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[Renmiri1]

PS: The "Thank you Love" was enough for my Hawke. I never saw the attack as a serious attempt on Hawke's life. To me it was more Justice trying to get some help for Anders.. Even if it meant Anders had to be slapped around a bit  You know, like you slap someone who is flipping out ?

Modifié par Renmiri1, 12 septembre 2012 - 09:12 .

[Enkidu]

Blimey, the one day I'm really busy is the day the thread suddenly springs to life XDD

I have mixed feelings about the "Thank you, love" part. I understand why it was done that way and am grateful that it's there at all, but... The one Hawke I have who wouldn't be content just standing there, picking his nose, while Anders dusts himself off after confrontation is the one romancing him! I know the game can't actually know if Hawke is a touchy-feely fussbag, but it still bothers me a little. But, again, having the romance acknowledged at all is already good enough.
And man, that "rude" Hawke line is the best out of all three. Baw. Al least I can enjoy this "witty" line: "Ooh, baby. Tell me more". You so charming, snrakyHawke.

And what’s that about more MotA dialogue? I was sure I heard all the banters, but it seems I missed that. Setting course for No-Tallis-Town next playthrough.

[Renmiri1]

Silly Anders!

If Hawke was concerned about any of that he/ she would never had hooked up with Anders. Warden taint + spirit possession + renegade mage doesn't strike me as a "live happily ever after" partner. Hawke gets together with Anders knowing it is going to be a limited (but intense ^^ ) time.

[berelinde]

MrFlipFlops wrote...

And what’s that about more MotA dialogue? I was sure I heard all the banters, but it seems I missed that. Setting course for No-Tallis-Town next playthrough.

Seriously, that's my biggest complaint about the MotA dialogue: it ignores existing relationships in order to focus on Tallis. I'm not interested in Tallis. I want to hear more banters from the existing companions. I loved to hear Anders and Isabela interacting on their quest to save Hawke. I sincerely wish they had succeeded. I liked it because it showed Anders's analytical personality contrasted with Isabela's more spontaneous attitude. Despite the similarities between Awakening Anders and Isabela, the difference was there, but MotA really brought it front and center. I'm resentful that the unhealthy concentration on Tallis prevented us from delving deeper ino the personalities of our existing companions.

Anyway, I'm playing through DA2 one more time, with a sarcastic Hawke, for the first time ever. I'm also attempting a parallel playthrough with aggressive Hawke, but I already hate her with a passion, so I doubt I'll be able to finish.

Who here romances Anders with aggressive!Hawke?

[Alessa]

berelinde wrote...

Who here romances Anders with aggressive!Hawke?

I did it once... but it was heartbreaking...

[Renmiri1]

I still have to do Aggressive Hawke, but Sarcastic Hawke is awesome ^^ Are you MageHawke ? I love Sarcastic Hawke x Carver

[CuriousArtemis]

berelinde wrote...

I loved to hear Anders and Isabela interacting on their quest to save Hawke. I sincerely wish they had succeeded. I liked it because it showed Anders's analytical personality contrasted with Isabela's more spontaneous attitude. Despite the similarities between Awakening Anders and Isabela, the difference was there, but MotA really brought it front and center. I'm resentful that the unhealthy concentration on Tallis prevented us from delving deeper ino the personalities of our existing companions.

Wow. That was so totally the worst thing about that DLC. I was so ticked off that I had to leave the two companions behind, and when they finally showed up to rescue Hawke (Awww! ) I got sooooo excited ... only to have stupid Tallis steal the show AGAIN. I cannot even imagine who would okay such a thing in the development process. Especially when they KNOW how much we love the LI thing. "Okay guys, I have idea. Suppose the LI almost comes to the rescue. But Tallis butts in and steals the show instead."  "Yeah, awesome, let's go with that!"

All of us: 

[Alessa]

Renmiri1 wrote...

I still have to do Aggressive Hawke, but Sarcastic Hawke is awesome ^^ Are you MageHawke ? I love Sarcastic Hawke x Carver

I did it with a RogueHawke. But it really killed me to hurt him that way. With aggressive Hawke he is so.....lost.

You can downright watch him lose the struggle against Justice/Vengeance....bit by bit.

Modifié par Alessa-00, 15 septembre 2012 - 05:35 .

[berelinde]

motomotogirl wrote...
 "Okay guys, I have idea. Suppose the LI almost comes to the rescue. But Tallis butts in and steals the show instead."  "Yeah, awesome, let's go with that!"

