57019 réponses à ce sujet

[slyborg]

The BioWare fan group on DA is doing a gift themed contest so I am going to do a cute pic of my Hawke giving Anders his new kitten. Just color blocked everything in, don't know if my digital art skill is high enough to make it look decent but I am surely giving it a go....



Anyway, I was thinking about this the other night and was wondering where Anders' anger towards the Chantry/Templars/Circle comes from. He seems to have such an overwhelming amount of anger that it is enough to change Justice into Vengeance. It almost seems like he has been the victim of blatant abuse while involved in those institutions. He rebels violently from them, runs away, seems overly flirty later in life? Just being locked up away from his family doesn't seem a big enough cause for his hatred.

Maybe I have watched too many Law and Order SVU episodes.... Most other mages we meet in the game are okay with living under the same circumstances besides those that choose blood magic for various reasons.

*Edit for my cruddy first drawing for the top.

Modifié par slyborg, 28 novembre 2011 - 12:10 .

[Nyreen]

slyborg wrote...

Anyway, I was thinking about this the other night and was wondering where Anders' anger towards the Chantry/Templars/Circle comes from. He seems to have such an overwhelming amount of anger that it is enough to change Justice into Vengeance. It almost seems like he has been the victim of blatant abuse while involved in those institutions. He rebels violently from them, runs away, seems overly flirty later in life? Just being locked up away from his family doesn't seem a big enough cause for his hatred.

Maybe I have watched too many Law and Order SVU episodes.... Most other mages we meet in the game are okay with living under the same circumstances besides those that choose blood magic for various reasons.

Well, my guess is that his former flirtiness stemmed from his playful nature and from the Circle's concept of relationships and sex. As for his hatred, even Wynne hated the Circle a while, and my impression was that most mages disliked being locked up all their lives. Maybe they didn't rebel, but they certainly weren't overjoyed to be confined to a tower their entire lives.

Anders is also one of the few mages who wasn't taken from his family at a very early age. At twelve he had plenty of memories of his family and a life of freedom. Most mages can barely remember their families, and thus cannot miss what they never had.

You said it yourself that he has been a victim of abuse while with these institutions, one example being an entire year spent in solitary confinement. There's more than enough anger in reaction to that torture to last a lifetime. I'm surprised anyone could remain sane after an event like that. So yes, I believe Anders is justified, (for lack of a better, less punny word), in his dire hatred of the Chantry and the Circle.

Modifié par Celestina, 28 novembre 2011 - 03:32 .

[nirvana6794]

I'm paraphrasing something I read the other day that's relevent to the current discussion:
Anders has slept around not because he was some sort of fun-loving **** who enjoyed it, but he did it because he was lonely and wanted someone to like him, no matter what it took. He felt like it was worth keeping up his ****ty reputation because it made people want to be with him, even for a little while--except it also drove people away and that made him try harder to make them want him. Attention is attention and at least people wanting him is a lot like them liking him.

I mean, if you look at it like that, it actually explains a lot of how he acts toward Hawke: the way he divulges so much of himself so soon, and expresses romantic interest in Hawke so soon after he kills Karl; the way he attaches himself to him or her, regardless of how he's responded to; the way he does the whole hot-cold "I want you but you're better off without me" thing; the way he throws himself at Hawke after as little as a single flirtatious comment; the resentment and jealousy if you turn him down or romance someone else; and even forcing Hawke's hand after the bomb goes off, because he wants Hawke to be the one to put him out of his misery.  

He almost comes across as someone who regardless of how dangerous and unlikable he finds himself, he's not sure how else to make Hawke like him if he doesn't offer up every last bit of himself that he can, because he doesn't think Justice will let him offer sex in exchange for favor.

Mind you, I'm not saying I think of it this way, but it seems like a valid, reasonable interpretation of Anders's transition from who he comes across as in DAA to how he becomes in DA2.

[esper]

nirvana6794 wrote...

