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[Heidenreich]

Naqey wrote...

berelinde wrote...

Heiden's giggles about M!Hawke/Anders and a vaguely similar discussion on the Fenris thread got me thinking about what kind of Hawke people like for Anders.

For me, the answer is pretty much"all of them," and from there on out, it becomes a question of which one I enjoy playing the most. I know that most folks seem to like sarcastic Hawke with Anders, but are there any matches that you've made that are outside your usual playing style? I'm talking about something you'd actually play here, not "Well, if I can ever get past the first ten minutes with ultra-diplo M!Hawke, he's the one I'm saving for Anders." Because creating a Hawke you loathe simply to romance a character isn't going to end well no matter who you romance.

The "odd bird" for me was probably a sarcastic male warrior Hawke (templar specs) who rivaled Anders and sided with the mages at the end.

Edit: And that's different from my "favorite" Anders Hawke, who's a diplo/sarcastic mage with a very different attitude toward the guy.

Interesting question! 

This might seem strange, but I don't really like mage Hawkes (sarcastic, diplomatic, whatever) for Anders. Which doesn't mean that my current mage f!Hawke won't end up with Anders. I just don't think it's too... healthy? Sure, Anders is always bonkers, no matter what. But I feel that being romantically involved with a non-mage can only do Anders good, in terms of sanity. I'm always a little afraid that he might get even more obsessed with the whole issue than he is anyway. He might end up believing in mage superiority and despise every non-mage. Sometimes he seems very close to displaying such an attitude. Loving a non-mage Hawke, especially one on the friendship path which convinces him that not every non-mage is necessarily also anti-mage, "grounds" Anders.

And that's why my favourite Hawke for Anders is sarcastic rogue Hawke. He doesn't go along with everything Anders wants, but can function as an opposite pole for Anders when needed. And he is cheerful enough to help lift Anders' spirits when he is at his most depressed and fanatical.

Which is exactly why my Rogue!Hawke is the one I use to romance Anders ;p She's Diplo/Sarcastic, agrees with Anders on a lot of things, but kills Anders for blowing up the chantry (and HATES herself for it). Q_Q.

My mage always ends up with Fenris, because really at the end of the day, he's the only one strong enough to protect her from... everything, including herself.

Eff You top. Seriously.



by Azunaai

Modifié par Heidenreich, 22 septembre 2011 - 04:28 .

[Sialater]

I dunno... I like my mage Hawkes with both. My sane mages balancing Anders' obsession and teaching Fenris there's another side to magic.


Dunno if y'all have seen this... By GiveThemHorns

Modifié par Sialater, 22 septembre 2011 - 04:28 .

[YamiSnuffles]

I don't think there is any one "best" type of Hawke for Anders. Male, female, rogue, warrior, or mage... it all just depends on the Hawke. This thread is proof enough that there are a lot of different Hawkes that make it work with Anders. Which isn't to say I don't have a preference, but my own preference is just that- my own. I absolutely adore how my canon Hawke is with Anders but I also love to see how other people have done things. I've had the pleasure of dealing with a lot of different Hawkes and it's fun to see how they all find their own way of being with Anders.

As for mage Hawke, I actually just started my very first one. She's still early in act 1. I plan to have her romance Anders, but I haven't completely decided yet. I would also like to romance Fenris since I haven't done so yet. I'm just not sure who this Hawke fits with. I think instead of planning it out, I'm just going to have to let her go where she will.

Modifié par YamiSnuffles, 22 septembre 2011 - 05:22 .

[berelinde]

Yeah, Yami, I agree with you when you say that there isn't any one "best" Hawke for Anders. And I, too, like seeing the different kinds of Hawkes people pair him with. It's fun to hear the reasons, too!

About the only Hawke I won't pair him with is a cruel, insensitive one. He breaks down fast enough without outside help.

[Sialater]

Right now, for me, he's paired with this one:

Margaret Hawke, spirit healer & force mage.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

It's funny that when I kept trying to create characters who were "perfect for Anders," they ended up with someone else. Esk is my best example: I thought "Ok, what Anders would like best is a mage-positive apostate Hawke who is already actively fighting for mage freedom when he meets her. All the stuff she does for mages by providing a positive example will be super deliberate, and she may even have mage contacts beyond what Anders has. She'll have absolutely no problem with the idea of him having a spirit inside him and fighting the power."

