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[Dreaming-in-Shadow]

If everything is the "Will of the Maker", Sebastian, Elthina, then quite frankly the Maker is an abusive f*ck of an absentee (as Morrigan said) father and the biggest troll in existence.

"You were given to the Circle. Hawke was driving away from home by the darkspawn. I was given to the Chantry. None of us are free." True, I can see his point. Everybody has restrictions, and things they want to change for the better.
However, those petty little restrictions are things that most mages probably wish they could have, but never will, since they live in makeshift cages (gilded or no) under the thumb of Templars (which, as the Calling pointed out, make life miserable for all of the mages. Spitting on ten-year olds. Lovely.)
He's also irreversibly possessed by a corrupted spirit of Justice (poor Justice, I liked you with your child-like views of the world) so let's talk about freedom again, shall we?
And Hawke and his/her family were fated to live in constant fear of the Templars, never settling because there were mages in their family.

“I know you and Anders... it’s not my place, but
be careful, he’s a dangerous man and selfish. Whatever he promised you, don’t
think he’ll ever put you above his own needs.”

My Hawke's opinion:
"Well, it's a pity he didn't tell me that- Oh, wait, he did tell me that he was dangerous and that he would hurt me. He spent three years trying to stay away from me before giving in (the foxy, irresistable PC wench/man-wench that I am! XD).

He has never made any attempt to hide that his cause comes before anything else, including me.

And while we're at it, Sebastian, he's a human. So yes, yes he is selfish."

[Cantina]

Nilfalasiel wrote...

And yeah, that "none of us are free" convo is just... I'm thinking Anders doesn't even bother replying because he's too busy facepalming at that point. Probably figured that Seb is a lost cause.

Ok, now we need a picture of Anders facepalming, LOL!

Sebastian is an ass....plain and simple.

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

If everything is the "Will of
the Maker", Sebastian, Elthina, then quite frankly the Maker is an
abusive f*ck of an absentee (as Morrigan said) father and the biggest
troll in existence.

"You were given to the Circle. Hawke was
driving away from home by the darkspawn. I was given to the Chantry.
None of us are free." True, I can see his point. Everybody has
restrictions, and things they want to change for the better.
However,
those petty little restrictions are things that most mages probably
wish they could have, but never will, since they live in makeshift cages
(gilded or no) under the thumb of Templars (which, as the Calling
pointed out, make life miserable for all of the mages. Spitting on
ten-year olds. Lovely.)
He's also irreversibly possessed by a
corrupted spirit of Justice (poor Justice, I liked you with your
child-like views of the world) so let's talk about freedom again, shall
we?
And Hawke and his/her family were fated to live in constant fear
of the Templars, never settling because there were mages in their
family.

“I know you and Anders... it’s not my place, but
be careful, he’s a dangerous man and selfish. Whatever he promised you, don’t
think he’ll ever put you above his own needs.”

My Hawke's opinion:
"Well,
it's a pity he didn't tell me that- Oh, wait, he did tell me that he
was dangerous and that he would hurt me. He spent three years trying to
stay away from me before giving in (the foxy, irresistable PC
wench/man-wench that I am! XD).

He has never made any attempt to hide that his cause comes before anything else, including me.

And while we're at it, Sebastian, he's a human. So yes, yes he is selfish."

<dies laughing> Oh man that is too funny.

I only have Sebass in my party when its needed for a quest of his. Will be fighting skeletons and when he kills one he yells "I will pray for you!"

Um...Sebass...its a skeleton...STF and keep killing crap. .


BTW....is it me or does Sebastian look like Ken from the Barbie collection

Modifié par Cantina, 22 mars 2012 - 11:39 .

[Alessa]

Alexa_ wrote...

Reunion ...

SWEET     

[Nilfalasiel]

Cantina wrote...

BTW....is it me or does Sebastian look like Ken from the Barbie collection

He does look more plastic-y than the others, doesn't he? Not sure what it is. Maybe his unnaturally blue eyes?

And that pic is adorable. I also love the fact that Anders has a Grey Warden tattoo. I can totally see him waking up after that drinking contest he lost at the end of Awakening and realising he has a griffon on his chest.

[Kavatica]

Cantina wrote...

Um...Sebass...its a skeleton...STF and keep killing crap. .


BTW....is it me or does Sebastian look like Ken from the Barbie collection

He says this with spiders and shades too. 

