57020 réponses à ce sujet

[berelinde]

motomotogirl wrote...

slashthedragon wrote...

What I would really love is for one of the writers to come out and tell us if Anders was meant to be a big old hypocrite and always wanted to give Fenris back to Danarius, or if it could be different in other playthroughs.

I've stopped taking Anders to "Alone."  It's just awful, and I'd rather pretend that he's no awful.  I've actually stopped taking him much of anywhere on my current playthrough; he has some really dick things to say to the others at times; then again, so does Fenris, and for some reason I can stomach his meanness better xD

I guess it depends on which one you like better. I can wave my hand and say "It's just Anders" in a tolerant voice pretty much whenever he says something inappropriate, but Fenris's issues just annoy the hell out of me. It's easy for me to forgive Anders because his mental roommate makes it impossible for him to even pretend to act normal. I find it hard to fogive Fenris because he doesn't have a good excuse for being a jerk. Yes, bad things happened in his past, but bad things happened to everyone else, too. He isn't even trying to get over it.

[CuriousArtemis]

berelinde wrote...

motomotogirl wrote...

slashthedragon wrote...

What I would really love is for one of the writers to come out and tell us if Anders was meant to be a big old hypocrite and always wanted to give Fenris back to Danarius, or if it could be different in other playthroughs.

I've stopped taking Anders to "Alone."  It's just awful, and I'd rather pretend that he's no awful.  I've actually stopped taking him much of anywhere on my current playthrough; he has some really dick things to say to the others at times; then again, so does Fenris, and for some reason I can stomach his meanness better xD

I guess it depends on which one you like better. I can wave my hand and say "It's just Anders" in a tolerant voice pretty much whenever he says something inappropriate, but Fenris's issues just annoy the hell out of me. It's easy for me to forgive Anders because his mental roommate makes it impossible for him to even pretend to act normal. I find it hard to fogive Fenris because he doesn't have a good excuse for being a jerk. Yes, bad things happened in his past, but bad things happened to everyone else, too. He isn't even trying to get over it.

Yep, totally   It really depends on who you're favorite is.  And also I find that tolerance and love for characters tends to alter with every playthrough; my Hawke has a different relationship with each of his companions each time I play, too.

On a whole, I just feel like Fenris is more consistently written than Anders; his meanness seems to directly stem from his past.  Anders is just mean to be mean sometimes, and I don't like that; I feel his character is so much better than that, and those mean times are just examples of bad writing.  The Anders in my head is a healer and a good-hearted man, so it doesn't quite mesh with how I WANT to see him.  But make no mistake, I've romanced him twice and he's my second favorite character in the whole franchise

[slashthedragon]

motomotogirl wrote...

slashthedragon wrote...

What I would really love is for one of the writers to come out and tell us if Anders was meant to be a big old hypocrite and always wanted to give Fenris back to Danarius, or if it could be different in other playthroughs.

I've stopped taking Anders to "Alone."  It's just awful, and I'd rather pretend that he's no awful.  I've actually stopped taking him much of anywhere on my current playthrough; he has some really dick things to say to the others at times; then again, so does Fenris, and for some reason I can stomach his meanness better xD

I'm still trying to figure out though--he only says that crappy line in "Alone" during certain playthroughs, right?
I REALLY wish the writers hadn't stuck such a line in there.  Because it is so hard to keep playthroughs seperate and now I keep thinking was an awful, hypocritical person Anders is.  And if you like him, then I judge you.  (j/k on that last line)
Fenris, for all his hatred/meaness, never even considers giving Anders & Merrill to the Templars and I believe that is in every playthrough.  Plus, being a slave always equals massive sympathy to me, so even if he is being a jerk, I can't hate him.

Modifié par slashthedragon, 13 avril 2012 - 05:18 .

[slashthedragon]

berelinde wrote...

motomotogirl wrote...

slashthedragon wrote...

What I would really love is for one of the writers to come out and tell us if Anders was meant to be a big old hypocrite and always wanted to give Fenris back to Danarius, or if it could be different in other playthroughs.