I'm paraphrasing something I read the other day that's relevent to the current discussion:
Anders has slept around not because he was some sort of fun-loving **** who enjoyed it, but he did it because he was lonely and wanted someone to like him, no matter what it took. He felt like it was worth keeping up his ****ty reputation because it made people want to be with him, even for a little while--except it also drove people away and that made him try harder to make them want him. Attention is attention and at least people wanting him is a lot like them liking him.

I mean, if you look at it like that, it actually explains a lot of how he acts toward Hawke: the way he divulges so much of himself so soon, and expresses romantic interest in Hawke so soon after he kills Karl; the way he attaches himself to him or her, regardless of how he's responded to; the way he does the whole hot-cold "I want you but you're better off without me" thing; the way he throws himself at Hawke after as little as a single flirtatious comment; the resentment and jealousy if you turn him down or romance someone else; and even forcing Hawke's hand after the bomb goes off, because he wants Hawke to be the one to put him out of his misery.  

He almost comes across as someone who regardless of how dangerous and unlikable he finds himself, he's not sure how else to make Hawke like him if he doesn't offer up every last bit of himself that he can, because he doesn't think Justice will let him offer sex in exchange for favor.

Mind you, I'm not saying I think of it this way, but it seems like a valid, reasonable interpretation of Anders's transition from who he comes across as in DAA to how he becomes in DA2.

I don't know. I kinda got the expression that the Fereldan Circle was pretty loose in the sexual department. We have Jowain and a priest, and the females gossiping about Cullen's crush on the mage pc and Wynne who had a child and then we have Anders. Not that I completely disagree with you saying that Anders just wanting someone to be there. He always seemed like a social person to me.

But it never grated me that Anders flirt with Hawke so soon after Karls death. First off Karl's was his first not his latest, so it was obviously to me that they were just friend now and I never do the talk to quest before I have gathered all allies so in my head some time has passed. Also, calling someone beutiful (don't rember what he says to a male) is not really heavy flirting...  Or Zevran and Isabella has just made me up me raise the bar for what dragon age characters can say to my pc before I get uncomfortable. 

[Fox In The Box]

slyborg wrote...


Anyway, I was thinking about this the other night and was wondering where Anders' anger towards the Chantry/Templars/Circle comes from. He seems to have such an overwhelming amount of anger that it is enough to change Justice into Vengeance. It almost seems like he has been the victim of blatant abuse while involved in those institutions. He rebels violently from them, runs away, seems overly flirty later in life? Just being locked up away from his family doesn't seem a big enough cause for his hatred.

Doesn't it? Have you ever been locked up away from your family? There is a reason why life in prison is one of the most serious penalites one can be sentenced to. Freedom is very important to a lot of people, and according to what we've been told about it, life in the Circle is dictated by the Chantry's rules and a general lack of privacy. Anders was told that he was cursed, his magic a sin, he saw fellow mages being so miserable they committed suicide and even contemplated doing that himself. Also, there's the year in solitary confinement and seeing someone close to him be made Tranquil. I can perfectly understand why he hates the Circle. You don't have to be beaten or raped to feel tormented.

Modifié par Fox In The Box, 28 novembre 2011 - 02:16 .

[SurelyForth]

In Awakening, if you turn Anders into the templars during his personal quest (you monster!) he'll say that "All I wanted was a choice."

It's more than imprisonment and abuse and taking mages away from their families. It's about doing these things always. Mages have no agency, no autonomy. They're taken and they're indoctrinated against themselves and everything in the system is about stripping them down to what the Chantry feels is the minimum amount of freedom they can allow a person before they become dangerously desperate.

All of this, for a crime they may commit. Like others said before, Anders was older when he was taken to the Circle. It made him not only more likely to remember his family, but to also recognize how wrong it is that he would be imprisoned for, essentially, being born. He didn't ask for power, he didn't buy it or study it or sacrifice virgins to become a mage. He was just a kid who could set things on fire without the assistance of a torch and because of that accidental ability, because of that thing he could do, he was given no choice to not be dangerous. He was given no time to prove that "Sure, I can set things of fire, but I can also heal people who have been carved up like a Feast Day ham! I can save women who might otherwise die in childbirth, and wounded soldiers who could go either way!" before he was imprisoned and, unlike Finn or Wynne or even Bethany Hawke, he realized how absolutely unfair that was and outright refused to give into the system, and he refused to see magic as anything but kinda awesome and, in an act of defiance that resulted in Maker knows how many nights washing dishes or imprisoned, chose to hate the system that would strip him of his humanity (and he has a lot of humanity) rather than hate himself for being cursed.

