57019 réponses à ce sujet

[Deviant Ingredient]

Agreed to all. Anders is a very profound and very real character. Some people just don't like realism in their games I guess.

[Gyrefalcon]

Good to hear, Nirvana. I am rather tired of anything from shows and movies to video games that aren't conforming to what everyone else is doing getting treated like junk. Dragon Age 2 had its technical difficulties but the writing was spot on. I do hope they address a lot of the issues that held this game back from getting its rightful place next to Skyrim! Dragon Age 3 ftw!

[CrimsonZephyr]

esper wrote...

Blacklash93 wrote...

Got the new GameInformer.

Not only was DA2 on the "Most Disappointing" list, Anders was on the list of "Biggest Dorks". They called him a whiner and his character an utter failure.

Not my words, for the record.

And there went my list belief in the integrity of game critics. I will never listen to a review again in my life since da2 have proved that they review with whatever the current hype is.

Anders is the most beliaveable and nuanced character ever presented in a good example of that you can't save people who don't want to be saved.

You can't save them, but you can drive an axe through their skull before they become a threat. Anders isn't quite so realistic at all. No one would tolerate his nutbag antics for seven years, possibly endangering a city full of the innocent and uninvolved, and fewer emotionally healthy people would actually get into a relationship with him. He's possibly the least nuanced character because one plot point forms the entire basis for his character.

Modifié par CrimsonZephyr, 15 janvier 2012 - 09:19 .

[esper]

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

esper wrote...

Blacklash93 wrote...

Got the new GameInformer.

Not only was DA2 on the "Most Disappointing" list, Anders was on the list of "Biggest Dorks". They called him a whiner and his character an utter failure.

Not my words, for the record.

And there went my list belief in the integrity of game critics. I will never listen to a review again in my life since da2 have proved that they review with whatever the current hype is.

Anders is the most beliaveable and nuanced character ever presented in a good example of that you can't save people who don't want to be saved.

You can't save them, but you can drive an axe through their skull before they become a threat. Anders isn't quite so realistic at all. No one would tolerate his nutbag antics for seven years, possibly endangering a city full of the innocent and uninvolved, and fewer emotionally healthy people would actually get into a relationship with him. He's possibly the least nuanced character because one plot point forms the entire basis for his character.

No, he is a quite good representation of a desperate person who has been through hell. And if you soloution to emotiannally troubled persons is to drive an axe through their skull then I would say that you have a problem. History is full of emotional and idealistic people doing extreme thing because they are at their wits end. 

Yes one plot point form his character, but he is a wildly different person on rival and friendship. In fact he is one of the companions that change the most on the rival/friendship system. 

[Melca36]

BevH wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

You are entitled to believe that  but its a known fact that its a glitch.

It was discussed way back when this thread started.

Its even mention on several past threads that list bugs.

You have the option of having Anders leave the Party in Dissent.

That scene is only supposed to come up if Anders has left the party. Its a glitch pure and simple.

Sorry, I didn't state that properly.
What I actually meant was I can see that it's a glitch/bug and the scene shouldn't happen if the romance is still active.

Edit for ToP:

Actually I am the one who should apologize. I didn't mean to sound so snarky in my post.

I definitely agree the glitch is appropriate if you rival him.  But if you have not rivaled him, its not supposed to be there.

There was post many many months ago that said, that scene was not supposed to be there if you have not rivaled him or had him leave the party. I wish I could find it but there is just too many to posts to go through and I am recovering from being sick otherwise I would look for it.

Again, I apologize for my snarkiness.  Peace.

[nirvana6794]

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

You can't save them, but you can drive an axe through their skull before they become a threat. Anders isn't quite so realistic at all. No one would tolerate his nutbag antics for seven years, possibly endangering a city full of the innocent and uninvolved, and fewer emotionally healthy people would actually get into a relationship with him. He's possibly the least nuanced character because one plot point forms the entire basis for his character.

 

Congrats, guy, you totally missed the point of his character.  

[CuriousArtemis]

You ever notice that the people who are MOST angry with Anders for blowing up the Chantry and killing innocents are the ones who use the most violent language and who advocate killing him in cold blood.

I just find that interesting.

[nirvana6794]

motomotogirl wrote...

You ever notice that the people who are MOST angry with Anders for blowing up the Chantry and killing innocents are the ones who use the most violent language and who advocate killing him in cold blood.

I just find that interesting.

Yet again, I wish I could "like" posts here.  You're right, though.  It's actually kind of funny, in an ironic sort of way.

[CrimsonZephyr]

esper wrote...

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

esper wrote...

Blacklash93 wrote...

Got the new GameInformer.

Not only was DA2 on the "Most Disappointing" list, Anders was on the list of "Biggest Dorks". They called him a whiner and his character an utter failure.

Not my words, for the record.

