57020 réponses à ce sujet

[slashthedragon]

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

If everything is the "Will of the Maker", Sebastian, Elthina, then quite frankly the Maker is an abusive f*ck of an absentee (as Morrigan said) father and the biggest troll in existence.

This is often a RL point of contention between the religious and the agnostics/atheists.  (Some) religions believe that anything that happens, good or bad, is part of a plan.  The not religious see the bad things in life as either 'there is no good' or 'God doesn't care/isn't involved in' what happens on earth.
I used to think things happened for a reason (because it does make you feel better, that you/other people suffer for a higher purpose and will be rewarded) but when my mother got very sick 2 years ago and then recently died, I became someone who doesn't believe that any higher power has control of our lives, if there is a god at all.  Or, that god is not so loving as everyone thinks.
I like what Morrigan says.

[esper]

slashthedragon wrote...

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

If everything is the "Will of the Maker", Sebastian, Elthina, then quite frankly the Maker is an abusive f*ck of an absentee (as Morrigan said) father and the biggest troll in existence.

This is often a RL point of contention between the religious and the agnostics/atheists.  (Some) religions believe that anything that happens, good or bad, is part of a plan.  The not religious see the bad things in life as either 'there is no good' or 'God doesn't care/isn't involved in' what happens on earth.
I used to think things happened for a reason (because it does make you feel better, that you/other people suffer for a higher purpose and will be rewarded) but when my mother got very sick 2 years ago and then recently died, I became someone who doesn't believe that any higher power has control of our lives, if there is a god at all.  Or, that god is not so loving as everyone thinks.
I like what Morrigan says.

It gets even better with the DA-religion where the Maker actualyl is a jerk according to the chantry: (Abandonded the spirits, abandonded humans and dealt out a punishment way out of proportion , came back and fell in love with a mortal woman and acted on it despite her being married, then got mad when her husband didn't like it and then abandonded humans once more).

Honestely it is better for Thedas if he doesn't exist and if he does better that he doesn't pay attention to the world.

[Cantina]

Nilfalasiel wrote...



Oh, of course, I know there are people out there who killed him because it made sense as RP, no matter how pained and/or sad they felt about it. Which is why I said "most" and not "all". Usually though, what I tend to hear is "Anders was a whiny hypocrite/psychopathic terrorist, and I'm so happy I murderknifed his ass". The DA2 variant of "Zevran was an STD-riddled ho'/backstabbing, heartless killer, and I'm so happy I murderknifed his ass". *rolls eyes*

I certainly do not view Anders as a terrorist and those who
call him such, well I do not agree with them because they are not looking at
the bigger picture. Beyond that, I can see why Anders can be a hypocrite and whiney
at some points, he has a spirit inside him and a lot of anger.  I tend to wonder if people killed him in the
end simply not for RP purposes but the fact they did not like his leap from Awakening
Anders to DA2 Anders-unless of course you decide to be evil and side with the
Templars.

Each time I play through the game, I sympathize with what
Anders did and cannot kill him for an act that needed to be done. The Chantry
is a scam and their Templars are complete joke-for Pete’s sake they use magic
to capture mages <shakes head>. Their religion is nothing more than a
means to inflict fear on the non-mage populace. I have no such hate or love for
religious beliefs outside the game, but in game, gawd I would have given my
left toe just to smack the Grand Cleric, at least once.

I guess in some ways I can see my views about the Chantry
and the Templars in Anders, I never liked them even back in DAO.

I have to agree about the whole “give Feneris to Danarius”
thing, that made no sense to me, but I blame the writers for that.

When it comes to the writing of Anders, sure, I agree with
those that say he could have been written better, but hey, the whole game could
have been better too.

I will say one thing, I think a choice on stopping Anders
from doing what he did, should have been in the game. I for one certainly would
not have stopped him, but I am sure other players would have taken that path.
But then again there are quite a few choices the players makes in the game that
has little if any effect when the end comes.