Modifié par SurelyForth, 28 novembre 2011 - 02:53 .

[ladyshamen]

I love this thread. People are discussing very serious issue's without getting hateful. Just a thought from an older person here. I agree with a lot of what nirvana said, to someone who feels that they are worthless or unlovable, sex is the 'next best thing'. If someone is willing to have sex with you, at least your not undesirable, and you can pretend like it's love, if only for a short time. Mages are treated like trash by a lot of people. It reminds me of a line spoken by Fenris when you pick up Merrill. 'It's hard to give away something no one wants'. That may not be word for word.(sorry)
And BTW, I'm not hating on Fenris, I like him. I just can't like him and Anders on the same play-through .

[nirvana6794]

ladyshamen wrote...

...to someone who feels that they are worthless or unlovable, sex is the 'next best thing'. If someone is willing to have sex with you, at least your not undesirable, and you can pretend like it's love, if only for a short time. Mages are treated like trash by a lot of people. It reminds me of a line spoken by Fenris when you pick up Merrill. 'It's hard to give away something no one wants'...

You're totally right.  A lot of people substitute sex for love and try to give themselves away because it's the only thing they have to barter with.  Even though the Circle has a reputation for being sexually permissive, there isn't a real notion of romantic love there because it becomes a weapon that can be used against the mages.  Sex becomes the closest thing they have to love, and emotional intimacy never enters the equation.  After all, some mages would willingly sleep with a templar if it meant they had a little more security or privleges or a shot at freedom.  I'm not saying I totally buy Anders being this way, but it makes a lot of sense.  

It strikes me because I have a very good friend who feels like the only thing he has to offer to a friendship is the fact that he's good in bed.  He had no idea how he was supposed to establish a relationship any other way, I turned him down he was suddenly without his only tool for making and keeping people interested in him.  He went from resentful and standoffish to needy and deferential to flirty to withdrawn and quiet, but it never occurred to him that I like him because he's nice and funny and an intelligent conversationalist until I told him, because he's never had someone value those aspects of him before.  

It's an interesting theory, anyway, because it's not hard to find people who feel that sex is the same as love and friendship.

[ladyofdragons]

 Another thing to remember is that Anders gets taken at an age that is a very critical time in a person's development. So not only has he spent more time tasting freedom and normal life-- imaging what he'd be when he grew up and do with his life-- than mages taken at a younger age, but he's also starting the transition from childhood to adulthood. I would be VERY curious to know if Anders started puberty before or after being taken to the Circle.

Kids at that age start wanting more autonomy from their parents. Beginning to establish more individuality. They often get stubborn and even rebellious. Wanting to prove they can be mini-adults, that they aren't kids anymore. Also seeking validation on their looks/desirability and making those first tentative and curious steps towards sexuality. Honestly I think a psychologist could have a field day analyzing the traumatic experience Anders went through and its impact on the early development of his adult self.

And I imagine that factors some into his sexual adventures as well. Or at least, potentially made it easier for him to avoid attachment to lovers in his early adult life. I think there were several reasons in play for his behavior, not all of them based on the need to fill the void of love and affection that life in the Circle seemed to deny him, or to serve as validation of overall self worth.

I DO think he has his charm. I don't think what we see of this in Awakening is him at his best, since he is just out of a year of solitary which can have a pretty fierce effect on a person's ability to socialize with others. Previous to that I think he was quite good at using his charms to get what he wanted/needed. I think it became one of the few survival tools he had, both inside the Circle and especially out-- when he needed a warm bed, a meal, or a place to hide. 