All of us: 

OK, in fairness, I suppose they were lampshading the DA:O scene where 2 player-chose companions rescue the Warden after being captured by Ser Cauthrien, but it was poorly done. Making the protagonist look like a fool is bad. Making the protagonist *and* all his/her friends look like fools is worse.

Seriously, that was the moment that sealed Tallis's fate as a Sue in my book. Give the non-DLC companions a chance to show off, why don't you?

[berelinde]

Alessa-00 wrote...

Renmiri1 wrote...

I still have to do Aggressive Hawke, but Sarcastic Hawke is awesome ^^ Are you MageHawke ? I love Sarcastic Hawke x Carver

I did it with a RogueHawke. But it really killed me to hurt him that way. With aggressive Hawke he is so.....lost.

You can downright watch him lose the struggle against Justice/Vengeance....bit by bit.

I'm always Mage!Hawke. I always have Carver. I love Carver to little resentful pieces. He's just so real, and so awesome, and so infinitely huggable. I like to think that in the epilogue, Hawke gives Carver a great big bro-hug, but I'll save that for headcanon.

I always try to build up Carver. I don't necessarily spare him the barbs, but I tell myself that I'm saying it for his own good. IRL, I've got siblings, and I know that there are times when apparent hostility disguises a deep and abiding love. And I completely understand Carver's attitude that boon or bust, family is family. You do what you must.

But with aggressive Hawke, I'm deliberately setting her up to rival Anders. I've done it before and hated it,so I'm not anticipating joy on that run. I'm still trying to come up with a Hawke that can romance Fenris (and loathing them), but I'm trying really hard to understand the appeal. So far, all that has happened is that I hate Hawke in addition to disliking Fenris, but I'm hoping that will change at some point.  I find it oddly curious that I have devoted more Hawkes to finding a reason to romance Fenris than I have to romancing Anders (which seems to come naturally), but it is what it is. The important thing is that I keep trying... or so I tell myself.

[BevH]

I have to agree that Tallis is the most annoying thing about MotA. And I also agree that her "rescue" is totally off. I've done it with my rogue Hawke who had her lockpicking skills well above Tallis. And yet... Hawke couldn't pick the lock to the cell, but Tallis could?!? Tallis couldn't pick the lock on a simple chest, but she could open that lock? I've done this DLC a few times now, but I finally ditched her on the last one. You do miss a lot of banter if she's with you. The best one being the one between Anders and Fenris after Anders fantasy rescue. *grins*

[NRieh]

Ah. Spoilers. A lot of MotA spoilers! 8P And I did not even start it yet. Lurking away untill I do so. I thnk i'll do it tonight, if I have time. But I got the basic idea that I'll deal with another Liara-syndrom case. I do not like forced companions. So - I'll see what I can do about it.

As for personality - I already mentioned that my first Hawke was sarcastic, but current one keeps nice. And both time I did not model personaliuty on purpose, but picked answeres I like.. And wierdest thing - I got Fenris to full friendship while always supporting mages and having him all the way around. And first time he was rival with me. Probably, they changed something with patch - I don't know.

I've heared that Carver is written nice, but my sibling is Bethany, and I think she's a bit plain. And also an annoying headcanon impression - she had some intentinos for Anders at the beginning(hehe, sorry li'l sista). Legacy "fixed" her, though. They did make her deeper and more alive.

[formaristarry]

Hmm I'm doing my first ever aggressive Hawke playthrough right now and friendmancing Anders. I'm aggressive with everyone but him though I do pick some red options with him and I'm liking how it makes the relationship seem like he has strong support.

Red Hawke is becoming my fave, alot of the things said make the most sense for the situation or make Hawke seem more aware of what is going on. I've found that in alot of cases the red options are Hawke being straightforward and not just unnecessarily rude like I expected.

I like Hawke's responses better in the banter or when they say stuff on their own too. Like in Legacy, after Anders says, "You should be with someone else..." she's all "Not a chance!"

I also got a scene I hadn't before when meeting Merrill. Hawke says "We don't have time to chatter." and Anders apologizes for her with something like, "I'm Anders. Don't mind her, I wish I could say this was an off day but she's always like this." Bahahaha

But as far as being all red all the time with him, I realized I couldn't do it with the scene after the Chantry when he explains about Justice, Hawke said "I just need the maps not a personal diatribe." and that makes Anders say, "I understand not wanting someone like me around." when joining as a companion. Oh his face, he looked so sad and so I reloaded, and that's how the aggressive Hawke who's only sweet to Anders playthrough started and I don't regret it, it's working wonderfully.