[CuriousArtemis]

There is a thin line between "terrorist" and "revolutionary."    It just depends on whose side you're on.  Of course, my Hawke is always on Anders' side.  But I'm also a very peaceful person, and what Anders does horrifies me.  I understand, but it horrifies me.

He's both revolutionary and terrorist to me.  

[esper]

I don't really care what label to put on it to be fair. I think it was necessary, I think it had to be done. I also think it is sad both for Anders who the decision doesn't comes lightly too and for those who lost their life in the explosion. I still think it is necessary, even justice, for the future generation of mages who would have had their life ruinied had something drastically and violent not happened that made everyone see just how wrong the system is.

[Cantina]

motomotogirl wrote...

There is a thin line between "terrorist" and "revolutionary."    It just depends on whose side you're on.  Of course, my Hawke is always on Anders' side.  But I'm also a very peaceful person, and what Anders does horrifies me.  I understand, but it horrifies me.

He's both revolutionary and terrorist to me.  

 

I view him more as a revolutionist then a terrorist. What he
did may seem wrong to some people-that is fine, everyone has their own opinion.


 I personally feel
that if anyone views his actions as wrong, then they are no better than the
Templars or the Chantry.  Of course, that
is my opinion on the matter and the opinion of my character.  Going beyond that my character does not view
the “innocents” killed in the explosion as wrong. For over a thousand years,
mages have been oppressed. I see no murder only the justification of all the
mages who been through hell over a thousand years. At some point you or someone
has to make a stand.

Bah! I am rambling again; this will turn into Anders
manifesto if I don’t hush up.

[esper]

Cantina wrote...

motomotogirl wrote...

There is a thin line between "terrorist" and "revolutionary."    It just depends on whose side you're on.  Of course, my Hawke is always on Anders' side.  But I'm also a very peaceful person, and what Anders does horrifies me.  I understand, but it horrifies me.

He's both revolutionary and terrorist to me.  

 

I view him more as a revolutionist then a terrorist. What he
did may seem wrong to some people-that is fine, everyone has their own opinion.


 I personally feel
that if anyone views his actions as wrong, then they are no better than the
Templars or the Chantry.  Of course, that
is my opinion on the matter and the opinion of my character.  Going beyond that my character does not view
the “innocents” killed in the explosion as wrong. For over a thousand years,
mages have been oppressed. I see no murder only the justification of all the
mages who been through hell over a thousand years. At some point you or someone
has to make a stand.

Bah! I am rambling again; this will turn into Anders
manifesto if I don’t hush up.

So you're basically calling me a templar supporter because I view his action wrong on a moral level, but necessary for the justice of future generations and wholly agree that it had to be done?

Edit: Manifestoes are good. We like manifestoes... they warm our revolutionary hearts.

Modifié par esper, 23 mars 2012 - 08:00 .

[Cantina]

esper wrote...

Cantina wrote...

motomotogirl wrote...

There is a thin line between "terrorist" and "revolutionary."    It just depends on whose side you're on.  Of course, my Hawke is always on Anders' side.  But I'm also a very peaceful person, and what Anders does horrifies me.  I understand, but it horrifies me.

He's both revolutionary and terrorist to me.  

 

I view him more as a revolutionist then a terrorist. What he
did may seem wrong to some people-that is fine, everyone has their own opinion.


 I personally feel
that if anyone views his actions as wrong, then they are no better than the
Templars or the Chantry.  Of course, that
is my opinion on the matter and the opinion of my character.  Going beyond that my character does not view
the “innocents” killed in the explosion as wrong. For over a thousand years,
mages have been oppressed. I see no murder only the justification of all the
mages who been through hell over a thousand years. At some point you or someone
has to make a stand.

Bah! I am rambling again; this will turn into Anders
manifesto if I don’t hush up.

So you're basically calling me a templar supporter because I view his action wrong on a moral level, but necessary for the justice of future generations and wholly agree that it had to be done?