I've stopped taking Anders to "Alone."  It's just awful, and I'd rather pretend that he's no awful.  I've actually stopped taking him much of anywhere on my current playthrough; he has some really dick things to say to the others at times; then again, so does Fenris, and for some reason I can stomach his meanness better xD

I guess it depends on which one you like better. I can wave my hand and say "It's just Anders" in a tolerant voice pretty much whenever he says something inappropriate, but Fenris's issues just annoy the hell out of me. It's easy for me to forgive Anders because his mental roommate makes it impossible for him to even pretend to act normal. I find it hard to fogive Fenris because he doesn't have a good excuse for being a jerk. Yes, bad things happened in his past, but bad things happened to everyone else, too. He isn't even trying to get over it.

I'm also wondering why Justice would even let him think, let alone say, such a thing.
I just don't get it.  Writers, come clear this up!  Tell me Anders really isn't a jerk and that one day he and
Fenris have fantastic **** ***. <3

[cowoline]

slashthedragon wrote...

motomotogirl wrote...

slashthedragon wrote...

What I would really love is for one of the writers to come out and tell us if Anders was meant to be a big old hypocrite and always wanted to give Fenris back to Danarius, or if it could be different in other playthroughs.

I've stopped taking Anders to "Alone."  It's just awful, and I'd rather pretend that he's no awful.  I've actually stopped taking him much of anywhere on my current playthrough; he has some really dick things to say to the others at times; then again, so does Fenris, and for some reason I can stomach his meanness better xD

I'm still trying to figure out though--he only says that crappy line in "Alone" during certain playthroughs, right?
I REALLY wish the writers hadn't stuck such a line in there.  Because it is so hard to keep playthroughs seperate and now I keep thinking was an awful, hypocritical person Anders is.  And if you like him, then I judge you.  (j/k on that last line)
Fenris, for all his hatred/meaness, never even considers giving Anders & Merrill to the Templars and I believe that is in every playthrough.  Plus, being a slave always equals massive sympathy to me, so even if he is being a jerk, I can't hate him.

In my world that just HAS to be mistake. The thing that drives Anders is Justice. For Anders 50% of him, seeking Justice is the intere reason for his existance.

When you go to the alienaege: The elves should stand with us! They have suffered to.

Awakening Dalish camp: Justice gets a conversation where he feels REALLY bad for the elves.

In one of the banters Anders actually asks Fenris about his feelings when he was a slave. And here it always seemed to me that Anders really sypathised with what Fenris has gone through.

The only thing that Anders hates almost as much as Templars are bloodmages and demons, so why help/support Danarius?

This makes absolutely no sense what so ever. Anders is paranoid, grumpy and vengefull, but he is not an evil, insane tevinter magister.

I never trigger that line during Alone, because i am always Fenris' best buddy or lover. So in my games i pretend Anders would never say that.

Please Bioware make that evil fake Anders dissapear:wizard:

[slashthedragon]

cowoline wrote...

In my world that just HAS to be mistake. The thing that drives Anders is Justice. For Anders 50% of him, seeking Justice is the intere reason for his existance.

When you go to the alienaege: The elves should stand with us! They have suffered to.

Awakening Dalish camp: Justice gets a conversation where he feels REALLY bad for the elves.

In one of the banters Anders actually asks Fenris about his feelings when he was a slave. And here it always seemed to me that Anders really sypathised with what Fenris has gone through.

The only thing that Anders hates almost as much as Templars are bloodmages and demons, so why help/support Danarius?

This makes absolutely no sense what so ever. Anders is paranoid, grumpy and vengefull, but he is not an evil, insane tevinter magister.

I never trigger that line during Alone, because i am always Fenris' best buddy or lover. So in my games i pretend Anders would never say that.

