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[cmessaz]

Try choosing snarky. He outright says it. ;_;


Oh joy top. Well idk if this has already been posted or not.



By Wildbara

Modifié par cmessaz, 19 octobre 2011 - 03:11 .

[BevH]

Jackalope wrote...

Nilfalasiel wrote...

If you rival Anders and side with the Templars (well, it's the only way to make him side with the Templars), it's implied that he kills himself afterwards. Cf. his "I cannot live past this" line. I'm more surprised by the fact that he doesn't kill himself instead of agreeing to help you.

But yes, to all intents and purposes, that would mean that the relationship is over.

Gaaaaaaaaaaaah I was going to do a Rivalmance and side with the Templars...but I think that's too much for me.  Don't get me wrong, it's very bittersweet, and I'm okay with less-than-happy-endings...but damn.

Well... I don't know about that...

I did a DAO game with my HNF who was set to marry Alistair, but didn't do the ritual and made the ultimate sacrifice. I imported this game and the codex for the Hero of Ferelden read al the usual for the first paragraph. The second read that she made the ultimate sacrifice. All's well and good, right? But there's a third paragraph that reads that she married Alistair and they rule Ferelden together.

So maybe, just maybe, the relationship with Anders isn't over?!?

[Nilfalasiel]

BevH wrote...

Well... I don't know about that...

I did a DAO game with my HNF who was set to marry Alistair, but didn't do the ritual and made the ultimate sacrifice. I imported this game and the codex for the Hero of Ferelden read al the usual for the first paragraph. The second read that she made the ultimate sacrifice. All's well and good, right? But there's a third paragraph that reads that she married Alistair and they rule Ferelden together.

So maybe, just maybe, the relationship with Anders isn't over?!?

Ain't nothin' like zombie lovin'!

I mean, simply the fact that you can import a dead Warden into Awakening.

Come to think of it, Shepard is ME is technically undead too...I'm seeing a trend here.

[ladyofdragons]

Hello! First time posting... just finished my first play through of DA:O/A + 2 last weekend. Been lurking for a little bit, hope you don't mind if I jump in? ^__^

All this corpse talk brings back the notion of Justice/Vengence animating Ander's dead body just as he did Kistoff's. AHH! The conflict of emotions that comes with that, *flail* it's so morbid and sad and funny... oh gawd. 

It's good to know the full outcome of rivaling him and having him side with the templars. When I found out this was possible I wanted to try it, I love experiencing all the content, but now that I know the full story I'm not sure I want it to be canon for the Hawke that rivalmances him... I started a F!Rogue last night with the intent to rivalmance him buuuuut then she said "OH HAI FENRIS" so I think I need to find another Hawke for Anders, part 2. I think I'll roll a pro-templar warrior to rival him and let him convert her over to the mages, but maybe fork the save and play then end twice, choosing templars first so I can see it. On that note... I don't suppose choosing the templar specialization has any real effect in the game beyond combat does it?

I love tragic characters. Anytime a story can generate the level of attachment like we see in the DA series and then make it mean something-- and not necessialy something good or pleasant-- I think is brilliant. Anders is a beautiful example of that, and I'm glad I chose him as my romance option for my mage Hawke. I gave up single player RPGs in favor of MMOs for the last 10 years, but there's no story. There's no emotion, attachment or immersion.  I missed it. The DA series has been whispering "you know you want to"  in my ear for months and I finally gave in. Now I'm throughly obsessed dooooomed. 

[YamiSnuffles]

Welcome, ladyofdragons!

Choosing the Templar specialization sadly doesn't gave any effect on the story. It would have been nice if Anders (or Fenris... or anybody) at least acknowledged if Hawke was a Templar or a Blood Mage. But, alas, it isn't so.

Hopefully Anders won't come back as a zombie. Gaider said if the player kills him, he's good and dead. That doesn't entirely rule out Justice with a meat puppet, but I'm hoping he doesn't ever come back like that.

[nixeleth]

Oddly enough, I never considered Justice just... er... picking up where Anders left off. Even with Justice being forced to possess Kristoff, I just thought that he'd consider it a violation to keep using Anders' corpse. Then again, if he's Vengeance, maybe he might think the ends justify the means? Man, that would be awful. So awful. I wonder if they're going to carry Justice over to III now...

[Lady_Aescwyn]

*sneaks in*

Hey there everyone. ^__^ You've got another Anders fan here, but I don't have anything relevent to add to to the discussion right now. I don't even have any lovely eyecandy fanart to share! XD So instead... I guess... I'll just go over here...