Edit: Manifestoes are good. We like manifestoes... they warm our revolutionary hearts.

No not at all. I am saying that if you view his actions as wrong, full circle then yes. But since you think its wrong but on a level of nescessity, no.



LMAO! Then maybe I should run off and starting writing my character's manifesto then

[Cantina]

sjpelkessjpeler wrote...

checked out this thread. OMG almost 2200 pages on one character.
The writer did her job well......................................

I for one think that Anders is doomed regardless everything. You can not save him no matter what. It's either the blight/calling or Justice or Hawke but his fait is determined. There is no chance he's going to die of old age. I feel sorry for him.

That may or may not change according to Gaider.

"David Gaider stated that Anders being merged with Justice may have one
of the two effects on his Calling: "One is that the spirit within Anders
can affect the level of his corruption, so it may delay or remove the
necessity for his Calling altogether. Either that or at some point the
corruption within Anders is going to corrupt the spirit." He refused to
tell which one the writers prefer due to the possibility of Anders
appearing in future games."



I think it would be an interesting turn that Justice would remove the taint from Anders completely. In my experience no character is ever doomed. It all depends on the path the writers chose to take and what path you chose to take in game.



BTW........I'm playing DA2 (again for the 12th time)..........wouldn't uh.......Hawke had or be pregnant after having sex with Anders for over three years??

Going to do some serious research and digging....

[Alessa]

Cantina wrote...


BTW........I'm playing DA2 (again for the 12th time)..........wouldn't uh.......Hawke had or be pregnant after having sex with Anders for over three years??

Going to do some serious research and digging....

Good question ... have to think about it ... just imagining some little Anders crawling about in DA3 ... awesome idea!

Modifié par Alessa-00, 24 mars 2012 - 01:25 .

[Cantina]

Alessa-00 wrote...

Cantina wrote...


BTW........I'm playing DA2 (again for the 12th time)..........wouldn't uh.......Hawke had or be pregnant after having sex with Anders for over three years??

Going to do some serious research and digging....

Good question ... have to think about it ... just imagining some little Anders crawling about in DA3 ... awesome idea!

Still digging.....but according to my findings thus far

According to Alistair it is possiable to have at least ONE child if one parent is a Warden, not easy, but it can or has happened. IF both parents are Wardens its impossiable.

Still that leaves the question open..as to if Hawke had a child during those three years and placed him or her into hiding.

Either if its true not the statment Anders says "We will fight for a world were our childern can be born mages and free." So there is already a child born or their will be in the future.. Hawke could be pregnant in the final battle in Kirkwall.

Oh so much research....so much to ponder. My mind is going a mile a mintue here.....


I dunno the idea of a little Hawke/Anders kid running around sounds so adorable. <3

Modifié par Cantina, 24 mars 2012 - 01:37 .

[Kavatica]

Cantina wrote...

Alessa-00 wrote...

Cantina wrote...


BTW........I'm playing DA2 (again for the 12th time)..........wouldn't uh.......Hawke had or be pregnant after having sex with Anders for over three years??

Going to do some serious research and digging....

Good question ... have to think about it ... just imagining some little Anders crawling about in DA3 ... awesome idea!

Still digging.....but according to my findings thus far

According to Alistair it is possiable to have at least ONE child if one parent is a Warden, not easy, but it can or has happened. IF both parents are Wardens its impossiable.

Still that leaves the question open..as to if Hawke had a child during those three years and placed him or her into hiding.

Either if its true not the statment Anders says "We will fight for a world were our childern can be born mages and free." So there is already a child born or their will be in the future.. Hawke could be pregnant in the final battle in Kirkwall.

Oh so much research....so much to ponder. My mind is going a mile a mintue here.....


