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[Sarah1281]

Ryzaki wrote...

Oh look the divide between rivalry mance and friendship mance is starting.

Please let's not try to slam on one vs the other people. Not saying anyone has let's just not start.

I personally like the rivalry mance and my Hawkes love Anders. It doesn't have to be horrible just because you disagree with someone.

I don't really think we are. Why is debating the merits of friendmance or rivalmance so worrying? 

[silver-crescent]

Sarah1281 wrote...

But I doubt in a friendship romance Anders would even think of such things. Because if Hawke is with him and is also pro-mage, why should he have to worry?

Well, he fully expects Hawke to kill him at the end for blowing up the Chantry so at least as early as his getting the idea to blow up the Chantry he's worrying. I also think that Anders has a 'I will do whatever it takes and kill whoever I have to to free the mages' mentality before you even meet him. Maybe he doesn't specifically think 'I sure hope Hawke doesn't end up being one of those people I have to kill' but that doesn't change the fact that he would if he thought it was necessary.

But again, I would rather be aware of any circumstances that would lead a friend or lover to trying to kill me than be taken by surprise one day when I'm not radical enough for him.

Truth be told I don't think Anders ever actually wants to kill Hawke. I mean the only reason why in the end he ends up fighting him/her is because Hawke initiates it by attacking the mages. Given that the only other option would be to turn against the cause he had been fighting for for the last 7 or 8 years, Anders didn't really have much a choice.

[Ryzaki]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Oh look the divide between rivalry mance and friendship mance is starting.

Please let's not try to slam on one vs the other people. Not saying anyone has let's just not start.

I personally like the rivalry mance and my Hawkes love Anders. It doesn't have to be horrible just because you disagree with someone.

I don't really think we are. Why is debating the merits of friendmance or rivalmance so worrying? 

I wasn't referring to debating merits as much as sweeping generalizations. 

I've seen it tear other fan threads apart and wanted to jump the gun before it started. I rather not have this become a thread where you don't dare mention something for fear of an explosive and nasty arguement occuring. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 23 mars 2011 - 04:20 .

[Eydris Ivo]

Akrim_Drak wrote...

LE SIIIIIGH! Ugh. So I've been trying to get the romance scene with a bit less clothing. (I play as male Hawkes but I'll try to get it to work with ladies too eventually)

I'm no technical genius. I downloaded a few different mods and they weren't working how I wanted them to(underwear in the house) until today magically. Anyway now I gotta figure out how to do it with Anders without using someone elses save files. Been combing over the data and stuff and still cannot figure it out. Here's some pics though. Sorry it's more Hawke than Anders. 

@Akrim,

To get Anders shirtless, edit your game in a GFF editor, find Anders's appearance and change both of them to the value of 15. Use a special save for this. It worked for me. If you send me your saved game I could do it for you if you like

[Threeparts]

Kolotosa wrote...

By the time Act 3 rolled around, I personally just could see no good reason why these two people would stay together when they seemed to have zero common ground between them, unless there was some utterly base and selfish attraction. It felt angry, dirty and cheap, and like I could have picked up something healthier from the Blooming Rose.

I've only seen the videos, but I do agree with this. I don't fault anyone who enjoys it, and it certainly looks like fun from a sadistic, 'sexy tortured look' point of view, but I just don't think I could handle it. Anders' relationship is clingy and unhealthy enough as a friend, as a rival it just looks frightening. I rival-manced Merrill and it was a lot easier on my heart than even watching someone else do the angry Hawke and Anders thing.
I applaud those brave and steadfast enough to carry out the relationship, but I'll admit I want to swoop in there and take Anders out for ice cream or something.

[Rinji the Bearded]

Friendmance: He is smitten by Hawke because he/she supports all of his ideas and feels validated. Would do anything to protect them, but ultimately realizes that their love is only secondary when it comes to justice for mages. Justice grows impatient, and Anders tries to push Hawke away before he/she is hurt by him.