It's the shiny armour. But you know, at least Isabela gets some use out of it.

[smallwhippet]

Love the picture!
Did anyone else catch Anders's banterlicious jibe about Seb having Andraste's face stuck in his crotch?

[Dreaming-in-Shadow]

smallwhippet wrote...

Love the picture!
Did anyone else catch Anders's banterlicious jibe about Seb having Andraste's face stuck in his crotch?

Anders: Is that supposed to be Andraste's face on your crotch?
Sebastian: What?
Anders: That... belt buckle thing. Is that Andraste?
Sebastian: My father had this armor commissioned when I took my vows as a brother.
Anders: I'm just not sure I'd want the Maker seeing me shove His bride's head between my legs every morning.

Yep! 

Modifié par Dreaming-in-Shadow, 22 mars 2012 - 04:15 .

[Cantina]

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

smallwhippet wrote...

Love the picture!
Did anyone else catch Anders's banterlicious jibe about Seb having Andraste's face stuck in his crotch?

Anders: Is that supposed to be Andraste's face on your crotch?
Sebastian: What?
Anders: That... belt buckle thing. Is that Andraste?
Sebastian: My father had this armor commissioned when I took my vows as a brother.
Anders: I'm just not sure I'd want the Maker seeing me shove His bride's head between my legs every morning.

Yep! 

First time I heard this, I laughed so hard my side hurt. Oh Gawd, I <3 you Anders 

[Cantina]

Nilfalasiel wrote...

Cantina wrote...

BTW....is it me or does Sebastian look like Ken from the Barbie collection

He does look more plastic-y than the others, doesn't he? Not sure what it is. Maybe his unnaturally blue eyes?

And that pic is adorable. I also love the fact that Anders has a Grey Warden tattoo. I can totally see him waking up after that drinking contest he lost at the end of Awakening and realising he has a griffon on his chest.

I remeber that all too well

Anders-So that's it, we have to drink Darkspawn blood?

Whatshisname-That is it

Anders-Alright. But if I wake up on a ship bound for Ravan in nothing but my small clothes and a tattoo on my forehead, I'm blaming you.

[smallwhippet]

*sighs*
Prince among NPCs: we salute you.

[Ricvenart]

I thought I read something about Anders in the extended DA universe a while back, did something happen to him there that may put a damper on seeing him in DA3? Sorry, trying to be vague, probably failing, though my searches turn up nothing so I must have had a nightmare and was not real.

[Alessa]

Ricvenart wrote...

I thought I read something about Anders in the extended DA universe a while back, did something happen to him there that may put a damper on seeing him in DA3? Sorry, trying to be vague, probably failing, though my searches turn up nothing so I must have had a nightmare and was not real.

Well, the only thing I know 'that may put a damper on seeing him in DA3' is the sad fact, that a lot of players killed him...
But David Gaider seemed to like the idea of bringing Anders back in a future game ... so I'll keep hoping.

[Ricvenart]

Thanks, I could have sworn I saw some mention of the book or anime with him in it. I've clearly lost it.

Yeah, poses a problem, though when I hung round here after release it seemed more even, unlike several things in ME, besides isn't it the point of the importing saves and the story arc that these things are accounted for? Then again the ditching of DA2's story and ME3's ending doesn't inspire hope.

[Alessa]

Ricvenart wrote...

Thanks, I could have sworn I saw some mention of the book or anime with him in it. I've clearly lost it.

Yeah, poses a problem, though when I hung round here after release it seemed more even, unlike several things in ME, besides isn't it the point of the importing saves and the story arc that these things are accounted for? Then again the ditching of DA2's story and ME3's ending doesn't inspire hope.

I myself have not read the book yet but I heard that Anders is casually mentioned within.

Yes, I think if Anders makes an appearance in DA3, then just as a cameo for those players who did not kill him and import a save with him being alive. In the worst case, we will only find him as an entry in the codex.

But I'm an incurable optimist and hope dies last...

[esper]

I must admit to hoping they do li-cameo's again. I know it is shameless fanservice, but I kinda want to see all the da2 Li's if alive plus Zevran since we got cheated out of him this round.

[CuriousArtemis]

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

My Hawke's opinion:
"Well, it's a pity he didn't tell me that- Oh, wait, he did tell me that he was dangerous and that he would hurt me. He spent three years trying to stay away from me before giving in (the foxy, irresistable PC wench/man-wench that I am! XD).