I dunno the idea of a little Hawke/Anders kid running around sounds so adorable. <3

Yes - basically as DA lore goes, if both parents are tainted it is impossible for them to reproduce. If one is tainted it would still be difficult, but not impossible. After all, Morrigan appears to get pregnant in DAO, even without the DR (if a male warden romances her and then refuses the DR, there is still a rumour that she is pregnant in the epilogues). So I think the likelihood of a fem Hawke getting preggers is pretty good. Probably not as easy to reproduce as your regular untainted couple, but definitely a possibility. As for her being pregnant in the game - I don't think so - they probably used some kind of magical (or DA medieval-style) contraception. I mean, what with Hawke being out there fighting everyone all the time, I doubt that would be a risk either of them would have wanted to take. AFTER the events of DA though, yeah I can definitely see them going for it. 

Modifié par Kavatica, 24 mars 2012 - 03:46 .

[CuriousArtemis]

Kavatica wrote...

Yes - basically as DA lore goes, if both parents are tainted it is impossible for them to reproduce. If one is tainted it would still be difficult, but not impossible. After all, Morrigan appears to get pregnant in DAO, even without the DR (if a male warden romances her and then refuses the DR, there is still a rumour that she is pregnant in the epilogues). So I think the likelihood of a fem Hawke getting preggers is pretty good. Probably not as easy to reproduce as your regular untainted couple, but definitely a possibility. As for her being pregnant in the game - I don't think so - they probably used some kind of magical (or DA medieval-style) contraception. I mean, what with Hawke being out there fighting everyone all the time, I doubt that would be a risk either of them would have wanted to take. AFTER the events of DA though, yeah I can definitely see them going for it. 

Condoms, anyone?  Also, if ANYone would know how to create magical spermicide ... *looks at Anders*

By the way, a male Warden can refuse and make Alistair sleep with Morrigan, which is what I did my second (and canon) playthrough.  If you let your Warden sleep with her, he gets this cheesy sleezy look on his face as if he's been dreaming about banging this witchy babe for eons ... which was awkward, since my Warden was GAY.

Thanks so much, BW <_<

Modifié par motomotogirl, 24 mars 2012 - 05:12 .

[Kavatica]

motomotogirl wrote...

Kavatica wrote...

Yes - basically as DA lore goes, if both parents are tainted it is impossible for them to reproduce. If one is tainted it would still be difficult, but not impossible. After all, Morrigan appears to get pregnant in DAO, even without the DR (if a male warden romances her and then refuses the DR, there is still a rumour that she is pregnant in the epilogues). So I think the likelihood of a fem Hawke getting preggers is pretty good. Probably not as easy to reproduce as your regular untainted couple, but definitely a possibility. As for her being pregnant in the game - I don't think so - they probably used some kind of magical (or DA medieval-style) contraception. I mean, what with Hawke being out there fighting everyone all the time, I doubt that would be a risk either of them would have wanted to take. AFTER the events of DA though, yeah I can definitely see them going for it. 

Condoms, anyone?  Also, if ANYone would know how to create magical spermicide ... *looks at Anders*

By the way, a male Warden can refuse and make Alistair sleep with Morrigan, which is what I did my second (and canon) playthrough.  If you let your Warden sleep with her, he gets this cheesy sleezy look on his face as if he's been dreaming about banging this witchy babe for eons ... which was awkward, since my Warden was GAY.

Thanks so much, BW <_<

No comment on that one, but if you do some research into medieval contraception...ew. I'm going to stick with magic. Because that is less disturbing. 

Well, I've only ever had Alistair do the ritual as a female Warden. He always looks horrified. HA about the male warden. I will have to look for that - although the male warden I am playing is romancing Morrigan so I would expect him to look...excited. 

[hobbit of the shire]

Could the fact that he's possessed have an effect on his virility? Fade spirits don't multiply, do they? I'm sure possession has some affect on your physical being (geesh, it must at least do something to your hormones!). Aside from that hypothesis, I think games in general ignore the inevitable consequence of such acts. Would wreak havoc to a storyline. :-p

[esper]

I love the logic of this thread. Jumping from chantry explosions to condoms...
Any way just because you have unproctected sex it does not automatically means you get pregnant. All lot of factors have to fit the bill for a child to come and when we calculate in that Anders has a low fertility because of the taint it is not unrealistic that they go three years without any children. In my specfic case my Hawke is a blood mage as well which means her favorite form of attack consist of jabbing her staff through her abdomen... that proberly doesn't raise the chance of her getting pregnant.