Rivalmance: Enraged by Hawke, wants so much to convince him/her that he/she is wrong about mages. Mood swings due to second-guessing self, Justice doesn't like that and fights harder for dominance. Ultimately he cannot overpower Justice, becomes extremely unstable and tries to push Hawke away for basically the same reasons above.

Both viable romances that are worth it, just up to preference.

Or at least that's how I see it.

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 23 mars 2011 - 04:27 .

[YamiSnuffles]

RinjiRenee wrote...

Friendmance: He is smitten by Hawke because he/she supports all of his ideas and feels validated. Would do anything to protect them, but ultimately realizes that their love is only secondary when it comes to justice for mages. Tries to push Hawke away before he/she is hurt by him.

Rivalmance: Enraged by Hawke, wants so much to convince him/her that he/she is wrong about mages. Mood swings due to second-guessing self, Justice doesn't like that and fights harder for dominance. Ultimately he cannot overpower Justice, becomes unstable and tries to push Hawke away for basically the same reasons above.

Both viable romances that are worth it, just up to preference.

Or at least that's how I see it.

Agreed. I personally will only ever do friendship but I understand why people do rivalry.

I think the problem with trying to debate the romance is its very nature. It feels personal even if the debate is not. It is an emotional subject. That's why I, personally, have bowed out of any more friendship/rivalry debates.

[Sialater]

Threeparts wrote...

Stinkface27 wrote...

@Threeparts - is it too late to submit songs to that playlist you have in your sig? After finishing the game today, I think this song fits the best for my Hawke's relationship with Anders...

http://listen.groove...rt/2w2zhQ?src=5

Never too late! Added, and thanks for the suggestion!

I suggested The Renegade by Styx and Johnny Cash's Hurt.  But they weren't added.  Not Anders' enough?

[Souris]

Sialater wrote...

Threeparts wrote...

Stinkface27 wrote...

@Threeparts - is it too late to submit songs to that playlist you have in your sig? After finishing the game today, I think this song fits the best for my Hawke's relationship with Anders...

http://listen.groove...rt/2w2zhQ?src=5

Never too late! Added, and thanks for the suggestion!

I suggested The Renegade by Styx and Johnny Cash's Hurt.  But they weren't added.  Not Anders' enough?

And to tag along with this, I subject Chase and Status - End Credits

[Rinji the Bearded]

Brodyaha wrote...

So, I PM'd Jennifer Hepler last week, both to thank her for writing Anders and to ask her a question regarding the romance. I thought some of you might find this interesting so, with her permission, I'm reposting (some of) the PM:

If you don't mind me asking, I noticed near the end that Justice/Vengeance isn't seen as much as in Act 1 or even Act 2. Justice doesn't come through when Anders is asking you to help him blow up the Chantry; it's Anders asking for the favour.

What I got from that was: Anders is struggling with Justice throughout the game, but it seems that Justice has to struggle less as the game goes on. Did Justice/Vengeance eventually influence/corrupt Anders and change him, just as Anders himself inadvertently corrupted Justice with his hate for the mages?

Or is it Justice/Vengeance who is talking through Anders and has taken over him, like when Anders gets his blackouts, and Anders is powerless to stop it?
Perhaps it's up to individual interpretation, but I thought I'd ask you.

~Brodyaha

It depends on whether you take the friendship or rivalry path. The friendship path is essentially encouraging him to accept Justice as part of himself, so there is a less visible struggle since their goals are the same. On the rival path, you can actually convince Anders that merging with Justice was a mistake, at which point Justice takes him over and is actually the one who commits the bombing. On the rival path, Anders blames Justice for bombing the Chantry and says that he can't control him at all anymore. So, his relationship with Justice in Act 3 changes based on how accepting Hawke has been of their relationship up to that point.

Jennifer

For the record, I friendmanced him.

Oh wow, I see!

[Threeparts]

Sialater wrote...