*sits quietly in the corner and waves a "Team Anders" flag*

Modifié par Lady_Aescwyn, 19 octobre 2011 - 07:24 .

[ladyofdragons]

Thanks YamiSnuffles!  *waves at Lady Aescwyn* 
Aww, no ackowledment for blood magic either? Too bad. Templar I sort of understand-- how would they even explain how Hawke's gets templar training when he's not in the order?-- but blood magic seems easy enough to intergrate. Aw well. That's what RP and headcanon are for. 


And yes, Justice!UndeadAnders is like a train wreak.. I just... can't stop looking. Ugh. D:  I made it worse too by loading an old save right before the Chantry blew, picked the choice to kill him, then was doubly disturbed when I couldn't find a body afterwards.  (maybe there is one later, I don't know, I didn't it out to the end) PSA: Conspiricay theory is only fun until someone gets hurt kids!

I suppose it's possible that Anders may even give Justice permission to continue making use of his body until he  finds a new host or completes whatever goal he might have. That seems... a bit out there, but considering Anders' mental state at the end it's hard to say what he would or wouldn't do.

Regardless I also hope they don't go there, or if they do it's just an off camera mention. I'd rather not see it, and my Rowen Hawke who ran off with him in the end agrees.

[BevH]

ladyofdragons wrote...

Thanks YamiSnuffles!  *waves at Lady Aescwyn* 
Aww, no ackowledment for blood magic either? Too bad. Templar I sort of understand-- how would they even explain how Hawke's gets templar training when he's not in the order?-- but blood magic seems easy enough to intergrate. Aw well. That's what RP and headcanon are for. 


And yes, Justice!UndeadAnders is like a train wreak.. I just... can't stop looking. Ugh. D:  I made it worse too by loading an old save right before the Chantry blew, picked the choice to kill him, then was doubly disturbed when I couldn't find a body afterwards.  (maybe there is one later, I don't know, I didn't it out to the end) PSA: Conspiricay theory is only fun until someone gets hurt kids!

I suppose it's possible that Anders may even give Justice permission to continue making use of his body until he  finds a new host or completes whatever goal he might have. That seems... a bit out there, but considering Anders' mental state at the end it's hard to say what he would or wouldn't do.

Regardless I also hope they don't go there, or if they do it's just an off camera mention. I'd rather not see it, and my Rowen Hawke who ran off with him in the end agrees.

The way I see the explanation of Hawke being a templar: Hawke takes the templar training in Lothering, but doesn't get to the final vows because of Ostagar, much the same as Alistair. Hawke has the abilities of a templar without ever fully becoming one. The reason Hawke would take the training? What better way to keep track of whether the templars are aware of the Hawkes?

Modifié par BevH, 19 octobre 2011 - 10:06 .

[Lady_Aescwyn]

*waves at Ladyofdragons and BevH* ^__^

BevH wrote...

The way I see the explanation of Hawke being a templar: Hawke takes the templar training in Lothering, but doesn't get to the final vows because of Ostagar, much the same as Alistair. Hawke has the abilities of a templar without ever fully becoming one. The reason Hawke would take the training? What better way to keep track of whether the templars are aware of the Hawkes?

The reason I've come up with for my main warrior Lady!Hawke is pretty much this.

As the oldest of three, she's devoted herself to defending her younger siblings. Of course, of her siblings, Bethany is in the most danger as an apostate. Who is Bethany's greatest threat? Demons? There is no way my warrior!Hawke can defend her sister against those... Not to say she wouldn't try, through. So she trusts her father to teach Bethany what she needs to know and instead focuses on the other main threat. Templars. It actually started out as a way to learn more about them. Know thine enemy, right? But my warrior lady found the techniques useful against another possible threat to her sister: blood mages. So, while she's not offically a templar, she has a very templar-esque fighting style. Much like Alistair.

But back on topic here... XD
It disappointed me that there was no acknowledgement of her templar abilities from Anders. Still, that's what imagination and fanfiction are for. ^__^

Modifié par Lady_Aescwyn, 19 octobre 2011 - 11:04 .

[Arquen]

Hi Anders thread. Been lurking for a bit because not much to contribute, honestly.

Been taking Anders with me on MotA. Lol, makes me love him a bit more. I totally miss the snarky side of him sometimes, and then it all comes crashing back with "im a danger to everyone around me." Dawww no worries... not everyone, just Templars and Chantry buildings, lol.