I created Esk that way, and she was everything I imagined... but she didn't end up with Anders. She liked him at first and flirted with him, but she got frustrated quickly. Her reaction to him was basically "Why are you so upset that you're an incredibly powerful spirit-mage who can actually accomplish something? I think what you are is great, and I'm confident that I can keep you from going off the rails. So let's do this thing without all the self-recrimination, yeah?"

When he continued to angst about things and warn her off, even when she was being completely positive, brave, and supportive, she just took him at his word and decided not to pressure him any more. She ended up having a fling with Fenris, and when he walked away she decided to have a fling with Izzy... but she just coudln't resist teasing her about falling in love, and so they began sort of a game of "romance chicken" where they constantly joked about falling in love with each other until they realized they'd actually done it.

In the end, she saw Anders as someone who was simply not help-able, someone she cared about and tried to help, but whose drama she couldn't let herself be dragged down by. And that's basically true... Anders ends up in a fairly similar emotional state whether or not you romance him, regardless of what the Codex might say - it's just whether he's friended or rivaled that seems to really count. I imagine that he must refuse or reject offers of explicit help, seeing as his emotional progress is pretty much identical with all friend Hawkes, regardless of how active or passionate they might be.

(Esk was also the character who convinced me that either Anders must actively refuse all help and discussion, and have screaming fights off-camera with friend Hawkes who try to help him, or Hawke must be the kind of person who won't confront people about their issues.)

So yes, in trying to create a perfect Hawke for Anders, I created one who just could not deal with his bull****, the first one for whom that was true. I'm sure there's a lesson there, somewhere.

[esper]

Funny, my Marian Hawke is a mage, who is supportive and have no problem at all with Anders-Justice. She doesn't understand why he angst so much about it, but she doesn't get scared off by Anders' 'I will break you heart', because she is convinced pretty early on that he loves her, so at some point he will realise that his self establish no-touch arrangement is stupid.

I have no doubt that this Marian and Anders are good for each other on a personal level, but on the whole mage cause level I am not so sure. My Marian is very sure that she is right about almost everything and she is a blood mage. The only thing keeping her from seeking demonic aid is the fact that she knows that the Justice part of Anders would never forgive her. Basically Anders and my Marian are so supportive of each other that I sort of fear for Thedas as neither of them would ever be able to compromize and they strengthen the other's extremism.

Modifié par esper, 22 septembre 2011 - 08:28 .

[Naqey]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

In the end, she saw Anders as someone who was simply not help-able, someone she cared about and tried to help, but whose drama she couldn't let herself be dragged down by. And that's basically true... Anders ends up in a fairly similar emotional state whether or not you romance him, regardless of what the Codex might say - it's just whether he's friended or rivaled that seems to really count. I imagine that he must refuse or reject offers of explicit help, seeing as his emotional progress is pretty much identical with all friend Hawkes, regardless of how active or passionate they might be.

(Esk was also the character who convinced me that either Anders must actively refuse all help and discussion, and have screaming fights off-camera with friend Hawkes who try to help him, or Hawke must be the kind of person who won't confront people about their issues.)

So yes, in trying to create a perfect Hawke for Anders, I created one who just could not deal with his bull****, the first one for whom that was true. I'm sure there's a lesson there, somewhere.

Maybe the lesson is that all your characters are much to sensible to actually get involved with Anders? If realizing that Anders is "simply not help-able" keeps them from him, than they obviously lack that masochistic streak which every Hawke falling for Anders must somehow have. Except for very dumb Hawkes, who really don't see where it is all headed, or very callous Hawkes.

[hobbit of the shire]

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...
Hello, guys, have any of you seen this yet? Apparently, David Gaider has answered some questions for a fangirl while he was in New Orleans. How nice!

Am I weird because I read that initially as "New Orlais"?   Thanks for the link.

[Ryzaki]

Ah so Anders and Justice could probably be seperated. 

Interesting.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 23 septembre 2011 - 07:06 .

[Arquen]

I like how Gaider likes to throw wrenches in discussion topics. Its almost like you want to go ... "but if that's true then what about xx?" Lol

[AndreaDraco]

Sialater wrote...