Oh god.  I love that!!  "man-wench"   My Lachland Hawke was SUCH a saucy man-wench!  He flirted with EVERYONE, and, I like to think, drove Anders up the wall ... poor Anders, who's SUCH a romantic!  Lachlan even slept with Isabela because (in-my-head-canon) Anders kept putting him off.  He even visited the brothel!  

Cantina wrote...

I only have Sebass in my party when its needed for a quest of his. Will be fighting skeletons and when he kills one he yells "I will pray for you!" 

Um...Sebass...its a skeleton...STF and keep killing crap. .

 

OMG ... this made me laugh so hard 

And Anders' "I'll show you why mages are feared!" is so much cooler to boot! 

[LT123]

Nilfalasiel wrote...

Even if you fully rival him (and I always do), Sebastian is far from being the most decisive person ever. For all his talk of gloriously retaking Starkhaven and blah-blah-blah, he really does faff about. He's like the champion of faffing about. So really, I take his hissy fit at the end of the game with a grain of salt or 100. I can seriously see him faffing about for a couple more years before trying to do anything (let's not forget he needs to actually retake Starkhaven first before anything can be done about that army of his), by which point it'll be far too late.

And yeah, that "none of us are free" convo is just... I'm thinking Anders doesn't even bother replying because he's too busy facepalming at that point. Probably figured that Seb is a lost cause.

This is why Sebastian's line at the end about Hawke waffling always makes me snicker. He'll probably run around Starkhaven putting up signs to get people to help. Or maybe he'll surprise everybody and actually do raze Kirkwall. Who knows?

Elthina compares him to a weathervane being blown around (or something similar) which I thought was quite accurate. Isn't he the youngest of his siblings? If so, he probably didn't get much of the training the heir would.

I was also interested in his line about his insistence that none of the people in Starkhaven care who their ruler is. Contrast Alistair, who's either a) petrified at the idea of being responsible for so many people or decides that he'll be a better ruler than Anora is, because he believes she only cares about power. (Granted, I think he said that during a run where the Warden went "herp derp, Anora's right here"  and was brutally honest about Loghain's possible fate so Anora threw everyone under the bus twice.)

The one Sebastian conversation involving Anders that really irritates me is the "Hey, Fenris, let's turn Merrill and Anders in" one. If I remember correctly, Anders says something about the templars already knowing about him. And Fenris goes, "Nope. Take it up with Hawke."

[Cantina]

LT123 wrote...

Nilfalasiel wrote...

Even if you fully rival him (and I always do), Sebastian is far from being the most decisive person ever. For all his talk of gloriously retaking Starkhaven and blah-blah-blah, he really does faff about. He's like the champion of faffing about. So really, I take his hissy fit at the end of the game with a grain of salt or 100. I can seriously see him faffing about for a couple more years before trying to do anything (let's not forget he needs to actually retake Starkhaven first before anything can be done about that army of his), by which point it'll be far too late.

And yeah, that "none of us are free" convo is just... I'm thinking Anders doesn't even bother replying because he's too busy facepalming at that point. Probably figured that Seb is a lost cause.

This is why Sebastian's line at the end about Hawke waffling always makes me snicker. He'll probably run around Starkhaven putting up signs to get people to help. Or maybe he'll surprise everybody and actually do raze Kirkwall. Who knows?

Elthina compares him to a weathervane being blown around (or something similar) which I thought was quite accurate. Isn't he the youngest of his siblings? If so, he probably didn't get much of the training the heir would.

I was also interested in his line about his insistence that none of the people in Starkhaven care who their ruler is. Contrast Alistair, who's either a) petrified at the idea of being responsible for so many people or decides that he'll be a better ruler than Anora is, because he believes she only cares about power. (Granted, I think he said that during a run where the Warden went "herp derp, Anora's right here"  and was brutally honest about Loghain's possible fate so Anora threw everyone under the bus twice.)

The one Sebastian conversation involving Anders that really irritates me is the "Hey, Fenris, let's turn Merrill and Anders in" one. If I remember correctly, Anders says something about the templars already knowing about him. And Fenris goes, "Nope. Take it up with Hawke."