[Tyrium]

I'm really hoping there's no zombie!Anders - I don't think I could take that ... That said, I'm still too chicken to kill him, and Rhiannon always runs off with him at the end, so it wouldn't affect me. Still ...

I love the bits of snark you still get from Anders, especially in the DLCs. This series is just so damn good at hooking you into the characters, I've never been so attached to fictional characters as I am to DA2. Especially our "unique" apostate!

[Tyrium]

cmessaz wrote...

Lady Jess wrote...

So sort of related to the current discussion. Having never rivaled Anders, (and only EVER speccing the healing side of his talents), is "Vengeance" more prevalent when rivaled? Because I seem to see more Justice on the friendship path with only a few episodes of Vengeance. I always thought Karl was more raging Justice, because he was unjustly tranquilized. Ella (not the Templars prior to that) and the Chantry were the only Vengeance I have really seen.

Yus...and it's kinda hot.

... seconded

[Arquen]

Lol.. I'm pretty sure it has already been said that if you kill Anders he won't be coming back. I remember DG already clearing up the zombie Anders thing a while ago, lol.

I killed him on my Templar PTs. I just... I couldn't let him side with the Templars.. that breaks my heart even though I don't romance him. I sided with the Templars twice - one time murder knifing and the other time killing him when he came back. Both times made me sad. I think I even reloaded that 2nd Templar sideing just to side with the mages and not have to kill him.

Still... I can't bring myself to do the rival side with the Templars. I think I would rather kill him than that. It seems... more merciful.

[Jean]

/Justice will totally haunt his rotting corpse/

Tears will be shed by me.

[berelinde]

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...

Lady_Aescwyn wrote...


But back on topic here... XD
It disappointed me that there was no acknowledgement of her templar abilities from Anders. Still, that's what imagination and fanfiction are for. ^__^

There's no acknowledgement of any of the special abilities, sadly - I think it was because they finished all of the writing before they decided what kinds of special abilities would be given to each class. It's kind of sad, because I had anticipated some hot, hot tension between my blood mage and, well, everyone besides Merrill, Isabela and Varric. Alas.

That's what they said. And while it's possible that the stated reason is part of it, I'm willing to put real money on the officially rejected reason that another part of it is that this is yet another instance of "streamlining," a shortcut they hoped would not be as obvious as it turned out to be. Am I expected to believe that they didn't know from the first day of planning that blood mages and templars would not be player-accessible specializations? It was not as if they did not realize what role these two groups would have in the plot. And after all the flak they received when nobody commented on blood magic in Origins, too. Ah, well.

I've actually come up with a way to justify Anders remaining with a blood mage Hawke. It involves Hawke discovering the talent accidentally, being as unhappy about it as Anders, and not actually developing that skill tree beyond taking the specialization. Why bother, you may ask. (Well, you may. I didn't say that you will.)  Because a second specialization is necessary and I don't want my canon Hawke to steal Anders's thunder. Nobody in the party is as good a healer as he is. At least not in my headcanon.

[Arquen]

Yeah but learning a healing spec is the perfect time to RP Anders' apprentice and "play doctor" with him, lol.

I Rp my healing mage as respecting Anders and wanting to learn from him. She is such a sweet, naive thing.. just wanting to help Ferelden's and she is kind of awed by Anders' healing skills. Hoping one day to be as good. Lol. They were totally BFF healing buds, lol.

[berelinde]

Heh. I just read my post from earlier today. I really, really need to stop reading the forums before I've had my morning coffee. Queen, I am astonished you were able to get the gist of that first paragraph.

[ladyofdragons]

As for blood mage justification... I always thought there could be a line of thinking that separates blood magic into two sub-schools if you will... I think it's possible to group what we've heard about blood magic can do into corruption or self sacrifice. This is mostly inspired by the events in Legacy though there are other references as I recall... It's a theory, I should really look at it more closely, becuase now I'm curious if it can hold up.


I took spirit healer for Rowen, my mage!Hawke, originally because I hated only having one source of healing through Origins, mostly because it made it hard to spend time with all the characters for banter, quests and such. Mechanically it helped make many battles in DA2 easier since I could fall back into heal form if things went bad.