And there went my list belief in the integrity of game critics. I will never listen to a review again in my life since da2 have proved that they review with whatever the current hype is.

Anders is the most beliaveable and nuanced character ever presented in a good example of that you can't save people who don't want to be saved.

You can't save them, but you can drive an axe through their skull before they become a threat. Anders isn't quite so realistic at all. No one would tolerate his nutbag antics for seven years, possibly endangering a city full of the innocent and uninvolved, and fewer emotionally healthy people would actually get into a relationship with him. He's possibly the least nuanced character because one plot point forms the entire basis for his character.

No, he is a quite good representation of a desperate person who has been through hell. And if you soloution to emotiannally troubled persons is to drive an axe through their skull then I would say that you have a problem. History is full of emotional and idealistic people doing extreme thing because they are at their wits end. 

Yes one plot point form his character, but he is a wildly different person on rival and friendship. In fact he is one of the companions that change the most on the rival/friendship system. 

I'm in favor of extreme moderation and realism. Cynics and idealists both should be castrated, decapitated, defenestrated, and obliterated. He is a hot blooded idiot and people like him should be purged for the good of all.

[nirvana6794]

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

I'm in favor of extreme moderation and realism. Cynics and idealists both should be castrated, decapitated, defenestrated, and obliterated. He is a hot blooded idiot and people like him should be purged for the good of all.

So basically you want to wipe out everyone, because everyone is cynical and everyone's idealistic.  Awesome.  Bully for you, because you come across as extremely cynical.

If you really feel as strongly hateful, at least convey it in an intelligent and mature manner, because you'll find no friends here; this is a pro-Anders thread, and you won't get any support for your views.  Before you go and start accusing us of being "fangirls" and blind to his faults, bear in mind that we don't all agree with Anders and what he did, and many of us sided with the templars and killed him without any remorse, but we are supportive of his character.  

http://katiebour.tumblr.com/post/9352221810/elleblr-confuzzeldmind-elleblr  

I'm not trying to make you change your views, but you should follow that link and read the attached essay to see where Anders is coming from when he sets off the bomb in the chantry, then come back and express your thoughts in an intelligent and mature manner, because right now you're trolling, and are begging to be reported to the mods.  

You have pretty much any other Anders thread on the BSN to bash him on, and you'll be welcomed in them, but certainly not here, not if you can't present yourself like an adult and behave like one.  Or maybe you should seek professional counselling, because that level of aggression belies a serious problem you should get help with.

Modifié par nirvana6794, 16 janvier 2012 - 03:56 .

[Ryzaki]

motomotogirl wrote...

You ever notice that the people who are MOST angry with Anders for blowing up the Chantry and killing innocents are the ones who use the most violent language and who advocate killing him in cold blood.

I just find that interesting.

Killing him in cold blood?

Most I've seen just want to be able to stab him earlier and call it a day.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 16 janvier 2012 - 04:25 .

[CuriousArtemis]

Ryzaki wrote...

Killing him in cold blood?

Most I've seen just want to be able to stab him earlier and call it a day.

Er, how is that any different?

It's still in cold blood.

And it's even worse than killing him when the game gives you a chance, because killing him before that literally would be murder, since he didn't do anything previous to this that would warrant murdering him (in cold blood).

Not that killing him after the chantry is blown up isn't murder.  Some just consider it justifiable murder.  Vigilanty justice ... ahem, which Aveline, by the way, seemed so against when it was the elves who'd run off and joined the Qun.

Modifié par motomotogirl, 16 janvier 2012 - 04:42 .

[Ryzaki]

motomotogirl wrote...
Er, how is that any different?

It's still in cold blood.

And it's even worse than killing him when the game gives you a chance, because killing him before that literally would be murder, since he didn't do anything previous to this that would warrant murdering him (in cold blood).

Not that killing him after the chantry is blown up isn't murder.  Some just consider it justifiable murder.  Vigilanty justice ... ahem, which Aveline, by the way, seemed so against when it was the elves who'd run off and joined the Qun.

I don't see killing someone who is planning to blow up a building murdering them in cold blood. Especially not when this person could've skewered an innocent girl not too long ago. (ideally I'd been able to attack him then but the game only lets Hawke send him away). If they were killing Anders for no reason then sure, but the whole attitude behind it is to kill him to prevent the Chantry from being blown up. (unless they want to kill him earlier for his betrayal before it even happened. Then that's a bit odd).

It's metagamey. Not cold blood.

As for Aveline. She's a hypocrite like most people when it comes to stranges vs people close to them. It's not that strange.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 16 janvier 2012 - 04:51 .

[CrimsonZephyr]

Anders should have been executed as an abomination. It would have been the genre savvy thing to do. When someone accosts you with a super-deep demonic voice, they're not commenting on the weather.