But beyond that, and most of all, I think Anders indulges in sex because his philosophy is to live life as best he can, the fullest he can, each day that he can, one after another, because he never knows what tomorrow will bring. This never really changes about Anders, its only his values that do. He even states that he was "selfish" in his younger days, lamenting to Isabela that sometimes he misses it, because life was simple then. He just strikes me as very open and matter-of-fact about sex, including just enjoying it, casual or otherwise. I don't see him having any shame in the actual frequency or promiscuity of that time, if he has regrets, I think they center around those early values-- the realization that he was only out to satisfy a multitude of his own self interests, and was often young and foolhardy in the process.

His friendship with Justice changed all of that of course, forcing himself to look hard at his life and his priorities, and then being a constant presence to enforce them. In DA2, that charm of his has long since been tarnished and jaded along with the person himself, but I like to think that there are rare moments when he still says exactly the right thing, and only for Hawke.
That's how I see it, anyway. 

As a note-- I don't use "promiscuity" here as negative term. I have no issue in general with the behavior as long as there is proper consideration for safety and respect for any/all parties. And as a note-- sexual promiscuity is not an uncommon psychological coping mechanism for rape victims... which does make me wonder a little bit.

Modifié par ladyofdragons, 28 novembre 2011 - 07:06 .

[slyborg]

He just seems not to handle the situation of being imprisoned less than everyone else. Few of the other NPC mages in the game feel so strongly. There have to be other mages whose abilities manifested later in life and thus remember parts of their former life. There is also the question of how Anders being from Anderfels, ended up in the Ferelden Circle. On the map of Thedas, Anderfels are quite far away. Who knows!? Anders fits perfectly into that "He's broken and I want to fix him" stereotype.

[ladyofdragons]

slyborg wrote...

He just seems not to handle the situation of being imprisoned less than everyone else. Few of the other NPC mages in the game feel so strongly. There have to be other mages whose abilities manifested later in life and thus remember parts of their former life. There is also the question of how Anders being from Anderfels, ended up in the Ferelden Circle. On the map of Thedas, Anderfels are quite far away. Who knows!? Anders fits perfectly into that "He's broken and I want to fix him" stereotype.

I KNOW! And I can't stop playing with the pieces... >___> He's so ponderific.

[BevH]

slyborg wrote...

He just seems not to handle the situation of being imprisoned less than everyone else. Few of the other NPC mages in the game feel so strongly. There have to be other mages whose abilities manifested later in life and thus remember parts of their former life. There is also the question of how Anders being from Anderfels, ended up in the Ferelden Circle. On the map of Thedas, Anderfels are quite far away. Who knows!? Anders fits perfectly into that "He's broken and I want to fix him" stereotype.

I asked this question myself a while ago. The replies I got were interesting. I think the general feeling is that his parents are from the Anderfels while Anders, himself, was born in Ferelden. I don't entirely buy that since I think I read somewhere, or there's a banter at some point, where Anders says he got the name from the templars bringing him to the circle. I tend to agree that he was brought to the Ferelden circle because they needed new/fresh talent.

We do see glimpses of the old Anders at a few points in DA2. One of the most important things he says, that's relevant to this conversation, is, "The Ferelden circle is more fun... everyone was kissing everyone!"

As for me, I haven't really come to any conclusions about Anders. I'm still having a problem figuring out his sexuality. Is he truly pansexual? I have my doubts, since the male and female romances begin so differently. The most telling is the female track because we don't know anything about Anders' relationship with Karl beyond them being friends, where on the male track we are told that they were definitely lovers. Was the actual emotion involved? Anders tells Hawke that love was a tool the templars could use and was something he was afraid of.

Sorry for the random unconnected thought. Just got home from work and the brain's not functioning very well...

[nirvana6794]

esper wrote...

...But it never grated me that Anders flirt with Hawke so soon after Karls death. First off Karl's was his first not his latest, so it was obviously to me that they were just friend now and I never do the talk to quest before I have gathered all allies so in my head some time has passed. Also, calling someone beutiful (don't rember what he says to a male) is not really heavy flirting...  Or Zevran and Isabella has just made me up me raise the bar for what dragon age characters can say to my pc before I get uncomfortable. 