By GiveThemHorns

That's awesome! Really, really nice

[Ulaume]

That ^ picture is fantastic.
...
I'm seeing a fair amount of references around the place to Coffee, black.  Would some charitable person please link me to a place I can start reading it from the beginning, ideally in a less aggravating format than Live Journal?  I'd be most grateful

Also, I recall from some time ago someone posting a short piece that featured Anders as a doctor (actually I think all mages were in this modern day AU) and Hawke was bringing him a  sandwich (which he'd already eaten half of) for lunch on his motorbike. 
I absolutely loved it and would love to read it again but it is so hard to sift through all these pages without any real idea of when it was/who it was by. 
If anyone knows which one I mean or is the person who wrote it (I do apologise for not being able to recall the name of the author) please repost or link!  And I wonder if any more was/would be written of that, I loved it - instantly drew me in and I usually avoid fanfic.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Here's Coffee, Black on AO3. It seems that my primary job these days is recommending that fic to people and providing links. I'm helping!

[Nilfalasiel]

Ryzaki wrote...

Ah so Anders and Justice could probably be separated. 

Interesting.

Yeah, I think that this is a promising bit of information. And from a reliable source, no less.

[Lilaeth]

Maddcassel wrote...

I'd go bonkers too if I had someone like Sebastian staring at me all the time.

I though I'd gone bonkers last night when I suddenly noticed that the voice I could hear in the background while I was lying in bed reading was HIS voice!  Then I realised I'd left the telly on, and the actor who does his voice is now in Waterloo Road!  Freaked me out for about 20 seconds, mind you! 

[berelinde]

Nilfalasiel wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Ah so Anders and Justice could probably be separated. 

Interesting.

Yeah, I think that this is a promising bit of information. And from a reliable source, no less.

It is interesting. I wonder if that means that Anders's psyche would remain more or less intact afterward.

[Melca36]

Happy Friday!

[ladyofpayne]

Melca36 wrote...

Happy Friday!

Ducky Dance!

[Naqey]

berelinde wrote...

Nilfalasiel wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Ah so Anders and Justice could probably be separated. 

Interesting.

Yeah, I think that this is a promising bit of information. And from a reliable source, no less.

It is interesting. I wonder if that means that Anders's psyche would remain more or less intact afterward.

Gaider also seemed to imply that it had to do with Anders' willingness to seperate. The only scenario in which that would be true (i.e. Anders acknowledging that a seperation would be better) is rivalry path/sided with templars. He seems quite suicidal at that point, so I guess the damage to the psyche is already done... But that's probably not the kind of damage you were speaking of? 

[Nilfalasiel]

Naqey wrote...

Gaider also seemed to imply that it had to do with Anders' willingness to separate. The only scenario in which that would be true (i.e. Anders acknowledging that a separation would be better) is rivalry path/sided with templars. He seems quite suicidal at that point, so I guess the damage to the psyche is already done... But that's probably not the kind of damage you were speaking of? 

I don't know. A couple of years of bloody war might make him wish he'd done things differently. And since doing things differently with Vengeance around isn't an option, well...

[berelinde]

I'm also thinking that rivalled Anders might consider it as an alternative to suicide... or as a precursor to it. Despite his complete disgust and lack of faith in the Chantry, he does seem to believe in the Maker, and I vaguely remember a dialogue where he says that suicide is a sin against the Maker, yet that is exactly how most mages die. I could be mistaken on that. My memories of it are very, very dim.

[Heidenreich]

berelinde wrote...

I'm also thinking that rivalled Anders might consider it as an alternative to suicide... or as a precursor to it. Despite his complete disgust and lack of faith in the Chantry, he does seem to believe in the Maker, and I vaguely remember a dialogue where he says that suicide is a sin against the Maker, yet that is exactly how most mages die. I could be mistaken on that. My memories of it are very, very dim.

It's actually a conversation between Anders and Fenris. I'll paraphrase it -- Anders ask Fenris why he hadn't killed himself while in Denarius's service if it was as horrible as Fenris always seems to make it out to be. Fenris says that Suicide is a sin in the eyes of the Maker. Anders is supprised to hear this out of Fenris, of all people, and asks if he really believes that. Fenris remarks that some thing has to be worse then slavery. Anders mutters "Some things are worse then death"


He isn't against suicide, if the situation is extreme enough. He was just suprised that Fenris would be.