[Melca36]

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

Anders should have been executed as an abomination. It would have been the genre savvy thing to do. When someone accosts you with a super-deep demonic voice, they're not commenting on the weather.

Why are you trolling a thread that is Pro Anders?

[esper]

Ryzaki wrote...

motomotogirl wrote...
Er, how is that any different?

It's still in cold blood.

And it's even worse than killing him when the game gives you a chance, because killing him before that literally would be murder, since he didn't do anything previous to this that would warrant murdering him (in cold blood).

Not that killing him after the chantry is blown up isn't murder.  Some just consider it justifiable murder.  Vigilanty justice ... ahem, which Aveline, by the way, seemed so against when it was the elves who'd run off and joined the Qun.

I don't see killing someone who is planning to blow up a building murdering them in cold blood. Especially not when this person could've skewered an innocent girl not too long ago. (ideally I'd been able to attack him then but the game only lets Hawke send him away). If they were killing Anders for no reason then sure, but the whole attitude behind it is to kill him to prevent the Chantry from being blown up. (unless they want to kill him earlier for his betrayal before it even happened. Then that's a bit odd).

It's metagamey. Not cold blood.

As for Aveline. She's a hypocrite like most people when it comes to stranges vs people close to them. It's not that strange.

The thing that bother me most with Aveline is not that she is a hypocrite, but that the game doesn't acknowlegde it. And present her as and uncorrupt guard when she is the exact opposite.

There is a whole lot of difference in killing Anders from metagame knowlegde / because he is acting super supicious in act 3, and just because you didn't like his character.

Honestely sometimes I worry about people here. A lot seems to have a bad case of axe-crazy when it comes to game characters, and I hope that it is just because they need to have some aggression out because the reason people sometimes wants to kill people or which people they want to kill is scary.

[esper]

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

Anders should have been executed as an abomination. It would have been the genre savvy thing to do. When someone accosts you with a super-deep demonic voice, they're not commenting on the weather.

Only genre-sawvy person is Varric and perhaps Isabella a litte and he likes Anders. Also genre-savy is not realistic at all since real life very seldom to never form as a story, espcially fantasy stories set in a timeline way beefore ours.

[CuriousArtemis]

I have no idea what genre savvy means...

If you killed Anders to prevent him from blowing up the Chantry, I believe that would still be considered murder; here in the US, not sure if it would be murder in the first, second, or third degree; I'm not a lawyer

Now Hawke does have the chance to go around basically murdering people for "good" (vigilante justice, technically still murder, and as it's premeditated, it's cold blood in my book). But most of the time s/he is attacked first and then defends him/herself.

Anyway, it is weird to come into the Anders thread and try to advocate killing him and just how awesome that is, so I'm just going to stop lol

Btw, anyone have a fan video that DOESN'T end in Anders' death? I saw one the other day that almost had me favoriting it, but then the ending....! *weep*

[esper]

motomotogirl wrote...

I have no idea what genre savvy means...

If you killed Anders to prevent him from blowing up the Chantry, I believe that would still be considered murder; here in the US, not sure if it would be murder in the first, second, or third degree; I'm not a lawyer

Now Hawke does have the chance to go around basically murdering people for "good" (vigilante justice, technically still murder, and as it's premeditated, it's cold blood in my book). But most of the time s/he is attacked first and then defends him/herself.

Anyway, it is weird to come into the Anders thread and try to advocate killing him and just how awesome that is, so I'm just going to stop lol

Btw, anyone have a fan video that DOESN'T end in Anders' death? I saw one the other day that almost had me favoriting it, but then the ending....! *weep*

I agree with it being murder, but Hawke is (no matter what you choose in the prolog) basically a mercenary. At least in act 1. And I would never kill him, but from a meta-point of view I understand why some wants to.

There is one with Heavy in you arms and one with Listen to your heart. Those are HawkexAnders videos though. (I really like the one with heavy in your arms and I don't rember Anders dying there.)

[Ryzaki]

esper wrote...
The thing that bother me most with Aveline is not that she is a hypocrite, but that the game doesn't acknowlegde it. And present her as and uncorrupt guard when she is the exact opposite.

There is a whole lot of difference in killing Anders from metagame knowlegde / because he is acting super supicious in act 3, and just because you didn't like his character.

Honestely sometimes I worry about people here. A lot seems to have a bad case of axe-crazy when it comes to game characters, and I hope that it is just because they need to have some aggression out because the reason people sometimes wants to kill people or which people they want to kill is scary.

Yeah it's a bit odd. Hawke can't even call her out on it either.


There is.

As long as they don't act that aggression out on real people I don't care. Not much different than other means of releasing pent up aggression.

Re killing him as murder: Personally my Hawke sees it as an execution of a dangerous criminal. But that's a YMMV situation.

[esper]

Ryzaki wrote...

esper wrote...
The thing that bother me most with Aveline is not that she is a hypocrite, but that the game doesn't acknowlegde it. And present her as and uncorrupt guard when she is the exact opposite.