[Nilfalasiel]

esper wrote...

I love the logic of this thread. Jumping from chantry explosions to condoms...
Any way just because you have unproctected sex it does not automatically means you get pregnant. All lot of factors have to fit the bill for a child to come and when we calculate in that Anders has a low fertility because of the taint it is not unrealistic that they go three years without any children.

This. I don't think the chances of Hawke conceiving with Anders were ever "pretty good", so three years doesn't strike me as being unrealistic. In fact, even if they actively tried, I wouldn't be shocked it it took longer. Add to that the fact that Thedas doesn't exactly fit all the historical requirements of a medieval society (eg. the status of women), and I don't think the existence of contraception is such an outlandish possibility, especially since, as has been mentioned, magic does exist. Add to that the fact that Anders would probably rather die than raise a child in Kirkwall, and I don't think preggers!Hawke in DA2 is likely. Or even until the mage-templar was is over: don't think he'd be a very big fan of raising a child while on the run and being actively hunted either.

On a tangential topic, my last Warden was an F!Cousland who romanced Alistair, and I was surprised at their baby discussion: they both seemed to think that there was at least some possibility of their having a child naturally. One of the Warden's responses to the baby talk is something along the lines of "well, it won't be for lack of trying", and Alistair seems to think that's good enough. So maybe the chance of two Wardens conceiving isn't strictly 0%, but rather something more along the lines of 1-5%? Dunno.

Modifié par Nilfalasiel, 24 mars 2012 - 11:13 .

[Cantina]

Nilfalasiel wrote...

esper wrote...

I love the logic of this thread. Jumping from chantry explosions to condoms...
Any way just because you have unproctected sex it does not automatically means you get pregnant. All lot of factors have to fit the bill for a child to come and when we calculate in that Anders has a low fertility because of the taint it is not unrealistic that they go three years without any children.

This. I don't think the chances of Hawke conceiving with Anders were ever "pretty good", so three years doesn't strike me as being unrealistic. In fact, even if they actively tried, I wouldn't be shocked it it took longer. Add to that the fact that Thedas doesn't exactly fit all the historical requirements of a medieval society (eg. the status of women), and I don't think the existence of contraception is such an outlandish possibility, especially since, as has been mentioned, magic does exist. Add to that the fact that Anders would probably rather die than raise a child in Kirkwall, and I don't think preggers!Hawke in DA2 is likely. Or even until the mage-templar was is over: don't think he'd be a very big fan of raising a child while on the run and being actively hunted either.

On a tangential topic, my last Warden was an F!Cousland who romanced Alistair, and I was surprised at their baby discussion: they both seemed to think that there was at least some possibility of their having a child naturally. One of the Warden's responses to the baby talk is something along the lines of "well, it won't be for lack of trying", and Alistair seems to think that's good enough. So maybe the chance of two Wardens conceiving isn't strictly 0%, but rather something more along the lines of 1-5%? Dunno.

I doubt Anders and Hawke were trying to have a child with
all that was going on in Kirkwall. However, it could be possible down the road
an“accident” happens and she ends up pregnant. It sounds like Anders does want children,
due to his comment at the end of the game. When that will happen or if it
happens, is up in the air. In addition, these are times when conceiving was not
exactly easy. Of course, it depends on the person too.

I am certainly not suggesting the writers should have made
Hawke pregnant during their last years in Kirkwall. I do not think seeing a
pregnant Hawke running around trying to kill Templars a thing that would be feasible
in the game, also a bit disturbing. However, it does not exclude the possibility
of her being in the very early stages of pregnancy while engaged in the start
of the war. Or hell later on becomes pregnant. I do not think it would hurt the
story after DA2, it would (in my mind) be something interesting that happened.