Please Bioware make that evil fake Anders dissapear:wizard:

hehehe I agree, I reject their Anders and substitute my own.
The *only* way I could see him saying that, and even then it's a bit of a stretch, is if you play Hawke as 'evil' and Hawke agrees to give Fenris back, then that Anders is kissing up to Hawke by agreeing with.
However, I've read lots of great fanfic where Hawke tries to give Fenris back and Anders objects <3

[Always Alice]

berelinde wrote...
I guess it depends on which one you like better. I can wave my hand and say "It's just Anders" in a tolerant voice pretty much whenever he says something inappropriate, but Fenris's issues just annoy the hell out of me. It's easy for me to forgive Anders because his mental roommate makes it impossible for him to even pretend to act normal. I find it hard to fogive Fenris because he doesn't have a good excuse for being a jerk. Yes, bad things happened in his past, but bad things happened to everyone else, too. He isn't even trying to get over it.

Lol because Anders is totally trying to get over his past, right? I think Fenris enduring a life of oppression under the rule of the magisters gives him just as much of an "excuse" as Anders.

slashthedragon wrote...
I'm also wondering why Justice would even let him think, let alone say, such a thing

In Awakening, the conversations Anders has with Justice reveal that a spirit can become twisted due to desires. After merging with Anders, Justice is affected by what Anders is feeling. The once-objective view of justice becomes entirely subjective; whatever Anders thinks justice is, the spirit agrees. This explains the situation with Ella: As we can see throughout the game, Anders has a “with-us-or-against-us” mentality.” When she freaked out, Justice became angry and possibly killed her, even though the act of killing an innocent is not justice. Anders hates Fenris because of his opposing views, so it stands to reason that he would view selling someone who supports what amounts to in his mind as slavery as justice, even though it’s a very unjust act.

But then you are meta gaming (I believe that is the term). You can't have knowledge of one playthrough and say a character feels *exactly* the same through other playthroughs. Someone pointed out that Anders says that when you play Hawke as a d*ck, which brings out the worst in the companions.
What I would really love is for one of the writers to come out and tell us if Anders was meant to be a big old hypocrite and always wanted to give Fenris back to Danarius, or if it could be different in other playthroughs.

Yes, Hawke can “bring out the worst” in his companions. But that means there’s something to bring out, right?

[Cantina]

I have to say that one line in the quest “Alone” I just over
look it and view it as a mistake on the writer’s part. Then again, quite a few
fans were not happy as to how Anders was written in DA2. I am not exactly
thrilled about it myself. Even to this day, when I play Awakening and then play
DA2, I have to tell myself they are the same Anders even though it certainly
seems like two different characters. Oh, it has nothing to do with the voice
actor change; it is the drastic change in personality. The whole Anders/Justice
merger felt like it was dumped into my lap like a cup of hot coffee. I just
wish they had done a better job of introducing the change instead of tossing
out a short story. I want to experience the event in game not read about it
afterwards.

As for Sebastian, during most of Act 2 I tolerated him and
just shook my head. When Act 3 rolled around and then he made mention of how he
wanted to turn over Anders to the Templars, I wanted to toss him into the
Waking Sea. Then he made out with the conversation of how he thought the Grand
Cleric was holy and wise, I just wanted to turn around and shove a lightning
bolt up his ass. So needless to say I am no longer tolerant of Sebastian and
would be happy to fed him to a dragon or the darkspawn, <shrugs>
whichever I’m not picky.

[slashthedragon]

Always Alice wrote...
Yes, Hawke can “bring out the worst” in his companions. But that means there’s something to bring out, right?

Yes and no.  I just can't see an aspect of one playthrough having bearing on other playthroughs.  I'm not sure if I'm explaining it well enough, but I don't feel that the acknowledgement of that line *has* to then be a permanent part of his character in every playthrough.  Like when I say bringing out the worst, perhaps Anders would never have thought that, but Hawke keeps making digs at Fenris in private and Anders, who has a thing for Hawke, starts agreeing with him/her and then repition becomes belief.

David Gaider, pop in here and help us out!  Please make it so I don't hate Anders!

[ladyofpayne]

[smallwhippet]

Nice!

[Cantina]

OK, so, I normal play my game as being friends/romancing Anders.
I decided to pull up some saves and mess around with his conversations.
Oh this went on for quite some time, did it mainly for curiosity and testing purposes.
At any rate, the result was confusion-it really was. I do not blame Anders for this at all,
since he is nothing but pixels and codes, I rather point the finger at the writers.