There is a whole lot of difference in killing Anders from metagame knowlegde / because he is acting super supicious in act 3, and just because you didn't like his character.

Honestely sometimes I worry about people here. A lot seems to have a bad case of axe-crazy when it comes to game characters, and I hope that it is just because they need to have some aggression out because the reason people sometimes wants to kill people or which people they want to kill is scary.

Yeah it's a bit odd. Hawke can't even call her out on it either.


There is.

As long as they don't act that aggression out on real people I don't care. Not much different than other means of releasing pent up aggression.

Re killing him as murder: Personally my Hawke sees it as an execution of a dangerous criminal. But that's a YMMV situation.

I could rattle on in an etenerty about how much I have graudually lost respect for Aveline as I have played through the game.

True, as long as nobody killing anybody in real life there is no problem. Wouldn't mind if somebody (not you) was a little politer on the interent as well. But I am no saint and sometimes I slip up when I get angry. 

I am not really my Hawke. My Hawke would do things I don't aprove off, but if I ever made one that could/would kill Anders they would feel it justified else they wouldn't do it (Exept if they were like Rival who didn't even tried to justify her decision). From an objective point of view I don't feel that neither Hawke nor us player ever could be an objective judge and thus I consider it murder. (That said I consider dead penality murder too, but I do think that we have had a discussion over the legal terms/sematics before and we are not going to agree there) 

[Ryzaki]

esper wrote...
I could rattle on in an etenerty about how much I have graudually lost respect for Aveline as I have played through the game.

True, as long as nobody killing anybody in real life there is no problem. Wouldn't mind if somebody (not you) was a little politer on the interent as well. But I am no saint and sometimes I slip up when I get angry. 

I am not really my Hawke. My Hawke would do things I don't aprove off, but if I ever made one that could/would kill Anders they would feel it justified else they wouldn't do it (Exept if they were like Rival who didn't even tried to justify her decision). From an objective point of view I don't feel that neither Hawke nor us player ever could be an objective judge and thus I consider it murder. (That said I consider dead penality murder too, but I do think that we have had a discussion over the legal terms/sematics before and we are not going to agree there) 

LOL

True. The internet tends to remove common decency filters.

Yup we're not gonna agree. I'm not my Hawke either. I quite frankly would've went "Yeah...bye." the second Anders said he was an abomination. Though I can see Hawke in a few scenarios being objective. Mostly the Hawkes that left him to his own devices and weren't friends/helped him.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 16 janvier 2012 - 04:14 .

[esper]

I don't know what I would done if I was Hawke... Properbly just leave Kirkwall when the family ran out of money. Definitly not venture down into a grotto filled with the monsters that killed my little sister.

[CrimsonZephyr]

esper wrote...

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

Anders should have been executed as an abomination. It would have been the genre savvy thing to do. When someone accosts you with a super-deep demonic voice, they're not commenting on the weather.

Only genre-sawvy person is Varric and perhaps Isabella a litte and he likes Anders. Also genre-savy is not realistic at all since real life very seldom to never form as a story, espcially fantasy stories set in a timeline way beefore ours.

Hawke has grown up with mages in his family, who doubtlessly told him what an abomination is. Hence why seeing a guy have a freak out, start talking with a demon voice, and threaten him with a spear and not responding to that by putting a rabid animal down is just stupid. All Hawke really needed were some maps of the Deep Roads, not his personal expertise.

Modifié par CrimsonZephyr, 16 janvier 2012 - 04:50 .

[esper]

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

esper wrote...

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

Anders should have been executed as an abomination. It would have been the genre savvy thing to do. When someone accosts you with a super-deep demonic voice, they're not commenting on the weather.

Only genre-sawvy person is Varric and perhaps Isabella a litte and he likes Anders. Also genre-savy is not realistic at all since real life very seldom to never form as a story, espcially fantasy stories set in a timeline way beefore ours.

Hawke has grown up with mages in his family, who doubtlessly told him what an abomination is. Hence why seeing a guy have a freak out, start talking with a demon voice, and threaten him with a spear and not responding to that by putting a rabid animal down is just stupid. All Hawke really needed were some maps of the Deep Roads, not his personal expertise.

My Hawke tend to value a grey warden when they are going into the deep road.
And also that is not being genre-savey.  Beieng genre-savey means knowing what often happens in story like the one the character participate in. Hawke does not so any sight of that.

Edit. Defintion of genre-savey aside, my hawkes are mostely (even if my main lost faith) raised by the chantrys defintion of spirit/demons which means that they think of a spirit as a good thing and don't really connect justice with being a demon untill act 2. even the one who rivalled him. My canon Hawke still don't think of Justice as a demon in act 3.

Modifié par esper, 16 janvier 2012 - 04:59 .