While Anders may not want a child due to the war going on,
you cannot exclude the possibility of as I said an accident. And I don’t see
how the spirit inside Anders will affect his fertility, just the taint.

[Nilfalasiel]

Cantina wrote...

I doubt Anders and Hawke were trying to have a child with all that was going on in Kirkwall. However, it could be possible down the road an “accident” happens and she ends up pregnant. It sounds like Anders does want children, due to his comment at the end of the game. When that will happen or if it happens, is up in the air. In addition, these are times when conceiving was not exactly easy. Of course, it depends on the person too.

I am certainly not suggesting the writers should have made Hawke pregnant during their last years in Kirkwall. I do not think seeing a pregnant Hawke running around trying to kill Templars a thing that would be feasible in the game, also a bit disturbing. However, it does not exclude the possibility of her being in the very early stages of pregnancy while engaged in the start of the war. Or hell later on becomes pregnant. I do not think it would hurt the story after DA2, it would (in my mind) be something interesting that happened.

Well, that's the thing: considering Anders has fertility issues, an accident is simply unlikely. He does sound like he wants children at some point down the line (although that statement could just as well be interpreted as "the children of all mages"), but it would already be difficult for them to have a child even if they were actively and specifically trying.

It wouldn't hurt the story, I agree there. In fact, it would up the personal stakes for both of them something fierce. It's just that the probability of it happening is very low, IMO.

[Kavatica]

Nilfalasiel wrote...

On a tangential topic, my last Warden was an F!Cousland who romanced Alistair, and I was surprised at their baby discussion: they both seemed to think that there was at least some possibility of their having a child naturally. One of the Warden's responses to the baby talk is something along the lines of "well, it won't be for lack of trying", and Alistair seems to think that's good enough. So maybe the chance of two Wardens conceiving isn't strictly 0%, but rather something more along the lines of 1-5%? Dunno.

Nope. 0%. And I quote: 'A Grey Warden can have a child... just not with another Grey Warden. So in the case of Alistair being married to a female PC the only possible result is no heir (unless Alistair has a child with someone other than his wife, I suppose). Grey Wardens have a limited chance of conception with a non-Grey Warden, but it does happen... and the child is not tainted in any fashion.' - David Gaider

Don't forget that what your fem Cousland and Alistair know about being a grey warden is basically nothing...they are baby wardens. They didn't even know about how to slay the archdemon. Although I love the conversation you are referring to, I mainly took that as them both being in denial and wanting to stay together. 

Modifié par Kavatica, 24 mars 2012 - 02:53 .

[Nilfalasiel]

Kavatica wrote...

Nope. 0%. And I quote: 'A Grey Warden can have a child... just not with another Grey Warden. So in the case of Alistair being married to a female PC the only possible result is no heir (unless Alistair has a child with someone other than his wife, I suppose). Grey Wardens have a limited chance of conception with a non-Grey Warden, but it does happen... and the child is not tainted in any fashion.' - David Gaider

Don't forget that what your fem Cousland and Alistair know about being a grey warden is basically nothing...they are baby wardens. They didn't even know about how to slay the archdemon. Although I love the conversation you are referring to, I mainly took that as them both being in denial and wanting to stay together. 

Good point, it's true that they probably wouldn't know. She's my only Warden who romanced Alistair, so I'd never looked into the issue before. Guess they're gonna have to get creative to find an heir.

Come to think of it, if you have a Warden who romanced Alistair and really wants children, the Dark Ritual would be a double kick in the gut, wouldn't it?

And to keep things Anders-related:



I like to call this "The Fist of Justice".

[wendolen]

Re: Hawke and Anders and pregnancy... as motomotogirl pointed out, he's a HEALER, for Andraste's sake. I'm pretty sure he can assist Hawke in not getting pregnant, if that's what she wants.