In Act 2, your first conversation after the Deep Roads is
pretty much the meat and potatoes of which direction you want to go with
Anders. He tells you not to peruse a relationship with him, yet if you agree
with him and break it off, he gets pissed and you gain rivalry points. Uh,
what?  He just said, bah!

And me being a tad slow it just hit me this line he says
does not make sense either. “I don’t care; I would drown us in blood to keep
you safe.” How is drowning someone in blood keeping them safe?!

After doing a lot of messing around with his conversations I
think I face palmed more than a person should-gosh the writing was atrocious.

Modifié par Cantina, 14 avril 2012 - 04:10 .

[Archedes]

It might be easier to forgive Fenris for his bitterness because he is, at his core, a generally grumpy character, so any instances of that could be seen as "Fenris being Fenris". Whereas Anders is not generally like that, so it seems more glaring when he snaps at someone. I mean, in the beginning, Anders's dialogue with Merrill seems to be him genuinely trying to help her, and then it just devolves into bitterness as the game progresses and Anders begins to suffer more because of his possession. Personally, I like both Fenris and Anders just fine; Anders just gets a bit more preference because he was a constant fixture in my Awakening party. c;

On another note, all of this discussion of companion conversations got me thinking:
One difference between DA2 and DA:O that I particularly like is how the companions interact. In DA:O, everyone got along well for the most part--even though Alistair and Morrigan were constantly butting heads, I never really got the impression that they would actually turn on each other if given the chance (my example would be the Darkspawn Chronicles DLC because even without the Warden, Morrigan and Alistair still travel together to fight the Archdemon IIRC). In DA2, it often feels like Hawke is the only thing keeping some of the companions from actively going after each other. It's an interesting contrast.

[slashthedragon]

Cantina wrote...



OK, so, I normal play my game as being friends/romancing Anders.
I decided to pull up some saves and mess around with his conversations.
Oh this went on for quite some time, did it mainly for curiosity and testing purposes.
At any rate, the result was confusion-it really was. I do not blame Anders for this at all,
since he is nothing but pixels and codes, I rather point the finger at the writers.

In Act 2, your first conversation after the Deep Roads is
pretty much the meat and potatoes of which direction you want to go with
Anders. He tells you not to peruse a relationship with him, yet if you agree
with him and break it off, he gets pissed and you gain rivalry points. Uh,
what?  He just said, bah!

And me being a tad slow it just hit me this line he says
does not make sense either. “I don’t care; I would drown us in blood to keep
you safe.” How is drowning someone in blood keeping them safe?!

After doing a lot of messing around with his conversations I
think I face palmed more than a person should-gosh the writing was atrocious.

Yea, Anders didn't make sense a lot of the time.  Some people say it is because he
is slowly going crazy, but I don't agree.  Like you mentioned above, his romance is
very weird, because if you like him but don't LIKE him, he gets into a snit.

[gaurdian9sunshine]

ladyofpayne wrote...

So cute!

[Cantina]

slashthedragon wrote...

Cantina wrote...



OK, so, I normal play my game as being friends/romancing Anders.
I decided to pull up some saves and mess around with his conversations.
Oh this went on for quite some time, did it mainly for curiosity and testing purposes.
At any rate, the result was confusion-it really was. I do not blame Anders for this at all,
since he is nothing but pixels and codes, I rather point the finger at the writers.

In Act 2, your first conversation after the Deep Roads is
pretty much the meat and potatoes of which direction you want to go with
Anders. He tells you not to peruse a relationship with him, yet if you agree
with him and break it off, he gets pissed and you gain rivalry points. Uh,
what?  He just said, bah!

And me being a tad slow it just hit me this line he says
does not make sense either. “I don’t care; I would drown us in blood to keep
you safe.” How is drowning someone in blood keeping them safe?!

After doing a lot of messing around with his conversations I
think I face palmed more than a person should-gosh the writing was atrocious.