Even though he and Karl hadn't been together for years, they were still close enough to stay in correspondance, which means Anders is still in mourning at that point, because that conversation is the first after he's recruited.  You can initiate it without leaving the clinic after Tranquility ends. When you play as M!Hawke, Anders pretty much invites you to think of him in a sexual way if you're even remotely responsive to his advances after he tells you his "first" was Karl ("I'll let you think about that.  In as much detail as you fancy."), which is at least mildly inappropriate considering he starts that conversation by mentioning that he and Hawke "just met and I feel like I already know you."  

It didn't make me uncomfortable because Anders is expressing interest in Hawke, but it did make me uneasy because of how he approaches it.  It doesn't seem healthy to go from noting familiarity in a relative stranger to inviting that stranger to think about you having sex with someone you just had to kill in front of that same stranger all in one chat.

It sort of lends credibility to the idea of him not having a totally normal view of sex, even casual flings, because of how he offers himself up to a male Hawke.  If anything, it has something to do with the way he was socialized in the Circle, because he mentions the apprentices found ways to make life there bearable, which can be inferred to mean they used sex as a coping mechanism because of other dialogues and lines from other characters as far back as DAO.  Either way, it's all kinds of weird.

[SurelyForth]

I don't know, I think so much of Act 1 Anders is driven by two purposes: establishing him as someone who is, and who always has been, pansexual for M!Hawke and establishing him as A Tragic Romance for F!Hawke. Since there's only two conversations you can have after Tranquility, there's not a whole lot else that can get done, especially if you initiate the second conversation immediately. I think quite a bit of time (at least a few weeks) is expected to have passed between Tranquility and the part where he's encouraging Hawke to think of him in sexy ways or he's worried about breaking Hawke's heart.

[Fox In The Box]

slyborg wrote...

 There is also the question of how Anders being from Anderfels, ended up in the Ferelden Circle. On the map of Thedas, Anderfels are quite far away. Who knows!?

I'm under the impression that it isn't unusual for mages to be moved between Circle buildings, if it's deemed necessary - Karl, for instance, was a mage in the Fereldan Circle, but was later sent to Kirkwall because they needed new talent. As for Anders, perhaps there simply wasn't room for more apprentices in the Anderfels, and so he ended up in Ferelden. That would also explain why an Amell warden was in Ferelden instead of Kirkwall.

[esper]

Yeah, I also thinks that it is because I mentally add a week a two between the conversations. I usally recruit Anders first to get as much Anders as possible and then I do every other recruitment and Aveline's 1 act quest which usally means that mentally I add that at the least two weeks has passed.

[esper]

Fox In The Box wrote...

slyborg wrote...

 There is also the question of how Anders being from Anderfels, ended up in the Ferelden Circle. On the map of Thedas, Anderfels are quite far away. Who knows!?

I'm under the impression that it isn't unusual for mages to be moved between Circle buildings, if it's deemed necessary - Karl, for instance, was a mage in the Fereldan Circle, but was later sent to Kirkwall because they needed new talent. As for Anders, perhaps there simply wasn't room for more apprentices in the Anderfels, and so he ended up in Ferelden. That would also explain why an Amell warden was in Ferelden instead of Kirkwall.

Actually Anders is fereldan. It is his parents that were from Andersfeld and moved to Fereldan for some reason. But yeah, mages get moved around. Karl was Fereldan and was moved to Kirkwall.

[BevH]

SurelyForth wrote...

I don't know, I think so much of Act 1 Anders is driven by two purposes: establishing him as someone who is, and who always has been, pansexual for M!Hawke and establishing him as A Tragic Romance for F!Hawke. Since there's only two conversations you can have after Tranquility, there's not a whole lot else that can get done, especially if you initiate the second conversation immediately. I think quite a bit of time (at least a few weeks) is expected to have passed between Tranquility and the part where he's encouraging Hawke to think of him in sexy ways or he's worried about breaking Hawke's heart.

But if he was truly pansexual, wouldn't the conversation be the same for both male and female? I know that our characters aren't supposed to know what would happen if they were the other gender. But since I, as the player, do know both conversations exist, I tend to think that Anders is bisexual. I doesn't really bother me either way, but I tend to be a bit anal about details.