I am one of those people on the band wagon of the whole Justice/Anders merger being something the writers pulled out their ass and not in agreement with it. BUT, I DO find it Anders just as sexy when he morphs into Justice-yes, I know I am a strange person.

In any case, I think the whole "Anders dies, Anders lives" is split down the middle with those who played the game. In my opinion, I think Gaider realizes there is a huge fan base for Anders and I doubt he will kill Anders off much less Hawk....but who knows.

IF Anders makes a cameo in the third installment, no doubt those who killed him DA2 will hurry back and make sure he lives. I just hope they don't F him and my Hawke's story up for the third one in a cameo or in a codex. Last thing I want to read is "After Hawke and Anders fled Kirkwall, they continue their cause to fight for mage freedom. When the Circles fell, they both went out and tried to save as many mages as they could. However they both died while attempting this....blah blah blah."

Yeah that would be bad, oh so bad.

[Nilfalasiel]

LT123 wrote...

The one Sebastian conversation involving Anders that really irritates me is the "Hey, Fenris, let's turn Merrill and Anders in" one. If I remember correctly, Anders says something about the templars already knowing about him. And Fenris goes, "Nope. Take it up with Hawke."

It's really saying something about Fenris, though, that despite how much he despises both Anders and Merrill (but especially Anders), he still wants no part of Seb's snitching ways. Atta boy, Fen, atta boy.

Cantina wrote...

IF Anders makes a cameo in the third installment, no doubt those who killed him DA2 will hurry back and make sure he lives.

I dunno about that one...From what I've seen, most of the people who've killed him really hated his guts, and I don't think they'd be all that eager to go back and change his fate. 

I just hope they don't F him and my Hawke's story up for the third one in a cameo or in a codex. Last thing I want to read is "After Hawke and Anders fled Kirkwall, they continue their cause to fight for mage freedom. When the Circles fell, they both went out and tried to save as many mages as they could. However they both died while attempting this....blah blah blah."

Err...if ME3's anything to go by, then all bets are off in that department. As frightening as that may sound (ie. VERY). That's also part of the reason why I'm not so hot on cameos in DA3.

[CuriousArtemis]

Nilfalasiel wrote...

It's really saying something about Fenris, though, that despite how much he despises both Anders and Merrill (but especially Anders), he still wants no part of Seb's snitching ways. Atta boy, Fen, atta boy.

Err...if ME3's anything to go by, then all bets are off in that department. As frightening as that may sound (ie. VERY). That's also part of the reason why I'm not so hot on cameos in DA3.

Fenris is a quality guy.  I always try to argue that he doesn't hate Anders or Merrill, in that he's fully capable of conversing rationally with them (and that they don't hate him back), but then sometimes the writers are inconsistent with their characters, which is frustrating.  Example one: Anders approving of giving Fenris back to his slave owner (OH COME ON); Example two: Fenris cheerfully agreeing with Hawke to slaughter all the innocent mages after Anders' experiment goes boom.

In any case, the point about Sebastian faffing about (okay, erm, love that word!) is particularly true after that little conversation he has with Fenris; presumably, he doesn't go and turn Merrill and Anders in afterward... such a cowardly little weasel, that one!

Which is not to say I don't think Seb is a really well-written character.  Just don't like the guy lol

About ME3, haven't played any ME but I believe the whole dev crew is different from DA.

[AbsoluteApril]

(pops in - Hi Anders thread *waves*)

Cantina wrote...

Anders-Alright. But if I wake up on a ship bound for Ravan in nothing but my small clothes and a tattoo on my forehead, I'm blaming you.

I always like that line.. it's like he is foreshadowing the tranquil (tattoo on the forehead).

Nilfalasiel wrote...
I dunno about that one...From what I've seen, most of the people who've killed him really hated his guts, and I don't think they'd be all that eager to go back and change his fate. 

Out of 4 PTs (so far) Anders got the ol stabbity stab 3 times. I don't hate him at all, I think he's a great complex character... but one Mage supporter felt completely betrayed by him and the 2 templar supporters well, one was just an arse and the other felt killing him was 'justice' for what he did.

I will say that if he has a cameo in DA3, I only want to see him with my imports that let him live, I don't want him to be bugged ala Zev or somehow the murder knife didn't really do the job.



by http://pyromaniac03....m/]pyromaniac03[/url]

Modifié par AbsoluteApril, 22 mars 2012 - 11:22 .