In my headcanon, Rowen knows she could never come close to Anders' skill at healing, but she takes great pride in her skills as a mage and prefers to diversify her toolkit because as a natural "fixer" or problem solver she feels the more tools she has the better. She also feels protective of him, and being able to have his back as a healer gives her an option other than kill stuff faster/CC. Plus, having him mentor her in healing was an excellent "excuse" to spend more time with him. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/angel.png[/smilie]

Having a second rez is grand too. My Anders is a bit squishy... My husband giggles at me when I revive him and say "I got you baby, don't worry!" XD

Lady_Aescwyn wrote...

*waves at Ladyofdragons and BevH* ^__^

BevH wrote...

The way I see the explanation of Hawke being a templar: Hawke takes the templar training in Lothering, but doesn't get to the final vows because of Ostagar, much the same as Alistair. Hawke has the abilities of a templar without ever fully becoming one. The reason Hawke would take the training? What better way to keep track of whether the templars are aware of the Hawkes?

The reason I've come up with for my main warrior Lady!Hawke is pretty much this.

As the oldest of three, she's devoted herself to defending her younger siblings. Of course, of her siblings, Bethany is in the most danger as an apostate. Who is Bethany's greatest threat? Demons? There is no way my warrior!Hawke can defend her sister against those... Not to say she wouldn't try, through. So she trusts her father to teach Bethany what she needs to know and instead focuses on the other main threat. Templars. It actually started out as a way to learn more about them. Know thine enemy, right? But my warrior lady found the techniques useful against another possible threat to her sister: blood mages. So, while she's not offically a templar, she has a very templar-esque fighting style. Much like Alistair.

But back on topic here... XD
It disappointed me that there was no acknowledgement of her templar abilities from Anders. Still, that's what imagination and fanfiction are for. ^__^

Those are great reasonings for templar!Hawke, nice! I will probably use a variation on that. I was also thinking that my warrior!Hawke secretly wonders if Bethany would be safer at the Ferelden Circle (pre-blight when it was not so bad). She's a very protective sort and always worries for her. So she starts of pro-Circle but her time in Kirkwall and especially rivaling Anders turns her around. 

[Sister Helen]

Haven't been on this thread in a few months, but I had to add some comments:

1) I'm partway through a rivalmance with Anders, and I have to say, I like his dialogue and responses much better than friendmance Anders. One of the best lines EVER is Anders' crie de coeur: "How can you be so antagonistic by day and so passionate by night?!" also, Anders is more victim of Justice than a co-conspirator, in the rivalmance. Good stuff.

My only gripe about the rivalmance is that my Hawke has to become a complete ghasthole to Anders to pursue it. Meh.

2) I *loved* Anders in the Mark of the Assassin DLC. Good to see the sweet guy from Act 1 instead of mad-crazy manifesto guy in Act 3. Good work by Bioware, as my import was from end-o-game-Anders-survives. He was back to his old self, reminiscent of when he was that nice healer hiding out in the sewers, runninga free clinic for refugees.
My one gripe about the rivalmance

[ladyofdragons]

Sister Helen wrote...
/snip

2) I *loved* Anders in the Mark of the Assassin DLC. Good to see the sweet guy from Act 1 instead of mad-crazy manifesto guy in Act 3. Good work by Bioware, as my import was from end-o-game-Anders-survives. He was back to his old self, reminiscent of when he was that nice healer hiding out in the sewers, runninga free clinic for refugees.

I just have to chime in on this and agree. I was actually mid Act3 on my first playthrough when MotA released, and I'm glad I waited til post campagin to play though it. It was wonderful levity after the end game trama. I couldn't stop clicking on him. And his little giggle after Fenris grumbles about the manservant comment-- it gave me pause! Tugged at my heart strings it did. I thought, oh gawd... when was the last time I heard him happy?  I feel like a freak but I kind of want to cap that sound and convert it to a text message alert for my phone. 

And his rescue fantasy, so happy I got that banter. XD I am tempted to make a bad trashy romance novel cover parody now... >_>

I flirted with Tallis the whole time because I wanted to hear the banter, and because Rowen, though devoted, is also a fairly shameless flirt. I loved Anders' reactions, and his brief exchange with Tallis at the end. I like to think Rowen made it up to him afterward, affirmation as it were! 

Modifié par ladyofdragons, 20 octobre 2011 - 05:44 .

[Sister Helen]

I ran Anders in the Mark of the Assassins DLC with Varric on one playthrough and with Aveline on the other.

The rescue fantasy... Is that dialogue you get on an Anders-Fenris playthrough? Or with some other set of characters?