Yea, Anders didn't make sense a lot of the time.  Some people say it is because he
is slowly going crazy, but I don't agree.  Like you mentioned above, his romance is
very weird, because if you like him but don't LIKE him, he gets into a snit.

Yeah I am in the same boat you are hun. I think people using
the line “Oh he is just going crazy” is a means to give meaning as to why he
saying those things; grasping at straws in my opinion trying to seek a reason.

I think the answer is simple: the writing just stunk. Oh don’t
get me wrong there were some bits that were really good. IF (and I do mean a
BIG IF here) they were trying to get him coming off crazy it would still come
off as not knowing how to project that aspect properly in the game dialogue.

Oh well, cannot change what is already in the game. Just
irks me that the Anders romance was not what I was expecting and felt
completely ripped off. <shakes head>

[slashthedragon]

Cantina wrote...

Yeah I am in the same boat you are hun. I think people using
the line “Oh he is just going crazy” is a means to give meaning as to why he
saying those things; grasping at straws in my opinion trying to seek a reason.

I think the answer is simple: the writing just stunk. Oh don’t
get me wrong there were some bits that were really good. IF (and I do mean a
BIG IF here) they were trying to get him coming off crazy it would still come
off as not knowing how to project that aspect properly in the game dialogue.

Oh well, cannot change what is already in the game. Just
irks me that the Anders romance was not what I was expecting and felt
completely ripped off. <shakes head>

*hugs*
I just read fan fiction to make it all better.
It will p*ss me off though if he comes back in 3, even as a cameo, because
of the uneven writing

[CuriousArtemis]

Hmmm, I have to disagree with you guys; I quite liked the Anders romance (wish there were more, though...). I think the writing was lovely

[hobbit of the shire]

Just ran across Lady Vasilia's comment in the Urn of Sacred Ashes quest:

"I am justice. I am vengeance. Blood can only be repaid in blood."

I immediately thought of Anders! I wonder if that little sentence led to the whole Anders/Justice thing.

[Cantina]

slashthedragon wrote...

Cantina wrote...

Yeah I am in the same boat you are hun. I think people using
the line “Oh he is just going crazy” is a means to give meaning as to why he
saying those things; grasping at straws in my opinion trying to seek a reason.

I think the answer is simple: the writing just stunk. Oh don’t
get me wrong there were some bits that were really good. IF (and I do mean a
BIG IF here) they were trying to get him coming off crazy it would still come
off as not knowing how to project that aspect properly in the game dialogue.

Oh well, cannot change what is already in the game. Just
irks me that the Anders romance was not what I was expecting and felt
completely ripped off. <shakes head>

*hugs*
I just read fan fiction to make it all better.
It will p*ss me off though if he comes back in 3, even as a cameo, because
of the uneven writing

I have a gut feeling hun depending on your options in DA2, he'll make a cameo apperance. He was an important part of the start of the mage rebellion. IF he does not make a cameo apperance, I will be VERY surprised.

[cowoline]

slashthedragon wrote...

*hugs*
I just read fan fiction to make it all better.
It will p*ss me off though if he comes back in 3, even as a cameo, because
of the uneven writing

I actually think that the romance parts where the better parts of the writing. It was the only time where it seemed like you where talking to Anders more than Justice. There just wasn't enough.

I hope that we will see him as a cameo (unless you killed him ofc.). It would be as dissapointing as if Alistair didn't show up in DAII, to me at least.

[Dwarva]

How old is Anders meant to be? Is there any indication through dialogue etc?

[esper]

Staarbux wrote...

How old is Anders meant to be? Is there any indication through dialogue etc?

No, indication whatsoever. For one reason I am setting him to 28 in act 1. 

[slashthedragon]

Fedora! (pic is large so the link is:)

29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2gcokXUUK1rqmwa4o1_1280.png

(It was posted anon to a meme but if artist is ever revealed I'll amend this
post to include him/her)

<3

[Dwarva]

esper wrote...

Staarbux wrote...

How old is Anders meant to be? Is there any indication through dialogue etc?

No, indication whatsoever. For one reason I am setting him to 28 in act 1. 

Sounds about what I was thinking. Thanks.