Threeparts wrote...

Stinkface27 wrote...

@Threeparts - is it too late to submit songs to that playlist you have in your sig? After finishing the game today, I think this song fits the best for my Hawke's relationship with Anders...

http://listen.groove...rt/2w2zhQ?src=5

Never too late! Added, and thanks for the suggestion!

I suggested The Renegade by Styx and Johnny Cash's Hurt.  But they weren't added.  Not Anders' enough?

No, not that - I just tend to lose suggestions in the flood of posts this thread has gotten. Added them and Souris' suggestion. Thanks, guys! If anyone else has suggestions, it's best to PM them to me if I'm not actively posting, otherwise they'll likely get lost in the shuffle. 

[Akrim_Drak]

Rheia1234 wrote...

@Akrim,

To get Anders shirtless, edit your game in a GFF editor, find Anders's appearance and change both of them to the value of 15. Use a special save for this. It worked for me. If you send me your saved game I could do it for you if you like

OMG how stupid easy that was. Now I feel dumb. Thanks 

[Trophonius]

With regards to rivalmance: doing the Justice quest yesterday, I'm just going to put it out there that you can temporarily make him question himself and his plans to obliterate the chantry. I don't remember if it was the same with friendmance, but I just realized that something disastrous was forthcoming with the way he says, "You don't need to worry about me, love. The war will come." It didn't help that he accompanied it with a particularly deranged and disturbing expression.

I don't think I prefer one over the other, to be honest: On one hand, you can encourage him and raise his confidence about his plans for mage insurrection; but on the other hand, you can make him feel conflicted and discourage his actions. Either way, they generate the same result no matter what. He will always accomplish his goal.

[DeaHamlet]

I don't recall who suggested Extreme by Valora (I keep opening up tabs as I'm catching up with this thread, lol)... but I just heard it and wanted to say... PERFECT.
At least perfect for the Hawke/Anders romance that I run with him. (I only have one type of playthrough for a romance with him - my canon. I just have to redo it cause I messed up a lot of stuff)

[LastFadingSmile]

I've been listening to a lot of Death Cab for Cutie lately, which is probably also a contributing factor in my incongruous romantic cynicism.

Soundtrack for my Friendly Romance: I Will Follow You Into The Dark
Soundtrack for my Rival Romance: Tiny Vessels 


Also, I just saw the quote from Jennifer Hepler and found that sort of sadly satisfying. I did think that during the final rival conversation there was a moment of...clarity... in Anders, like maybe he was reconsidering, and then Justice went all Harbinger again. I wasn't sure if I'd interpretted it correctly, but I guess I did. Oh.

Modifié par Kolotosa, 23 mars 2011 - 04:46 .

[silver-crescent]

That's great to read! That's exactly how I saw it. Friend Hawke helps Anders accept that Justice is PART of himself, none of that Justice completely taking over business.

[Sarah1281]

At some point (I'm not sure if it's friendmance or rivalmance) he says "Don't despair for me love, this is what I was born to do." It REALLY had the opposite effect on my Hawke. After all, if it wasn't something horrible he wouldn't have needed to tell her not to despair for him. Aveline never tells you not to despair for her because she was born to lead the guards, for example.

[Threeparts]

Oh, and my own contribution for Hawke and Anders in Act III: Don't Believe Anymore by The Whitlams.

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

Brodyaha wrote...

It depends on whether you take the friendship or rivalry path. The friendship path is essentially encouraging him to accept Justice as part of himself, so there is a less visible struggle since their goals are the same. On the rival path, you can actually convince Anders that merging with Justice was a mistake, at which point Justice takes him over and is actually the one who commits the bombing. On the rival path, Anders blames Justice for bombing the Chantry and says that he can't control him at all anymore. So, his relationship with Justice in Act 3 changes based on how accepting Hawke has been of their relationship up to that point.