[esper]

BevH wrote...

SurelyForth wrote...

I don't know, I think so much of Act 1 Anders is driven by two purposes: establishing him as someone who is, and who always has been, pansexual for M!Hawke and establishing him as A Tragic Romance for F!Hawke. Since there's only two conversations you can have after Tranquility, there's not a whole lot else that can get done, especially if you initiate the second conversation immediately. I think quite a bit of time (at least a few weeks) is expected to have passed between Tranquility and the part where he's encouraging Hawke to think of him in sexy ways or he's worried about breaking Hawke's heart.

But if he was truly pansexual, wouldn't the conversation be the same for both male and female? I know that our characters aren't supposed to know what would happen if they were the other gender. But since I, as the player, do know both conversations exist, I tend to think that Anders is bisexual. I doesn't really bother me either way, but I tend to be a bit anal about details.

I don't want to get into a who does Anders loves most discussing, but as a female Hawke player I got the expression that Anders has a much larger protect instinct when it comes to femHawke. I think that perhaps that female rouge who may have sold him out to Rylock in DA:A, sort of made him think that women gets hurt worse?

[Nyreen]

slyborg wrote...

He just seems not to handle the situation of being imprisoned less than everyone else. Few of the other NPC mages in the game feel so strongly. There have to be other mages whose abilities manifested later in life and thus remember parts of their former life. There is also the question of how Anders being from Anderfels, ended up in the Ferelden Circle. On the map of Thedas, Anderfels are quite far away. Who knows!? Anders fits perfectly into that "He's broken and I want to fix him" stereotype.

YES! This reminds me of an article I read once where in one study it proved that women were more likely to be attracted to a clinically depressed man, in part because they're more in touch with their emotions and more sensitive and vulnerable. Weird, but true.

One reason I found Anders' relationship with Hawke so interesting to experience is that usually I'm the one who needs supporting. My anxiety makes it really difficult around men for me to crawl out of my shell. It was my first boyfriend, (in college when I actually started talking to men) who convinced me to enjoy myself more and saw my emotional baggage as not a burden, but something he wanted to work through with me.

Anyway, so as I was romancing Anders I had mixed feelings at first. Considering all the crap Hawke puts up with, I thought she deserved some support in the relationship and felt it was lacking. However after the experience with our mother, when Anders comforts Hawke - that moment really touched me and I quickly changed my mind. Now I knew the feeling was was reciprocated, I came to love Hawke's protective role. It felt so comforting knowing Hawke was doing her best to save him from himself. Out of all the romances, I feel that Anders needs Hawke's love the most. He needs someone to love, to take care of him, give him a warm bed and a decent meal. I loved having him move in, and giving him that key for quick escape was a sweet touch.

Oh god, I really need to get over my love of fictional men!

Modifié par Celestina, 28 novembre 2011 - 10:37 .

[ladyofdragons]

esper wrote...

BevH wrote...

SurelyForth wrote...

I don't know, I think so much of Act 1 Anders is driven by two purposes: establishing him as someone who is, and who always has been, pansexual for M!Hawke and establishing him as A Tragic Romance for F!Hawke. Since there's only two conversations you can have after Tranquility, there's not a whole lot else that can get done, especially if you initiate the second conversation immediately. I think quite a bit of time (at least a few weeks) is expected to have passed between Tranquility and the part where he's encouraging Hawke to think of him in sexy ways or he's worried about breaking Hawke's heart.

But if he was truly pansexual, wouldn't the conversation be the same for both male and female? I know that our characters aren't supposed to know what would happen if they were the other gender. But since I, as the player, do know both conversations exist, I tend to think that Anders is bisexual. I doesn't really bother me either way, but I tend to be a bit anal about details.

I don't want to get into a who does Anders loves most discussing, but as a female Hawke player I got the expression that Anders has a much larger protect instinct when it comes to femHawke. I think that perhaps that female rouge who may have sold him out to Rylock in DA:A, sort of made him think that women gets hurt worse?