[Nilfalasiel]

motomotogirl wrote...

About ME3, haven't played any ME but I believe the whole dev crew is different from DA.

Good point, but, as they say in French, "a scalded cat fears cold water" (felt that a kitty-proverb would be particularly appropriate in this thread ).

AbsoluteApril wrote...

Out of 4 PTs (so far) Anders got the ol stabbity stab 3 times. I don't hate him at all, I think he's a great complex character... but one Mage supporter felt completely betrayed by him and the 2 templar supporters well, one was just an arse and the other felt killing him was 'justice' for what he did.

Oh, of course, I know there are people out there who killed him because it made sense as RP, no matter how pained and/or sad they felt about it. Which is why I said "most" and not "all". Usually though, what I tend to hear is "Anders was a whiny hypocrite/psychopathic terrorist, and I'm so happy I murderknifed his ass". The DA2 variant of "Zevran was an STD-riddled ho'/backstabbing, heartless killer, and I'm so happy I murderknifed his ass". *rolls eyes*

I will say that if he has a cameo in DA3, I only want to see him with my imports that let him live, I don't want him to be bugged ala Zev or somehow the murder knife didn't really do the job.

Heck, at least in Zev's case it was legitimately a bug. Leliana won't stay dead even without being bugged. Which is simply not fair. Just because she's a developer-favourite shouldn't mean she gets a "get out of death" free card. Just don't make her killable in the first place, if you need her for storyline reasons.

Modifié par Nilfalasiel, 22 mars 2012 - 11:40 .

[Tealsie]

Nilfalasiel wrote...

Heck, at least in Zev's case it was legitimately a bug. Leliana won't stay dead even without being bugged. Which is simply not fair. Just because she's a developer-favourite shouldn't mean she gets a "get out of death" free card. Just don't make her killable in the first place, if you need her for storyline reasons.

Same thing with Anders in Awakening. Or was there an explanation given for why we can kill him in Awakening, but he still turns up in DA2? I know he and Nate get a couple of lines about it, but they don't really explain anything. 

[Nilfalasiel]

Tealsie wrote...

Same thing with Anders in Awakening. Or was there an explanation given for why we can kill him in Awakening, but he still turns up in DA2? I know he and Nate get a couple of lines about it, but they don't really explain anything. 

Yep, good point, can't believe it skipped my mind  IIRC, the explanation (at least, for the epilogue where he dies defending Vigil's Keep...I can't remember if there are any other instances where he's killable) is that he faked his death just so he could escape. The body they found was apparently burned beyond recognition, so they assumed it was him. In reality, he just saw it as the perfect occasion to bugger off from the Wardens.

It's a silly explanation. But it's still better than "it wasn't yet my time", which is all Leliana can come up with. So...what? You just willed yourself back alive? Or did the Maker somehow consider you special enough?

Still, for both of them: it does no good to burn your bridges by making characters who could potentially have an important storyline role later down the line killable.

Modifié par Nilfalasiel, 23 mars 2012 - 12:23 .

[slashthedragon]

motomotogirl wrote...

Nilfalasiel wrote...

It's really saying something about Fenris, though, that despite how much he despises both Anders and Merrill (but especially Anders), he still wants no part of Seb's snitching ways. Atta boy, Fen, atta boy.

Err...if ME3's anything to go by, then all bets are off in that department. As frightening as that may sound (ie. VERY). That's also part of the reason why I'm not so hot on cameos in DA3.

Fenris is a quality guy.  I always try to argue that he doesn't hate Anders or Merrill, in that he's fully capable of conversing rationally with them (and that they don't hate him back), but then sometimes the writers are inconsistent with their characters, which is frustrating.  Example one: Anders approving of giving Fenris back to his slave owner (OH COME ON); Example two: Fenris cheerfully agreeing with Hawke to slaughter all the innocent mages after Anders' experiment goes boom.

At lot of people see Fenris and Anders as 100% hating each other forever and ever.  I don't agree wih that; that is taking that one note and running with it to the exclusion of everything else.  Characters are complex, but the game should reflect that.
I had a bit of question with the 'Anders agreeing with giving Fenris back'.  First, doesn't that line only happen if Hawke first decides to give Fenis back?  And also, way to be inconsistent writers, Anders is against slavery, and even if he somehow 100% loathes Fenris, the line still doesn't seem right.