Jennifer

That's wonderfully depressing. Willful act of terrorism vs people puppet for a ruthless vengeful spirit with no perspective. PICK YOUR POISON.

*cries*

Modifié par Pseudocognition, 23 mars 2011 - 04:45 .

[Rinji the Bearded]

Pseudocognition wrote...

Brodyaha wrote...

It depends on whether you take the friendship or rivalry path. The friendship path is essentially encouraging him to accept Justice as part of himself, so there is a less visible struggle since their goals are the same. On the rival path, you can actually convince Anders that merging with Justice was a mistake, at which point Justice takes him over and is actually the one who commits the bombing. On the rival path, Anders blames Justice for bombing the Chantry and says that he can't control him at all anymore. So, his relationship with Justice in Act 3 changes based on how accepting Hawke has been of their relationship up to that point.

Jennifer

That's wonderfully depressing. Willful act of terrorism vs people puppet for a ruthless vengeful spirit with no perspective. PICK YOUR POISON.

*cries*

IT'S SO SAD BUT SO BEAUTIFUL ,  Anders is gone either way...

I need a hug

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 23 mars 2011 - 04:46 .

[Mxcl]

Brodyaha wrote...
<snip interesting reveal here>

Thanks a lot for posting that, really clears things up in my mind at least.

Ryzaki wrote...
<snip firend/rivalry stuff here>
 

Don't get me wrong, regardless of whichever way the Friend/Rivalry bar swings I think both are great at expounding on Anders. If you like one, I feel you owe it to yourself to see the other side at least once.

I was mostly just shocked, but after thinking about it, seven years of Justice/Vengance merged with you and I'm willing to cut anyone some slack. It also helps that no matter what Anders does to my Hawke I can't hate him.

[Ryzaki]

I always thought Vengeance made him do it on the rivalry path D:

Damnit.

Stupid Vengeance controlling Anders.


This has increased my love for the rivalry mance though.  

Modifié par Ryzaki, 23 mars 2011 - 04:48 .

[silver-crescent]

Pseudocognition wrote...

Brodyaha wrote...

It depends on whether you take the friendship or rivalry path. The friendship path is essentially encouraging him to accept Justice as part of himself, so there is a less visible struggle since their goals are the same. On the rival path, you can actually convince Anders that merging with Justice was a mistake, at which point Justice takes him over and is actually the one who commits the bombing. On the rival path, Anders blames Justice for bombing the Chantry and says that he can't control him at all anymore. So, his relationship with Justice in Act 3 changes based on how accepting Hawke has been of their relationship up to that point.

Jennifer

That's wonderfully depressing. Willful act of terrorism vs people puppet for a ruthless vengeful spirit with no perspective. PICK YOUR POISON.

*cries*

I dunno, I for one don't think the "act of terrorism" is such a big deal given the context. I mean, I get that that it is supposed to be a big deal. But the truth is Hawke and his companions have killed thousands of people by then, so what's a few more. If you think about it, all of those nameless thugs and whatnot had families too.

[aimo_ahmed]

Pseudocognition wrote...

Brodyaha wrote...

It depends on whether you take the friendship or rivalry path. The friendship path is essentially encouraging him to accept Justice as part of himself, so there is a less visible struggle since their goals are the same. On the rival path, you can actually convince Anders that merging with Justice was a mistake, at which point Justice takes him over and is actually the one who commits the bombing. On the rival path, Anders blames Justice for bombing the Chantry and says that he can't control him at all anymore. So, his relationship with Justice in Act 3 changes based on how accepting Hawke has been of their relationship up to that point.

Jennifer

That's wonderfully depressing. Willful act of terrorism vs people puppet for a ruthless vengeful spirit with no perspective. PICK YOUR POISON.

*cries*

....and suddenly I want to restart my Warrior Hawke and rivalmance him instead. Damn it, Dev insight, you suddenly make this playthrough relevant to my interests even more ;_;

Modifié par aimo_ahmed, 23 mars 2011 - 04:50 .