I suppose the question is: If the romances are not identical does that invalidate the pansexuality? I'm not sure that it does, since men and women aren't identical after all. It's possible to love and be attracted to different things about both of them, but still do so in equal measure.

Frankly, I always took Anders's protective response to F!Hawke for the classic and instinctive response to protecting of the childbearing half of the species. No matter how strong women get, I think that will always be a reflexive response.

[esper]

Actually I think Fenris is more a broke and fix it type, because... he actually can be fixed. Anders makes it very clear that he is unfixable and fits more into the 'you can't save a person who don't want to be saved' category. I must admit that is what I like about Anders romance. You either accept him for the mess he is or you end up heart broken.
That said Hawke is Anders pillar of strenght, but in a non-fixing way. Hawke simply is there to love Anders (untill the day they dies;-)) and keep him in in touch with his humanity.
Fenris on the other hand gets 'fixed' and learns to move on in his romance.

[esper]

ladyofdragons wrote...

esper wrote...

BevH wrote...

SurelyForth wrote...

I don't know, I think so much of Act 1 Anders is driven by two purposes: establishing him as someone who is, and who always has been, pansexual for M!Hawke and establishing him as A Tragic Romance for F!Hawke. Since there's only two conversations you can have after Tranquility, there's not a whole lot else that can get done, especially if you initiate the second conversation immediately. I think quite a bit of time (at least a few weeks) is expected to have passed between Tranquility and the part where he's encouraging Hawke to think of him in sexy ways or he's worried about breaking Hawke's heart.

But if he was truly pansexual, wouldn't the conversation be the same for both male and female? I know that our characters aren't supposed to know what would happen if they were the other gender. But since I, as the player, do know both conversations exist, I tend to think that Anders is bisexual. I doesn't really bother me either way, but I tend to be a bit anal about details.

I don't want to get into a who does Anders loves most discussing, but as a female Hawke player I got the expression that Anders has a much larger protect instinct when it comes to femHawke. I think that perhaps that female rouge who may have sold him out to Rylock in DA:A, sort of made him think that women gets hurt worse?

I suppose the question is: If the romances are not identical does that invalidate the pansexuality? I'm not sure that it does, since men and women aren't identical after all. It's possible to love and be attracted to different things about both of them, but still do so in equal measure.

Frankly, I always took Anders's protective response to F!Hawke for the classic and instinctive response to protecting of the childbearing half of the species. No matter how strong women get, I think that will always be a reflexive response.

Well... I was trying to come up with something other than he is the typcical male in that regard. All though that thought has crossed my mind. He is just being a man just sound as such an... easy explanation.

Since I am hardly adventoures in my own sexlife when is people being truely pansexual and when are they 'only' bisexual? Where is the fine line between the two.

[ladyofdragons]

slyborg wrote...

He just seems not to handle the situation of being imprisoned less than everyone else. Few of the other NPC mages in the game feel so strongly. There have to be other mages whose abilities manifested later in life and thus remember parts of their former life. There is also the question of how Anders being from Anderfels, ended up in the Ferelden Circle. On the map of Thedas, Anderfels are quite far away. Who knows!? Anders fits perfectly into that "He's broken and I want to fix him" stereotype.

Another thought... It could be as simple as this: There have been other mages that developed their gift late and went through similar adjustment periods as Anders. And maybe they have similar levels of hatred for the Circles and its affiliates. We just have never heard about them because their stories never amounted to anything. Justice was really the catalyst that gave Anders the motivation to do something about the cause on a greater scale, and the reason why he is-- now-- so well known. 

[BevH]

esper wrote...
I don't want to get into a who does Anders loves most discussing, but as a female Hawke player I got the expression that Anders has a much larger protect instinct when it comes to femHawke. I think that perhaps that female rouge who may have sold him out to Rylock in DA:A, sort of made him think that women gets hurt worse?

I'm not trying to fan the flames here, I simply thought that if Anders is pansexual, his approach to either gender would be the same. However, on thinking on it a bit more, perhaps Anders feels the need to explain himself to m!Hawke where he wouldn't feel so inclined to f!Hawke.