[LobselVith8]

MrFlipFlops wrote...
Now that we mention religion and the Chantry... I could never pin down Anders’ stance on it all. He seems to believe in Andraste and the Maker all right, but is very dismissive of Sebastian, stating that the Maker left and doesn’t care for his creations any longer, going so far as to say that He will never return. Is it just because the search for the Maker’s return is a very Chantry thing, therefore earning no points with Anders or does he simply believe that an all-powerful being that created all things really does exist, but is no longer and never will be around? Does he ever voice an opinion on any of the other religions in Thedas (Old Gods, Creators)?

Anders seems to be religiously Andrastian, given his arguments with Merrill about how spirits and demons are the "Children of the Maker," how demons turned their back on the Maker and embody different sins, and his difficulty with her having different religious views that contradict Andrastian doctrine. Anders also voices how he agrees with the Chantry's version of the Magisters and the First Blight in "A Tevinter Amulet." The main contention between Anders and mainstream Andrastian faith is his view on mages, but he's still a firm believer in the Maker and most Chantry doctrine. Anders even invokes the Maker's name at the Gallows (if you spare him) because he thinks the Maker might show favor to their cause.

[Renmiri1]

On Legacy Anders flat out denies the Chantry's version of events about the first blight. During the game he is less direct but I get the impression he doesn't buy it. Although I agree, he does seem to believe or at least accept Andraste and the Maker.

@Nrieh - You just HAVE TO get a playthrough as mage hawke and meet Carver! He is soo much better than Bethany! Warden Carver is awesome 

@berelinde - Ofc brohug happens! That is not headcanon that is just logic :D:D

Modifié par Renmiri1, 15 septembre 2012 - 03:49 .

[NRieh]

On Legacy Anders flat out denies the Chantry's version of events about the first blight

But when you pick up amulet - he does agree that it has pre-blight symbols on it, which makes Chantry version very likely true. He says he need to study things deeper, and to me it sounded like he changed his mind about that part of Chantry writings. And understood that it's not each time when someone sais "mages did big sh!t" their only purpose - to oppress and blacken mages.

Though, afaik that part of Legacy does contradict some original game Anders content, and it was even mentioned in wiki.

@Nrieh - You just HAVE TO get a playthrough as mage hawke and meet Carver! He is soo much better than Bethany! Warden Carver is awesome

Don't know if I can do it. I rarely replay anything other than canon, and if I do - I don't change things much. And MyHawke is not mage.

[Amirit]

Nrieh wrote...
Don't know if I can do it. I rarely replay anything other than canon, and if I do - I don't change things much. And MyHawke is not mage.

Just try it, don't even play to the end. Better as a male Hawke - it does look like canon story, and I agree you HAVE to see how rediculos it looks like

Modifié par Amirit, 15 septembre 2012 - 06:07 .

[LobselVith8]

Renmiri1 wrote...

On Legacy Anders flat out denies the Chantry's version of events about the first blight.

While in "Tevinter Chantry Amulet," Anders says: "They did invade the Black City in their hubris and unleash darkspawn on us all."

Renmiri1 wrote...

During the game he is less direct but I get the impression he doesn't buy it. Although I agree, he does seem to believe or at least accept Andraste and the Maker.

I don't share that impression. Anders only seems to disagree about mages, which is why he gets into some arguments with Sebastian over the treatment of mages (as he views the Chantry controlled Circles slavery) and Grand Cleric Elthina, but he doesn't seem to doubt the religious teachings of the Chantry. Anders argues with Merrill over her religious views, after all; he takes it as gospel that spirits and demons are "Children of the Maker." These character moments don't seem to gel with how Anders is written in Legacy.

[Amirit]

Actually, in Tevinter Amulet he talks highly about "Black Chantry" and does not look like a devoted Andrastian.
http://www.youtube.com/results?

Nor does he in banter with Fenris about suicide.

Modifié par Amirit, 15 septembre 2012 - 10:20 .

[LobselVith8]

Amirit wrote...

Actually, in Tevinter Amulet he talks highly about "Black Chantry" and does not look like a devoted Andrastian. Nor does he in banter with Fenris about suicide.

I'm addressing Anders' religious views. He's religiously Andrastian in the same way Leliana is, except they have differing views on certain issues from what the Chantry preaches.

In "Tevinter Chantry Amulet," Anders says that the Tevinter Magisters created the darkspawn (which is the same thing the Andrastian Chantry claims). He also argues that elves in the Kirkwall Alienage should fight with the mages for their rights, and he voices to Sebastian that all people deserve equality in Thedas: "It's a larger principle: the freedom every man, woman, and child born in Thedas have as a natural right."

