS IS A BAD IDEA written all over it. And we all remember how well Morrigan turned out before DLC. I was pleasantly surprised when I got the non-crappy ending with him.

[mellifera]

Man, remember the good old days when cannibalism arguments were the biggest issue? Lol. Looking through my screenshot folder I just get sad. Dammit.


(I didn't play beardy Hawke, but used him on a reload to see something. The Black Emporium is evil, I am tempted to swap heads all the time)

[StellaSmooth]

Souris wrote...

StellaSmooth wrote...

Not sure that this is the right place to post this, but I shall do so anyway. I have a tendency to give each character a song and in my playthrough I was absolutely pro-freedom for mages just like Anders. The song that I picked for him was appropriate to the extreme I think. Hurricane by 30 Seconds to Mars.

Tell me would you kill to save a life?
Tell me would you kill to prove you're right?
Crash, crash, burn...
Let it all burn.
This hurricane's chasing us all underground.

No matter how many deaths that I die, I will never forget.
No matter how many lies that I live, I will never regret.
There is a fire inside that has started a riot about to explode into flames.
Where is your God?
Where is your God?
Where is your God?

The only thing I keep thinking when I hear the song now is Anders forcing a revolution through a bit of terrorism. (probably the understatement of the year, I know.) Anyone else got a good song for Anders? Just wondering, I can't be the only person on the planet that thinks in music. hehe.

Anyhow, 's to all and sorry if this was the wrong place to put something like this.

Oh man, that song, and End Credits by Chase and Status



I don't know if it's the song, or the movie it's from, but it suits Anders SO well, in my opinion.

OOOH, I love it!!  

I've started my second playthrough on a rogue...I'm desperately trying to avoid Anders this time. I literally did the quest to get him then left him standing in the clinc. Of course, my resolve is crumbling. (and though I ABSOLUTELY loved the shirtless Anders that SO didn't help!!!) I just want to punch Fenris in the tattoo and go running back to my kitten terrorist!

[Trophonius]

MsKehoe wrote...

I'm curious. Did anyone else romance Anders with an m!Hawke? I feel like the only one here. XD

I haven't finished the game yet, but my m!Hawke and Anders are in a relationship. It's actually quite a nice and poignant thing they have going. Though, Gamlen says some awkward things about their relationship; he will say something like, "I heard that the apostate boy moved in with you. No need to tell me who the 'girl' in the relationship is" Nonetheless, it's always amusing when characters talk about it. For example, Varric will ask Anders if he got down on one knee (if you moved in together) and Merrill will notice how Anders looks happier with m!Hawke.

[panamakira]

So I'm really silly like this but I hold off on getting Seb because I wanted to see whether he's worth the price but if I have to kill Anders for the sake of his romance I don't think I can do it so I'm not even gonna bother getting him.

And y'all know anyway why although I completely disagree with Anders I will probably spare him everytime. My Lady Hawke can see he's hardly in control but lost himself even more to Justice. My rogue Hawke is just in denial but I know for sure before Anders commits something like that again, I would probably end it for him before he became a monster, if he didn't already.

I feel like in DA2 the bomb was set up and the clock continues to tick all throughout the game before your very eyes and you can't stop it, and the bomb explodes (literally) and you don't see the end of the explosion because the game end. That bugs me.

It's like not matter what side you choose, it gives you the feeling of.....is this.......good....?

[Souris]

Wee! New Fenris vs Anders banter (and I'm not even romancing Anders).

Anders: I can't imagine what Hawke sees in you.
Fenris: It is done, leave it be.
Anders: Well good, I always knew she had some sense.
Fenris: Do not make light of this, leaving was the hardest thing I've ever done.

[Eveangaline]

Uhm, about to start my second playthrough, and I have to ask, is it possible to have him not do that thing he did? I was able to stop Merril from trying to ask the demon for help by just never finishing that sidequest with her, is the same possible with Anders?

[Jean]

Eveangaline wrote...

Uhm, about to start my second playthrough, and I have to ask, is it possible to have him not do that thing he did? I was able to stop Merril from trying to ask the demon for help by just never finishing that sidequest with her, is the same possible with Anders?

No.

He is the cataclyst for the change Morrigan and Flemeth warned you about. His fate will always depend on you after the fact.

[Aggie Punbot]

Souris wrote...

Wee! New Fenris vs Anders banter (and I'm not even romancing Anders).

Anders: I can't imagine what Hawke sees in you.
Fenris: It is done, leave it be.
Anders: Well good, I always knew she had some sense.
Fenris: Do not make light of this, leaving was the hardest thing I've ever done.

Thanks for posting this! <3<3

[Jean]

Anders is clearly Hawkesexual.

[Kim Shepard]

Just wondering, is there dialogue that would let my Hawke say she supports what he did to the Chantry? I haven't seen any videos of it, but that might just be because most Hawkes don't approve. xD

Also, those lines between romanced Anders and Fenris are great. Keep them coming!

StellaSmooth wrote...

Anyone else got a good song for Anders?

Well, I was listening to "Leave It Alone" by Disturbed yesterday, and it made me think of Anders and Justice. It's kind of funny, because that song already reminds me of one of my Shepards.

leggywillow wrote...

I did giggle a bit at the "Your better half doesn't like me" line.  Justice, why won't you be the lovably grumpy third wheel in their charming sitcom relationship?  Why must you be so angsty instead?

If only it were possible. xD I wonder how Justice would react if my FemHawke tried to give him a quick kiss right after he came out and killed some templar. I think Isabella would approve.

SmokePants wrote...

He also backed me into a corner one time with forcing me to reply with either a romance or non-romance option. My Hawke is not gay, but was trying to be friends and if I turned him down, the meter goes toward rival and the conversation ends abruptly. Fenris' homosexuality was handled far better and I never got trapped with him. Though, I don't see why romance has to affect friendship/rivalry at all.

As long as Anders accepts the turn-down and doesn't have any more romance dialogue with your Hawke, then it isn't really a trap. It's possible to make up for the rivalry points later if your Hawke normally goes the friendship route with him. In my opinion, the heart and broken heart icons is a welcome addition to the system. It should completely eliminate similar problems to the one I had in ME1 with Liara not taking "I'm not interested" for an answer and all three options in the next conversation saying yes. >_>