[NRieh]

While in "Tevinter Chantry Amulet," Anders says: "They did invade the Black City in their hubris and unleash darkspawn on us all."

A thought - Legacy is supposed to take place before "Tervinter Chantry Amulet" (which is from Fenris mission in chapter 2 - Slave caverns afair).

Then it makes perfect sense - in Legacy he's sure that mages are just blamed by Chantry, at the end of Legacy he has some evidence and reasons to hesitate and study more and then - he talks about Tervinter amulet. It fixes the inconsistency, though I doubt that it was an intention to build his story that way. More like writing plot glitch. Still, if you try to match his "Legacy" personality - it's more like 1-2 to me. He has some issues, but is not depressed and obessed as much as in 3. So, probably, I'm more or less right about it.

And now i'm going to start MotA. Wish me luck and hold from spoilers for some more time, if you please (or mark those so that I'll skip reading).

[Amirit]

LobselVith8 wrote...
I'm addressing Anders' religious views. He's religiously Andrastian in the same way Leliana is, except they have differing views on certain issues from what the Chantry preaches.

If you mean he does believe in Maker - yes, he does. But if you are trying to say he is as devoted as Leliana or Sebastian then point , please, where it was indicated. Because even in "Amulet" dialog I do not hear it (actually, I can not get that classical Chantry explanation either, what option is it under?)

Nrieh  expecting you back very soon with a deap hatred tovard Tallis Thoug, who knows, you might like her despite everything

Modifié par Amirit, 15 septembre 2012 - 10:28 .

[berelinde]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Amirit wrote...

Actually, in Tevinter Amulet he talks highly about "Black Chantry" and does not look like a devoted Andrastian. Nor does he in banter with Fenris about suicide.

I'm addressing Anders' religious views. He's religiously Andrastian in the same way Leliana is, except they have differing views on certain issues from what the Chantry preaches.

If, by this, you mean that they are completely different, you are probably right.

Anders does seem to believe in the Maker and Andraste, but you would be hard pressed to find two characters with more divergent views on the role of the Chantry in Thedas.

[NRieh]

Nrieh expecting you back very soon with a deap hatred tovard Tallis Thoug, who knows, you might like her despite everything

I could not end it yesterday night...or I'd better say today morning It was 4.am when I solved buttons and reached dungeons, and I thought I need to go to bed.

Anders and Fenris almost-saved-me. "Rescue mission" chat was awesome. 8P Then I saved game and turned off laptop.

To be honest, so far I enjoy MotA better than Legacy. Plotwise Legacy may be bigger and deeper (Malcolm, Anders, Thethras - all but Big Bad Evil).

But MotA gameplay is designed better. Less annoying filler combats, some cool chats and diplomacy, a small stealth action ("splinter cell" tribute, lolz), little puzzles. I liked most of banters during the Hunt, I did not feel that Tallis took too much priority. Anders seemed to enjoy the trip too - temporary change of place did good to him. All done with good share of humor, but still - not a total "folulz".

I was afraid I may be annoyed by forced companion, but she's writtten not so bad, actually. Not oversexualized, smart and (surprize!).... does not try to get into Hawke's pants. 8P

I think I'd like to see DA3 designed this way. Less hack-n-slash, more talks, more banters, more smart and strategy gameplay and respecting ongoing romance.

[Amirit]

Nrieh wrote...
I was afraid I may be annoyed by forced companion, but she's writtten not so bad, actually. Not oversexualized, smart and (surprize!).... does not try to get into Hawke's pants. 8P

Really?! She is actively flirting with your Hawke since the moment you meet her. Not that I mind it ( jealousy scences for both Fenris and Anders are hilarious) but she does try to get into Hawkes pants

I think I'd like to see DA3 designed this way. Less hack-n-slash, more talks, more banters, more smart and strategy gameplay and respecting ongoing romance.

Wait till rescue then we talk hack-n-slash Though, the idea to have 2 ways to solve the quest (stealing or fighting) is brilliant! Love it a lot.
I would say banters involving the whole group was in Legacy too (and it's good and do hope they will keep it this way).

As for Tallis hatred it's mostly about enforced rules: like inability to kill her, inability to change her weapons, inconsistency between plot and actual gameplay (Tallis is supposed to be a Wonder-woman yet dies in every battle, can not pick a lock and so on), inability to argue about mages when she jokes about that subject with Anders who is your LI, etc.